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General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Kie99 on February 05, 2005, 09:43:53 am

Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Kie99 on February 05, 2005, 09:43:53 am
Who would win, setting is 5 years after Capella.  Both sides have built up there fleets to what they were before the NTF rebellion.
Terrans have Alpha 1.
THe VAsudans don't have any FREDders.
Need I say more?
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Black Wolf on February 05, 2005, 09:52:16 am
I predict a 14 year stalemate eventually broken by the arrival of a hostile alien species that will force the Terrans and Vasudans to work together to defeat it.
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: vyper on February 05, 2005, 09:54:00 am
What BW said.
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: DIO on February 05, 2005, 10:10:20 am
What?:wtf:
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Unknown Target on February 05, 2005, 10:12:24 am
Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer. :p
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Mr_Maniac on February 05, 2005, 10:13:07 am
And if not, the war would never end, or both races will be wiped out...
No survivers...
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Primus on February 05, 2005, 10:20:31 am
Well, Terrans have Alpha 1.. No need to say more ;)
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Roanoke on February 05, 2005, 10:28:56 am
The Vasudans have the FREDers...need I say more ?
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Kie99 on February 05, 2005, 10:30:07 am
Read the post!
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Charismatic on February 05, 2005, 11:24:20 am
vasudans Dont have fredders..
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: MatthewPapa on February 05, 2005, 11:55:28 am
I choose GTA bevause they came up with the avenger cannon which would have thrown the balance of the war in their favor.
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Unknown Target on February 05, 2005, 12:15:51 pm
I choose the snufflewufflegus. It's soft, plushy exterior shall prove the deciding factor in any conflict.
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Night Hammer on February 05, 2005, 12:22:33 pm
id say the vasudans would win, hatshesput is just so much better than the hecate:p
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Fergus on February 05, 2005, 12:43:34 pm
They would fight for 80 years, the EA would get bored, appear, kill everything, laugh for two days, then the Shivans arrive, apologise for the delay and procede to wipe everyone out.  Alpha 1 dies of rubbish missions.
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Nuclear1 on February 05, 2005, 01:07:50 pm
I'd say a Terran admiral declares all Vasudans criminals, goes out and kills a whole bunch of them, then uses some crazy information to open a jump node to Sol, therefore unleashing the EA invasion of the core systems. Terrans use Meson bomb to kill not only the EA fleet but Alpha 1 as well.

EA flagship uses wacky-ass subspace weapon to cause Vasuda Prime to completely go kerr-plooey, then bear down on Beta Aquilae. GTA blows the nodes, leaving them trapped in Beta Aquilae. Shivans show up, laugh their asses off, wipe out EA, destroy Earth, then laugh more at the idiot GTA getting itself locked into a single system.
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Kie99 on February 05, 2005, 01:44:22 pm
This isn't Inferno!  There is no node to Sol.
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Nuclear1 on February 05, 2005, 02:01:48 pm
*hands kietotheworld his melted detector*

If you couldn't see the sarcasm in that post... :D
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Taristin on February 05, 2005, 02:23:24 pm
What an incredibly stupid thread.














We all know the Vasudans are Superior. That's why they were fighting the Shivans when the Terrans were killing themselves.
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Kie99 on February 05, 2005, 02:40:39 pm
Vasudan Destroyers>>>>>>>Terran Destroyers
Terran Fighters>>>>>>>>>Vasudan Fighters
Terran Bombers>>>>>>>>>Vasudan Bombers
Terran Cruisers>>>>>>>>>Vasudan Cruisers
Terran Corvettes>>>>>>>>Vasudan Corvettes

The Vasudans would have lots of Destroyers with escort, the fighter escort would be destroyed by multiple wings of Erinyes and Ares class fighters, 3 Mentus and 4 Atens would be destroyed by 4 Aeolus cruisers. The sobeks would be absolutely annihilated by deimoses and then bombers would take down the Hatshepsut while it is attempting to send out escape pods.

