Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Omniscaper on February 17, 2005, 01:23:52 am
-
(//Http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/staff_images/Galactica/BsgRibs.jpg)
(//Http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/staff_images/Galactica/BsgRibs2.jpg)
(//Http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/staff_images/Galactica/BsgRibs3.jpg)
(//Http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/staff_images/Galactica/BsgRibs4.jpg)
Perhaps I never should have converted MadDog's the 50k Galactica. Knowing the possibilities will now be my BANE, for I am tempted to ride the limits.
Please take note of the counter. The selected objects are the ribs.. and I'm not even finished.
To create ribs out of extrusions would have only resulted in MUCH wasted polygons. I'm still aiming for a top polygon count of 18k. I now must optimize the rest of the mesh to force this aethstetic part to the model. Not to mention, I am now forced to make the various panels as well considering the ribs are an under layer to BSG's hull.
Besides its vast array of turrets, I still gotta model the interior of the landing bay, hangar bay, and launch tubes!!! Perhaps even the museum on the right (port or starboard?) landing pod.
Perhaps thats insane. Well, it would not be the first time I have been accused of it. :p
-
You're off your nut, sonny jim.
Frankly, I'm impressed. :D:yes:
-
if you're running out of polys, you could reduce the segments of the single elements, some of them at least, without too much visual loss. I know that a single segment is just 6 tris, but 6 x some hundreds of greebling elements means that you could cut around 1k tris, which isn't that few.
BTW, counting the polys has sense only when the mesh is optimized.
If you want to make a very fast test: open the model in truespace, use a boolean operation with delete edges enables, and then triangulize again.
It'll get rid of the majority of the useless polys, you still will have to optimize it, but it is just a fast test to have an idea of the real pcount of your model
-
Put the model in Ts, and odds are it'll mangle it completely (especially with a boolean); I've had that happen before putting 3ds into TS.
My personal preference is to optimize whilst modelling, so I regularly check the polycount of models. I'd suggest with Gal there, that you try removing the middle-split though; it doesn't seem to be geometrically necessary as-is, because it's splitting a flat face in 2.
-
TS!? As in Truespace? hisssssssssssssssss
Just kidding. To tell you the truth I havent touched the program since Styxx's 3dsmax pluggin was released. I still use PCS though, for pof editing and glowpoint adjustments.
I optimize as I model, but since the ribs was a last minute decision, I skipped over much of the mesh that I would now remove. Time to back track. There are still flat areas that don't deserve their polygons. Curvature, I still try to keep at least 4 polygons.
-
Omni, you are one sick person, (simply awesome) GOD BLESS YOU! ;)
I halfway got the reference before clicking.. I was like RIBS? LOL!
-
I never said to work in TS, if he doesn't want to, I just said to use it for a fast and inaccurate optimization in order to evaluate the real pcount, and know then how much space he really has for more greeblings.
I never got too problems when opening a 3ds in TS directly, and surely none if using 3dexploration.
As for booleans, you get problems only if do something wrong, surely not if you just substract a non intersecting cube...:rolleyes:...which lets you remove in a simple click most of the edges that are there but don't contribute in anyway to the geometry (i.e: all the edges that split faces which are already flat).
That's a 2 minute test to have an idea of what the true pcount is, but if you want to spend half an hour or probably more removing manually all the edges (which you probably will have to do anyway later) then go for it:p
-
Extra edges can be easily removed, via 3dsmax's vertice welder. I've been using since i first started converting the trek ships. I used 3dsmax to ti fix Milkshape caused anomolies during the nif>3ds conversion. From there I took it to TS for conversion. Thank goodness that step is no longer necesarry for me.
-
again-
I'm NOT suggesting a way to optimize but a way to evaluate the pcount while still modelling, w/o having to optimize (if you don't want to optimize during the modelling process).
Booleans in ts automatically remove most of the useless edges, if you select the delete verts option, this way you can have an idea of what the pcount is and how many details you can add.
Oh, well forget it
-
Well, if the ribs remain a seperate subobject, they can have that incredibly high poly count as well, ne?
But omni, tell me, what is the little meter tool you're using with 'budget' and all that?
-
Originally posted by Raa
Well, if the ribs remain a seperate subobject, they can have that incredibly high poly count as well, ne?
I think he means unecessary edges on the hull model itself. I'm not sure myself how you'd get those, but maybe that's because I only box mode.
Originally posted by Raa
But omni, tell me, what is the little meter tool you're using with 'budget' and all that?
That's the polygon counter tool that comes with Max.
-
Its just a counter that can be set to a budget that red lites when you go over. But red is always green to me so thats useless. If I less than half of that 50k to good use. Now I don't know about you, but I personally think that the current 6000 polys of ribs is a good poly investment when making close range fly by's. I hate flying over FS2's large ships and not get a sense of speed because of washout or noticably tiled textures over large flat planes. No sir, this baby beast will take no part of that.
