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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Night Hammer on February 02, 2005, 02:46:52 pm

Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: Night Hammer on February 02, 2005, 02:46:52 pm
Ive noticed we have a lot of people from nonenglish speaking countries. How are yall so good at typing it and all that? Is it pretty widely taught or what?
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: Nico on February 02, 2005, 03:04:32 pm
I'm just good at english, I guess :p
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: Zarax on February 02, 2005, 03:11:41 pm
English is compulsory/mandatory as second language at least at high school level in EU.
Middle schools also have it in many countries and some basics are taught even in primary school.
Nonetheless the individual proficency is related on how much one uses english and the overall interest in the thing.
My first teacher was my old 286 in 1988 :p then game manuals and dictionary gave me most basis.
High school helped be hone the language and finally daily usage brought me here. :)
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: Andreas on February 02, 2005, 03:58:57 pm
I've been reading english in school since, was it 2nd or 3rd grade? A long, long time ago though, but that doesn't matter unless you are interested in the subject. I guess I'm just a quick learner, I've always considered myself to be pretty damn good at english, so there you go :p
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: Rictor on February 02, 2005, 04:00:20 pm
I can probably speak/write English better than most people who grew up with English as their first language. From Grade 1, I have never gone to anything but an enlish language school, and before that I had a tutor, so speaking English is about as natural as walking.

Actually, I'm starting to fear for my Serbian. Though I speak it at home, I'm starting to forget words and have trouble making coherent sentences at times. Bleh.
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: Genryu on February 02, 2005, 05:28:14 pm
I've been travelling often enough to get a good grasp on the language, plus reading fanfiction :D
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: Ghostavo on February 02, 2005, 05:33:09 pm
*wishes he could express himself at least in one language*
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: mitac on February 02, 2005, 06:07:23 pm
I had like nine years of english courses in school, which was the most you could get back then. This has been increased during the last years, with very basic english courses in primary school, totaling at 13 years of courses, in theory.
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: Swamp_Thing on February 02, 2005, 08:21:15 pm
I speak 4 languages myself. 5 If you include my native tongue. Learned english, french and german in school (but i completelly forgot my german), and the spanish and italian i learned actually living in those countries. I´ve been all over southern Europe.
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: Taristin on February 02, 2005, 08:49:28 pm
...Heh. Some of you speak English so fluently, I would never have thought it was your second language. Amazing.
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: redsniper on February 02, 2005, 09:08:26 pm
despite living here my whole life, I've never managed to learn Texan so I just speak English. :p
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: IceFire on February 02, 2005, 09:59:50 pm
Interesting...see I guess its the immersion in the language that does it.  I for the life of me, despite starting French in grade 4 in public school, have not been able to pick up any French.

But here's the problem: they teach frickin grammar for 7 years and I learned nothing but verb conjugation to which we had no context to associate with anything in the actual language.  So let me ask you guys, whats the best way that you learned English...what did it for you?  Did the grammar really need to be done first or just getting a feel for the language vocabulary was what kick started it?
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: Nico on February 02, 2005, 10:24:43 pm
How I did? well, zarax summed it up neatly.
As for the very start? When, I have memories of " the cat is in the tree" and "the umbrella is yellow".
Yeah, hem, really. It was when I was a kid, probably 6 or 7. I remember when I was in primary school, my mother had me intend after-school classes. it probably helped much, but I do believe that most of my english has been mastered thanks to my old ( 286, wheeeee ) PC, and then later, thanks to internet, mainly HLP, chatting all night long with people like woomeister or killmenow, and the countless anime fansubs, too :p.
I've been watching non-dubbed movies for a while, too.
I'm a strong believer that theory is useful, but can't compare with actually using the language daily. That's why my japanese doesn't improve much, actually, I have nobody to speak/ ICQ-chat japanese with.
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: Rictor on February 02, 2005, 10:30:45 pm
Quote
Originally posted by IceFire
Interesting...see I guess its the immersion in the language that does it.  I for the life of me, despite starting French in grade 4 in public school, have not been able to pick up any French.

But here's the problem: they teach frickin grammar for 7 years and I learned nothing but verb conjugation to which we had no context to associate with anything in the actual language.


Same deal. Damn uppity Quebecois and their inability to conform.

:ick: :ick:
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: Swamp_Thing on February 03, 2005, 02:01:48 am
Quote
Originally posted by IceFire
So let me ask you guys, whats the best way that you learned English...what did it for you?  Did the grammar really need to be done first or just getting a feel for the language vocabulary was what kick started it?