BTW nuke, you weren't the only one talking about the EA.  If the Sol node was opened it would be a good thing for the terrans, the EA or whatever they'd be called would surely want to help the GTA fight the PVN.
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Taristin on February 05, 2005, 03:01:31 pm
Quote
Originally posted by kietotheworld
Vasudan Destroyers>>>>>>>Terran Destroyers
Terran Fighters>>>>>>>>>Vasudan Fighters
Terran Bombers>>>>>>>>>Vasudan Bombers
Terran Cruisers>>>>>>>>>Vasudan Cruisers
Terran Corvettes>>>>>>>>Vasudan Corvettes


Your first point is right, but the remaining aren't. The Terrans have alot more variety in their fleet, but the Vasudan ones are better.
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Kie99 on February 05, 2005, 03:20:40 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Raa
The Terrans have alot more variety in their fleet, but the Vasudan ones are better.


Terran Fighters: 9
Vasudan Fighters 5

I'm confident that any FS2 era fighter can beat any Vasudan fighter

Terran Bombers: 6
Vasudan Bombers:3

Boanagres(sp?) and Ursa = High payload death machines. Bakha and Sekhmet Excellent ships.  As heavy assault fighters!

Terran Cruisers: 3
Vasudan Cruisers: 2

A Fenris can kill an Aten with no problems
An Aeolus can own a Mentu so badly its not even funny.

Terran Corvettes:2 (Iceni and Deimos)
Vasudan Corvettes:1

Either terran corvette could destroy the sobek with no problems.

The destroyers would then be on their own with no escort.  Couple of Trebuchets and Stillettos to the engines, then an Iceni jumps in behing it and slowly destroys it.
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: TopAce on February 05, 2005, 03:31:18 pm
The GTA would win, they have better fighters and bombers.
Title: Re: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: pyro-manic on February 05, 2005, 03:55:45 pm
Quote
Originally posted by kietotheworld
Who would win, setting is 5 years after Capella.  Both sides have built up there fleets to what they were before the NTF rebellion.
Terrans have Alpha 1.
THe VAsudans don't have any FREDders.
Need I say more?



:wtf:


:blah:
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: TrashMan on February 05, 2005, 04:06:20 pm
Quote
Originally posted by kietotheworld
Vasudan Destroyers>>>>>>>Terran Destroyers


HELOOOO?
The Orion would pawn any other destroyer... most firepower
The Hatesputh is the second best destroyer out there
Hecates can only kill something if it's parked right infront of htem and is standing still
Typhons have 1 beam cannon...need I say more?
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: IceFire on February 05, 2005, 04:59:16 pm
It seems like the stalemate between the GTA and PVN would eventually be broken.  I think it sounded like the PVN was a corrupt organization using the war to stay afloat within the Vasudan people.  There probably was some trouble with the GTA as well (the GTI situation is just as indicative as the HoL situation) but I think the PVN woud probably have fallen in the wake of internal dissention and some advances on the GTA side.

The GTA did after all have a shield prototype under construction at GTI Rivera (probably years away from completion) and the Avenger cannon was a big thing that they pushed through pretty quickly once the Shivans arrived.

Seems like the GTA's cruisers were better than the PVN's cruisers but that the Typhon was a better destroyer than the Orions at the time and presumably the PVN had more Typhons than the GTA did Orions.
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: TrashMan on February 05, 2005, 05:11:44 pm
It said that it destroyed the Eisenhower and the 4th fleet when it fist appeared (it wasn't attacking alone)

It never said the Typhoon was better than an Orion.
It never said if it was an ambush or if the GTVA captain was just too overconfident seing hte Athen

Purely statisticly (Fs1 stats of both ships) the Orion would win. I tried it....
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: neo_hermes on February 05, 2005, 05:24:47 pm
GTA would win :yes:
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Taristin on February 05, 2005, 05:44:26 pm
Quote
Originally posted by IceFire
It seems like the stalemate between the GTA and PVN would eventually be broken.  I think it sounded like the PVN was a corrupt organization using the war to stay afloat within the Vasudan people.  There probably was some trouble with the GTA as well (the GTI situation is just as indicative as the HoL situation) but I think the PVN woud probably have fallen in the wake of internal dissention and some advances on the GTA side.
The GTA lost alot of pilots after the utter failure known as Operation Thresher. More than the Vasudans.

 
Quote

The GTA did after all have a shield prototype under construction at GTI Rivera (probably years away from completion) and the Avenger cannon was a big thing that they pushed through pretty quickly once the Shivans arrived.
The shield prototype would have given an advantage for... what, 3 months? Until the Vasudans copied it, or were leaked schematics by Terrans under Vasudan control in the GTA? The Avenger only succeeded as well as it did, because of the joint cooperation between the species. I'm sure that both were producing them at the height of the war, because the Vasudans wouldn't entrust the Terrans with making that laser exclusively for both. I know I wouldn't trust an enemy of 14 years to give me a proper working laser.
Quote


Seems like the GTA's cruisers were better than the PVN's cruisers but that the Typhon was a better destroyer than the Orions at the time and presumably the PVN had more Typhons than the GTA did Orions.


