Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Deepblue on February 21, 2005, 02:24:22 am
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Damnit. The buggers are too detailed.
2 flavors:
What the show has...
(http://server3.uploadit.org/files/DeepblueWA-turret.jpg)
Whats more convenient for people's computers...
(http://server2.uploadit.org/files/DeepblueWA-turret2.jpg)
Get the max file here (http://www.freewebs.com/expeditions/BSGturret.max) (just remove the braces to get #2).
(BTW when are you going to post your "Asteroid Assualt" here?) :drevil:
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YES!!!... I could use BOTH... for different lods... must get sleep first... will do it first thing in morning.
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I can't see the polys but I'd vote to at least make a version with the top one...it just wouldn't do the BSG any justice with the lower-LOD ones. You'd have an awesome-looking hull but crap turrets (No offense. ;) )
Oh, and "Bobb's subsystem LOD code" for using both ;)
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WHAT!? Subsystem....LOD!? You serious!? LOD's that calculate your distance to the subobject and not the parent object!? Don't freak me out here.
Damn it... its 4:15 am... I REALLY wanna go to sleep ::starts up 3dsmax::
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That's what I heard...IIRC for destroyable-subobject 'fighters' that were 'parked' in/on hangar bays.
Unfortunately it doesn't look like it's implemented.
If I understand the code correctly I might be able to add that (It's certainly possible). I'd like to hear from Bobb whether or not it's implemented though.
If I were doing it, though, I'd basically find the distance between the subobject's position and the viewer position (Unlike the code for models as a whole, which finds the nearest point on the mesh) and set it accordingly. I make no guarantees though, it'd be my first time working directly with the model rendering code.
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:( Bummer.. Bob?
Ok, time to retexture and remodel the top and bottom sections of the BSG.... but for now... sleep.
(http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/staff_images/Galactica/BSGTurret.jpg)
(http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/staff_images/Galactica/BSGTurret2.jpg)
Thats 16 of those turrets added on.... so add 7000 polys to the tally. Thats a total of 23k so far... and still climbing. heh heh.
Thanks a million Deepblue!!!
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i dont like those hard eges on the base there. chamfering them shouldn add more than a few polies.
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it's in my local codebase
still need to get all the bugs out of my animation system and weapon models before commiting
this is what I was talking to you about in the othr thread, I have code (origonaly designed for makeing super detailed fighter bays) that can be used to have subobjects only show up if the viewer is within a defineable box around the subobject. the best way to use this for adding details would be to have a serese of subobjects each with it's own texture each about 1000 pollies the closer you get to a reagon the more detailed it becomes. (directx > 8 likes batches of pollies of about 1000)
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holy mother of god omni.
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NP. Those do look good on there.
@Nuke. Yes it will add polies. Those are 448 or something triangulated as is (its the beams on the guns, each is about 20 polies and there are 8 of them).
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Actually one thing I experimented with (as far as the hard edges on the base are concerned) was just giving all the polies there a single smoothgroup. It looks chamfered (almost) without adding any polies. In the end I went for the hard look though cause I liked it better.
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Hrmm, the bottoms need a base. Also higher resolution textures for the Galactica to help with the sense of scale :)
Also, replacing the tiled texture on the turrets with something closer to how the turrets are textured in the show would be nice.
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You could reduce poly count by quite a lot by using the correct number of rails (http://www.nvidia.com/docs/IO/10663/2.jpg).
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Originally posted by Alan Bolte
You could reduce poly count by quite a lot by using the correct number of rails (http://www.nvidia.com/docs/IO/10663/2.jpg).
um dude, theres more than 3 railguns. mind u the ship itself i believe has 20+ lateral (the pontoons) turrets-but these arent the same size as the above turrets, theyre more like the colossus side turrets or the diemos's mini-turrets, the 4-8 on the top and the 5-or so on the bottom of the battlestar.
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would it be possible to "fake" the beams by using the "invisible" texture ?
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Not without adding almost as many polygons. Plus, transparency isn't perfect, so you can only use it in select locations or it doesn't work at all.
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Having the cockpits and such on the turrets would be nice. Sure, it'd kill the polycount even more but it'd be sooo nice :)
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Originally posted by deep_eyes
um dude, theres more than 3 railguns. mind u the ship itself i believe has 20+ lateral (the pontoons) turrets-but these arent the same size as the above turrets, theyre more like the colossus side turrets or the diemos's mini-turrets, the 4-8 on the top and the 5-or so on the bottom of the battlestar.
what he means is that theres three things on the edges of the barrel of the gun, not 4
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Originally posted by deep_eyes
um dude, theres more than 3 railguns. mind u the ship itself i believe has 20+ lateral (the pontoons) turrets-but these arent the same size as the above turrets, theyre more like the colossus side turrets or the diemos's mini-turrets, the 4-8 on the top and the 5-or so on the bottom of the battlestar.
