Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: Omniscaper on February 05, 2005, 04:06:14 am
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I was surprise it even converted with Styxx's 3dsmax pluggin. I got board and decided to convert my reference model of the BSG.
(http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/images/BSGTest.jpg)
(http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/images/BSGTest2.jpg)
(http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/images/BSGTest3.jpg)
(http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/images/BSGTest4.jpg)
(http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/images/BSGTest5.jpg)
(http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/images/BSGTest6.jpg)
My Computer specs are:
Dual 2.66ghz Xeon cpus
1gb pc2100
Geforce 6600gt 128mb
Audigy 2
DDS textures helped alot in this case. The TGA's caused a 5 minute load time. It reduced it to ~ 1 min.
Most of the polyo are in the model's smoothing and tech details. If the SCP engine can tackle this beast with only a 50% fps reduction, why am I limiting MY Galactica model to 15k?
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And with the same vid card as me... :nervous:
Although it needs turrets, and (for FS anyway) some of that detail should probably go towards hull detail rather than smoothing.
Stilll...I'm impressed.
Is there any significant difference with two?
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Though the game was specifically written for dual cpu rigs, the second cpu does free up FS2 to hog all CPU power of the other. When I play games like doom and Halflife, now FS2-SCP, I assign the game "realtime" priority on a single CPU and set the program only use that one. The other takes care of windows stuffs I guess. I do get a performance boost but not a significant one.
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an avergare of 50 frames with only two ships on screen tho... have a little fight around it and I'm afraid it's gonna drop more than significantely...
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Actually there are 8 raiders and 3 more vipers in the landing bay, not to mention I have v-sync enabled along with antialiasing set to 4x
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Check your PMs Omni
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Check my PM's? for what? Nude picture of Natalie Portman?
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Crikey...it's beautiful.
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Turned off antialiasing and v-sync... 60FPS!!!
(http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/images/BSGTest7.jpg)
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Originally posted by Omniscaper
Most of the polyo are in the model's smoothing and tech details. If the SCP engine can tackle this beast with only a 50% fps reduction, why am I limiting MY Galactica model to 15k?
Because there is a difference between what you can do and what you should do.
Most other people don't have dual CPUs.
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It's still fracking impressive.
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Originally posted by Inquisitor
It's still fracking impressive.
:nod: Not denying that.
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God that's gorgeous. And truly collossal looking, too, melikey :)
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let me know if you need help animating the landing bays.
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Impressive enough for me to brag about it:
http://www.garagegames.com/blogs/1882/7124
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I assume the model must be made up of several large subobjects then cause from what I understood the hard limit was 25,000 polys per subobject.
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Holy f'ing ****e...
My roommate called that a beating stick. And he was *right*. My computer would choke on that in a heartbeat.
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Originally posted by Inquisitor
Impressive enough for me to brag about it:
http://www.garagegames.com/blogs/1882/7124
Hilarious typo there. "Freespace 2 Scource Code Project"
And you forgot "e" from "one". ;)
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Yah yah. I hadn't had much coffee when I posted that.
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the limit is 21845 points, per texture, per subobject. this limit is imposed by our use of 16 bit index buffers
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if there are places with lots of detail that you would only see relitively close by, breake them into subobjects and call me
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Thats USEFULL info. So subobjects should not exceed 20k polys. Same with material assignments? Ok..... enter my new goal.... a 80k model!!!
::maniacle laughter:: I just want to see the code ride the limits!
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actualy now that I think of it, that's not right, it's 65536 verts per texture per subobject (actualy it might just be per subobject, I think we might be useing just one vertex buffer per object and splitting up the index buffer now)
there realy isn't a poly limit of any kind you can have as many polygons as you want so long as you define them within 3 of 65536 verts
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Let me do some experimenting here. So should I limit subobject poly's to 60k or 20k? Or is the material polygon assignments should be limited?
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That is one of the most amazing things I've seen this game engine do. Someone dare to tell me that isn't a movie-quality shot. :D
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you know I'm not even sure anymore, feel free to try to break it though
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I don't want to take away from it, it is very nice, but for 50,000+ polies I would have expected all the ridges, major hull details, and the deck guns to be modeled.
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I'd like to know limits because I am modelling the Galactica at the moment. I'd like to know if the amount of ribbing I'm gonna put in can be successfully converted.
However modeled that Galactica wasted so much polygons on curvature. I know better. If this is gonna be high poly, I'm putting it where it counts.
With the Trek models, I've never seen a model break the 15k mark. So this is just an experiment on polygon limits.
