Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: vyper on February 02, 2005, 01:47:07 pm
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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1467142,00.html
Kilroy Silk has launched a new political party in the UK. Essentially it's the opposite of everything the other parties stand for right now, and it's going to be interesting how it's recieved.
The press go out of their way to destroy Silk, and almost every Tv report is somehow slanted. So will Veritas even survive the night?
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The Press will follow public swing on this occasion I think. If nothing else, if it starts to gain popularity, it will at least prove how unpopular our current excuse for a government is.
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We can only hope it fails quickly.
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He said of the concept of multi-culturalism: "We are going to put a stop to this nonsense", and added: "Our country is being stolen from us and we have never been asked for our permission." Conservatives and Labour promised to control immigration and asylum but had surrendered powers to Brussels, he said.
He seems to agree with you(and me coincidentally) at least on the surface. The reason the media don't like him is because they are likely own right down to their souls by the idea of the EU and a possible World Government that could arise from it.
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Well, I'm not opposed to multi-culturism as such, but he is right in the fact that we weren't prepared, or even told it was going to happen, the protection put in place against illegal aliens dates back in places to the days when people used to sit on cliff-tops on a one-legged stool watching out for smugglers.
It's not just Blairs home, it's all of ours, and he quite happily left the door and all the windows open and shouted 'Come on in!' from the lawn.
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Kilroy for PM!
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Our country is being stolen from us and we have never been asked for our permission."
To me that sets off some alarms and flashing red lights.
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which part? The part about the fact that there is uncontrolled immigration of people who have no desire to become real britons or the part about them not asking permission.
We've got the same problem in this country, we've got literally millions who come to this country for work or whatever and they have no desire to adapt to our culture. I for one think that we need to lock down the borders and force them to come in legally(along with all the requirements that represents) or not at all.
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Yeah, Kilroy himself is a no-go as far as my own political tastes are concerned, but he raises points that will score with a fair percentage of Sun/Mirror readers out there. With any luck, it might shake up the other parties enough to get their act together.
About 10 years ago, Tower Hamlets voted in the BNP as a protest vote about the fact that immigrants were arriving and being put straight into housing when people had been living on the streets or in hostels, on the housing list, for years, and basically these people had been jumped clean over their heads. It wasn't the immigrants fault by a long shot, good luck to 'em, but that kind of ignorance on the part of authority is going to get noticed, and it wouldn't be the first time in the UK that a political cock-up has led to violence on the streets.
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Oooh.... Kilroy. A man (actually, a permatanned arrogant dickhead, but who's counting?) sacked from his job(s) for racism, campaigning primarily on a stand against multi-culturalism........
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I accept that uncontrolled immigration is a real problem; a country only has a certain capacity. But I don't believe that all the burden of cultural adaptation must be on the immigrants. We must make an effort as well, because one way or another, a large immigrant population is going to change the culture that surrounds it. We can either accept it gracefully by trying to adapt to them as much as they adapt to us, or we can make it painful by trying in vain to make our culture static.
But again, I do not believe in simply letting anyone and everyone through.
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This, alas is a brick wall on both sides. There are people who are incapable of accepting the differences between the cultures on either side, and stubbornly continue, blindly ignoring the world around them, to pretend that nothing has changed. I don't have a problem with Mosques etc, but when you get an Indian woman who has lived in England for 30 years and still can't refuses to learn English, I begin to get concerned.
It's not that dissimilar to British who retire to Spain or France and never bother learning the local customs/language, and we all know how annoying people find those.
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Of course what most people don't get is that without immigration, illegal or otherwise, you can say goodbye to our economy. People complain about how they steal jobs, ruin our "culture" (and I hasten to add that the U.S. is a country of immigrants, the WASPs just got thier first) and other assorted acts of mini-terrorism, the fact of the matter is, is that there is large parts of the economy that depend on immigration. There are jobs in this country that most of us just wont do and with the increasinly aged population we will be unable to support our economy. To put it plainly without immigration our countries will be unable to survive. The biggest problem with immigration is, of course, the welfare system, now admitedly this is less of a problem for the U.S. but here in the U.K. with the NHS we will have huge problems. However, with the need to vastly restructure the whole U.K. welfare system, perhaps this is a good time to look at the situation. You may not like the idea, but we NEED immigration, or it's goodbye to the Western system of government...and Mr. Silk would not like that.