For me, it was basiclly TV and movies, actually. I started to speak english years before i started to learn it in school. Over here movies are not doubled by some half witted voice actor, we get the real thing. After watching thousands of movies with subtitles, you start to connect the dots, per se. At the same time you listen to the actors speak, you read the subtitles and start to get a grasp of syntax and vocabulary. English lessons in school only refined it, the majority of the work was done while sitting on a couch eating popcorn, and watching "The Godfather".
With french it was the same, only to a less extent. Our TV runs 80% english movies and shows, 15% french, and only the remaining 5% are portuguese spoken.
You´ll be hard pressed to find a portuguese guy under 30 and over 10 yrs old that doesn´t speak english, thanks in great part to our TV subtitling way. Compare that to a doubling country, like Spain, where they double every god damn thing (even the songs), and you´ll see a big drop in percentage. It´s not an educational system thing, it´s a cultural thing. You should see/hear the voice they gave Darth Vader...
:ick:
"Tu tienes la Fuerza, Luca!"*
or
"Utiliza la Fuerza, Luca!"*
:p


*For those non-spanish speaking, it means "You have the Force, Luke", and "Use the Force, Luke!"
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: mitac on February 03, 2005, 04:15:24 am
Quote
Originally posted by IceFire
Did the grammar really need to be done first or just getting a feel for the language vocabulary was what kick started it?


I don't really know the grammar of my native language, let alone the english grammar. It's just a feel to use language, either through practical use (Zak McKracken was my best english teacher ever :D) or through consumtion, i.e. books, TV series or movies. That's where a lot of my vocabulary comes from.
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: Cabbie on February 03, 2005, 04:30:59 am
Learned English as a second language here. Half of the subjects taught in my school are in English so that helped a lot.
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: Windrunner on February 03, 2005, 04:42:50 am
Quote
Originally posted by Ai No Koriida
I've been reading english in school since, was it 2nd or 3rd grade? A long, long time ago though, but that doesn't matter unless you are interested in the subject. I guess I'm just a quick learner, I've always considered myself to be pretty damn good at english, so there you go :p


^^^^ There is your answer
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: IceFire on February 03, 2005, 07:52:15 am
So immersion is the way to go :)

I wish we spent more time in French class listening to people speak it and then trying to speak it to ourselves...
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: Tiara on February 03, 2005, 08:01:17 am
Well, WE HAVE SUBTITLES AND NO WRETCHED DUBBING![/u]

:p

But really, that helps A LOT. Children from the youngest age are watching English programs with Dutch subs. Almost every person here litterally despises dubbing.

*looks at the Germans and spits at them for ruining perfectly good shows*

:p

That, and English is a mandatory course from a very low grade (can't remember the exact one).
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: Fury on February 03, 2005, 08:05:17 am
I despise dubbing as well, can't understand germans in that regard at all.

I've found interesting that many people who actually speak english natively have worse spelling and grammar than those who do not speak english natively.

And no, I'm not speaking of Bobboau exclusively.
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: mitac on February 03, 2005, 08:30:55 am
Quote
Originally posted by Tiara
*looks at the Germans and spits at them for ruining perfectly good shows*


:p

Polish TV is worse, and so are other stations in eastern europe. They're dubbing entire movies with one voice actor. Right, the same person for every single word that's spoken. Plus, it's more like reading a book, very monotonous.

From that point of view, I'm pretty happy with our dubbing. ;)
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: kasperl on February 03, 2005, 08:46:23 am
T: Groep 7, but only a few schools actually bother fulfilling the requirements. Secondary schools have on hell of a time working the kids back up to a normal level at the end of the freshmen year.  

Anyway, my English comes from computer usage, TV, music, and mostly experience. If someone bothers to look up my oldest posts here, well, you'll see that there's been some improvement along the way.
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: Tiara on February 03, 2005, 08:50:14 am
Quote
Originally posted by kasperl
T: Groep 7, but only a few schools actually bother fulfilling the requirements. Secondary schools have on hell of a time working the kids back up to a normal level at the end of the freshmen year.  
[/b]
I got English at groep 4 :wtf: And most people I know, including my own students, also started with Englishes courses around groep 4 to 7.
Title: Re: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: kode on February 03, 2005, 10:29:20 am
Quote
Originally posted by Night Hammer
Ive noticed we have a lot of people from nonenglish speaking countries. How are yall so good at typing it and all that? Is it pretty widely taught or what?