The cruisers may have been better, but the Vasudans were more willing to Kamikaze than the Terrans. The Vasudan fightercraft at the height of the war were also better. Ignoring the Anubis, of course.
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: TrashMan on February 05, 2005, 06:31:45 pm
Horus and Seth rocked!
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Taristin on February 05, 2005, 06:48:07 pm
The Thoth is a hard target to hit on higher difficulties, as well. :)
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Night Hammer on February 05, 2005, 07:05:34 pm
the horus matches up well with the perseus let alone any FS1 era interceptors
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Janos on February 05, 2005, 07:12:18 pm
GTA. Vasudans are stagnat whereas Terrans are not. Plus GTA has better equipment.
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Taristin on February 05, 2005, 07:26:58 pm
You don't know that the Vasudans are Stagnant, though. We only know what Alpha 1 encounterred. Who's to say there weren't atleast a dozen other fighter designs out there?
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Ace on February 05, 2005, 11:30:37 pm
This is a toughie.

The GTA had failure after failure in the war. The VPE was a corrupt institution. Both were effectively bankrupt, with their tattered economies propped up from collapse by the war.

The Vasudans seem to have fewer but better developed systems. Military wise they seem to have a lot of cannon-fodder craft with a handful of powerful ships to command the battlefield. The Terrans seem to have a more balanced fleet doctrine.

Use of very nasty weapons on planets seems to be common, as harbingers and their Vasudan equivalents were used in bombardment. Probably this devastation from a sorched earth policy is one of the causes for the economies being so badly off.

The GTI was basing a lot of Terran advances off of Shivan technology, so without this the edge the Terrans were gaining technologically would have not existed. The Ross 128 deflector array or even the Avenger may have been based off recovered Shivan technologies.

Without the Shivans to show up, both species would have probably annihilated each other.

With the Shivan technology available but no invasion, the GTI would have had a successful Hades rebellion and would have seized both the GTA and VPE if they didn't unite.
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Andreas on February 06, 2005, 03:45:47 am
I've always thought that the Vasudans had a larger fleet then the GTA, relying more on cheaper and fast-to-produce designs like the PVF Anubis and the PVC Aten to do most of the fighting, while the more advanced designs (such as the Seth and Horus) would be granted to use on elite-units, operating out of destroyers such as the PVD Hope.

As such, the PVN would most likely be formed of large partion of conscripts (kamikazes) rather than more trained and skilled crew, operating on destroyers and such.

GTA League of Defense would on the other hand, be a very highly-trained, professional army, relying more on the skill of the pilots and the general high-quality of their designs rather than numbers, meaning that their fleet would be smaller in size compared to the PVN.

And as for the Battle of Vega (:D ) in 2333, the 4th fleet was mostly likely ambushed by, say those elite Vasudan units, using bombers, advanced fighters designs and of course, the Typhon. Plus, the Vasudans had the element of surprise in this battle, since the GTA underestimated the power of the PVD Typhon.
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Nico on February 06, 2005, 04:55:33 am
Quote
Originally posted by Raa
 The shield prototype would have given an advantage for... what, 3 months? Until the Vasudans copied it


Like inversed engineering is that simple to achieve.
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Black Wolf on February 06, 2005, 07:48:56 am
Quote
Originally posted by Nico


Like inversed engineering is that simple to achieve.


Reverse engineering, and the TVs managed it from Shivan tech within a very short period - reverse engineering from a species who's technology you'd been analyzing for years (presumably) would be a comparatively simple matter I'd expect.
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Taristin on February 06, 2005, 07:50:45 am
Quote the rest of the sentence before ripping it apart. :doubt:

Like a war with the Shivans would end in 3 months.
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Ransom on February 06, 2005, 08:19:59 am
If it weren't for snufflewufflegus, the Vasudans would be on teh winz. Cause the Vasudans are cooler, but not cooler than snufflewufflegus.
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Kie99 on February 06, 2005, 08:49:28 am
Clarification:
This thread is not what would have happened if the Shivans had never arrived, it is set 5 years after "The Capella Incident"
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Taristin on February 06, 2005, 08:54:10 am
But then, there would be no GTA and PVN. Since both dissolved after the Great War.
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Andreas on February 06, 2005, 09:31:43 am
Quote
Originally posted by Raa
But then, there would be no GTA and PVN. Since both dissolved after the Great War.

