Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Cobra on February 01, 2005, 07:45:53 pm

Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Cobra on February 01, 2005, 07:45:53 pm
and texture? I need to know how to break down objects and texture a model.
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Goober5000 on February 01, 2005, 09:25:37 pm
A hammer works well.  Pound on the object until it breaks apart, and then pound on all the broken pieces (subobjects).  Keep doing this until the pieces are the size you want.

Once you've done this, get out the sandpaper and sand them to your liking.  Large grit (60) gives you a rough texture; small grit (120) gives you a smoother texture.  Use super-small grit (300) to make them really smooth.

Another way to get the pieces smooth is to buy a rock tumbler.  Tumble the pieces for a few days and they'll come out nice and smooth.
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Cobra on February 01, 2005, 09:34:01 pm
??????????
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: phreak on February 01, 2005, 10:41:09 pm
i am rather surprised by this revelation.  will any kind of hammer suffice, or must i use a sledgehammer or a jackhammer to do this?
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Taristin on February 01, 2005, 10:44:39 pm
Can I use a combination of water, or other lubricant, and the 300 grit sand paper to get things ultra smooth? Or is that one of those shop teases like headlight fluid, and muffler bearings?
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Nuke on February 01, 2005, 11:01:56 pm
bah, just use an angle grinder :D
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Swamp_Thing on February 01, 2005, 11:04:28 pm
:lol: :lol:

I was surprised by Goobs response to Cobra´s question, but i totally understand why. When people keep asking stuff over and over again, and never bother to read the links others post for them, one tends to feel fed up and lash out.
Cobra, read the articles people posted for you. Use the seach engine. For your particular problem, i believe Karajorma has a good link in his sig. The WIKI should help out aswell.
You´ve been around for a few months now, you should know this by now.
 :doubt:
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Anaz on February 01, 2005, 11:05:42 pm
:lol:

and that, ladies and gentlemen, is how to properly lash out :p
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Cobra on February 01, 2005, 11:15:52 pm
:(
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Taristin on February 01, 2005, 11:18:54 pm
Quit spamming!
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: NGTM-1R on February 02, 2005, 01:28:54 am
Quote
Originally posted by Raa
Quit spamming!


Tell it to Goober too and we might listen to you.
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: KARMA on February 02, 2005, 05:02:58 am
ehy, the moderators don't spam :D

btw I understand how much noobs can feel lost and blinded with some scp features...I feel sometimes the same... but asking how to do subobjects is really comic:)
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Nico on February 02, 2005, 06:02:22 am
Quote
Originally posted by Cobra
:(


telling what prog you're using, stuff like that, might help :p
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Col. Fishguts on February 02, 2005, 07:05:29 am
Technically...since his question was so vague, Goob's answer is 100% correct.
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Nuke on February 02, 2005, 08:45:25 am
theres always c4 :D
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Goober5000 on February 02, 2005, 10:16:40 am
C4 works too. :D

@phreak: Certainly.  I was speaking in the general case, but sledgehammers, jackhammers, c4, or indeed any violent interaction of object against object will break them into subobjects quite effectively. ;)
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: TopAce on February 02, 2005, 11:34:53 am
I am sure he talks about TrueSpace. If he had been using something else, he would have mentioned it.
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Flipside on February 02, 2005, 11:38:24 am
Meh, I just make a cube and let an artistically inclined Sath loose on it..... :nervous:
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: WeatherOp on February 02, 2005, 12:03:55 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Goober5000
C4 works too. :D

@phreak: Certainly.  I was speaking in the general case, but sledgehammers, jackhammers, c4, or indeed any violent interaction of object against object will break them into subobjects quite effectively. ;)



You can also use a hand saw, or in a exteme case a chain saw. Or you can just bang it on the heads of the people of HLP and it will break after a while. Don't worry, our heads are hard enough.;7

      :hammer:
:blah:
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: karajorma on February 02, 2005, 12:21:29 pm
Quote
Originally posted by TopAce
I am sure he talks about TrueSpace. If he had been using something else, he would have mentioned it.


Bad assumption TopAce. He might have been on about TrueSpace but IIRC he hated it and used blender.
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: TopAce on February 02, 2005, 01:24:24 pm
I really don't know, I do not keep track on who uses what.
Wait for him to respond...
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Cobra on February 02, 2005, 02:26:27 pm
what do you think i'm using? TrueSpace 3.2 of course! Everyone except Grimloq has it!
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: TopAce on February 02, 2005, 02:29:15 pm
I know some tricks with TrueSpace, but the answer to your question is not among them. :o

Sorry, dude.
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: NGTM-1R on February 02, 2005, 02:28:42 pm
And me.

