Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rictor on February 20, 2005, 08:09:50 pm
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Personally, I don't see how it benefits Syria. Its like a big gift to the anti-Syrian opposition in Lebanon, a rallying call. It makes no sense, especially since he was not an acting (as in current) politician, so it stands to reason that his influence was largely gone (in comparison to what it was mere months ago). If they wanted to either send a message or kill him for strategic reasons, last year would have been more effective. This way, they get all off the bad (criticism) and none of the good (eliminating an influential opponent from power). And I don't believe that Syria is being run by people who don't have the mental capacity to realize this...
Seems a bit, well, sketchy. If you get what I mean. Not that I condone Syria's presence in Lebanon, I take the same stance towards all foreign occupations.
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many nations do many stupid things
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Yes, what he said.
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though honestly I don't know much of anything about it other than it happened
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According to an article I read today, it seems that he was about to formally join the opposition, who for the most part objects to the role Syria plays in Lebanon, and his money could have helped fund quite a few candidates.
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We may end up with a war in that region before long. And it will have nothing to do with the US.
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I am sure some people will point the fingure at the US.
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well there are people who blamed the tsunami on us, so, yeah.
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Actually, thats not quite accurate. What people blamed the US for in that case was knowing about the tsunami a few hours before it hit and not telling anyone. And I must say, if you look at the evidence from Diego Garcia, its not an impossibility.
As for the assasination, all I'm saying is that the official story makes no sense. When you balance the pros and cons, Syria comes away in worse shape than before. My general rule of thumb is "whenever there is consensus in the media, thats when its time to start asking questions". Better to be too skeptical and turn out to be wrong, then not be skeptical enough and miss something important.
Lib: if you go to war, its always your own fault unless you are defending yourself from invasion. Policing the world doesn't count. This is true for any country.
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Well, if that's the case, Rictor. The USA has not had any business in any war since the War of 1812.
damn time warp!
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Erm, for the most part, yeah. There are exceptions, such as WW2 and some others which I'm probably forgetting. If Hitler had taken over Europe, and the odds of that happening were sharply increased without America involvement, then its pretty clear who would have been next. That was a legitimate case of pre-emption, because it was obvious that Hitler and his allies had both the will and the way to conquer everything in sight. These days, some may have the will, but no one (not even America) has the means to pull it off.
And not trying to be an asshole, but the war of 1812 started when a America tried to annex Canada, not the other way around. Actually, this is oversimplified, but it was the US who declared war first.
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I give it two more pages before a well timed evolution comment will set the thread alight.
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Hmmmmmmm All I'll say is that there seems to be some incontinuity in thinking here. After all, it is not the first time that a highly influencial member of the 'enemy' has been assasinated, only last time, America Veto'd the UN condemnation, this time they pull their ambassador out. I find it kind of hard to get my head around.
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if we try hard enough, we can blame the big bang on america too.
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:rolleyes:
You normally make pretty reasonable posts with a point and a reason, please don't fall into the trap you are falling into ;)
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actually, i think that the sarcasm was reasonable, about as reasonable as making sure that everyone knows how america went into iraq to search for wmd's without proof, but then making veiled allegations against america when someone is assassinated. Showing proof to condemn america is one thing, but a thinly veiled condemnation without proof is another.
so i figure that since we are already there......:rolleyes:
sincerely signed...ShadowWolf_IH, defender of what must be the only evil country on the face of the planet.
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Well, personally, I greatly doubt America had anything to do with it. And, indeed the only person who even suggested they did was Redmenace, who supports the war, and he also was talking in sarcasm. So the only two people who have suggested it was the US are 2 supporters of the US?
Self generating flames! Cool!
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The problem SW is that America has a history of carrying out things like this. Remember that the CIA did once consider assassinating John Glenn and then blaming the soviets for it.
I'm not going to say that the US are responsible for this but frankly it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they were.
Besides the big bang was a good thing. No one here is going to blame the US for it :p
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Originally posted by karajorma
I'm not going to say that the US are responsible for this but frankly it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they were.
That sums up my position very nicely.
We have seen no evidence to support either story. Keep in mind, no one has released so much as a single document to implicate Syria in this either. So, all I'm saying is that we shouldn't jump to conclusions based on lack of evidence.
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Well, that said Kara, just about every country in the world has pulled that stunt on more than one occasion.
I would almost be prepared to believe that it was done by an organisation that stands to benefit from a confrontation between America and Syria, theres a lot of large organisations that could stand to pocket a lot of money from it, same as Iraq, but somehow I don't think this is the doing of some kind of governmental policy.
It's like the old adage of being most anonymous in a crowd, and the thing is, it would be so so easy to blame it on the US, it's gives the appearance of giving the US exactly the excuse it wanted. But I think, if America is at fault for anything in this situation, it's jumping onto the 'Holier than Thou' bandwagon simply because it looks like Syria did it and America are already in strained relations with them.
I suppose that's why I'm not inclined to jump on that Bandwagon too, there are too many variables involved, it's easy for the US to blame Syria, it could be easy for us to blame America, but we're talking about flipping a coin for the guilty party, we are talking about rolling a D100 ;)
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It was the Illuminati. Or was it the Seven Jewish Bankers? Damn, can't remember now.
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Originally posted by Flipside
Well, that said Kara, just about every country in the world has pulled that stunt on more than one occasion.
True. No country is clean and our own has it's own share of stupid blunders when it comes to interfering with other countries (Look at Zimbabwe if you don't believe that).
But in terms of motive the USA are the ones with one of the biggest, most obvious motives. That doesn't mean that they are guilty but it does mean that as a prime suspect they should be amongst those investigated first.
So rather than listening to them when they point their finger at Syria and believing everything they say the world needs to treat them in exactly the same way as someone who points at the other suspect and says "He did it."
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Originally posted by karajorma
Besides the big bang was a good thing. No one here is going to blame the US for it :p
:lol: i needed htat one, and the self generating flames too. and i didn't flame anyone. pepsi anyone?
vby the way flip, did you ever get my PM?
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hehehe Yep, I was only joking about the flame thing ;)
Replied to your PM.
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audio interview with Robert Fisk, acclaimed Brit journalist living in Lebanon with what might fairly be called an intimate knowledge of the country, who also happened to be there when the bomb went off.
I'm inclined to call it perhaps one of the best sources on the assassination so far.
His take is that while chances are good that Syria probably knew about the bombing, they didn't necessarily order it. Hariri had alot of enemies, and especially in Lebanon the situation is bound to be notoriously complicated.
http://www.democracynow.org/fisk_interview.mp3
:yes: :yes:
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I thought Syria were blaming Israel (which has sort of become a US-by-proxy blame, admittedly)? Albeit Syria also accused Israel of suicide bombing themself, so maybe that's not the more logical source.
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Aye just to give an example of how complicated **** is over there the Syrian vp made accusations against Israel at Hariris funeral which he was invited too by the people who are accusing Syria of the bombing. The situations there is seriously ****ed up, the opposition consists of people whose militias ethnically cleansed their territories of each other a few years ago.
Fisks book Pity the Nation is probably the best book on the Leb out there, anyone gets the time they should read it.
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Originally posted by Gank
Fisks book Pity the Nation is probably the best book on the Leb out there, anyone gets the time they should read it.
Thats the plan. Just need time/money/a baggy coat.