Snufflewufflegus win :D:yes:
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Kie99 on February 06, 2005, 09:52:15 am
They went to war and renamed themselves.

WTF are the snufflewuggs? :wtf: and who added them to the poll?
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: DIO on February 06, 2005, 10:00:06 am
Quote
Originally posted by kietotheworld
They went to war and renamed themselves.


Why would they want to go into war?
Why would Khonsu II want to go back to the old parliament style?
What's the point in this poll?
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Kie99 on February 06, 2005, 10:06:02 am
For God's sake what is the point of any poll, most of the biggest thread's on the forums are absolutely pointless.
You can call the Vasudan Fleet whatever you want.
They went into war because the Vasudans blamed Terran arrogance for all the deaths in the 2nd Great War.
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Lightspeed on February 06, 2005, 10:40:25 am
The terrans would win.

For some reason, :v: decided to give the Vasudans only comparatively crappy fighters in FS2.
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Admiral Nelson on February 06, 2005, 10:44:14 am
Out of curiosity, is it actually stated anywhere that the GTD Eisenhower was an Orion, and not an example of an older DD class unseen in FS1?
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Taristin on February 06, 2005, 10:48:55 am
Quote
Originally posted by Ai No Koriida

Snufflewufflegus win :D:yes:



No! Not Fair! I wasted a vote on the Vasudans.....!


*wonders who added that option*
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Andreas on February 06, 2005, 10:55:13 am
Quote
Originally posted by Admiral Nelson
Out of curiosity, is it actually stated anywhere that the GTD Eisenhower was an Orion, and not an example of an older DD class unseen in FS1?

It's not stated, and yes, it could be something else than an Orion, but as far as canon goes, it is an Orion (since no other destroyer classes are mentioned).
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: pyro-manic on February 06, 2005, 11:28:35 am
Valiant..... :nervous:

*gets coshed and dragged into the shadows*
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: vyper on February 06, 2005, 11:30:10 am
Snuffleupagus has been appearing lots lately. I suspect.... Goob :p
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: DIO on February 06, 2005, 12:02:17 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Lightspeed
The terrans would win.

For some reason, :v: decided to give the Vasudans only comparatively crappy fighters in FS2.


???
Which Vausdan fighter is crap?

Serapis pwnzors Myrmidon, Tauret pwnzors Herc II, Horus pwnzors Perseus and Bakha and Sekhmet pwnzors Boanerges and Artemes.
I see crappy Terran fighter, but I don't see any crappy Vasudan fighter.
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: TopAce on February 06, 2005, 12:07:21 pm
The only problem with the Vasudan fighters is their weak hull.
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: DIO on February 06, 2005, 12:36:14 pm
Like the command says, Avoid it and you won't get hit.
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: TrashMan on February 06, 2005, 04:29:24 pm
I stil lsay Orion Pawnzs anything...statisticly...
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Mr_Maniac on February 06, 2005, 06:23:57 pm
Okay... This question already came up but I ask again:

What or who are Snuffleupagus?
And why?
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Solatar on February 06, 2005, 07:00:50 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Mr_Maniac

What or who are Snuffleupagus?
 


(http://www.novirginsallowed.com/saddadcentral/writings/snuffleupagus/snuffleupagus.jpg)

Sesame Street 0wnzers j00...
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: TrashMan on February 06, 2005, 07:41:07 pm
*Takes gun*
*Walks around looking for people watching Sesame Street*
*Shoots them on site*
*Shoots everyone else too*
*Shoots himself*
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Taristin on February 06, 2005, 08:22:17 pm
This is why guns should be banned in Croatia...
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: NGTM-1R on February 07, 2005, 09:09:24 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Raa
The GTA lost alot of pilots after the utter failure known as Operation Thresher. More than the Vasudans.


That's not clear. We don't actually know Vasudan losses. We do know that Operation Thresher was not a total failure: it achieved at least half of its objectives by seperating the Vasudan fleet in Antares from sources of supply, though it failed to take the Vasuda-Antares node.