-
Hmm. Never knew there was a poly counter tool, I usually just select the object and all the faces for a rough estimate. :nervous: But then my models aren't ever high poly, they just look like they could be.
As for edges, I have no idea, for I, too, only box model.
-
Oh, and yes, I agree that little greeled detail should be on the sides, since nothing else gives you a sense of scale.
(Like if you're in a sekhmat and you fly next to the Hecate's comm towers)
-
You're never going to see more than one Galactica onscreen in a normal scenario, so you can push up the polys a bit thanks to that, I guess.
-
Never?.... hmmm.
Commander Cain would have your head for that one. :)
Keep in mind this will lod-0 set to an extreemly close distance. Ribs will go bye bye by the time lod-1 kicks in. I feel its well camaflouged with the textures to not see the transition.
-
Commander Cain? Is he related to Commander Kewin? :p
<-- who has only ever seen the SciFi series of BSG, and knows nothing of any other Battlestars.
-
so, it's ribed for her pleasure eh?
-
Same here, I've nearly caught up with the all of the original's season. Been downloa..... renting the dvd's to see why the hardcore fans are so sour about this new one.
Commander Cain was some insano battlestar leader who was attacking the Cylons while Galactica wastoo busy running away.
-
Originally posted by Bobboau
so, it's ribed for her pleasure eh?
ROTFL
-
Originally posted by Omniscaper
Same here, I've nearly caught up with the all of the original's season. Been downloa..... renting the dvd's to see why the hardcore fans are so sour about this new one.
Commander Cain was some insano battlestar leader who was attacking the Cylons while Galactica wastoo busy running away.
Pegasus?
I thought of that, but that wouldn't be a 'normal' scenario, would it?
-
Originally posted by Omniscaper
Its just a counter that can be set to a budget that red lites when you go over. But red is always green to me so thats useless. If I less than half of that 50k to good use. Now I don't know about you, but I personally think that the current 6000 polys of ribs is a good poly investment when making close range fly by's. I hate flying over FS2's large ships and not get a sense of speed because of washout or noticably tiled textures over large flat planes. No sir, this baby beast will take no part of that.
You're color blind? How do you make Star Trek mods look so accurate with the phasers and everything when phasers, photorps, and disruptors all look the same color to you?
-
Originally posted by Woolie Wool
You're color blind? How do you make Star Trek mods look so accurate with the phasers and everything when phasers, photorps, and disruptors all look the same color to you?
If red looks green, then all he has to do is match the shades of green. Or something.
Och, I dunno what I'm on about.
-
Commander Cain had the brilliant idea of jumping to lightspeed at the exact moment the battlestar he was alongside exploded. The Cylons thought that BOTH of them were destroyed casue of the proximity (and if Cain hadn't jumped , more than likely that's exactlywhat would have happened , or if their calculations were off.)
After that he did hit and run warfare going deeper into cylon territory so any Colonial remnants (like Galactica) can run far and fast with less pursiut as the Cylons started payingmore attention to their backyard. Eventually he realises it's getting too dangerous as the Cylons close their net on the Pegasus so he bails out of the Cylon territories and ends up finding Galactica by following the cylons reinforcing the forward pursiut forces.
When last we see him and the Pegasus they throw off Galactica's pursuers by engaging two Base Stars at point blank range and firing all their nukes broadside totally destroying the Cylons. It is assumed they died in the explosionand the return fire of the Cylons.
It was Adama's belief that Cain simply used this as an opportunity to disappear again lie before and is even now harrasing the Cylons behind their lines...
-
would be cool to see him later on in the series, then... >.> Somehow. I dunno how tho.
-
Yummy
-
Llyod Bridges (Fatther of Beau Brigdes) was perfect for the Cocky, arrogant, and totally over the top perfectionist Commander Cain. On one hand you wanted to applaud him for his bold daring plans on the other hand you sometimes feel like laughing in his face as a lunatic.
-
impressive. max seems to eat up polycounts a hell of alot faster than truespace. truespace is good for getting dirty and actually making an effietient mesh from scratch, while max seems to be better for hipoly work.
-
Ehh, I make low poly models in Max all day long. It's all dependant on the modeller, not the program.
-
The only difference is that max auto-triangulates. But I find max to be very efficient for modelling; sometimes I find myself using too few polys.
-
Originally posted by aldo_14
The only difference is that max auto-triangulates.
If you're in edit mesh. Use edit poly and it won't.
-
it doesn't mater, exept to a small degree for colision detection, becase the rendered polygons are converted to triangles any way.
-
i find myself doing more and more stuff in max. i notice it likes to put polies in places it shouldnt.
-
Originally posted by Nico
If you're in edit mesh. Use edit poly and it won't.
mmm didn't know that, but what happen if you save? it autotriangulate to save to 3ds, right?
