Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: Carl on January 28, 2005, 12:37:26 pm
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does anybody have it? i'd like to see it and see how much of it we've actually accomplished with the SCP.
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I might *just* have a backup of the site somewhere... failing that I hope Inq does :)
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I was going to post this on the anniversary of the source release, but since it was brought up I may as well do it now. :)
http://web.archive.org/web/20010604122039/http://ross128.telefragged.com/fs3list.shtml
Between the SCP and the other hosted projects, a surprising amount of it has been done. :)
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Space stations (civilian, military, command bases, listening posts, recon sites, cargo depots, SOC headquarters etc…)
Civilian vessels (Personal ships, transport barges, freighters, luxury liners)
Play a mod.
Larger bombers that are around the size of a cruiser and heavily armed and armored but dead slow
Play Inferno.
Carriers (not Destroyers) dedicated to deploying fighters/bombers and then leaving the area of combat).
Play Inferno.
Missile boats (not bombers) that are dedicated to intercepting fighters and bombers from several KM away.
Play Inferno and fly a bomber outfitted with Snipers
"Super" ships, larger than the Sathanas, around the size of a small planet in fact, and capable of massive destruction.
We have the Gargant and life-sized planet models, but we haven't combind them.
Asteroid and small moon bases.
We have the Boadicea.
More varied weaponry including:
Cap-ship missiles, capable of massive devastation but slow and unmaneuverable, launched by cap-ships.
Play Inferno and TBP.
Guns that make use of ammunition (possibly gas?) but are powerful.
The new Maxim does this.
Area effect weapons, bombs that destroy fighters in 1Km radius etc…
Play Inferno.
A "Tesla Coil" that conducts between all ships in the area of effect, but harms friendly ships as well.
Hasn't been done, shouldn't be done.
A complete support for mods of all types, unlimited space in weapons and ship tables easier installation/use of mods by an in-game interface.
We have mod folders and unlimited weapon entries.
A more advanced Readme file for FRED3 and tootips etc…possible an animated "how to" on creating a mission.
Not done.
Personalized graphics for players fighter/fighter squadron, import graphics etc…
Texture replacement does this.
A better system for promotions based on score, and better use of weaponry and ship promotions.
Edit the rank table and use persistent variables.
Interactive terrain:
Black Holes
Not done, should never, ever, ever be done.
Wormholes
Hack the subspace effect.
Spatial Anomalies (see Star Trek)
Could probably be done with sexps.
Planets, Moons, Suns
We have planetary missions and gravity.
Red Giants, White Dwarfs
I would rather not be dragged into a star and incinerated.
Interactive nebula (fly in/out of them)
Not done.
Working Knossos (can be player activated)
Use sexps
More varied Nebula with "interference" similar to the EMP effect, fire, smoke, visually impairing dust, radar-disrupting etc…
Play a mod.
A more involving storyline where the player does not just save the galaxy alone, Full introduction of a squadron with pilots who have names etc.
Modders, are you listening?
Better AI on all skill levels; fix the AI that causes ships to crash into each other.
Not done. But at least they shoot at proper speed now.
All beams in FRED3 should be default "on".
There's a beam-free-all for all ships option.
More "dramatic" music similar to the credits score in FS2, like the music featured in FS. More action in the battle scores etc.
If you don't like it, replace it or play a mod.
800x600 support
Done, but buggy.
The option for player and his/her wingmen to dock in a cap-ship with fighterbay rather than jump out.
Use sexps.
A random background creator for FRED3, create random backgrounds, save previous backgrounds for loading later etc.
Not done.
Better cut-scenes with more action and less dialogue, the dialogue can be presented in mission to allow for more action in cutscenes.
Make your own.
Optional Newtonian physics, with a toggle to turn it on/off.
Impossible with FS engine.
The ability to fly in the atmosphere of planets, and to have mountains and other terrain on the planet that the player could fly around. (Some have said that this would dilute the game, and make it a bit "pathetic, and un-FreeSpace like".
Done.
[qupte]Being able to jump from system to system, or from one end of a system to another just by selecting it (in a similar menu to the comm
menu).[/quote]
Not done.
Exploring planets (see above)
One lie-sized Earth model: $0. One sexp: $0. Watching Earth blow up: Priceless.
A new engine, capable of supporting huge fleets of ships (think - 20+ Orion's as an idea) plus fighters and so on... All this with a minimum of speed loss.
HTL sort of does this.
Support for all the latest graphical features including D3D, OGL, 3DFX, S4 and use of features such as motion blur on the Voodoo 5 and T&l on the GeForce.
Done.
An easy to use ship viewer, allowing the customization/creation of ships (possibly select parts and "stick" them all together to make the ship?)
Not done. Doesn't appal to me.
The ability to fly all the fighters/bombers in Freespace and Freespace2 in Freespace3.
Mod them in.
The ability to fly Shivan craft. Possibly multiplayer only, unless relevant to the story?
Play DreadFul Shivans or wait for Hidden Terror.
Full geo-mod support for ships, so subsystems can be blown of, decal use on ships etc… so lasers leave scorch marks and so on. Ships can be sliced in half.
No geo-mod, but we do have impact decals. Why was geo-mod never used except in Red Faction?
Improved explosion graphics with varying colors. Different shockwaves with different colors/speeds/effects (EMP?)
Done.
Ships break up and drift, exposing decks to open space. Similar to Klingon Academy.
Make a hi-poly model with hi-poly debris.
Better anti-fighter beams that sweeps after craft and doesn't "pulse" on and off.
Not done. AAAf is plenty powerful as it is.
The ability to walk around the cap-ship you are posted on. And to get to a fighter/escape pod in the event of an attack etc...
This is not an FPS.
Add a "camera" which zooms in toward the players ship(s) in the docking bay whilst the mission loads...
Use a cutscene?
A fully fledged cockpit with toggle, and working "dials" etc...
Not done; most people don't want it anyway.
A fighter mounted flak cannon/beam cannon.
Done.
A working fighter bay - if destroyed, the cap-ship cannot launch more fighters/escape pods etc..
Not done.
A cloaking device for ships, so they disappear from radar and from view.
Done.
A "subspace trap" similar to the Interdictor cruiser in Star Wars.
Use sexps.
More varied transmissions from wingmen, i.e. "I've lost rear shields, but I can handle it" etc.
Not done, would probably break things.
Having the same length video transmission as the message.
Done, I think.
Optional "female" gender where "sir" is replaced with "ma'am" etc.
Not done.
Have a real fighter count for large ships. The Sathanas does NOT have two wings of Basilisks only.
It will launch what I WANT it to launch! POWER TO THE FREDDERS!
FS3 should have a branching mission style, where you take different missions depending on your performance in the last one instead of the
mission contents just changing slightly. In doing this you could conceivably complete the game a number of times before you got to fly every single mission & you would have different endings depending on what happened - just like Colony Wars: Vengeance where you had about 6 different endings depending on your skill, but only 2 true 'final' endings.
Play a mod.
Ability to fly cap ships (might loose the "essence" of Freespace?)
Flying a cap sucks.
Skirmish mode, where you get to fly non-linear missions in war. (Similar to WC5's flight simulator?)
FRED it.
Possibility to destroy a fighter/bomber by riddling holes in the cockpit creating a depressurisation. (wouldn't effect Shivans)
Not done.
Compatibility of missiles to ships more realistic i.e.: Helios does not use the same sized launch hole as a Hornet...
Not done, not possible.
Autopilot possibility and capability of manning the bomber's turret. *Can give orders to turret and send 'recommendations' to a Capital ship instead of just depart.
Possibility to be destroyed while entering subspace and not be transparent.
Fighters never order caps in a navy. There is a sexp to give AI control of your ship. The turret thing hasn't been done. I'm not sure about the subspace thing.
When entering planet surface, under eventual gravitational pull, you burn up in the atmosphere.
I doubt that FS ships would have any trouble with reentry heat. They fling low-yield nuclear missiles at each other!
The repair subsystem is a small bay that can house two to three small ships at a time or one large, with small zero-g trained hull repairmen. Weapons and shields are recharged as well (in other words, literally a pit stop).
Sounds too fanciful to do.
Possibility to set an enemy or allied ship partially on fire with thrusters (afterburner only) and temporarily blind them.
Metal doesn't catch fire easily and shields don't burn.
Beam weapons used against asteroids.
Not done.
Stealth missions relying on the player not to make any noise, with sound detector on main HUD.
FRED it.
Spacefaring biological organisms (see - Star Trek, it's full of them).
Stupid idea. No biological organism would dare get into space, let alone attack a fighter. Ejecting pilots might be neat, though.
A built in weapon "modder" for FRED3, you input weapon color/length/radius/speed/power/energy etc. and the program creates a weapons.tbl with the weapon added to it.
Why not write it into the table?
An improved tech room that actually lists the tech of each ship. Allowing players to check it to see ship length/weapon compatibility/weapon stats etc.
Write the stats into the table.
Controllable strategic cannon on the side of some fighters, loaded with disrupter to EMP type cannons. Mouse controlled but when flight controls are used (arrows...) Guns switch to normal in-flight cannons. Only limited view infront. Cannon preferably under a hatch. (May look like Mechwarrior but no Torso :)
Sounds dumb.
The repair bay cannot repair hull 100%, between 82 and 94 maximum, but sometimes can be easier to die when taking damage to the hull, or even have the hull suddenly break apart at a violent hit and you die.
Support ships can repair hull up to an amount specified in the mission settings.
Movies same and maybe better quality than FreeSpace 1, and possibly in-flight ones that pause the game.
Make your own cutscenes. There might be a sexp for the movies.
[quotePraise, disperse and retreat options in Comm menu. Praise plays a random praise message to the most recent fighter kill.[/quote]
I don't see the point.
The Descent Network developer packs supplied on the CD.
Not SCP-related.
Subtitles during cutscenes as an option in several languages (French, German, Spanish, Italian, Russian and Greek for a few).
Not done.
[quote[A movie option or even replay utilities. Movie as in Descent and Descent 2 Demos.[/quote]
Not done.
Ultimate sound compatibility, options, Dolby surround etc. If possible, use higher quality music, or mp3 CD quality stuff. The music is better that way.
We have OGG music and EAX.
Flyby camera mode like in flight simulators.