Can you prove this? I've seen no turrets save ones like those linked to in Mr. Bolte's post, though I admit I haven't seen as many episodes as I should...
Railguns? *tilts head to one side, puzzled* Plasma or laser or something, but definitely not projectile-based...
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Damnit!!! *curses lack of reference material* *goes back and corrects problem*
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Hmm, I think it would be a great idea to make a collection of reference materials of the ships from the series. I already have all the episodes downloaded and backed up on dvd.
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Originally posted by ngtm1r
Can you prove this? I've seen no turrets save ones like those linked to in Mr. Bolte's post, though I admit I haven't seen as many episodes as I should...
Railguns? *tilts head to one side, puzzled* Plasma or laser or something, but definitely not projectile-based...
They fire flak... I'm pretty sure thats projectile based.
And Omniscaper, go ahead and redownload the max file. I put the correct number of rails in, added a base, added a small detail, optimized the mesh, and managed to cut 50 or so polies.
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On the ZOIC-released images I'm seeing 24 big guns, all the same as far as I can tell, and well over 400 tiny guns, also all the same. The big guns have three rails coming off the barrel and the tiny guns seem to have either a lot of rails, or slotted barrels. Is there something I'm missing?
EDIT: Wait, are the PDBs spinning? hmm...
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These are the big un's then. Can I get a reference pic of the little buggers?
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Damnit!
Redownload the max file again, I fixed the size of the barrels so they more closely match the picture in Boltes post.
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To make this simple, if the model is orange, you have the right one, if not, redownload.
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Madness?
(http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/staff_images/Galactica/BSGTurret3.jpg)
(http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/staff_images/Galactica/BSGTurret4.jpg)
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If Subobject LOD's were implemented this could be possible!... hint hint
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Nice! Some struts on the turret cockpit and textures to match with how they look in the show would be nice :)
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You need the recoil of the barrels too! So test the subobject animation code with it! hint hint
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I don't think thats the latest model... (was it orange?)
The old ones had some problems with things not being sized right and not being centered.
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BTW, can I get some reference shots on the Vipers firing their guns?
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And yes, it is madness.
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And that model really needs custom UVed textures...
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Naw, what was I thinking? The PDBs are 4-rail things. They don't have the same structure as the big ones, more like big box that pivots a bit. Only decent pic I'm using is this (http://www.starshipbuilder.com/bsg2003/BSG_Apr28_004.jpg). I know it looks like two rails, but I'm sure it's 4. Had to use a vid I, err, acquired to be sure. I wouldn't want to try pics, too low res. Took me a lot of views to be sure.
So...what are thinking about doing for the PDBs? That's a lot more guns than I've ever seen anyone put on a ship. In any game.
As to what these guns are, they are offically called railguns as far as I know, and I'm sure they do fire physical shells rather than 'plasma bolts' or some other standard of TV/movie sci-fi, but how they actually function and what relation they have to modern-day railguns is unclear. Judging just by visuals it looks like they're using boring-old chemical propulsion (can anyone else think of a reason for the flames?), and though my education in electromagnetics is sorely lacking it's been pointed out to me that three rails at 120 degrees isn't a workable design if you're making what we call a railgun.
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Actually one rail would be perfectly feasable for a railgun, were there some effective way of getting a projectile to actually stay on a single rail. All it needs is a conductive coil that will produce a magnetic pulse running from one end to the other and you've got the means of delivering the necessary force to the bolt; additional rails would theoretically provide physical stability as the bolt slides out but not much else.
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Hey Omni, make sure you shrink the base on the turret so it matches this:
(http://www.starshipbuilder.com/bsg2003/BSG_Apr28_004.jpg)
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Actually forget it, I'll just remodel the turret.
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Wait a sec, do those turrets pop out when they fire? I don't see how they could aim up if they didn't.
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There's a very nice sequence at the end of the miniseries when they come out of the dust cloud that has a nice closeup of some turrets. I think it shows them popping out when they fire, and doing something with the barrels. It looks pretty cool. :p
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Damn!! Theres 8 more mounted in the front! How should I handle the smaller turrets? I don't think modelling them is realistic, considering their numbers.
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little blocks with little textures on them
edit: or, maybe just a little 3-rectangle business, i can do textures to pretty that up
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What do they look like?