Anyway, you can do the same in truespace, there's an option to work with triangles, never tryed it, maybe it'd make the program more stable....maybe:p
-
Originally posted by Nico
If you're in edit mesh. Use edit poly and it won't.
Need to convert models as editable mesh with Styxx' plugin, though; I never really felt a need to use editable poly (etc) for modelling in all honesty.
Except for auto-welding after a split & mirror, of course.
Originally posted by Nuke
i find myself doing more and more stuff in max. i notice it likes to put polies in places it shouldnt.
:doubt: Never seen that happen myself. sure you've not ticked a split box or something by accident?
-
Damn it!!! I nearly the 18,000 polygon mark and I'm not even done ribbing the bottom front and the engines. Theres still the cool turrets and hangar bays. I estimate those will ad an extra 3k.
I've optimized the mesh as much as I could by removing unnecessary poly's on flat planes and resticting curvature to at to around 4-6 poly's. :(
Perhaps I should start considering the possibility that the ribbing maybe too much. Or perhaps extend my poly limit to 25k, making this a strictly HT&L and uber pc model only.
Suggestions?
(http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/staff_images/Galactica/BsgRibs5.jpg)
(http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/staff_images/Galactica/BsgRibs6.jpg)
-
Wow its 8:52 am... perhaps I should get to bed.
-
Meh so make two versions, finish this one as it should be, then go back and remove what you need to and make it up with texturing. Simplistic I know, but also realistic, plus it wil make me very happy ;)
-
Remove the middle split; I can't see a point in it.
-
I'm currently working on the launch tubes, and got carried away with some fun renders, trying different motion blur effects.
(http://game-warden.com/bsg/staff_images/Viper%20MkII/Vipblur.jpg)
(http://game-warden.com/bsg/staff_images/Viper%20MkII/Vipblur2.jpg)
A simple extruded triangle did not look good, so I beefed it up a notch with some tube frames. That added 350 poly's in my shrinking polygon budget. I think I'll just make just one tube that the player can flythrough. The rest can just be short triangular intrusions. I hope the new multi-docking feature could be put to use on the BSG.
(http://game-warden.com/bsg/staff_images/Viper%20MkII/Vipblur3.jpg)
-
Whats annoying is the BSG's length. The show (old/new) exagerrated the tube distance. The tube is probably no longer than a hundred feet I think.
(http://game-warden.com/bsg/staff_images/Galactica/Viptube.jpg)
(http://game-warden.com/bsg/staff_images/Galactica/Viptube2.jpg)
-
Actually, in the old one they had only 5 tubes per pod and they were angled. That way you can get longer distance. Re-watch some of the episodes, though the tunnels are long, it is totally feasible with that degree of angle, however that means the loading is done on the far side of the pod as the tunnel would go halfway under the width of the bay (again not a problem) just use elevatorsand make the flight deck under the bay towards the ship sides, OOPS that would be the OLD series.. my bad... But it made sence then.
-
yes, the middle split is useless (unless you want to mirror textures), and it also seem like there are 2 parallel, close splits instead of only one.
There are some more apparently useless splits, on the top of the hangars and on the arms that connect the hangars to the main body
IMHO you can reduce the number of segments on the engines: it seem that, considering their sizes, they are more segmented compared to other areas.
The same could be said for the middle of the main body
-
thats why i almost never mirror model my ships. then theres all those faces in the front where its supposed to be flat (an example of max putting things where its not supposed to). if your using symetrical tiles you can get rid of it, however if you are trying to minimize your texture usage, yoyu could uv up to the next line over and map the other side on top of the mirrored equivelent in the uv map. i could do that in truespace but i havent a clue how it would be done in max.
-
In my experience mirror modeling doesn't add all that many polygons. It does add a few, but since most ships usually have a seam for at least most of their length th places where it is appplicable far outweigh those where it isn't. The extra faces can be removed at the end if they are a real problem.
-
Originally posted by aldo_14
Need to convert models as editable mesh with Styxx' plugin, though; I never really felt a need to use editable poly (etc) for modelling in all honesty.
Except for auto-welding after a split & mirror, of course.
:doubt: Never seen that happen myself. sure you've not ticked a split box or something by accident?
Yeah, that's what it says in the txt, but I had no trouble converting poly based objects :confused:
And, really, I suggest you try them. I never really felt I needed them either until I really tried. I've tried about 6 or 8 month ago. I've NEVER come back to edit mesh after that :p
Why do you need to go to poly to autoweld after a split and error? in edit mesh, you use weld selected, and you type 0, and it works as well.
Karma: nah, 3ds autotriangulates. Don't forget it's a 15 years old format, from a DOS prog ;)
-
I only use edittable poly mode. Even when converting to pof, because like Nico said, poly works too. (better, for me, in fact)
-
All the tuts I've followed used editable poly, so that's what I use.
-
*jumps on bandwagon* I use editable poly too.