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Bah, the brits **** up half the world and complain when it lands on their doorstep.
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All politicians, and wannabe politicians are blood-sucking vermin - don't vote for any of them!
Oh, and Kilroy = Satan in a smart suit...
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Bah, the brits **** up half the world and complain when it lands on their doorstep.
Haha, spoken like a true Irishman.
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Meh, wasn't me that went raping half the continent :p
But yes, in a way, you are right, if we go traipsing round the world sticking up Union Jacks and telling people they're part of the British Empire, we shouldn't really be surprised when they decide to come home ;)
It's not really the fact of immigration that is a problem, as has been said, our finances need it, I think what angers people is that it was so completely poorly planned and instigated, for people who are supposed to be running a country, they couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery. Things like the NHS and Welfare should have been taken care of first, I cannot believe for one moment that the government were unaware of what was going to happen.
It's almost as though they created a problem just so they'd have an excuse to spend millions in fixing it.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Oooh.... Kilroy. A man (actually, a permatanned arrogant dickhead, but who's counting?) sacked from his job(s) for racism, campaigning primarily on a stand against multi-culturalism........
You should know that the article he was sacked for was heavily editted, and he did NOT deserve to be sacked for it. It was the multi-culturalists who made him lose his job. If he is such a rascist then how did he get into a medium-sized political party
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Meh they dont mind the Irish so much these days, the times you'd see signs say no blacks no dogs no irish are gone, its the Indians and pakistanis the're rearing up over. Never mind the fact that these places were full of British immigrants telling them what to do and getting rich off their natural resources and shooting them if they had a problem with that and are third world countrys now because of this.
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This has been far from an uncommon tactic throughout history, I don't look upon the influx of immigrants as 'revenge' or 'Karma' or anything like that, though, just simply the world changing. What annoys me is the fact that some people cannot accept that change, and some governments think that ignoring the change at the sufferance of everybody is a good idea.
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Clarify something for me, what exactly is the problem? Illegal immigrants? immigrants in general? people who have different skin colour and/or languages? Cos I see no cohesive arguement here, we weren't prepared, its the governments fault etc etc. Just exactly what is the problem?
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Skin Colour? :wtf: Don't go there Gank, if you want to post inflammatory posts, go ahead, but don't go there.
And you stated the problem. In many ways we were aware of our obligations to the EU, and our obligations to people who need immigration. And yet practically no steps were taken to deal with the extra weight it would bring on the NHS and Income Support systems. We weren't ready, and, quite frankly, we should have been.
Like I said before, I have no problem with immigration as such, but it was poorly organised, poorly dealt with and has caused too much bad feeling because of this.
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Friction between different ethnic groups who both feel threatened by the other, which has the potential to escalate into something worse and maybe violent.
And the racists just lap it up, see...
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[q]Meh they dont mind the Irish so much these days[/q]
Come to Glasgow.
[q]Clarify something for me, what exactly is the problem? [/q]
The powerful white folks are making the other white folks feel guilty for not being black folks, or for not bending over and taking it up the arse from the black folks.
Following so far?
Basically people are sick fed up with being made to feel like second class citizens in a country they are historically more native to than the thousands of minorities that get special treatment today.
I'll be honest, when I go out I know if I or any of my white, middle class, straight friends get into trouble with minority lads for whatever unknown reason - we will never be portrayed or accepted by the police or media as the victims. Always the implied agressor.
Example. A few years ago I heard about stories from my old primary school: There was a kid, an indian/asian lad, who was a bit of a bully. He picked on one white kid constantly and mentioned his colour in the bullying language. One day the poor lad snapped and told the bully in some none too vague terms what he thought of him, and mentioned his colour.
Suddenly, after months of being ignored this situation was leapt upon by the School. Guess what? The bully got away scot free (literally because there was no space on the report form for anti-white comments), and the poor lad being bullied got a permanent record of racist comments against his name.
Small example, big problem.
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And for the record:
[q]but he raises points that will score with a fair percentage of Sun/Mirror readers out there[/q]
I read The Times.
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Originally posted by kietotheworld
You should know that the article he was sacked for was heavily editted, and he did NOT deserve to be sacked for it. It was the multi-culturalists who made him lose his job. If he is such a rascist then how did he get into a medium-sized political party
Because he's been on the TV and is recognisable. It's that simple.
Oh, and you'll notice that he never apologised for that article; and if it was edited, then it shows he's willing to put his name to other peoples work for money, which would mean his opinion colum was simply a lie.
'sides which, just look at the man - he's a tosspot.
NB: on immigration; we should welcome anyone who comes here and is willing to work... and that includes the poor sods who end up having to work on building sites or cockle picking for cash-in-hand. We'd expect the same in other countries... and lets not forget that many asylum seekers legally cannot work unless granted asylum. Too often we scapegoat immigrants who in actuality prop up the economy by working for miniscule wages and long hours.
Of course, what I really hate is the people who assume that, if someone isn't white skinned, then they must be an immigrant.
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Thing is, it's not just the 'Native' Britons that are suffering for it. Legal Immigrants are sometimes housed 10 to a room or the like, theres precious little oversight of Landlords to make sure they aren't forcing people to live in squalor. And that lack of planning doesn't do much to raise us in their opinions.
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That was a reference to the complaints about britain being multi-cultural, although you cant deny that a lot of the *****ing about immigrants being done over there is based solely on rascism.
As for the Nhs and social services, I think you'll find their inability to cope had more to do with a certain iron lady than a mass influx of sick immigrants claiming the dole.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Because he's been on the TV and is recognisable. It's that simple.
Yeah, s'pose so
Oh, and you'll notice that he never apologised for that article; and if it was edited, then it shows he's willing to put his name to other peoples work for money, which would mean his opinion colum was simply a lie.
He didn't even know the Article would be sent out,
he wrote the Article months ago, and when it came out (UNEDITED) there was no uproar etc. The newspaper (Its name escapes me) changed the article to make it more inflammatory
'sides which, just look at the man - he's a tosspot.
You judge people by their looks and expect to be taken seriously? :wtf:
NB: on immigration; we should welcome anyone who comes here and is willing to work... and that includes the poor sods who end up having to work on building sites or cockle picking for cash-in-hand. We'd expect the same in other countries... and lets not forget that many asylum seekers legally cannot work unless granted asylum. Too often we scapegoat immigrants who in actuality prop up the economy by working for miniscule wages and long hours.
Of course, what I really hate is the people who assume that, if someone isn't white skinned, then they must be an immigrant.
Your last two points I mostly agree with, except the fact that we should welcome everyone willing to work. Can you not see that too many immigrants will result in a nation with no individuality, just a hodge podge of different nationalities.
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Interesting to note that a lot of the doctors you see in the NHS are nth generation immigrants, of course. As for the dole (etc) , there's not exactly a shortage of white* British skivers, is there?
*for the people who equate 'white' with 'British'
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Originally posted by vyper
Come to Glasgow.
The hardcore huns up there are a special case. The majority of British people dont have to live with the stigmata of selling their own out and animosity dies down easier.
Originally posted by vyper
The powerful white folks are making the other white folks feel guilty for not being black folks, or for not bending over and taking it up the arse from the black folks.
Following so far?
Basically people are sick fed up with being made to feel like second class citizens in a country they are historically more native to than the thousands of minorities that get special treatment today.
I'll be honest, when I go out I know if I or any of my white, middle class, straight friends get into trouble with minority lads for whatever unknown reason - we will never be portrayed or accepted by the police or media as the victims. Always the implied agressor.
So the problem is minoritys getting treated better than the white majority, not immigration?
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No one would accuse the minorities of skiving, lets just look at how many are successful in small business in our city aldo. The issue I personally take with it is how they do it. There's an attitude that doesn't go with our culture that they have: it's an arrogance that makes English football commentary look humble (ahem, no offence to anyone).
Edit:
[q]
So the problem is minoritys getting treated better than the white majority, not immigration?[/q]
If you wish, but think of it this way: This unfair treatment proves we do not have a society capable of handling immigrants properly. Thus you could argue immigration is the problem.
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Kilroy is on the Radio right now on talkSPORT, http:\\www.talksport.net and 1089AM.
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Originally posted by kietotheworld
He didn't even know the Article would be sent out,
he wrote the Article months ago, and when it came out (UNEDITED) there was no uproar etc. The newspaper (Its name escapes me) changed the article to make it more inflammatory
That sounds like an excuse for either not looking at what he writes, or not caring what is under his name as long as he gets paid. Or simple scapegoatery.
Not a good attribute for a public service, IMO.
Originally posted by kietotheworld
You judge people by their looks and expect to be taken seriously?
Take look as in 'listen to his attitude towards other people and his views', if you wish to be literal about it. He is patently a self-serving arrogant....person; he joined one party, and then quit in a huff because he couldn't lead it. Every mistake he's made, he blames on others - blaming his column on his secretary, blaiming his decision to have to leave UKIP on the people in that party who decided not to vote for him.
Originally posted by kietotheworld
Your last two points I mostly agree with, except the fact that we should welcome everyone willing to work. Can you not see that too many immigrants will result in a nation with no individuality, just a hodge podge of different nationalities.
And that matters why? We're already a hodge podge of 'nationalities' by definition - Scottish, Welsh, N.Irish, English. And then take regional into that..... not to mention the 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants who are as 'British' as you or I (in the ways in which a person can be considered 'British'.... I don't onsider myself British 1st or 2nd, after all).
I mean, what is national 'individuality' beyond a feeble stereotype? If it's so important, why would we lose it by having different people?
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Originally posted by kietotheworld
Kilroy is on the Radio right now on talkSPORT, http:\\www.talksport.net and 1089AM.
Did he replace Mike Dickens in the moring? My father was raging that he was taken off.
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Originally posted by vyper
No one would accuse the minorities of skiving, lets just look at how many are successful in small business in our city aldo. The issue I personally take with it is how they do it. There's an attitude that doesn't go with our culture that they have: it's an arrogance that makes English football commentary look humble (ahem, no offence to anyone).
Not in any I've ever met; in fact, I find the whole idea of 'arrogance' baffling, because I've never seen it. Unless you mean those who keep some of their own cultural heritage and wish to preserve that?
Originally posted by vyper
If you wish, but think of it this way: This unfair treatment proves we do not have a society capable of handling immigrants properly. Thus you could argue immigration is the problem.
So we should propagate that failure by blaming the faults of society on those who bear the effects of it?
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I don't think it's what National Identity is as much as what people want National Identity to be.
In many ways Immigrants are made scapegoats for that, they are accused of destroying a culture which is constantly in flux anyway.
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Originally posted by Flipside
I don't think it's what National Identity is as much as what people want National Identity to be.
In many ways Immigrants are made scapegoats for that, they are accused of destroying a culture which is constantly in flux anyway.
A culture which surely should itself be determined by its members, and not vice versa?
EDIt; aw, hell.......
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Originally posted by vyper
If you wish, but think of it this way: This unfair treatment proves we do not have a society capable of handling immigrants properly. Thus you could argue immigration is the problem.
Well I can see it could be considered part of the problem, a simple solution to the problem you posted would be to just have a single box for rascist remarks, as opposed to specific ones. As for the larger problem, ie Britain moving away from its traditional white view of itself, theres sfa you can do about it really, save breeding a bit faster.