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Now we need normalmapping. ;7
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Isn't there a way to implement bump-mapping without the use of pixel shaders? Bob?
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:lol:
eh... no
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Wait a minute, I recall the days before graphics cards had pixel shaders (Riva-TNT, Rage 3d, Voodoo 3) there was an "emboss" type of bump-mapping. Games like "Expendable" used such a thing. And after that when the Geforce 2 GTS came out (no pixel shaders there) games like Giants:Citizen Kabuto used a form of bumpmapping.
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still requiers vertex shaders
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Well its lookin great, but rememeber OMNI not everyone got ur uber pc specs.
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Riva TNT, GF1 or GF2 can hardly be considered as über.
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Omni's specs:
Dual 2.66ghz Xeon cpus
1gb pc2100
Geforce 6600gt 128mb
that's prety ubber
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oh, and Omni could you load that up int this build (http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/blackwater/fs2_open_r_sf1.zip) and tell me if it runs faster or slower. it should run signifigantly faster, but it might be slower
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Originally posted by Omniscaper
Wait a minute, I recall the days before graphics cards had pixel shaders (Riva-TNT, Rage 3d, Voodoo 3) there was an "emboss" type of bump-mapping. Games like "Expendable" used such a thing. And after that when the Geforce 2 GTS came out (no pixel shaders there) games like Giants:Citizen Kabuto used a form of bumpmapping.
those were software shaders i believe. from the days before htl. polycounts werent excessive and so software shaders could be used without a big slowdown. i think htl needs hardware shaders to work at a decent framerate.
giants was a cool game and i remember the shader effects well. thats the first game i remember seeing that had any form of bumpmapping. of course it was only the second game i remember playing that had env mapping. the game was somethign else, big open areas, decent graphics, and it was ****ihng halarious. did descent 3 have bumpmapping? i remember some textures in the game had a bumpy look but it coulda just been fancy texturing tricks.
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Just a note:
Games do NOT benefit from dual cpu's unless SPECIFICALLY written for such a rig. Quake 3, I believe is the ONLY PC game that has SMP (single-multi processor) support.
Game-wise, my system can easily be smoked by a single 2.66ghz Pentium 4, with a 800mhz bus, and faster memory speed of a PC3200.
Xeon's are NOT designed for realtime application efficiency such as games. They are used to enhance server tasks and render crunching (video editing, 3d rendering, and effects rendering). So don't try to race me on that department unless you got a faster Xeon.
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I still say that's prety ubber.
and test that build damnit!
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Its hard to say if its running faster or slower. With the regular build, I was able to get 120 fps with no AA or vertical sync with galactica by itself. What did you attempt to do (besides kill shine maps)?
I do find it strange that in both builds I get more fps reduction when there are 5 fighters on screen (1800 polys each) than a single 50k Galactica. The screenshot below would be running 120 fps without the Vipers on screen.
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(http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/staff_images/Galactica/BSGTest8.jpg)
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Current build (disabled specular to make it fair)
(http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/staff_images/Galactica/BSGTest10.jpg)
Your provided build
(http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/staff_images/Galactica/BSGTest9.jpg)
Got a boost of 7 fps. Activating Speculars in the current build drops framrate to 42 fps. Its progress nontheless.
BUT LOOK AT IT. Thats a total of 300k polys your looking at! Now I'm realy baffled. The screen with the Vipers have a total of 50k (BSG) + 14k (7x Vipers).
Thats 64k running SLOWER than a a screen with 300k. Perhaps its an AI thing stealing CPU cycles?
Made tweaked spec maps.... purdy 120 fps of Galactica!
(http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/staff_images/Galactica/BsgTestB.jpg)
(http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/staff_images/Galactica/BsgTestA.jpg)
NOTE: This will NOT be used in the BSG Project. 50k is a bit too much considering the FPS drop caused by the fighters. But it is the reference model I'm using to build a 15-18k version which will use the SAME texture base (will uberize) which come from the ZOIC's (BSG's chosen animation studio) renders.
This model was made by "MadJohn" for a BSG ship pack for Bridge Commander.
http://bridgecommander.filefront.com/file/Reinvisioned_Galactica_Ship_Pack;36087
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But me wants it!
:eek:
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hmm, that build I posted KILLS shinemaps?
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Well, it kills the feature, not the actuall textures.
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I don't supose you'd be able to tell me what the MaxSimultaneousTextures device cap is on your card?
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How do I find that info out?
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It's 8 simultaneous textures.