Not done.
As you get higher in rank you will not only have the option to command cap ships but entire fleets and you decide where to attack next.
Admirals don't fly fighters.
Planetary assault missions... Cap Ships would have mass drivers.
Done. But the mass drivers should be beam cannons. MDs are not FreeSpace-ish and beam cannons do a lot more damage than B5 mass drivers.
Holding missions in which you have to keep control of planets and/or systems
FRED it.
Explanation of why the Shivans destroyed Capella
Play a mod, pick an explanation.
More special effects in nebula, such as vapor coming of ships wings, fire, gas, exploding gas, nebula/debris and more advanced lightning.
Not done.
[/quote]When a ship is hit by a beam, it should "slide" more. As seen in the FS2 movie when the Lucifer hits the Orion. [/quote]
Not done.
Turrets housed inside the ship (see this thread) Like Babylon5...
Use single-part turrets.
Cap. Ship shields where you hit a capital ship and the shield flashes. And the shield extends out so you need to punch a whole in the shield to actually hit the ship and damage it. This might not be practical in all cases, but would certainly be good. Note that there would be a shield generator sub-system and by destroying that you prevent the shield from re-generating...
We have surface shields.
*snip irrelevant info*
Ability to see how many attackers an enemy ship has by simply looking at the target window (bottom-left), not having to turn until it moves into sight. This is a feature I have missed ever since I finished FS1.
Not done.
Better macros and better hot key system.
This is beyond the scope of SCP.
Ability to lead a full escort of fighters, bombers, cargo ships, iv ships and capital ships.
No fighter pilot ever tells a cap what to do.
Voice communication enhancements, send data when speaking. Similar to the feature found in Roger Wilco, the software detects when you speak in the mike and the audio is sent automatically.
Not done.
A navigation system which gives the ship's direction in 3D. It should work with two 360-degree scales. One for vertical direction and one for horizontal. This feature would be great in missions where one has to rely on the targeting system, such as nebula missions. Especially the covert ops one where one has to use nav buoys to find a ship and rescue it. By obtaining the direction of a nav buoy, the missions would be much easier to to finish. As it is now, it is very difficult to determine how much the ship has turned in either direction. A system of this kind would be really useful. If there also could be a co-ordinate system with an advanced three-dimensional deep space map based on radar readings, I would be very happy. There are 3D maps in the Descent games so why not in FS?
We have 3D radar.
How about a player-controllable beam cannon on a bomber (Boanerges, anyone?) slung under the cockpit. The longer you hold the trigger down, the longer the beam stays on. Normal warm-up/down effects apply. For slash beams, have something like "point ship at 1st position of beam shot, click to set in memory. Press a 2nd time at a different part of the ship to set the 2nd beam target point. Press and hold to engage beam cannon." Max 15 seconds fire time.
Fighter beams.
A variety of countermeasures (cluster mines [a.k.a. a "drop-and-run" Infyrno or Piranha], seeker flares, and the regular chaff pods)
Not done.
Pre-flight loadout allowing you to change the Medusa/Ursa/Osiris turret weapons
Not done.
FRED3 supporting FS1/2 mission importing (this would be tricky, and possibly impossible)
You can convert FS1 missions to FS2.
[Optional] Capacity for task force command, inventory micromanagement, pilot assignments, etc. (for those privileged enough to reach the rank(s) of Commodore to Admiral)
This is not a strategy game. I think that the ranks above Captain should be removed.
Replayability! Ships.tbl to support more than 80 entries (for all you mod-ers out there). More options and operators in FRED3, and maybe a POF generator/editor thingy, perhaps?
It supports 150 now, and there are countless new features and sexps in FRED2_Open.
A random multiplayer scenario generator. Maybe it could also let you plug in a bunch of parameters and then it would go to work. Alot of RTS games have a similar feature, but those only apply to the actual environment, I'm talking about objectives too.
Not doable.
Multiple-lock missles. Like a Hornet or Tornado except each individual missle targets something different.
Not done.
The node holes (the holes into subspace which ships enter) deal damage to other ships that are too close.
Dumb idea.
The ability to see the pilot of other fighters, like in the FS intro where you see the pilot of the Apollo...
Done with the Herc, Perseus (where did that one go?), and Ezechiel.
More HUD details, for example, to have the ability to change the completely, so that it will show you where you need to fire exactly in order to cut of a certain peace of a vessel (cargodeck, weapons bay, etc').[/quote[
Not done.
A special weapon (or more) with a sole purpose to cut off pieces of a vessel.
Dumb idea.
The ability to actually send messages other than order, to write or pick them out of many none-orders messages.
Why?
Atmospheric missions, for example, strike on a sensor array, or rescuing VIPs from prison facility (located on planet, of course) or eliminating orbital defenses.
It is possible with FS2_Open. FRED it or play Venom's F-22 mod.
When targeting a turret, for example, a missile launcher, to have a HUD indicator tell you how many missiles and what type of missiles is there, or if targeting a beam cannon, the indicator will show when it is about to fire
Not done, caps shouldn't have limited ammo anyway.
The ability to further customize ships, to choose color of hull, engine type, target profile (depending on the ship's material).
Not doable.
A larger variety of messages.
Put them in with sexps.
