Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Arnav on May 18, 2001, 11:02:00 am
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I love Freespace2, will love it for many years to come, and appreciate the excellent community has spawned, the campaigns it has created, is creating and the ideas it has for campaigns that will be someday created.
But what makes people like them tick? They make huge campaigns with cutscenes (if UA and MT deliver, which I'm sure they will), voice-acting, professional MODs.
Yet nobody gets paid, nobody gets a job. Rather, we spend extra time lovingly making these creative brainstorms.
Why?! (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
I think we do it for the appreciation, the sense of having done something worthwhile for a few hundred or a few thousand people all over the world.
What do you think?
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- Arnav Manchanda
ICQ: 6228797
Creator of Technological Superiority: http://www.3dap.com/hlp/techsup (//"http://www.3dap.com/hlp/techsup")
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At least for me it's for personal satisfaction. I enjoy doing these things so much that even if absolutely noone was interested on it I'd keep doing. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
My original objective was to create a whole new game, but since it's way harder (and more time consuming) to do that, I picked the best game on the genre and decided to expand it, put a few of my own ideas in it. And somehow I managed to convince a lot of good people to help me... (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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I'm not exactly putting much focus into anything.
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by the way, how is MT going?
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I do it for the ladies. That's why there's so little progress. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/lol.gif)
As for MT, things are progressing pretty nicely. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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Read "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" written by Eric S. Raymond [the keeper of the Jargon File] you will understand CLEARLY why we do it
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FreeSpace 2: The Babylon Project Effects Nerd and Programmer.
http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/babylon ("http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/babylon")
Alliance Productions
http://alliance.sourceforge.net ("http://alliance.sourceforge.net")
Did you say you wanted your head used as a soccer ball?
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Originally posted by Kazan:
Read "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" written by Eric S. Raymond [the keeper of the Jargon File] you will understand CLEARLY why we do it
I think like... half the computer world has read that. I haven't been able to find it myself.
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I don't need no steekeen book to tell me why I do thing. I told you, I do it for the ladies. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
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Well, my limited modding/mission designing comes from the fact that as much as I would like to work on developing games from scratch, I don't have the skills or time to do it. Game development is fun. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
I seriously doubt that I will every do game development professionally, but I think that modding fills a nice niche because it makes amateur game development possible...as a hobby. Which is probably enough for me, and a lot of other people.
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Sushi- the OTHER white meat!
Accelerate your game-Velocity Mod ("http://sushicw.homestead.com/files/freespace/velocity.htm")
Sushi's Freespace Zone ("http://sushicw.homestead.com/files/freespace/index.htm")-Future home of loads of cool stuff.
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It's a stretch of talents to work in the media, it also requires much talent to create a plausible plotline that can be displayed in it's correct context.
Unfortunately, nearly every single campaign in current existance lacks in this department. So many are over-concerned with the mission design when they forget what truly moves them through the mission.
With Twilight plot and pacing were the primary factors.
Unfortunately some projects currently in development do not put as much time as required in this, and either fall as cliche' or poorly planned in this manner.
Eventually, the magic formula will be found, until then there is Twilight (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
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Ace
Staff member FreeSpace Watch
http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/ ("http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/")
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Pimp. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/tongue.gif)
I have plenty of campaign ideas... I just need to learn Fred. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
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I have a problem with it, I begin to work in FRED2, then I rapidly get bored with it and move on to modding something. I guess mission making just isn't my scene (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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- ICQ: 57179504
Co-Creator: Hard Light Productions ("http://www.3dap.com/hlp/")
Webmaster: Sounds of Thunder ("http://www.3dap.com/hlp/sot/")
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I wish I could just say that and leave it at that, but I have... plans...
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Whenever I "dive" into a new sci- fi universe my head begins to spill out other stories taking place in this universe, or stories in an own universe, elements from other stories.
I need to get them into something substantial somehow, and since I am a bad, no, a worse story writer I do it with something that I'm goo at, 3D design, either as renders or as game mods.