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Originally posted by vyper
Did he replace Mike Dickens in the moring? My father was raging that he was taken off.
No, Ian Collins and Mike Parry replaced Dickin, and Dickin now does 10PM-1AM on friday 11PM-1AM on Saturday and 10PM-1AM on sundays.
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From what I saw, the guy's equivalent to Jean-Marie Le Pen. 'Nuff said.
For those wondering who Le Pen is, let's just say he's famous for the same theory made by Veritas -aka immigrant, legal or not, expulsed or stripped of everything- and little comment like saying the gaz chamber during WW2 were a 'detail' of history, or that the German occupation in France 'wasn't that bloody'. For what i've seen for the moment, seems like those two guys could be friends.
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Originally posted by kietotheworld
If he is such a rascist then how did he get into a medium-sized political party
Look at the party he joined! The UKIP is nothing more than the BNP lite. Remember that we're dealing with the same party who hired this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3912205.stm) moron!
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Originally posted by karajorma
Look at the party he joined! The UKIP is nothing more than the BNP lite. Remember that we're dealing with the same party who hired this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3912205.stm) moron!
didn't UKIP also hire a former BNP 'recruiter'?
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Vanitas looks like the end of Kilroy's 'second' political career. He's no more truthful than any of his peers - he would've been out of UKIP ages ago if he really didn't believe in their cause, as opposed to their leadership.
Should've stuck to talk shows, at least he was good at that.
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So, wait...whats the problem with multiculturalism? Is the problem that there's all sorts of new people in your country? Or is the problem that there are all sorts of new people living in your country but that never went through any official channels?
What happens if I wanted to move over there for a year or two? Is that ok or not? :)
That'd be kinda neat actually. Apparently I could even get dual citizenship because of family heritage but thats beside the point. Whats the real issue? I'm a little confused.
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The real issue is:
Country X is traditionally and primarily of X culture. They have their bars, their customs, their dirty hand gestures and so forth. Suddenly, People Y start moving in in large number, legally or otherwise (it really doesn't make too much difference). Suddenly, its not a matter of Culture X and Culture Y existing side by side, but Culture Y is actually supplanting Culture X as the primary national culture.
Like I said, Canada is pretty much unique in the world since its national identity has been defined for almost 50 years by diversity. Its not so much a matter of hating foreign people, as preffering "your people" to any other, which I think is fine.
However, I forsee this becoming less and less of an issue, since the younger generations identify less and less with national idenity in the face of the global village and all that crap. In a hundred years, my guess is that people will think of themselves merely as human, instead of Chinese or Jamaican or whatever.,
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Interesting...good to understand a bit the viewpoint. Is it really the case of British culture being supplanted by other cultures?
The United States is pretty culturally diverse too but they are all supposed to wave the flag and be Americans. That seems to be the way it is.
In Canada its: "Everyone can fly a Canadian flag if you really want to, welcome to the country, I'm sure there's plenty of other people from your own culture you can associate with, but you can come and talk with the rest of us if you really want to."
I guess the thing is that most Canadians are "immigrants" at some point....a seventh generation or first. Its not really true, due to the passage of time, for England. I guess its just different. Canadian culture is everyone elses culture...oh and we try and be real nice too because its so cold during the winter anyways we just want to be warm :D
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Originally posted by IceFire
The United States is pretty culturally diverse too but they are all supposed to wave the flag and be Americans. That seems to be the way it is.
It is and that's fine, as long as they come in legally IE through the official immigration checkpoints and become citizens if they intend to stay permanently. What I don't like is when a group moves in to an area, sets up shop, and recreates the country they left to the exclusion of the surrounding populace.
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I agree with Liberator 100%. In addition it's probably worth noting that the US also has the space and resources to grow to support an enlarged population. England has neither. Our country is already overcrowded and quality of life is dropping accordingly. As a result a lot of people out there are really quite cranky.