Quote
Originally posted by Raa
The shield prototype would have given an advantage for... what, 3 months? Until the Vasudans copied it, or were leaked schematics by Terrans under Vasudan control in the GTA? The Avenger only succeeded as well as it did, because of the joint cooperation between the species. I'm sure that both were producing them at the height of the war, because the Vasudans wouldn't entrust the Terrans with making that laser exclusively for both. I know I wouldn't trust an enemy of 14 years to give me a proper working laser.


The Avenger existed in functional form before the Shivan arrival. You also seem to think Lieutenant McCarthy was somehow typical. He wasn't. He acted because of the Shivans, remember? There is no evidence whatsoever that the Vasudans would have gotten ahold of the Avenger without McCarthy. Nor is there any evidence they could have gotten ahold of the shield prototype so rapidly. In fact, the only mention of pre-existing spies not created due to the Shivan threat is of Vasudans under Terran control.

But more to the point, those three months would be devastating to the Vasudans. Witness what the Shivans were able to accomplish in far less time with shielded craft. They laid waste to all who opposed even before the Lucifer came on the scene.

Quote
Originally posted by Raa
The cruisers may have been better, but the Vasudans were more willing to Kamikaze than the Terrans. The Vasudan fightercraft at the height of the war were also better. Ignoring the Anubis, of course.


The only craft developed jointly with the Vasudans was the Ulysses. And you can't count the Thoth, because the Thoth was the Vasudan side of the Ulysses project.

Now tell me again that they're going to do well against Hercs, Medusas, possibly even the Ursa. Given the timeframe involved, these craft all had to have been in the final stages of development before the Shivans arrived. Ditto the various cannons. The Interceptor missile wouldn't exist, as it combined a Terran warhead and Vasudan engine, but the Tsunami, Phoenix V, and Hornet would in all likelyhood.
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Falcon on February 07, 2005, 10:44:41 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Solatar


(http://www.novirginsallowed.com/saddadcentral/writings/snuffleupagus/snuffleupagus.jpg)

Sesame Street 0wnzers j00...



Because Snuffleupagus nose has a BFRed mounted on it? :drevil:

No wonder why the Sathani left Capella! :nervous:
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: DIO on February 07, 2005, 10:51:06 pm
Quote
Originally posted by ngtm1r


That's not clear. We don't actually know Vasudan losses. We do know that Operation Thresher was not a total failure: it achieved at least half of its objectives by seperating the Vasudan fleet in Antares from sources of supply, though it failed to take the Vasuda-Antares node.



The Avenger existed in functional form before the Shivan arrival. You also seem to think Lieutenant McCarthy was somehow typical. He wasn't. He acted because of the Shivans, remember? There is no evidence whatsoever that the Vasudans would have gotten ahold of the Avenger without McCarthy. Nor is there any evidence they could have gotten ahold of the shield prototype so rapidly. In fact, the only mention of pre-existing spies not created due to the Shivan threat is of Vasudans under Terran control.

But more to the point, those three months would be devastating to the Vasudans. Witness what the Shivans were able to accomplish in far less time with shielded craft. They laid waste to all who opposed even before the Lucifer came on the scene.



The only craft developed jointly with the Vasudans was the Ulysses. And you can't count the Thoth, because the Thoth was the Vasudan side of the Ulysses project.

Now tell me again that they're going to do well against Hercs, Medusas, possibly even the Ursa. Given the timeframe involved, these craft all had to have been in the final stages of development before the Shivans arrived. Ditto the various cannons. The Interceptor missile wouldn't exist, as it combined a Terran warhead and Vasudan engine, but the Tsunami, Phoenix V, and Hornet would in all likelyhood.


Wasn't hornet based on Vasudan Fang missile?
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: NGTM-1R on February 07, 2005, 11:13:55 pm
That's not canon. At least, not that I know of.
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: StratComm on February 07, 2005, 11:36:04 pm
It's not canon.  There's a lot to come out of projects like the TVWP that has become somewhat integrated into the cononical lore, but there's no mention of the Hornet's origins in either game.
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: Carl on February 08, 2005, 08:53:00 am
I think Spiderman would win.
Title: GTA vs. PVN
Post by: TrashMan on February 08, 2005, 08:59:25 am
Quote
Originally posted by Raa
This is why guns should be banned in Croatia...


Who needs guns?:D

*chops Raa with a greatsword*