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For me, it's 2 things. First, the sense of giving something (however awful (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif) ) to the community. Second, the enormous sense of satisfaction you get from realising you've done something no one else ever has - this also applies to the 2 other games I've MODded half-seriously, Escape Velocity (a shareware Mac game which used to have a HUGE active modding community, sadly now nearly extinct) and XWA. Unfortunately both of these required too much in the way of graphical or programming skill for me, and my projects lie unfinished. What I love about FS2 is that you can literally sit down for 5 minutes with wordpad and FRED and create something new, different and exciting. I've yet to find another game with anywhere approaching its MOD-friendliness.
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Dang, I'd love to be able to turn out an exciting mission in 5 minutes. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
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Sushi- the OTHER white meat!
Accelerate your game-Velocity Mod ("http://sushicw.homestead.com/files/freespace/velocity.htm")
Sushi's Freespace Zone ("http://sushicw.homestead.com/files/freespace/index.htm")-Future home of loads of cool stuff.
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Originally posted by Sushi:
Dang, I'd love to be able to turn out an exciting mission in 5 minutes. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
Hehe, that's how long it takes me to load FRED2/FS2 together for mission testing.
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- Arnav Manchanda
ICQ: 6228797
Creator of Technological Superiority: http://www.3dap.com/hlp/techsup ("http://www.3dap.com/hlp/techsup")
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I enjoy contributing something to the community. I rather like the feeling of a job well done and knowing that someone will enjoy all the hard work that I put into a campaign or mission.
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Originally posted by Setekh:
Pimp. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/tongue.gif)
I have plenty of campaign ideas... I just need to learn Fred. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
*Waves his hands and jumps up and down like a crazy monkey*
By the way, Setekh, have you tested my mission yet? I need to know if more Shivans are needed for the crazy people out there.
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...and one day, Man will journey farther and faster into Space. - My thoughts
GTD Excellence ("http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/excellence") Webmaster
NeoHunter< [b][email protected][/b] >
Not to mention a FREDder! (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by NeoHunter (edited 05-23-2001).]
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More Shivans? Nah, just make the ones you have harder. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
Actually, that only works when you only have to worry about yourself. Fighting fewer, thougher enemies is fun, but your wingmen just can't handle it. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/tongue.gif)
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Sushi- the OTHER white meat!
Accelerate your game-Velocity Mod ("http://sushicw.homestead.com/files/freespace/velocity.htm")
Sushi's Freespace Zone ("http://sushicw.homestead.com/files/freespace/index.htm")-Future home of loads of cool stuff.
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HT will probably have cutscenes as well(if I figure out this Lightwave6 program, can't make heads, tails out of it. Can't get renders to actually show the textures-Anyone know how?) Even if I don't I have a pal that can do it for me. Anyway what makes me tick is the idea of actually playing the scenario/campaign.
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-Director of the staff of Hidden Terror. ("http://hiddenterror.cjb.net")
-Director of the staff of Homeworld4FreeSpace ("http://homeworld4freespace.homestead.com/")
-Fleet Admiral of The Ancients Armada ("http://ancientsarmada.cjb.net/")
The fear always controls our attitude, let us fear no more!
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Well I think I'm going to echo the thoughts of others here but let me see if I can expand a bit.
Yet nobody gets paid, nobody gets a job. Rather, we spend extra time lovingly making these creative brainstorms.
You almost answered the question yourself Arnav. There is a certain release in being creative. When I decide to do a campaign or a mission, its based on a need to have a creative outlet. I think that there is a story that I want to tell others and so I go and write about it for a while and I see if I like the idea or not. Sometimes, I like it just for the sheer fun factor of making a living, breathing (metaphorically) mission with events happening.
The biggest draw is to bring another person into your personal world and tell them what you think would happen if or what the next logical progression is.
It took me some time, but I eventually learned the ropes of mission and campaign design. Writing within an already established universe makes it more difficult because you want to introduce new elements without going over the old ones, or worse yet, contradicting what happened before.