Which is going to be bad...
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Carl on February 02, 2005, 02:31:33 pm
you're gonna have to do it manually with booleans. the computer isn't gonna know where you want your object to be divided by. A computer isn't gonna look at a model and say " well, i see two engines and a cockpit, so i'll split them up into those three peices" It'll look at it and just see a bunch of polygons and vertices. you have to cut it up yourself.
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Cobra on February 02, 2005, 02:33:35 pm
er, that's what I want to know. and how to use LithUnwrap.

BTW, i did a search yesterday, and the search gave me diddly squat.
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: TopAce on February 02, 2005, 02:36:43 pm
Try a search at TrueSpace. Look for 'Boolean(s)' and 'Cleaving'. I do not know if TS knows the term cleaving; I learnt that word by JED(Jedi Knight (I) Editor) and it did exactly what I think you want.
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Goober5000 on February 02, 2005, 02:44:12 pm
Learn to search... (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,27446.0.html)

That's for LithUnwrap.  Though I didn't see anything resembling a how-to for separating subobjects.
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Nuke on February 02, 2005, 02:59:43 pm
use the seporate selected part of object tool. not sure if ts3 has that though. i know its selection tools suck, im using ts6 now which has far better selection and uv mapping. definately better than 4. ideally though you want to make your submodels as seprate objects. cutting  them up will only create bad geometry. in some rare cases the decompose into objects tool works too, but it gives you less control over what gets seporated. it is oddly capable of undoing most booleans.
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Nico on February 02, 2005, 03:05:04 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Cobra
what do you think i'm using? TrueSpace 3.2 of course! Everyone except Grimloq has it!


Her, I'd rather give up on 3D than having to use TS.
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Taristin on February 02, 2005, 04:43:03 pm
I'd rather give up on 3d than go back to TS. :p
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Cobra on February 02, 2005, 04:46:31 pm
i can't even figure out 3D and TS, i just use TS for conversions, and blender is very easy to use.
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Nico on February 02, 2005, 04:51:04 pm
no, I meant 3d as 3d modelling, not as 3dsmax :p
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Taristin on February 02, 2005, 04:52:34 pm
As did I.  3ds is max, 3d is the entire perspective :p
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Cobra on February 02, 2005, 04:54:21 pm
oh :nervous: well, can someone teach me to use LithUnwrap then?
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: karajorma on February 02, 2005, 05:17:14 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Cobra
i can't even figure out 3D and TS, i just use TS for conversions, and blender is very easy to use.


Then cut it up in blender.
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Goober5000 on February 02, 2005, 05:23:15 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Cobra
oh :nervous: well, can someone teach me to use LithUnwrap then?
Did you not see my previous post? :wtf:
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Cobra on February 02, 2005, 05:39:06 pm
didn't see that one.
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Nuke on February 03, 2005, 10:28:12 am
im so good with ts than i only play with max every now and then, just to goof off really, if i want to make a ship il just load truespace. max is good but iv never got around to learning it.
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: vyper on February 03, 2005, 10:47:49 am
At first I felt sorry for him because of his treatment - now I feel sorry for him because society has clearly once again got in the way of Darwin's spirit.
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Cobra on February 03, 2005, 11:09:39 am
:confused: who are you talking about?
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Unknown Target on February 03, 2005, 12:05:44 pm
You're an idiot.

Anyway, if you're in TS3, I'm sure there's a tutorial somewhere--if you search.
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Cobra on February 03, 2005, 12:33:47 pm
..... I...DO....SEARCH...MORON. I just can't find what I'm looking for.
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: vyper on February 03, 2005, 12:55:41 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Cobra
:confused: who are you talking about?


You ya tube. Try listening to these guys once - even if they are arseholes to you at times, they are still trying to help. :)
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: karajorma on February 03, 2005, 01:20:30 pm
http://www.lunadude.com/rsrc_trueSpace.htm

If there isn't something that will help somewhere on there I'll eat my hat. Well actually I'll have to buy a hat first then eat it but you get my point.

I'll tell you now though. It won't be big sign saying "Here's how to break objects into sub objects" though. Take a good look around and pay special attention to anything involving booleans.
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Cobra on February 03, 2005, 01:40:25 pm
booleans give me gas :D
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Nuke on February 03, 2005, 02:13:33 pm
booleans have their uses but they also have limits. i use them sparingly. the big block intersect technique is a really good way to clean up a mesh.
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: KARMA on February 03, 2005, 06:24:57 pm
actually I think he's asking how to make a subobject in TS for fs2, i.e. how to beef up a hierachy.

