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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: deep_eyes on January 29, 2005, 07:53:09 pm

Title: New type of propulstion system being developed...
Post by: deep_eyes on January 29, 2005, 07:53:09 pm
http://www.pr.afrl.af.mil/divisions/prt/pde/Videos/longez/longez.html

By the US AIRFORCE.... hmmmm
Title: New type of propulstion system being developed...
Post by: Solatar on January 29, 2005, 08:04:48 pm
Call me stupid, but what is it?
Title: New type of propulstion system being developed...
Post by: IceFire on January 29, 2005, 08:05:59 pm
Oh, the Pulse Detonation engines...the idea is nothing new....the fact that it works now and not before is.  I think its supposed to be fairly revolutionary like the jet was to the propller...or almost as much so.  The big problem is noise...I wonder if they solved that yet.
Title: New type of propulstion system being developed...
Post by: IceFire on January 29, 2005, 08:06:40 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Solatar
Call me stupid, but what is it?

Pulse Detonation. Think of it as a jet engine except that instead of a continuous stream of energy it creates little micro explosions.  Thats the basics...there's more to it than that.  I forget the details...but it equals more power.
Title: New type of propulstion system being developed...
Post by: Flipside on January 29, 2005, 08:09:42 pm
Problem is, once they zoom out, it looks like they are demonstrating a really strong desk-fan..... :nervous:
Title: New type of propulstion system being developed...
Post by: Clave on January 29, 2005, 08:47:26 pm
Pulse jets were first used in the V1 missiles  IIRC.  500,000 homes were destroyed by them in the UK during 1944....
Title: New type of propulstion system being developed...
Post by: karajorma on January 30, 2005, 05:34:32 am
That's what I was thinking of Clave. So if we had them in 1944 and then stopped using them why have we gone back to them?
Title: New type of propulstion system being developed...
Post by: Zarax on January 30, 2005, 05:44:19 am
Why would you spend gov fundings in useful stuff when you can do the same on things that looks cool?
[/sarcasm]

Seriously speaking, they might have found them useful for ultrasonic propulsion, or maybe improving afterburner efficency...
Title: New type of propulstion system being developed...
Post by: Flaser on January 30, 2005, 09:17:31 am
Read the ****ing page posted - most of your questions are answered.

Yes, the Germans built similar engines for the V1, however in those the fuel wasn't detonated, so it's efficency was ~5-10% of what a PDE would be capable of.

It's greatness if operating a lot more efficiently than turbofan engines (except for high bypass turbofan engines) even at high speeds - which is only achieveable with afterburners BTW so no wonder it's more efficient.

On the other hand I'm not convinced so far that mechanically this system would be just as reliable or cheap to run than a normal jet engine - though it DOES look promising.

Also note, that Ram- and Scramjets are still the way to go for higher speeds.

(http://www.pr.afrl.af.mil/divisions/prt/pde/PDE_FAQ/specimpulse.JPG)
This looks really promising.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_engine
Wiki never lets you down.

EDIT - added diagram and lick to wikkipedia article.
Title: New type of propulstion system being developed...
Post by: Unknown Target on January 30, 2005, 09:48:59 am
Knew about this years ago when it came out in Popular Science.
Title: New type of propulstion system being developed...
Post by: pyro-manic on January 30, 2005, 12:37:28 pm
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma
That's what I was thinking of Clave. So if we had them in 1944 and then stopped using them why have we gone back to them?


Pulsejets have been around since the1900s IIRC. A British invention I think...

This bloke (http://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/) has been messing about with pulsejets for years. Interesting little site he's got. Check it out...
Title: New type of propulstion system being developed...
Post by: vyper on January 30, 2005, 12:40:44 pm
Awesome stuff.
Title: New type of propulstion system being developed...
Post by: Flipside on January 30, 2005, 02:19:34 pm
Tis good, but I can't help feeling that the money and research would be far better spent had they concentrated on moving away from Fossil-fuels.
Title: New type of propulstion system being developed...
Post by: Dark_4ce on January 30, 2005, 02:50:47 pm
Interesting... There's been talk about this in the conspiracy circles for a long time. Namely with the Aurora project using this engine. Theres even some footage of the contrails it's left behind, which look like donuts on a string because of the pulse detonations.
 (http://www.aemann.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/aircraft/black/aurora/images/contrail2.jpg)

Now I don't personally believe in the aurora project, but I do believe this engine or some sort of prototype has flown before.
Title: New type of propulstion system being developed...
Post by: pyro-manic on January 30, 2005, 03:15:27 pm
The Aurora project? That was a strategic bomber, wasn't it? Or am I thinking of something else.....?
Title: New type of propulstion system being developed...
Post by: Unknown Target on January 30, 2005, 03:17:30 pm
I believe there was an Aurora strategic bomber in development for the defense of the northern territories in the 1950s or so.
Title: New type of propulstion system being developed...
Post by: Bobboau on January 30, 2005, 03:49:43 pm
Aurora a hypersonic ubberplane that can circle the planet in three hours. suposedly it uses a PDE. it's suposed to be one of the realy cool (real) things to have come out of Area 51, if it exsists, wich it probly does in some form. the stealth fighter (f117) and bomber (B2) were other examples of stuff to have been developed at Nellis that "didn't exsist" wich leter turned out to be majorly important weapon systems.
Title: New type of propulstion system being developed...
Post by: Zarax on January 30, 2005, 03:57:04 pm
Nellis would be a cool place to visit :p
Anyone remembers the old F19?
Title: New type of propulstion system being developed...
Post by: Bobboau on January 30, 2005, 04:21:33 pm
you mean this?
(http://www.fantastic-plastic.com/TESTORS%20F-19%20MAIN.jpg)
Title: New type of propulstion system being developed...
Post by: Bobboau on January 30, 2005, 04:25:49 pm
and while I'm posting,
the Aurora:
(http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/9054/aurora1.jpg)
Title: New type of propulstion system being developed...
Post by: Zarax on January 30, 2005, 04:39:24 pm
The Aurora looks a lot like the A12
Title: New type of propulstion system being developed...
Post by: Carl on January 30, 2005, 05:17:19 pm
wow. who would have thought that the US army could have developed an aircraft that was so poorly computer generated.
Title: New type of propulstion system being developed...
Post by: Flaser on January 30, 2005, 05:44:07 pm
The Aurora or some equivalent probably exists since the US spends an awful lot of mone of scramjet development.

Scramjets are ramjet engines where the air passes through the engine without being slowed down to subsonic speeds, therefore it doesn't waste it's energy and gives of more thrust.
Ramjets are jet engines that have no moving parts - they only start working at roughly 2 machs. Instead a turbine it is the flow of air itself into the engine that compresses it.

The Aurora will probably use some scramjet engine, however since these only work on high speeds it will probably need a different type of engine for taking of a reaching cruising height - Pulse Detonation Engines are good candidate since their output is still good in the area where scramjets start to work.
Title: New type of propulstion system being developed...
Post by: Clave on January 31, 2005, 05:33:51 am
It would be interesting to see if a turbofan engine could be made with blades that fold away so it could operate as a 'pure' ramjet...

Missiles with ramjets were pretty much my whole life at one time btw, I worked as an engineer servicing these for about 8 years:

http://www.picture-newsletter.com/missile/