FS3 on an online service more like the MSN Zone than PXO which should be called LAG [Um... right... -Thunder]
FS2NetD.
FRED 3 can hold more ships (about 200).
150 is all we can do.
More parts can be changed (like Starsiege).
Not doable.
[quote[More races.
Now possible. Make a species_defs.tbl and change the icons and sounds tables to match.
In-game Star Map.
Not necessary in FS.
News report (like Tachyon: The Fringe).
FRED it or play Raider Wars.
Different endings.
FRED it.
Grapping Claw and Tractor beams to grab objects.
Bad idea.
Critical hits.
Worse idea.
Biomaterials that can make bio-armor.
There needs to be a ban on bioarmor in sci-fi. It's stupid.
More ship and weapon description in Tech room.
Edit the tables.
Encyclopedia and personal bios section.
Not done, would break the UI.
Mines.
Done. Use sexps and tables.
Back to Sol and explore more systems.
Play Inferno or BlackWater Operations.
Have Shivans that jump out of transports, capital ships, etc. that attack fighters. [Like the secret movie on the ST CD...]
That was a fricking JOKE.
Ability to "eject" when you are about to blow up and pilot your escape pod around trying not to get hit.
Not dpne.
A beeter system for choosing the appearance of you pilot (e.g. choose from 10 hair types, choose from 10-face types etc).
Not doable.
Rapid-fire cannon on cap ships that fire 4+ times a second.
Play Inferno.
Possibility of finding (and using) Ancient technology...
Play Inferno.
Multiple Language supports (French, German).
Get a French or German copy of the game.
More realistic Damage to fighters/bombers etc. for instance, hit a fighters left engine and it begins to move slower and turn less sharply.
Dumb idea. No need to kick a fighter when it's down.
"Escort Missiles" similar to the Gunboys from D3, only these follow you around acting as mobile turrets. Useful for bombers...
Tables, models, and sexps.
Fly multiple campaigns at the same time.
Not done.
More powerful dumbfire missiles
Table it.
*snip non-SCP-related request*
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you know that list was made up in like 1999
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Some of the things in the list are in FS2_Retail.
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Woolie Wool, you didn't have to reply to every single suggestion. :wtf: Not only that, but several of the things you said "shouldn't be done" or "can't be done" are in fact done.
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Hey, I'm not always 100% up to the microsecond with SCP development.
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Done being a cynic? Good. Yes, a lot of those have been done, but they aren't done enough. Also, Inferno R1 is boring after the first way through. There needs to be atmospheric fighting(Descent 3 had the right idea, except for the mines), and remember how the Harbinger said 'planetary assault until now'? Come on... let's blow **** on the ground up. Also, if you read the New Jedi Order, the bio-based species called the Yuuzhan Vong got into space with living ships. Thing is, the exterior is made of a rocklike material. It works. Also, your comment about 'not possible on the FS engine.'... THAT'S THE POINT IN MAKING A NEW GAME. And you don't want black holes, but you say we could make wormholes? Idiot. Black holes would be awesome.
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Uh. Raider Wars has a ground assault mission.
As for black holes, I don't like being sucked into a black hole and crushed into a point. Besides, we'd have to simulate things like spaghettification, time dilation (at the event horizon, time stops, so an outside observer sees the victim frozen at the edge of the black hole for all eternity), etc. Black holes suck. Only an idiot or a suicidal person would fly near one.
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Originally posted by Ghost
Also, if you read the New Jedi Order, the bio-based species called the Yuuzhan Vong got into space with living ships. Thing is, the exterior is made of a rocklike material. It works. Also, your comment about 'not possible on the FS engine.'... THAT'S THE POINT IN MAKING A NEW GAME. And you don't want black holes, but you say we could make wormholes? Idiot. Black holes would be awesome. [/B]
So it works in a fictional enviorment, does that mean its anywhere near remotly logical? no, its a purely stupid idea, with the main probeblem being tempature in space.
Bio-organisim's in space is a ****ing brainbug.
Also, to all the "Command everything" suggestions, go play an RTS Freespace. Code one for all the pilots care.
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Black holes are pretty worthless as a part of a mission. Unless you're having to navigate around them, all you'd ever use them for is a background, which can already be done now. Just make a big black circle and stick it in stars.tbl and *poof*, black hole. If you got closer than the event horizon, even in Freespace, you're screwed no matter what Physics system you're using.
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All right, if people are going to flame, I'm going to close this. This is supposed to be a celebration of how far the SCP has come, not a flamewar between people who don't like each others' suggestions.
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Ace: key words being "fictional environment." What makes you think Freespace is real? And that's what the rocklike material is for, to protect organic tissue from the cold. Also, look at Hall Fight: the boarding party isn't wearing face masks. What's up with that? They're wearing breathers, so there's no oxygen. They're floating around, so it's zero g. But they came in from outer space, and there was no rush of atmosphere, so it would have to be FREEZING COLD. I'm under the impression that human faces are made of organic tissues.
Wool: where do I get Raider Wars? I'm new to the SCP, and I'm interested.