Some other infos:
MaxTexture: 4096x4096
MaxAnisotropy: 16
MaxTextureBlendStages: 8
MaxActiveLights: 8
MaxStreams: 16
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well then that isn't it... /*puzzeled*/
the thing is that build is suposed to fix shinemaps on the radeon cards. and it has 1/3rd the render passes, so it should be quite fast as well... hmmm I heard that nVidia cards had odd VS suport
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Technical glitches aside, that still looks fantastic.
I mean FANTASTIC.
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Bob, I tried the build on a different computer with a Radeon 9500 pro. It fixed the shine mapping on that computer. Kills it for my nvidia.
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:lol: seems that we've got round 2 of the graphics card wars...
My highly uneducated guess is that either the AI or the engine glows is killing performace, as your galacticas don't seem to have them. It'd be interesting to put engine glows on the galacticas/remove them on fighters, or change them back to FS2 defaults, and see what the difference is.
Great job here omni, and I want to see modeled ribs ;) :yes:
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I must say this is outstanding work Omniscaper. :)
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Danka
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I think this means that FS2 is now ATI ONLY LMAO! but yea i noticed that about the PCs specs nowadays.
so i think most pcs in todays standards can run efficently.
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It better not be. I bought my Geforce just to get shinies back on my FSO.
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Originally posted by Anaz
:lol: seems that we've got round 2 of the graphics card wars...
My highly uneducated guess is that either the AI or the engine glows is killing performace, as your galacticas don't seem to have them. It'd be interesting to put engine glows on the galacticas/remove them on fighters, or change them back to FS2 defaults, and see what the difference is.
Great job here omni, and I want to see modeled ribs ;) :yes:
IMHO that isn't likely. The thruster graphics aren't really different from the rest of the effects - just a texture rescaled it shouldn't be a performance hit.
What truely benches my system are the ani-files. Though strangely I can manage Lighty's ani-glow's fine, while the smoking particle ani truely knocks the air out of my poor card.
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Wow, slow to spot this. Awesome... amazing what FSO's capable of these days.
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It also shows how a well-made shine-map can almost take the place of a bump-map.
It still amazes me that FS2's shine capabilities are beyond those of 3DS Max & Lightwave, which can only use a greyscale. In a way, you've actually found a very fast way of doing radiosity... which is pretty stunning!
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Since when does 3DS only use it's shine maps in greyscale? :wtf:
I get specular reflections of the colour of the shinemap... Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean.
Edit: This post was supposed to be after flipside's.
Wretched Gamespy... No... scratch that... ƒucking gamespy...
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It means the scale of the colour defines how intense the specular is, but not what colour. So if you have a specmap on a Red surface, you could have levels of 'shininess' but always based on the texture colour. The SCP allows you to apply different specular colours to texture, so you can get effects like irridescence without using shaders etc :)
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Ahh. Because Max gives you two fields, though. Specular and specular level. Or something of the sort.
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Specular color and specular level I believe.
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AFIK you can achieve that in Max by tweaking the material setting - I seem to recall fields that detailed what color the different lights would be.
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Omni: by all logic the FS engine should have popped up a middle finger icon on your desktop when you tried to load the game.
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That's a good idea, Carl, I may implement that.
Does anybody have a POF I could test with? :p
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LOL I'm sure it would only be a short job in Poser ;)
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ah, oops, thought thrusters worked differently than they did.
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Mwahahahahaha!!!
(http://www.aqsx85.dsl.pipex.com/FingerOfDoom.jpg)
http://www.aqsx85.dsl.pipex.com/FingerODoom.zip
Sorry, I just had to.....
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*dies*
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hehehehe That comes with Lods as well, Lord alone knows why I did those... :wtf:
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wow
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:lol:
now all we need is a giant deathsphere/vaccuum cleaner. i guess with bob's triggered animations it could work.
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Originally posted by Flipside
hehehehe That comes with Lods as well, Lord alone knows why I did those... :wtf:
*dies again*
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Oh god... LODs too... and even shine maps... :lol: :lol:
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Why.
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Hey, I'm the kinda guy who likes to help out, and it was a coder-request... :nervous:
Anyway, if'n you want it, grab it, it'll probably be gone by this time tomorrow, so consider it Limited Edition ;)
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You should make a version that "takes advantage" of Bob's animation code... if ya know what I mean.;7
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I WANT!
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Originally posted by WMCoolmon
Oh god... LODs too... and even shine maps... :lol: :lol:
Well, it had to look good for it's debut, besides, that just one of my own stock textures, so I make the shine maps at the same time :D