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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: InfernoGod on February 08, 2005, 07:09:16 pm

Title: Licence to Clone Humans Acquired
Post by: InfernoGod on February 08, 2005, 07:09:16 pm
The guy who cloned Dolly the Sheep has acquired the licence to clone humans.
Title: Licence to Clone Humans Acquired
Post by: neo_hermes on February 08, 2005, 07:07:57 pm
...your kidding me right...

edit: how the hell did i become the first? in the thread
edit2: what in gods name is goin on here? i'm spacing out right?
Title: Licence to Clone Humans Acquired
Post by: Setekh on February 08, 2005, 07:11:39 pm
Are you serious? Where'd you find out this?
Title: Licence to Clone Humans Acquired
Post by: Solatar on February 08, 2005, 07:12:00 pm
Source?
Title: Licence to Clone Humans Acquired
Post by: InfernoGod on February 08, 2005, 07:13:00 pm
It's on the Road Runner website. I'll get the link.
And... the forums are being weird lately...
Title: Re: Licence to Clone Humans Acquired
Post by: Setekh on February 08, 2005, 07:13:49 pm
Quote
Originally posted by neo_hermes
...your kidding me right...

edit: how the hell did i become the first? in the thread


We've discussed this before, the server cluster that GameSpy is using (dynamic3, 4, 5, 6) is actually out of sync within itself - so when one server receives requests and sends timestamps to other servers, it'll be a minute or two out of whack.
Title: Licence to Clone Humans Acquired
Post by: InfernoGod on February 08, 2005, 07:13:33 pm
http://www.millennium-debate.org/ind12aug044.htm
That's a link for the article. I just got it off of CNN. (but it's not actually CNN)

Ah! My post is in the wrong place...

Small Correction: Human embryos, but that's a step closer to human cloning.
Title: Licence to Clone Humans Acquired
Post by: icespeed on February 08, 2005, 08:01:52 pm
omg.

i'm not sure what to think about this yet. i haven't devoted any thought to it. what are other people's viewpoints on cloning?
Title: Licence to Clone Humans Acquired
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on February 08, 2005, 08:06:08 pm
um...yay?
...
...

YAY!
Title: Licence to Clone Humans Acquired
Post by: BlackDove on February 08, 2005, 08:07:19 pm
WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

NOW I KNOW WHERE I'M GOING TO BREED THE SOLDIERS THAT WILL TAKE OVER THE WORLD FOR ME.

WOO HOO.
Title: Licence to Clone Humans Acquired
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on February 08, 2005, 08:10:45 pm
Think of it this way: It's one step towards being able to clone human organs. No more waiting for donors for some people!
Title: Licence to Clone Humans Acquired
Post by: icespeed on February 08, 2005, 08:11:34 pm
no, i meant _serious_ opinions.like, seriously.
Title: Licence to Clone Humans Acquired
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on February 08, 2005, 08:18:46 pm
Who said I wasn't being serious?
Title: Licence to Clone Humans Acquired
Post by: icespeed on February 08, 2005, 08:22:05 pm
not you, the others....
Title: Licence to Clone Humans Acquired
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on February 08, 2005, 08:21:13 pm
Ah...my mistake.

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\/
Title: Licence to Clone Humans Acquired
Post by: Flipside on February 09, 2005, 03:43:18 pm
Well, my current views on cloning are that it's fine for cloning individual organs and for research, but to attempt to create a concious self-aware human is wrong for 4 main reasons :-

1 : Theres too many of us already
2 : Theres a whole bucketload of rights issues to sort out first.
3 : Dolly the sheep had genetic defects that the scientists couldn't explain.
4 : It's so much more fun making people the normal way.

Just remember, don't confuse sci-fi cloning with 'real' cloning, which does not make a replica of the donor, there are elements of, in Dollys case, a third sheep used to Fertilise the egg etc.
Title: Licence to Clone Humans Acquired
Post by: Ford Prefect on February 09, 2005, 03:48:03 pm
There is only one way this technology could prove beneficial: If we used it to make a huge crowd of Bill Nye clones, and had them all say "Science rules!" at the same time.
Title: Licence to Clone Humans Acquired
Post by: aldo_14 on February 09, 2005, 03:55:48 pm
There's no intention to allow these cloned embryos to anything approaching 'life'.... in this case it's stem cell research into the progression of Motor Neurone Disease by cloning early stage embryos from the cells of sufferers; the scientist has already emphasised he has no intention of cloning actual babies.

My position is the same as Flips, really; cloning a breathing, living person is wrong, but for the purposes of new organs & stem cell research (so long as the embryo does not reach a viable i.e. 'alive' state) I think it's ok.
Title: Licence to Clone Humans Acquired
Post by: BlackDove on February 09, 2005, 04:00:35 pm
Quote
Originally posted by icespeed
not you, the others....


I wasn't kidding. The best way to raise an army quite quickly and mostly efficiently is to have them all genetically enhanced and pretty much on the same level.

Exependability rocks.
Title: Licence to Clone Humans Acquired
Post by: Janos on February 09, 2005, 04:07:09 pm
Go for it?

I mean, it's doable and could give us some insight about humans as a whole.
Title: Licence to Clone Humans Acquired
Post by: InfernoGod on February 09, 2005, 04:18:43 pm
The more something is cloned, the stupider it becomes. so cloning soldiers wouldn't be a very good idea.
Title: Licence to Clone Humans Acquired
Post by: aldo_14 on February 09, 2005, 04:26:42 pm
Quote
Originally posted by InfernoGod
The more something is cloned, the stupider it becomes. so cloning soldiers wouldn't be a very good idea.