But for black holes, both for Strat and Wool: that's the idea. An area with a black hole is the only way out of a system, and some people **** up, and they go in. It'd be a cool effect, and you could use it, indirectly, as a weapon. Lead enemy fighters towards it, and then pull a loop, and they'd keep going forward, past the event horizon. Also, in multiplayer, since they don't give off light, they'd be like bigass landmines, except there'd only be one. You don't know where it is, and where the opening is. It'd be crazy.
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@Black Holes - they can't be properly coded without braking multi.
How on Earth would you make one player see the rest of the guys zipping around faster and faster while the rest of the players seeing this guy getting slower and slower?
It can't be done since we can't control time yet.
@Woolie
Even if you don't like a feature, some people do since it was a request.
There is more to SCP than Freespace of FS mods - you quoted one on several ocassions. SCP is a godsend for people who want to make a space shooter of their own.
As for the impossibles: don't try to tell what is unless you're a coder.
They do this for fun in their free time for free and we should be extremely humbled and gratious for them doing so.
@Ghost: they came in from their own transport after an airtight connection was made. They use gas mask since there may not be enough oxygene, but if the inside gas isn't toxic it doesn't matter what it is as long as the pressure is manageable for the human body.
You're right though - FS ships move in a ridiculous manner.
@Space based organisms - All cynics should check the sciecne journals more ofter.
Amino acids and several complex organic components were found in some nebulae.
I don't say yes, there are big space mushrooms for sure, but just saying "I never saw those therefore they just can't be" isn't any better than the pretentious/superstitious logic of the Medieval.
Life has managed to sucess in so extravagantly dangerous environments that were earlier though absolutly sterile that writting the possibility off seems a bit hurried.
@Goober and the SCP TEAM:
THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONTINOUS EFFORT TO MAKE THIS GREAT GAME EVEN BETTER, AND TURN IT INTO AN EXTREMELY POTENT DEVELOPMENT ENVIRONMENT FOR ANY SPACE SHOOTER.
WOOT AND HURRAY FOR THE SCP TEAM!!!
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I was thinking about what it would take to add a black hole/wormhole feature the other day.
Either one could be a good plot element, as anyone who knows SW will attest, it'd be nice for Yuuzhan Vong ships.
Black holes could also be used to add an interesting element to any mission. :D
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@planets and gravity:
we have gravity?
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YES! Damn! Thank you, WM! I can't believe I didn't think of that aspect for them... for those who don't know, one of the weapons/propulsion/self defense systems on Yuuzhan Vong ships is basically a small gravity well with the same force of a black hole. Cap-ships have more, fighters have one, mainly for propulsion.
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I wish we had gravity.
However, it might not be that hard to do, since it's globally applied to objects. You just modify an object's acceleration by an amount proportional to their distance to the black hole.
If a collision is detecte with a black hole, the ship blows up.
If you wanted to be really fancy, you could add some code to gradually turn ships towards the black hole.
Calculations could be kept manageable by 'culling' the effect after a given amount of meters.
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Gravity is one of the things I'm working on. :) TI requested it.
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You mean, for atmospheric missions?
How would you do that, I mean, a ship that goes forward shouldn't fall, etc. That's complicated, no?
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Well, one would imagine that there are things like 'repulsorlifts,' or whatever they called them in Star Wars. As evidenced in all 3 original SW films, spaceships can fly in the atmosphere, despite the strange, non-atmospheric looks. But I kinda liked the little picture that Setekh made.. of the 'atmospheric flight guide.' If you could implement that, that'd be cool, because the ships really aren't very aerodynamic.
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hehe...I was skimming the list and the multi-lock aspect missiles would be cool...seeing 10 or so of the little aspect-lock triangles find various targets...mmmm
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Originally posted by Nico
You mean, for atmospheric missions?
How would you do that, I mean, a ship that goes forward shouldn't fall, etc. That's complicated, no?
We'd need to add a lift factor for each fighter intended for atmospheric maneuvering, as well as a stall speed and lift thrusters. These entries would be under a section of a ship's table entry for atmospheric maneuvering. These atmospheric statistic would only be activated if both gravity and atmosphere are active in a mission environment. Lift thruster would be controled by using the slider functions. Now, you may want fighters that have no slide ability in space, to have vertical lift thrusters in an atosphere, so these would be special entries under the atmospheric control section.
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Implement an auto-slide feature, which would fire thrusters to keep a ship aloft as much as it could.
eg, you fly towards a planet and level off, miraculously at the exact height where the gravity is weak enough that your lower thrusters can keep the ship aloft. But you can't slide up, because your lower thrusters are at full capacity. you duck down a little lower, and your thrusters can no longer support the ship; you start to slowly fall. Once the ship is flipped so that it's ass points towards the planet, the main thrusters take over and the ship stops. You increase engine speed and the ship starts to pull away.
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MY god that site brings alot of memories back to me from the good old days. I thogut it was gone forever. The first site that i administrated.
A litle offtopic... :)
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Originally posted by Anaz
hehe...I was skimming the list and the multi-lock aspect missiles would be cool...seeing 10 or so of the little aspect-lock triangles find various targets...mmmm
Macross DYRL - yeah, that's one of my dreams too.
Lock on the a whole wing of fithers, order my squad to do as well, then release a storm of rockets at 'em.
Then reverse thrust to match speed and go toe to toe with gatling cannons.