With both Warzone and BlackWater Operations, I've gone over the story of FreeSpace 2 and sometimes even FreeSpace 1 and Silent Threat to ensure that my ideas fit the universe and that they are acceptable to it. This is perhaps a downfall with many missions I've played is that alot of the things happening are not plausable, or at least not explained so that they are.
Shivans all of the sudden attacking has become cliche, although I did it with Warzone anyways but I think I presented my ideas fairly well. IF I do Shivans again, I want to do it differently from another angle and another perspective.
Another thing that has become cliche is the "Terran Rebels". We've seen alot of missions where there are those gosh darn Terran rebels creating problems again.
No, you can't totally escape either cliche, but Ace showed in Twilight that an insurgency can be a little more than a bunch of bad guys with pesky ships that show up and ramble off annoying catch phrases.
There are always lots of issues and lots of critics on the ideas presented (I'm one of them, im not innocent of picking other peoples works to pieces either, but I do give mad props to people who did it right too) but ultimately when it comes down to making campaigns, its fun to tell a story and have a creative release.
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I'd have to say the hardest thing ATM with respect to UoW is trying to show the rationale for the existence of Ice's 'Terran Rebels' in a game format, something which due to it's invariably action-based format is nearly impossible to do in anything more than the shallowest form.
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Creating the immersion as well as attempting to avoid cliche' without breaking from a familiar template is rather difficult.
A major folly in how non-cliche' material forms is in it's interpretation. Take for example Frank Herbert's Dune which between the movie released in the '80s and the sci-fi channel's movie, are entirely different.
Similarly, you can't take something such as FreeSpace and deform it too much from the original context or take the threat of each player's seeing it in such a drastically different view, taking their own opinions with it.
These are my reasons for sticking close to an easy to understand blackplot. (i.e. rebels in Ikeya part of something bigger, playing with Shivan behavior changing tech)
Now in a sci-fi project of mine which I'm slowly working on which is unrelated to FreeSpace will give me the freedom to work on philosiphy, religion, abuse of power, and technology all in a framework not restrained by the limitations of telling a story in a FreeSpace campaign style.
Just remember this on campaigns, that when making one interpretation is a weapon against you.
Even Twilight is open to much interpretation with the character-sub plots which remain mostly static in the campaign's course. (but do explain motivations)
Overall, I've used this interpretation as a weapon against the player to raise doubts without making it point-blank as in FreeSpace 2 to the point of making the player not trust in their faction. (i.e. the GTVA)
That is something that also needs to be avoided, subtle mistrust and undertones should remain to keep you on edge and unsecure, but never blatant lies unless it's extremely clear what you're up against.
I should make this all an FSW editorial (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/tongue.gif)
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Ace
Staff member FreeSpace Watch
http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/ ("http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/")
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Whatever happened to that Freespace Reference Guide? It outlined everything about Freespace, quite a useful resource for those interested in following all aspects of the storyline.. I mean, I have a piece of it stored on my computer, the timeline of events from the first encounter with the vasudans through the capella explosion... Its neat to use actual consistant dates, etc. when referencing such things in briefings, etc.
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Staff Member, Hard Light Productions ("http://www.3dap.com/hlp")
Creator / Project Coordinator: The Perfect Storm ("http://ross128.telefragged.com/hosted/perfectstorm/index.html")
TPS Forums Page - Click Here ("http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=The+Perfect+Storm&number=15")
Think you've got killer vocal cords? Voice actors needed! Email me @ [email protected]
These detonators were a piece of junk! I even followed the directions... - Lt. Commander Snipes - Special Operations Command
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Well, I guess I'll know soon enough. But my drive is storytelling. I love to be able to tell a story - making a campaign is another way to convey what I want to show, just like a fan fic or render.
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Originally posted by RKIF-DragonClaw:
(if I figure out this Lightwave6 program, can't make heads, tails out of it. Can't get renders to actually show the textures-Anyone know how?)
I can help you out in the LW6 department... Just e-mail me with exactly what's wrong and I'll do my best to fix the prob... (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by CobaltStarr (edited 05-28-2001).]