I'd say anyone younger than ~75 knows english to some degree. if you're in the academic world, you _need_ to be fluent in it. english's like a second native language to me (at least the reading/writing is, I tend to speak it in riddles). they teach it in school from the age of 10 up to the levels where you can choose exactly what you want to study (uni level, that is). of course they teach it at uni too, only you don't have to.

all non-swedish programs are subbed, except the kiddie shows, because they're usually german and we dub that crap.

when I get kids I'll **** them up socially by only talking in english to them.
Title: Re: Re: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: Nico on February 03, 2005, 10:52:26 am
Quote
Originally posted by kode


I'd say anyone younger than ~75 knows english to some degree. if you're in the academic world, you _need_ to be fluent in it.  


you're dreaming for the first point, and you're wrong for the second. Why do you NEED to know english? Why would the thousand million people in the world who are teachers, artisans or whatever would need to be fluent in english? I don't think France is particularly retarded in regard to foreign langauges ( darn, now they teach english in primary school, and plan to extend that to a second language ), but I think at least 4 out of 5 people here are not able to understand a word when they're listening to an english speaker. Coz most just don't bother, since, heh, they won't need it.
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: Primus on February 03, 2005, 11:05:57 am
They start teaching english in 3rd grade here at my country..
But the best english teacher is TV and music, especially rap music :lol:
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: vyper on February 03, 2005, 11:07:33 am
And the arrogance of the French makes me like Yanks more each day... :lol:

Sorry, couldn't resist. *leaves thread*
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: Flipside on February 03, 2005, 11:14:27 am
Thing is, we need a common language, it's part of building a common identity. I wouldn't really have minded if it wasn't English, but I'll admit, it makes my life easier ;)

Just as England has it's problem with Immigration and absorbing the fact that the world isn't the divided place it used to be (instad, it's the divided place it is now) so will other countries have to let go of similar 'centralisms' if we are to have any hope of building relations with each other.
Title: Re: Re: Re: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: kode on February 03, 2005, 11:39:25 am
Quote
Originally posted by Nico

 Why do you NEED to know english?  


well, I suppose you don't have to understand course litterature for one?
85% of it is in english over here. I guess I just foolishly assumed people actually read their course litterature, just because I do.
100% of the final papers are in english.

satisfied?
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: kode on February 03, 2005, 11:40:15 am
Quote
Originally posted by vyper
And the arrogance of the French makes me like Yanks more each day... :lol:

Sorry, couldn't resist. *leaves thread*


word.
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: Taristin on February 03, 2005, 11:56:35 am
Quote
Originally posted by vyper
And the arrogance of the French makes me like Yanks more each day... :lol:

Sorry, couldn't resist. *leaves thread*


I can't tell who you're insulting with that one. :p
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: Nico on February 03, 2005, 11:58:58 am
Quote
Originally posted by vyper
And the arrogance of the French makes me like Yanks more each day... :lol:  


:blah: what did I say now?

Quote
Originally posted by kode
well, I suppose you don't have to understand course litterature for one?
85% of it is in english over here. I guess I just foolishly assumed people actually read their course litterature, just because I do.
100% of the final papers are in english.


Mmh? Courses are in english when it's an english course. litterature is in french, why should it be in english? Now, what you foolishly assumed, is that coz you do your courses in englsh in swede, other countries do too :doubt:
My courses are in english, but that's coz I'm doing an english license ( some degree, won't tell you anything I suppose ).

Bah, why should I care anyway.
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: kode on February 03, 2005, 12:21:29 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Nico

Mmh? Courses are in english when it's an english course. litterature is in french, why should it be in english? Now, what you foolishly assumed, is that coz you do your courses in englsh in swede, other countries do too :doubt:
My courses are in english, but that's coz I'm doing an english license ( some degree, won't tell you anything I suppose ).