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Originally posted by Flaser
Macross DYRL - yeah, that's one of my dreams too.
Lock on the a whole wing of fithers, order my squad to do as well, then release a storm of rockets at 'em.
Then reverse thrust to match speed and go toe to toe with gatling cannons.
Played Battlecry?
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Originally posted by Anaz
hehe...I was skimming the list and the multi-lock aspect missiles would be cool...seeing 10 or so of the little aspect-lock triangles find various targets...mmmm
Yes, that would be awesome, but how to select real target?
Unless we're using Hornets divided up to 8 single missle shots :S
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Ever played LOMAC? You switch onto long range / BVR mode and all radar targets show up on your HUD.
You have little box on your hud you can move with the button + HAT or buttons or button + stick/mouse if you don't have a HAT.
You move the box over the desired targets and press a key to lock them up.
The other alternative is let the comp lock up all the targets in its field of view up to a setable limit.
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A more involving storyline where the player does not just save the galaxy alone, Full introduction of a squadron with pilots who have names etc.
Modders, are you listening?
I'm working on it.
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Thank god for web archives, my backups on disk are long lost (actually, there is a CD around here somewhere, emphasis on somewhere).
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Originally posted by Ghost
Wool: where do I get Raider Wars? I'm new to the SCP, and I'm interested.
www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/babylon
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OK - I have a few quations to ask:
1. What happened to that cool cloacking effect?
2. Are there multiple type of fighter beams? I read that fighterbeams are just normal beams set to type 2, and htat warmup and warmdown don't work for them.
However, I made a fighterbeam and warmup and warmdown do work!?
@Flaser - there will NEVER be a purely organic race traveling hte stars (think Zerg). Why? Organic matter just can't stand space conditions, where temperature shifts are extreem, ration is often off the scale and not to mention that no organic craft could ever survive atmospheric re-entry.
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Originally posted by Woolie Wool
www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/babylon
Thanks.
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Originally posted by TrashMan
OK - I have a few quations to ask:
1. What happened to that cool cloacking effect?
2. Are there multiple type of fighter beams? I read that fighterbeams are just normal beams set to type 2, and htat warmup and warmdown don't work for them.
However, I made a fighterbeam and warmup and warmdown do work!?
@Flaser - there will NEVER be a purely organic race traveling hte stars (think Zerg). Why? Organic matter just can't stand space conditions, where temperature shifts are extreem, ration is often off the scale and not to mention that no organic craft could ever survive atmospheric re-entry.
The same was said about the Mariana trench, volcanoes, and hot vents on the bottom of the sea. Though we can agree to diagree and move on this isn't relevant at all to SCP or the Ross128 list.
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The bathyscaphe that descended into the Marianas Trench was not organic. Its hull was made of steel. Thick steel. Living creatures suck as spacecraft, ESPECIALLY warships. The strongest materials ever seen in organisms might as well be tissue paper compared to our high-strength alloys and the ludicrously strong materials that are used to make FS ships. Even the Shivan ships are clearly metallic (see the ending cutscene and look at the light reflections on the Sathanas ships).
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Originally posted by Woolie Wool
The bathyscaphe that descended into the Marianas Trench was not organic. Its hull was made of steel. Thick steel.
^^^
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Do a search on Archaea if you're that confused about what Flaser meant :D
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I do think that Black hole effect would be really sweet
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Originally posted by Woolie Wool
The strongest materials ever seen in organisms might as well be tissue paper compared to our high-strength alloys and the ludicrously strong materials that are used to make FS ships.
And I suppose the organisms living at the bottom of the trench were made of steel, eh?
It's not the strength of the material. It's the pressure differential on the inside and outside of an organism.
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A sponge doesn't have to hold an internal pressure of 1 bar, no matter what.
Also, organisms at the bottom of the Marianas trench don't get subjected to absolute zero temperatures on one side and temperatures measured in hundreds of degrees on the other (a tube worm enjoys warm temperatures 24 hours a day in every direction because water conducts heat and vacuum does not), constant radiation bombardment, near-total vacuum, and huge warships shooting photon beam cannons at them.
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Originally posted by Woolie Wool
A sponge doesn't have to hold an internal pressure of 1 bar, no matter what.
Humans hold an internal pressure of 1 bar because they naturally live at an external pressure of 1 bar. Sponges hold an internal pressure of many bars because they naturally live at an external pressure of many bars.
You only need an enclosure if the pressure is unequal. Humans don't have steel skin because their internal and external pressures are equal. Same with sponges. If you brought an unprotected human to the bottom of the ocean he'd be crushed, and if you brought an unprotected trench sponge to the surface he'd explode. This is basic biology, Woolie.
As for a space-borne organism, it could cope with the heat if it did a perpetual "barbecue roll" like the Apollo spacecraft. It could cope with the vacuum if it had an internal vacuum (or close to it); or it could be a ball of gas, like the Starborn. As for radiation, what may be harmful for humans may not be for this alien - it could eat the radiation, for example.
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A "living ship" couldn't cope with the vacuum because without some kind of atmosphere, it will not be able to metabolize fuel efficiently.
And how, pray tell, does a gaseous organism even live?