Which, if I'm not wrong, is even worse
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Cobra on February 03, 2005, 08:11:29 pm
er, you're right karma. that's what i'm asking. getter robo g wants me to do a little bit of modelling work for him, and i need to know how to that.
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Swamp_Thing on February 03, 2005, 10:27:28 pm
Ok, listen up Cobra. Listen very carefully, i´ll shall say this only once:

There are 2 kinds of subobjects in FS.
The physical ones, where an actuall object is used.
And the coded ones, where a spot in a mesh is used by FS to point a subsystem. Like a fighterbay.
The latter one is made in PCS and ModelView, by choosing certain coordenates of the model and assigning the proper code in the table entry. Check around. The method is exactlly the same as turrets, basically.
As for physical subobjects:
First of all, you´ll need a TS plugin, called TrueView. Get it on the site Karajorma pointed out above.
Next is to remember a fundamental rule of modeling: organize yourself. Picture what you´re going to do first, BEFORE starting the work. It´s very hard to break down a mesh into seperate objects, once you´ve done it. So build them in seperate. If you want a certain part of a ship to rotate, for example, you must build it in seperate.
Once you have two objects, wich we will call the "main hull" and "subobjects", you need to group them. Basically, grouping them means adding a light to each object. It´s very easy to do.
Open Trueview (while on TS), and select your object. Then place a light next to it, and use the various viewports in TS to center the light with the object. Then move to TrueView, select the light (if you haven´t already) and drag in into the object in question. It´s just like Windows Explorer. It´s a drag and drop operation, all done in the TrueView window. You will notice that once you drop a light into an object, a small "+" sign will appear left of the object. That means it´s a "group". Open it by clicking on the "+", and you´ll see the object and the light.
Do the same for the object you wish to have as "subobject". Then, to complete the operation, you drag the subobject group into your "main hull" group (always in Trueview).
And that´s it. Name the groups acordingly, call the main grup "Freespace Model". Save it, and convert it.The rest is just like turreting, of wich you can read an extensive tutorial in Karajorma´s sig, as i had said earlier. You can also open a model from FS and check the hierarchy of it on TrueView, to get a better idea.

That´s it. Remember to organize yourself, and think ahead. Always.
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Cobra on February 03, 2005, 10:56:54 pm
yikes. that's a lot!
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: StratComm on February 03, 2005, 11:22:56 pm
This whole modding thing isn't milk-n-cookies anyway, especially if you're new to it.  While Freespace is fairly open to modding, it's got some conventions that are, well, annoying at best, and we still don't have a good editing program for the post-modeling work that's as comprehensive as it should be.  Modview and PCS come close, but to complete a model you must use both, often simultaneously.  It's a steep learning curve, and if you don't start simple (like with Kara's modding FAQ) you're going to get lost really fast.  Take it slow.
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: KARMA on February 04, 2005, 05:07:51 am
How to make a subobject in ts for fs2 is just ridicolous, it is the very very very basic of modding, and it is covered in at least 4  tutorials (max sterling's, karajoma's, ipandrwes', bobboau's) which are pretty known in the community and easy to find.
Asking for that after some months spent here means just "ehy I'm too lazy to make a search, please do it for me". You know cobra, you won't find many fans that way
Making searches, trials and errors is the only way to learn something, doing that for him means that he'll never learn and he'll continue asking stupid questions in future.
I've nothing against cobra or answering questions (actually I do it very often) but I'm totally against responding to THAT kind of questions. That's what tutorials are there for
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: TopAce on February 04, 2005, 05:23:52 am
I agree with the point of doing a search, KARMA, but I think why Cobra actually did not do a search was he did not know how this feature was called in TS or he tried a search and failed.
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Swamp_Thing on February 04, 2005, 06:31:59 am
Quote
Originally posted by Cobra
yikes. that's a lot!


If you want it easy, stick to gardening. Every single modeller here has been where you are now. And if they/we managed, you should manage aswell. But obviouslly you´ll have to work for it. Being a lazy arse won´t get you nowhere.
If it were easy, everybody would be doing it. It takes patience, perseverence, and lots of sleepless nights hammering at it. If you are expecting to be able to build a quality model after only a couple of days, think again. You´ll get a whole lot of bad reviews and critics before it starts to get better. You´ll get a lot of  
:ick: s and :no:  before you start getting those :yes: .
Start small, and slowly move up the ladder. Otherwise you´ll fall on your arse if you try to climb too fast.
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: Cobra on February 04, 2005, 11:20:44 am
ST, take a look at the last few pages in the utility freighter thread in the fs modding forum. you'll see a huge improvement from 7 blocks to a decent looking x-wing fighter.
Title: How Do I Break Objects Into SubObjects?
Post by: TopAce on February 04, 2005, 11:25:25 am
Swamp_Thing is right. Heed his advice.