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I'm thinking 3 rectangles.
Progress on new "big" turret. I decided to use some more polies to pretty is up because:
A. Its highly visible.
B. There are not as many of these guys.
Polies stand at 553 (triangulated).
(http://server2.uploadit.org/files/DeepblueWA-turretnew.JPG)
Get the model below:
http://www.freewebs.com/expeditions/BSGturretnew.max
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Originally posted by WeatherOp
What do they look like?
Look at the pic above and look between the ribs.
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Originally posted by deep_eyes
um dude, theres more than 3 railguns. mind u the ship itself i believe has 20+ lateral (the pontoons) turrets-but these arent the same size as the above turrets, theyre more like the colossus side turrets or the diemos's mini-turrets, the 4-8 on the top and the 5-or so on the bottom of the battlestar.
he means the rails on the guns, not the railguns on the ship. According to his picture, there are only 3, not 4.
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yeah i should have read the thread before posting stuff out of my ass
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Yes, you should. :p
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if there are too many small turrets you could probably get away with having a small pyramid (with the bottom face cut off to save polies). Not even having any barrels or anything.
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Hmmm, would it be possible to have the turrets "pop out" before firing (using Bob's animation code)? That would be sweet!
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YES... it would... that and subobject LODs. Bob? :)
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*wishs someone would spend this much time and effort doing the original, the true (!!) BSG*
:sigh:
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Oh boy.... FINE!!!
Here is something I started a couple of days ago:
(http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/staff_images/Old Viper/oldvip.jpg)
(http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/staff_images/Old Viper/oldvip2.jpg)
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Mk. 1 for the mod? (yes I know its an original mk. 2 but you could use it as a mk. 1)
:D
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Yes, this model will be used in the mod, at least the teaser campaign. If you watch the mini-series carefully, you DO see her in the museum scene in the background.
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God, I missed those Toilet Rolls ;)
Looking Good Omni :)
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IP is gonna love you for that :nod:
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BTW in the NEW BSG game you STILL go back and use original MK I as well as the Colonial Bomber, plus the original Galactica cause you are Lt Adama back 40 years ago in the Great War. So they still used the designs they just dumped the main story elements. I'll pick up the game probably next year as I have a list to get through first...
Oh I almost forgot. How about missile ports that animate, opening and closing for the anti-capship nukes? I'm not sure how many the new Galactica has but the old one had like 2-4 tubes per side they fired as a broadside. Plus the Two Anti-Capship bow beams (rarely used as they were so power intensive).
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So, Omni, are you going to texture those turrets or should I make it my first texture job?
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By all means, go for it. Just give me your final textures, and I'll encorporate them into BSG's main texture files. I'm trying to keep at most 4 large texture files for the BSG. It helps keep vid memory usage low.
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i had an idea for the old Gal
just wait for it, i'll show it tomorrow, i say screw tiles, i m gonna make a huge-ass map
you said "most detailed ship ever", im gonna go all out
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Wohoo, I'll wanna see it tommorow. So, expect me to ask.:D
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Heh, I can't texture worth beans yet. You should go ahead and texture it.
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Does anyone have a reference shot of the Viper opening up with its guns?
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And BTW, you can delete the box on the left of the turret middle. It shouldn't be there.
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Deepblue:
(http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~freespace/forums/images/edit.gif) (http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~freespace/forums/editpost.php?s=&action=editpost&postid=632345)
Turumbar: If you're using one large map for the ship, you're going to lose detail. Your best bet would be to do several large maps, much like the Leviathan, but to the maximum size allowed. (My card, for instance, only handles a 2048^ map, and I think most people's are the same way.)
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@Turambar:
Could you use some of the shots (http://www.starshipbuilder.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000001.html) to do a UV map?
Using those pics I got a good top down view of the turrets. Go ahead and redownload the last file I posted.
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I just wish FSO supports detail textures. In that case we can have both UV and tiled details overlayed on top of each other. Bob, any possibility to such a feature? Thats how I apoach texture creation in photoshop. I have a 128x128 layer of tiled texture underneath a larger map to give it details up close. Its getting difficult keeping all the tilable textures consistant in size.
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I'm using the reference shots to make really big, really detailed textures of various parts of the ship
yes, there will be multiple maps
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Bobboau hasn't even posted in this thread, yet he's got 5 questions directed at him. :lol:
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Rule of thumb #1 about texturing: the more models a ship has, the slower it renders.