Also, radiation is bad for any living creature, period. Organic molecules required for life are delicate and complex, and radiation destroys them. The idea of "eating radiation" is absurd.
And that still doesn't change the fact that no "bio-armor" in existence even approaches the strength of tank armor, never mind whatever FS hulls are made of. A stick of dynamite will shatter bone, enamel, and shells, but a tank wouldn't even notice it.
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About the Gravity Mod - Well, we aren't asking for things like Wing area to be taken into account or anything like that, else if you were in a Herc, TI would become a driving game. I guess what is needed is a 'Gravity' setting and a 'Bouyancy' setting, so rather than relying on the ships 'Mass', a bomber will simply have a lower 'bouyancy'.
The equation would be roughly :-
(Gm^2/100) * B
So B would run from 0 to 100, 100 meaning it is fully effected by the downward pull of Gravity and has to fight to stay above the ground. 0 hovers at no thrust.
Upward lift is Trig between the X angle and Z velocity, though I can't remember the details atm ;)
Edit : Oh, and plants have been eating radiation since before we were wondering whether the land was worth a go.
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Not only can life survive in space, we've seen it happen. Even with life not specifically evolved for it.
http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/S/Surveyor3.html
An unmanned lunar probe which soft-landed on the Moon near Oceanus Procellarum on April 20, 1967. Two and a half years later, on November 20, 1969, Apollo 12 astronauts Pete Conrad and Alan Bean recovered the camera from Surveyor 3 and brought it back to Earth. When NASA scientists examined the camera they found that the polyurethane foam insulation covering its circuit boards contained 50 to 100 viable specimens of Streptococcus mitis, a harmless bacterium commonly found in the human nose, mouth, and throat. Since the camera had been returned under strict sterile conditions, it is evident that the microbes must have been on the probe since it departed the Earth and had survived 31 months in the absence of air or water while being subjected to huge monthly temperature variations and bombardment by hard ultraviolet radiation from the Sun. Conrad later commented: "I always thought the most significant thing that we ever found on the whole ... Moon was that little bacteria who came back and living and nobody ever said [anything] about it." This is one of a number of remarkable examples of the extreme survivability of bacteria and bacterial spores. See also back contamination, forward contamination, and panspermia.
Common nose and throat bacteria survived for nearly 3 years in hard vacuum, hard radiation, and those wild temperature fluctuations. And these aren't magical space bacteria, these are normal everyday suckers happiest living in your throat, where there are probably a few thousand now.
Life finds a way.
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Uh, you do realize that bacteria in unfavorable conditions encase themselves in spores and go into a sort of suspended animation, right? They don't move, eat, or reproduce. Their metabolic functions shut down. They just sit there until the harsh conditions of space finally destroy them.
So bacteria encased in spores in a state of cryptobiosis can survive. What about an Orion-sized "living ship" that is a complex multicellular organism with ion engines and beam cannons attached? Bacteria in cryptobiosis are much different than the growing, living, complex ships you see in shows and books like Babylon 5.
And the fact still remains that these bioships could probably be pierced by assault rifles, never mind beam cannons.
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The point was that the conditions you label as unsurvivable are in fact survivable by lifeforms behaving in an appropriate manner. Super simple bacteria have a hibernation state, yes - and that behavior allows them to survive a space voyage. If you've got super simple bacteria who can go to outer space and come back still alive, isn't it just a little shortsighted and unimaginative to imagine that no form of life could possibly survive in space?
Short version: What's to stop them from doing with organic technology what we do with aluminum and steel? Tremendous amounts of human technology are based in natural evolution.
The zerg in starcraft, for instance, used exactly the same mineral resources humans used for hulls to harden their exoskeletons. Modern day whales have thick layers of blubber to protect them from environmental threats.
The factors your listing here are all things which solutions exist to - or we would never have been able to go into space ourselves, and I'm not following your reasoning for why organic life is completely incapable of incorporating those solutions into themselves.
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Thing is, theres also the fact that, for example, Spiders Web is stronger than steel cabling and the Carapace on a Beetle is also incredibly tough, once again, if it were the thickness of armour plating, it would be as strong.
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The point was that the conditions you label as unsurvivable are in fact survivable by lifeforms behaving in an appropriate manner. Super simple bacteria have a hibernation state, yes - and that behavior allows them to survive a space voyage. If you've got super simple bacteria who can go to outer space and come back still alive, isn't it just a little shortsighted and unimaginative to imagine that no form of life could possibly survive in space?
Organic ships don't just survive in sci-fi. They fly at extreme speeds, fire at other ships, take megaton-level (or worse) hits without serious damage, survive collisions with micrometeorites and debris, and repair themselves on the fly, even in the heat of combat. An organism simply can't do any of those things. Spore-encased bacteria existing for a few months is one thing, a bioship is quite another.
Thing is, theres also the fact that, for example, Spiders Web is stronger than steel cabling and the Carapace on a Beetle is also incredibly tough, once again, if it were the thickness of armour plating, it would be as strong.
First of all, spider silk can only be made in extremely small quantities and certain artificial fibers (especially sci-fi carbon nanotubules and the like) are stronger than spider silk. Furthermore, while spider silk has excellent tensile strength, its compression and shear strength (which are more important in armor) are not so impressive, and fiber provides extremely poor protection without solid plating beneath it (hence the trauma plates in body armor). Also, why bother doing all kinds of complex gene **** to make a giant carapace when you can just dig a bunch of ores and minerals out of a planet or asteroid and make plates of metallic/ceramic armor? Besides, a beetle's anatomy has extremely low internal structural strength, and such strength is an absolute must for vessels as large and fast as FS ships. Those beetles would probably be a lot tougher if they didn't have any squishy organs and soft tissues inside.
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Organic ships don't just survive in sci-fi. They fly at extreme speeds, fire at other ships, take megaton-level (or worse) hits without serious damage, survive collisions with micrometeorites and debris, and repair themselves on the fly, even in the heat of combat. An organism simply can't do any of those things. Spore-encased bacteria existing for a few months is one thing, a bioship is quite another.
And why can't it, exactly? Exactly which part of that life are you 100% certain and have uncontrivertable proof could never be done, even by ancient space gods?
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Maybe because that's the way life evolved in that case ;)
As for beetles, well, spaceships tend to have squishy humans inside too ;)
Spidersilk is merely an example, it's designed to do a specific job, which is not to hold armour plating together, however, it's only a question of how it is laminated and hardened that determines the directional strength and shear capabilities. Spidersilk would be no good, but something like Spidersilk would be.
It's easy to think that Aliens would think like Humans and assume that building ships is far far easier than growing them, but that's only because we only know how to build ships, not how to grow them. Other life forms may have far more knowledge of Biology than us, possibly at the expense of manufacturing knowledge, maybe for them it is easier to grow them, and they can't figure how anything constructed could survive in space.
All I'll say is that, just because we don't know how it's done does not always mean that it is not do-able.
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Originally posted by Woolie Wool
A "living ship" couldn't cope with the vacuum because without some kind of atmosphere, it will not be able to metabolize fuel efficiently.
It doesn't have to be efficient. More likely it would have an extremely slow metabolism and a lifespan of hundreds of thousands of years.Also, radiation is bad for any living creature, period. Organic molecules required for life are delicate and complex, and radiation destroys them. The idea of "eating radiation" is absurd.
Suppose it's a gas-based creature. It wouldn't contain "organic" molecules as we know them, and it wouldn't be very intelligent, so it could stand up to any radiation the cosmos could throw at it. About the only thing that would kill it would be to spread it out thinly enough that its constituent particles couldn't interact.
You're constraining your thinking too much. If life existed in the vacuum of space, it would probably be very different from life as we know it.
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Biological structures are not as strong as aritficial armor. Name an organism that can shrug off a 25mm cannon hit like an Abrams tank could. A living ship would have to have a circulatory system, which itself would be extremely delicate (a cell must be in close proximity to sources of metabolic fuel or it will die). Besides, a bioship would take longer to grow and would almost certainly consume far more resources than a conventional design. The monstrous honey mushroom, which covers several square kilometers, takes millennia to grow to full size. Bioships must build cell by cell, fueling growth with (highly) inefficient processing of nutrients. Modern materials science allow us to create gigantic metal castings and stampings in seconds.
You're constraining your thinking too much. If life existed in the vacuum of space, it would probably be very different from life as we know it.
But the problem is your average sci-fi chic bioship is a ****ing animal with engines and lasers attached to it!
As for beetles, well, spaceships tend to have squishy humans inside too
The squishy humans don't have to bear the stresses imparted on a ship in flight. With inertial dampers, you could be on a ship accelerating at thousands of Gs, and your coffee wouldn't even be disturbed. However, the spaceframe would have to bear those loads and stresses because it is integral to the ship's structure. Besides, I don't see why a capital ship couldn't be programmed to return to home base through some kind of autopilot, even if its entire crew is dead.
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1) Biological structures are proportionately stronger than artificial armor. If you made a thread of spider silk and a thread of steel the same size, the silk would be stronger. If you made a tank as small as a beetle, the beetle would be stronger.
2) Structures grow more fragile the larger they are. This is because volume increases faster than surface area.
3) Large organisms consume proportionately fewer nutrients than smaller organisms. A hummingbird eats three times its weight in food each day; an elephant eats much less.
This is not about sci-fi, and I never claimed that it was. This is about sci... what science tells us an organism would be like.
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Originally posted by Goober5000
1) Biological structures are proportionately stronger than artificial armor. If you made a thread of spider silk and a thread of steel the same size, the silk would be stronger. If you made a tank as small as a beetle, the beetle would be stronger.
2) Structures grow more fragile the larger they are. This is because volume increases faster than surface area.
3) Large organisms consume proportionately fewer nutrients than smaller organisms. A hummingbird eats three times its weight in food each day; an elephant eats much less.
This is not about sci-fi, and I never claimed that it was. This is about sci... what science tells us an organism would be like.
This discussion originated about bioships. Bacteria are not bioships.
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For the first and perhaps only time in my life, I agree with Woolie Wool.
Bioships are a fecking stupid idea.
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I'm not talking about bacteria or bioships, I'm talking about the physical laws that space-borne organisms must obey. Which you seem to blithely ignore.
I'm closing this before it becomes a flame war, because it's gone far abroad from its original topic. Go read up on your science.