Bah, why should I care anyway.


actually it was you that assumed weird **** when I was in fact talking about the situation in sweden. but then, you seemed so darn knowledgeable in how it is in sweden so...

also, what are you trying to say in the middle of the post I quoted? I foolishly assumed that "coz" I do my courses in "englsh" in "swede", other countries do too? I didn't know I was a country, neither did I know I was talking about any other country than sweden the whole time.
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: Night Hammer on February 03, 2005, 12:20:40 pm
Quote
Originally posted by redsniper
despite living here my whole life, I've never managed to learn Texan so I just speak English. :p


hehe, not sure if that counts....:p
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: Goober5000 on February 03, 2005, 02:25:19 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Mr. Fury
I've found interesting that many people who actually speak english natively have worse spelling and grammar than those who do not speak english natively.
Indeed.  This tends to annoy those of us who do know how to spell... and I suppose it isn't too helpful for those learning English either. :sigh:

;)
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: Flipside on February 03, 2005, 02:27:56 pm
The worst part is, in a lot of cases for me, the bad spellings are typos that I can't be bothered to correct :nervous:
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: Night Hammer on February 03, 2005, 02:31:02 pm
i just make typos and grammar errors so Goob's life can have meaning:p
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: Goober5000 on February 03, 2005, 02:59:10 pm
:lol:
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: TopAce on February 04, 2005, 06:40:20 am
Night Hammer is right at English is so widely-taught. It will only take a matter of decades until it becomes even more popular and better-spoken. It has become the language of the internet, thereby making it more popular and making it more important and straightforward to learn. I think its because the Great Britain: They made English spread, they colonised a large part of the American continent(Now they are called the United States and Canada), Australians are also the decendants of the British: They were the Brittons who colonised that island as well. I dare say if the Portugese or the Spanish were quicker in going to North America and the main language of the USA would be Spanish or Portugese and if it had happened, Spanish or Portugese would have become the 'main' secondary language.
I somehow find it lucky that English became the most important language; Spanish must be harder. And what makes me think that Spanish is hard? I learn Italian and Spanish is close to Italian in grammar and vocabulary. English has simple grammar if you do not intend to make complicated sentences or learn it perfectly to speak like the natives.
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: Goober5000 on February 04, 2005, 02:45:42 pm
Quote
Originally posted by TopAce
I think its because the Great Britain: They made English spread, they colonised a large part of the American continent(Now they are called the United States and Canada), Australians are also the decendants of the British: They were the Brittons who colonised that island as well. I dare say if the Portugese or the Spanish were quicker in going to North America and the main language of the USA would be Spanish or Portugese and if it had happened, Spanish or Portugese would have become the 'main' secondary language.
Yeah, I wonder about that too sometimes.
Quote
I somehow find it lucky that English became the most important language; Spanish must be harder. And what makes me think that Spanish is hard? I learn Italian and Spanish is close to Italian in grammar and vocabulary. English has simple grammar if you do not intend to make complicated sentences or learn it perfectly to speak like the natives.
You think so?  That's interesting.  I learned both Spanish and French in school and French came much more easily to me.  It seemed to "make more sense".  But I would think that English would be harder than either French or Spanish.
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: TopAce on February 04, 2005, 02:52:45 pm
I have heard that French is hard. Maybe for Hungarians, French is hard, maybe for English people, French is easier. I don't know this for sure, but I am more than certain that an Italian would find English vocabulary easier to learn.
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: Zarax on February 04, 2005, 03:01:48 pm
Not really.
If you come from Italian, french or spanish as first language you'll find the basic english grammar far easier to understand.
The biggest problem with english is the sometimes huge difference in how written words are spoken.
Especially Italians like me tend to have great pronounce difficulties because we're used to speak exactly the same way we read.
Phonetically speaking Italian is almost 100%  coincident with the written word.
French and spanish are not as accurate, especially the former, which is "closer" to english due to common roots (both after all are a mix of latin and ancient german vulgata) but both sill with far easier phonetics.

Edit: was a reply to Goob :)
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: TopAce on February 04, 2005, 03:06:17 pm
I thought vocabulary makes it easier for you to understand. Just look at the following verbs:

arrivare; incontrare; dipendere; partire; accompagnare. I could list more if it weren't 10PM.
Edit: sent before you finished editing, Zarax. :)
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: Zarax on February 04, 2005, 03:11:40 pm
Quote
Originally posted by TopAce
I thought vocabulary makes it easier for you to understand. Just look at the following verbs:

arrivare; incontrare; dipendere; partire; accompagnare. I could list more if it weren't 10PM.
Edit: sent before you finished editing, Zarax. :)


I'm not sure what do you mean, the vocabulary might be a bit simpler but when it comes out to grammar english is far easier than Italian.
Title: A question for all non-english speaking people?
Post by: TopAce on February 04, 2005, 03:11:27 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Zarax


I'm not sure what do you mean, the vocabulary might be a bit simpler but when it comes out to grammar english is far easier than Italian.


Yes, haven't I said the same that English is easier than Italian?

Why isn't this post below Zarax's?