If I were making the BSG though, I'd probably go for making the each bay and then the main hull separate subobjects. That way the submodel animation code could be used to extend and retract them, and each one of them could use the submodel LOD code. The Galactica's large enough that you might be able to get away with having one pod at one LOD, and the other, more distant, one at a lower LOD.
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ok, the texture won't be see-able tonight, its too friggin' big
its the top of the Gal, and the side struts for the pods
then im gonna have the very front and some tiles
next texture will have landing bay interior, runway, and launch tubes
then the last one will be the bottom
the rest will be tiles, which will be included in the textures
what have i gotten myself into
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lol. A crapload of work.
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Originally posted by Goober5000
Bobboau hasn't even posted in this thread, yet he's got 5 questions directed at him. :lol:
maybe that's why he hasn't posted :p
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Assert( Num_Bobboau_requests < 5);
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Is there a way I can increase the rate of fire on a capship turret?
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Yes...
In the area called $fire wait: put a time that you want to pass before each new shot is fired.
So for fast firing weapons you put a small number in.
For slow firing weapons you put a big number in.
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You'll also need to increase its Accuracy rating for its particular AI level.
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Thats 73 turrents implemented, thats 60 percent done and still going.
(http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/staff_images/Viper MkII/GalBarrage.jpg)
(http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/staff_images/Viper MkII/GalBarrage2.jpg)
(http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/staff_images/Viper MkII/GalBarrage3.jpg)
Still tweaking alot with this. You should see this baby in action. Screens don't do squat for these scenes. If you saw the enemy supression barrage in Mini-series, it looks pretty much the same. We now need a custom graphic for our ammo.
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:yes:
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:jaw:
Man I can't wait to fly through that :)
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That what I call a good crossfire...also nice model.
Can't wait to see when its finished.
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Whered da shinies go?
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And you're going to make all those weapons flak right? :devil:
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Originally posted by Deepblue
And you're going to make all those weapons flak right? :devil:
Not all of those were flak in the show. All of the small turrents seem only to shoot shells (explosive tipped??), while the turrent seem to shot shoot flak shells.
At least, that's how it was shown in the battle at the the end of the pilot episode.
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183 turrets implemented.... with unexpected results.
I guess each turret takes up a cpu cycle because my usual 80-120 fps has been reduced to 10-24 fps. I was surprised a model with 183 turrets even converted. I checked Fred and it shows only ~120. Not all the turrets are even firing. I set the normals to all the turrets... so much wasted time! :(
Either way I think I'm gonna have to compromise and settle with MUCH less. Say around 30.
I'll have a video sample of my test in 20 minutes.
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As I understand it, multipart turrets are limited by the MAX_ROTATING_SUBMODELS limit; I bumped this in my latest build, it should also tell you if you're over the limit with a debug build.
It'd be nice to profile the code with this model, or at least know whether the dramatic speed decrease is because of the number of turret AIs, or if it's from actually rendering them. I'm sure the AI turret code could be optimized.
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Only 23 of the 183 are rotating turrets. Even when they're NOT firing, the BSG in a scene by itself, reduced my max FPS to ~30. The actuale base model is no more than 20 polygons.
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Video still uploading... it will be 17mb using quicktime format with mpeg4 compression.
Here are some model screenies
(http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/staff_images/Galactica/BsgGuns.jpg)
(http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/staff_images/Galactica/BsgGuns2.jpg)
(http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/staff_images/Galactica/BsgGuns3.jpg)
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This is a 17mb video, so dial-up folks beware.....
You'll need quicktime.... tell me if it works
http://www.penguinbomb.com/omniscaper/WIPS/BSGturrets.mov
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AHA!
#define MAX_AIFFT_TURRETS 60
ship_subsys *aifft_list[MAX_AIFFT_TURRETS];
float aifft_rank[MAX_AIFFT_TURRETS];
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And that code means?
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your link is a bit borked up omni. It's got the ...'s in the URL
Edit: Lets do the time warp again!
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Originally posted by Omniscaper
http://www.penguinbomb.com/omniscap.../BSGturrets.mov
Um... fix your link.
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Done
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Sounds like the number of usable turrets is capped at 60. Explains what happened to the Colossus.
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http://fs2source.warpcore.org/exes/latest/fs2_open_bsg_d.zip
Try that build; after further inspection it looks like that limit controls the maximum number of subsystems a turret can cycle through to find a target, though.
I also made some optimizations that should speed up the turret AI code a lot when operating with no enemies present. Whether that'll be noticeable, I dunno.
If you want a release build, I'd be happy to compile one.
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Does that build have your latest cool stuff?
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Of course. :D
I think I did a CVS update before I built it, too.