That's not true; the more something is cloned, the greater risk there is of losing genetic information* not intelligence.

*is that even true in itself?  I know of the photocopy of a copy of a copy...etc sci-fi cloning, but what about biological?  Surely as long as you have viable cells, you have the correct DNA?
Title: Licence to Clone Humans Acquired
Post by: icespeed on February 09, 2005, 04:39:17 pm
well, even in normal reproduction, genetic material can be lost (in fact, apparently one in every one hundred and fifty live births are genetically abnormal, which raises the question, how many of the miscarriages, which outnumber the live births, were abnormal?) so presumably the same can happen in cloning.

so when people say that the embryo is alive or viable, what exactly does that mean?
Title: Licence to Clone Humans Acquired
Post by: aldo_14 on February 09, 2005, 05:00:10 pm
Quote
Originally posted by icespeed
well, even in normal reproduction, genetic material can be lost (in fact, apparently one in every one hundred and fifty live births are genetically abnormal, which raises the question, how many of the miscarriages, which outnumber the live births, were abnormal?) so presumably the same can happen in cloning.

so when people say that the embryo is alive or viable, what exactly does that mean?


IIRC

Viable means the embryo would survive being born (able to live outside of the mother)

Alive... I can't actually find the medical definition / time for when an embryo/foetus is alive justnow.  I think it is defined as the point when the brain has sufficiently developed as to be considered conscious.  You can probably tell exactly what the contentious issue is there; we can't even define 'alive', so how can we decide when something is alive?

British legislation is
[q]Abortion in England, Scotland and Wales is governed by the Abortion Act 1967 as amended by the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Act 1990. This states that a registered medical practitioner may lawfully terminate a pregnancy, in an NHS hospital or on premises approved for this purpose, if two registered medical practitioners are of the opinion, formed in good faith:
"(a) that the pregnancy has not exceeded its twenty-fourth week and that the continuance of the pregnancy would involve risk, greater than if the pregnancy were terminated, of injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman or any existing children of her family; or
(b) that the termination is necessary to prevent grave permanent injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman; or
(c) that the continuance of the pregnancy would involve risk to the life of the pregnant woman, greater that if the pregnancy were terminated; or
(d) that there is a substantial risk that if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped."

In addition, where a doctor "is of the opinion, formed in good faith, that the termination is immediately necessary to save the life or to prevent grave permanent injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman" the opinion of a second registered medical practitioner is not required. Nor, in these limited circumstances, are there restrictions on where the procedure may be carried out.

The 1990 amendments to the Act removed preexisting links with the Infant Life Preservation Act 1929 which had made it illegal to "destroy the life of a child capable of being born alive" with an assumption that a child was capable of being born alive after 28 weeks gestation. Thus, terminations carried out under sections 1(1)(b) to 1(1)(d) of the Act may be performed at any gestational age.

The question of what constitutes a "serious handicap" under section 1(1)(d) is not addressed in the legislation. It is a matter of clinical judgment and accepted practice. In assessing the seriousness of a handicap, the following criteria may be used:
- the probability of effective treatment, either in utero or after birth;
- the child's probable potential for self-awareness and potential ability to communicate with others; and
- the suffering that would be experienced by the child when born or by the people caring for the child.[/q]
Title: Licence to Clone Humans Acquired
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on February 09, 2005, 06:50:24 pm
Quote
Originally posted by BD


I wasn't kidding. The best way to raise an army quite quickly and mostly efficiently is to have them all genetically enhanced and pretty much on the same level.

Exependability rocks.


^
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*has apparently been watching Episode II: Attack of the Clones*
Title: Licence to Clone Humans Acquired
Post by: vyper on February 10, 2005, 10:34:05 am
Whee, we might find the cure to many diseases including diabetes.

Now in advance: **** off you pro life nutters I want a cure. :rolleyes:
Title: Licence to Clone Humans Acquired
Post by: Flaser on February 10, 2005, 10:50:18 am
Stem Cells are the holy grail for a number of so far uncurable disases, just by injecting them they will turn into the proper type of cell: these can be heart, neural or any kind of cell.
Title: Licence to Clone Humans Acquired
Post by: Getter Robo G on February 10, 2005, 03:54:47 pm
I just hope that D.S. doesn't try to acquire that licence as well !!! ;)

*Hmmm excellent, now I can create more followers to buy my crap and spam websites all over the world!* - promoted to Future Internet Commander...

:lol:
Title: Licence to Clone Humans Acquired
Post by: vyper on February 10, 2005, 03:55:00 pm
While that was funny.... take that DS bull**** out a serious thread. :p
Title: Licence to Clone Humans Acquired
Post by: Overlord on February 10, 2005, 04:25:27 pm
I think when you make a copy of a copy of a copy, then you loose information, but when you make copy of a thing and another copy of the same thing, then you don't loose information.
I hope this makes sense. :nervous:
Title: Licence to Clone Humans Acquired
Post by: BlackDove on February 10, 2005, 04:27:07 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Jetmech Jr.


^
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*has apparently been watching Episode II: Attack of the Clones*


Yeah, because that's what gave me the idea.

:ROLLEYEZ: