Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: willy_principal on February 24, 2005, 10:33:21 pm
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how is the Freespace 2's society???
the mankind transformed into one single culture?
or viceversa, the different envoriments have produced even more different cultures???
In FS1 and FS2 i saw these ethnics groups:
1- asiatic (Station Rivera's operator? FS1 intro movie)
2- african (Command from FS2)
3- western european.
all of them talking USA's style english...
what about the arabs...and many others existing ethnic groups...and future existing groups...
a low-gravity planet would make people taller (not immediately..of course)
a high-gravity would do the contrary...
i'm not really sure what effects would do to people a dry enviroment, a wet enviroment, one cold, one warm...
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Since people have only been living in the outer systems of the GTVA for something like 70-80 years by FS2, I doubt there'd be time for planetary effects on the people living there. Everyone does speak American English, but whether that's just the required language of the GTVA military or more general to the rest of Terran society isn't exactly clear.
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It's very plausible that american english is the standard language for the GTVA military personnel...
...but, i wonder...remember when Command let Bosch escape (mission 3?).................in such ocassions, one (the pilot that says that Command let Bosch escape) would talk in his primary language....
either his primary languague was american english or.............he wasn't angry enough......
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Originally posted by StratComm
Everyone does speak American English
Unless you have the german version of the game. :p
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maybe they doesn't all speak american english. vasudans don't ,but we can understand them cause of the translator.
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Or maybe a one point of Freespace's history the Americans (or germans - depending on your version) conqured the world.
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Or maybe it's all in one language for the sake of easy understanding for the player?
(actually, the FSRef bible defines english as the standard Terran 'spacer' language IIRC; a bit like English is for current-day ATC).
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Or you have a screwed up translator and instead of everyone sounding normal, everyone is yanks (shudders).
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Found it in the ref bible;
[q]Terran-Vasudan communication was relatively easy to establish, despite the fact that Vasudan vocal cords are unable to make the sounds needed to produce the English language (now refered to as “Terran Standard” by spacers). [/q]
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They speak American English because [V] had no British voice actors.
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Originally posted by Cabbie
Or maybe a one point of Freespace's history the Americans (or germans - depending on your version) conqured the world.
you can conquer the world...but you can't force everyone to forget they primary language and teach them your own primary language...
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Originally posted by willy_principal
you can conquer the world...but you can't force everyone to forget they primary language and teach them your own primary language...
Did I say that the "conquered people" have to forget their own language? Forget no, teach yes. They simply will have to learn the language of their new masters. Just look at the former conquered colonies such as the Philippines (they know English, Spanish), Vietnam (French) or Hong Kong/Singapore (English etc). They know the language of their masters as well as their own native tongue
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Umm... I thinks that that there was this big unification war with all the major countries taking part. The war was fought on Land, Sea, Air, and most importantly, Space. Any country controlling space could easily fire down at any target on earth.
English (or German) becomes the standard language of Europe. Europe then allies with America to take over the world with their spacefleets. The survivors that speak a foreign tounge are forced to speak "Terran standard", this is all done for the sake of effieciency, so an interstellar society can always communicate with each other. This takes place just after the discovery of subspace when all the countries were fighting over the jump node. Think about it, any country that controls the node can reel in massive amounts of pofit with taxes, fares, trade agreements, etc. So it makes sense that every major country is so desperate to control the node.
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so...
languages dissapeared???
the only tongue known is english?!
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Yep. English and Vasudan. The newly formed GTA felt that everyone needed to speak english in order to communicate effieciently. So, they made it law. This change doesen't occur without rebellion of course, but the GTA quickly put them down with their new 2k warship (kick@$$ Orion Destroyer).
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so...
spanish
german
british english
chinese, etc...
are unknown to the FS2's Society...............how, sad...
i suppose that only the Elite of the Elite knows the forgotten languagues...just for, fun...or...curiosity...
The GTVA is in charge of interstellar exploration and colonization...
i wonder how does the GTVA colonize...i mean, err, they use some kind of genetical manipulation to adapt the colonizers to the new planet's enviroment??or somethin'?............they 'draft' colonizers...or they offer credits (money) for colonization...
Personally, i think that each Planet has his own government (like the greek city-states)...i'm not sure if there are international boundaries inside the planets...
What's more probable?
-A Central Government controlling the planet..
-A Federal Government controlling the planet...
-Several autonomous governments...
Each government surely keeps a 'Planetary Guard' (like the USA's states having National Guard....right?)
I wonder if this Planetary Guard is comprised of land forces only, or air-space forces too...
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I think they live in large biodomes, with the inside of the domes Earthlike with trees and all that. They also have gravity adjusters to simulate Earth's gravity. It makes sense that each planet has it's own government, but GTVA central government can easily overrule any of their descisions. About the planetary guard, I think the GTVA fleet is pretty much in charge of military stuff. The planet probably ownes civillian vessels for transportation, though. There probably woulden't be more than 1 government on any given planet unless there absolutley needed to be for some reason.
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What about the civilian population? Not everyone is in the GTVA Military, so what planets were just a 'new sol' for the time we were out of contact with earth?
Like a new earth, where a large (our main) civilian population, who calls the planet home, dwells?
If so how is the civilian ships?
Is it like FL where a good amount of the civilians have their own personal fighters? Or what?
Also how does the civilian\miltary news systems work? What companies go out and report?
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What about the civilian population? Not everyone is in the GTVA Military, so what planets were just a 'new sol' for the time we were out of contact with earth?
Like a new earth, where a large (our main) civilian population, who calls the planet home, dwells?
No planet can be a replacement for Earth, because even the most human-friendly planets lack the atnospheric components needed to support human life. So they probably live in large domes on the surface of Mars or Moon like planets. Inside these domes, there are entire cities of trade and manufacturing. Rich people live in homes somewhere in the domes, where poor people probably live in underground caverns beneath the domes.
If so how is the civilian ships?
Is it like FL where a good amount of the civilians have their own personal fighters? Or what?
Rich civillians may have their own personal herc or ulysees, but these civilians are in an extreme minority. Civillians usually charter Transports in order to go somewhere off planet.
The news network is a federal agency funded and operated by the GTVA. People that work for the news network are considered government employees.
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Originally posted by KappaWing
Rich people live in homes somewhere in the domes, where poor people probably live in underground caverns beneath the domes.
You've been watching Total Recall entirely too much :D
Personally I tend to agree with you in part though. The more newly colonised planets probably will be dome habitations. There should be a few that have been terraformed sufficiently well to allow people to live on the surface though.
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I'd also disagree with the statement that other languages are "forgotten." I'd be willing to guess that members of different ethnic groups would still learn their own languages, even as the children of immigrants who are born and raised in the US learn their own mother tongues today. Plus, we already know that the GTVA has to have a massive "Ship Naming" division to come up with all of the SD Whatevers; they'd have to be well-versed in ancient tongues. :p
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oh...yeah...i forgot that...you are right...
they must know greek, egypt and hindu languagues....at least the 'Department of Ships Denomination'.
and...it's very probable the posibility that the human population lives in domes...
However, Delta Serpentis and other system's planets should have been terraformed enough to let people live in the surface...
[EDIT] i just notices that i'm a Bakha!!! yehaw! [/EDIT]
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They might know the mythology translated into english with only the names of characters still intact in their origional language. For example "the mighty rakshashas were the minions of the terrible multi headed Ravana..."
And Congratulations, Willy! :cool::yes:
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Originally posted by KappaWing
"the mighty rakshashas were the minions of the terrible multi headed Ravana..."
this is true? or you made it up?
Originally posted by KappaWing
And Congratulations, Willy! :cool::yes:
LOL....you are welcome...
Is there any records of an intra-planet civil war...?
...i mean.
The government of a planet being overthrew, or one/more of its 'states' wanted to secede...or...something...that resulted in armed conflicts in the surface and air-space of the planet?
in the FS2 universe, the communism, socialism, fascism and nazism are kinda forgotten...
(there is some resemblence to the nazism-->Bosch and his Neo-Terran Front)
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this is true? or you made it up?
Yep. It's true. I read it somewhere in some origin of names section on a freespace reference website.
There is no stuff of intra-planet civil war other than my theory about the earth unification thing. It seems infeasable simply because there are not enough people on any given GTVA planet to revolt. Remember, living in biodomes is expensive. Many civillians probably live in orbital space stations. There was a revolt on a space station that occured in Derelict IIRC.
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I think that it's viceversa...
it's cheaper to live in a dome than to live in a space station...
in a planet's dome...you don't need simulate gravity, water might be collected from the planet and food might grow in the surface, and oxygen might be filtrated from the planet athmosphere...
in orbital space stations...they can't produce anything. Everything is brough by transports...
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True, but I doubt that a planet would be terraformed to the point at which humans can venture outside their bubble to breathe oxygyn or crops could be grown. It takes far more than 350 years to even begin to terraform a planet. In a space station, gravity doesen't need to be simulated if the space station is a rotating tire-like shape, with centripital force taking the place of gravity.
Technology has probably rendered growing crops in soil obsolete, but who knows? [V] never even hinted at how life was like outside of the military. FS scripts were always talking about colonies on planets and stuff and we never really got to see to much of them, so we have no idea how the colonists really live. IIRC the only colony we ever got to see was a Vasudan one in FS1. It was the command briefing ani where the Lucy blew up Vasuda prime.
I was shocked to learn that the Vasudans built buildings with cities just like Terrans do. It seems hard to believe that 2 species that never made contact throughout history evolved so similar too each other. Vasudans and Terrans both have two arms, two legs, walk erect, and have one head. (Technically, Vasudans have headz while Terrans have heads but you get the point :p.)
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It's a difficult question to answer, to be honest. We don't know anything about culture in the FS universe. It simply doesn't appear in the game.
I'd imagine that it'd be a fair bit more advanced than we are now - i.e. there's a bit of tolerance, and people tend not to stab each other in the back at every opportunity. I'd say bigotry would have pretty much disappeared (apart from the odd bit of anti-Vasudan feeling among Terrans), and religion would have been marginalised except in backwater locations like some areas of Earth and the oldest colonies (Mars, Europa, Titan etc).
As for languages, the idea that everyone speaks one language is not a sensible conclusion - everyone in the game speaks the same language, but that's so that the player can understand it, not because everyone actually speaks like an American. I suspect that English would be the "official" language for communications, because it is the current internationally agreed language for aerospace communications, air traffic control, the vast majority of space mission control (everyone except the Russians uses it AFAIK), and shipping communications. That is not a reason to believe that all other languages have become extinct, though - it's extremely unlikely that languages like Cantonese, Hindi, etc which have roughly a billion people each would simply disappear (especially over such a short period of time ~ 350 years)
I suspect civilians wouldn't move between planets too much, but there would a spacelines (like airlines) that provided travel between colonies, planets and systems. Companies and other large organisations would have their own pools of spacecraft to use, but I doubt they'd have anything as advanced as the equipment the Terran-Vasudan navies have. There wouldn't be much in the way of weaponry - maybe an ML-16 turret or two to deal with asteroids and debris, but nothing more than that.
I think each planet would have a governor or governing council, responsible for domestic and local affairs, including policing. The governing bodies would answer to the central GTVA government in Beta Aquilae, or maybe a "regional" authority (responsible for an entire sector or group of systems).
As for civil war, there's the NTF rebellion, of course, and what about the split of the GTA after the loss of Sol? There were several pretty much autonomous "states" until the GTVA was formed 20-odd years later(?), so there may have been sporadic or minor conflicts between the factions. The Vasudans are above all that, though, being a more advanced civilisation than the Terrans. They held together very well, considering the razing of their home planet and the loss of a considerable portion of their species.
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Sounds good! :nod:
As for civil war, there's the NTF rebellion, of course, and what about the split of the GTA after the loss of Sol? There were several pretty much autonomous "states" until the GTVA was formed 20-odd years later(?), so there may have been sporadic or minor conflicts between the factions.
We were talking about a civil war between two states on the same planet. AFAIK, there haven't been any instances of that on GTVA held planets.
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This is all very interesting.
I wonder what Sol would do after the loss of the node. Whould they freak out and ban space knoloage, or would the mass stock warships and bases around earth to perpare for shivans?
Would the GTA on that side split up into majior groups, IE: US, Brittan, EU, Russia, France, Span.. all with their sections and own warships. Then they (the above mentioned factions) would every now and then skirmish for space and possibly pull togeather in emergency.
Whats more likely.. anyone?
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Originally posted by Charismatic
This is all very interesting.
I wonder what Sol would do after the loss of the node. Whould they freak out and ban space knoloage, or would the mass stock warships and bases around earth to perpare for shivans?
Would the GTA on that side split up into majior groups, IE: US, Brittan, EU, Russia, France, Span.. all with their sections and own warships. Then they (the above mentioned factions) would every now and then skirmish for space and possibly pull togeather in emergency.
Whats more likely.. anyone?
The nationalistic (in Earth term) break up of the GTVA is not likely for several reasons:
In the sublight era - before ss-drives were invented - the initial colonisation of the Sol system probably started and Mars, Moon and the Jupiter belt were probably conquered to solve the homeplanet's massive ecological problems as well as to vent the massive overpopulation.
These colonists probably abbandoned their own nationalities or it is nothing more than a cultural flawor within a new nation/populaion.
The reason I state this is that a new environment of a different planet truely changes people, and unless they are 1st / 2nd generation immigrants their most basic and/or forming experiences are tied to a planet that is very alien to Earthers and therefore Eartherns cultures can only be applied to a degree.
(Read some of the stuff Kim Stanley Robinson wrote - Mars trilogy - to in depht what I mean).
Therefore at least these sublight colonists would be a considerable non-nationalistic population with different ideals and a different image of what a human planet looks like.
The other reason why your earlier theory won't hold as is:
The European civilisations number a lot less citizens than the rest of the world - if you want big ethnic groups the more likely candidates are:
Chineese
Indian
Arabic (with lots of flavors)
American (+lots of Euro flavors)
Russian
(+Jews - come on they survived intentinal genocide! Of course they will live on.)
These nationalities have a lot of people and therefore will be able to colonise on their own or maintain their integrity even in a new environment.
However I must attack the dome cities of new planets theory:
It is easier to live on a planet.
However from an industrial point of view, the gravity well of any planet is a drawback if you want to transport goods - and all the initial colonies are built to be exploited by Earth. Otherwise investors won't put their money into the venture.
Moreover the "nothing is manufactured in space" is the worst / most inane thing I ever heard.
Yes: you have no resources around Earth in orbit.
However all of the super/advanced metalurgy methods we experiment with nowadays call far a space foundry (...the one on the ISS is of Hungarian design).
Space in many aspects is the ideal place for industry - waste is easly handled, no ecology to bust up, perfectly controllable environment.
Beside if you think of a spacegoing civilisation most of its space assets would be sensibly built in space.
Moreover there is a lot of materials in space! That's why I wrote of the Jupiter belt as a liklely candidate of exploration/conquest - the asteroids are easy to tow, they are already in orbit, and they have all the metals / gases / water in great quantities.
IMHO most of the civilastion of Freespace lives on stations, on small moons, and in asteroid belts, since that's the best site for space industry.
The only exception is agriculture, which is why suitable planets are needed.
Most planets are barely terraformed, and at lest 60% of the population lives in space.
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Very agreeable :nod:
IMHO most of the civilastion of Freespace lives on stations, on small moons, and in asteroid belts, since that's the best site for space industry.
The only exception is agriculture, which is why suitable planets are needed.
These small moondwellers have to live in domes or walk around in their spacesuits all the time.
And wouldent growing crops in soil on a planet be obsolete by now? I thinks they grow them artificially somehow. Maybe they have these rooms on Arcadia installations where food is artificially grown.
Because no planet besides earth has flowing water, GTVA probably takes chunks of ice and unfrezzes them, or harvests nebular gases containing hydrogyn and somehow combines them with oxygyn to make water. The latter would probably only be available to the wealthy, as the process would be quite expensive, but that way the water would be completley pure.
the gravity well of any planet is a drawback if you want to transport goods
I think that the GTVA has anti gravity technology, as their artificial gravity has already been implemented on warships cruiser class and larger.
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Possibly of relevance to note that the GTVA has the ability to genetically engineer plants for terraforming and also use nanotechnology for the same purpose.
And the GTVA definately has anti-grav.
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Very good. Thakn you flahser for correcting me.
So asteroids have mass amounts of water? Arnt they just rock and metal?
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Possibly of relevance to note that the GTVA has the ability to genetically engineer plants for terraforming and also use nanotechnology for the same purpose.
And the GTVA definately has anti-grav.
...and sensible engineers.
Artificially generating 0.3-0.6 G for a warship, where the energy demand of the device would ammount to moving a couple hundred tons is one thing...
.....a device to work for an entire city is quite another.
The energy consistency priciple (I don't know if I correctly retranslated it) means, that whenever smg. falls in the field the kinetic energy it gained must be supplied by you.
The energy demand of such device for a city is buzzling....
....and no I don't think that an Orion has AG everywhere.
Though beside that small sippet from an interview we never saw any reference to ANTI gravity, only ARTIFICIAL -||-.
BTW who was interviewed? If it wasn't the concept designer / writer I don't think you can take all his words as proof even if he was part of :V:.
Moreover I'm still not convinced that the GTVA has true ARTI/ANTI gravity - for all I see they have a device that's capable of preventing things from floating in space.
With a true antigravity device there would be no point to using nuclear thrusters in the first place.
Moreover such a device could rip planets and moons in half with ease - and a Shathanes still seems a lot smaller than a planet. Therefore I doubt the GTVA has such advanced gravity science.
As for nanotechnology - with that availible the construction of the Collosus seems too slow and ackward. Moreover they would definitly use such technology against Shivans.
Once again it seems too advanced if you consider all its effects and application.
Genetic Engineered plants are quite possible though - however IMHO terraformation would still take roughly a century.
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Originally posted by Flaser
Space in many aspects is the ideal place for industry - waste is easly handled, no ecology to bust up, perfectly controllable environment.
don't forget crystals. in space, there are no minute geological vibrations that make growing crystals oh so hard on earth. in space, you could grow nearly perfect crystals, without which most of the GTVA's laser weapons wouldn't work.
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I'd imagine any large ship or station has its own hydroponics lab to at least produce some of the crew's food. If not, then resupply would be an absolute nightmare.
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I wonder what do people eat...
crew from ships probably eat some kind of artifitial rations...like the one in Matrix...
GOOD food is surely extremely expensive.
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Originally posted by Carl
don't forget crystals. in space, there are no minute geological vibrations that make growing crystals oh so hard on earth. in space, you could grow nearly perfect crystals, without which most of the GTVA's laser weapons wouldn't work.
That's the primary reason, though I didn't want to go into the whole explanation about supermaterials.
The reason why I think agriculture is still somewhat planetbound is the steep demands of an ecology - simply put is easier to let the plants and animals build it up for you than to artificially oversee the process.
Though for all we know there could be giant space colonies not unlike Gundam - though that seems like a rare occurance, since with habitable planets there's no point to creating artificial landmass.
Check out this site though:
http://www.dyarstraights.com/msgundam/frontier.html
It will put a lot of these spacestation/colony cocepts into perspective.
I also like the said site, for it also has some articles on the same notions (environment's effects on psyche and identity) that I and K.S.Robinos are so keen on.
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For the Reference Project and just promotion I also point you to my attempt at writting a RGP (in classical sense) for Freespace.
The thread:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,27808.0.html
The stuff itself:
http://www.geocities.com/flaser_01/freespacer.doc
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Originally posted by Flaser
...and sensible engineers.
Artificially generating 0.3-0.6 G for a warship, where the energy demand of the device would ammount to moving a couple hundred tons is one thing...
.....a device to work for an entire city is quite another.
The energy consistency priciple (I don't know if I correctly retranslated it) means, that whenever smg. falls in the field the kinetic energy it gained must be supplied by you.
The energy demand of such device for a city is buzzling....
....and no I don't think that an Orion has AG everywhere.
Though beside that small sippet from an interview we never saw any reference to ANTI gravity, only ARTIFICIAL -||-.
BTW who was interviewed? If it wasn't the concept designer / writer I don't think you can take all his words as proof even if he was part of :V:.
Nope, it was specifically 'Anti Gravity' and it was Adam Pletcher, who pretty much determined what was canon in FS (and wrote the Ref Bible).
There's also,of course, the Vasuda Prime scene as evidence of non-aerodynamic fighters & transports being able to fly in air to space seemingly without any downwards thrust to keep them upwards.
Originally posted by Flaser
Moreover I'm still not convinced that the GTVA has true ARTI/ANTI gravity - for all I see they have a device that's capable of preventing things from floating in space.
With a true antigravity device there would be no point to using nuclear thrusters in the first place.
Moreover such a device could rip planets and moons in half with ease - and a Shathanes still seems a lot smaller than a planet. Therefore I doubt the GTVA has such advanced gravity science.
You assume that there's a sufficient power source to do that, or a mounting base. Having a single piece of technological knowledge doesn't automatically mean you can do every conceivable thing with it, you know.
You also seem to be assuming that they'd want to use anti-gravity drives on larger capital ships for space travel. But who says that would be more efficient? Perhaps it interferes with subspace travel, as gravity plays an important role in inter-stellar nodes.
Originally posted by Flaser
As for nanotechnology - with that availible the construction of the Collosus seems too slow and ackward. Moreover they would definitly use such technology against Shivans.
Once again it seems too advanced if you consider all its effects and application.
Could also have used nanotechnology, I should have said. There's a post by (I think) daveb saying that he'd he liked the idea of using nanotech based weapons and defensive systems. Bear in the mind the FS1 & 2 engine couldn't portray that sort of thing, though.
Also, you're again assuming you'd have infinite applications for a technology; that once the principles are discovered you can do everything and anything. If you developed nanotech for terraforming, it doesn't necessarily mean you can immediately adapt that same tech into a weapon.
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Speaking of nanotechnology, the method in which your fighter's subsystems self-repair could be an example of it in use.
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Basically it comes down to this question. Would you have prefered [V] spend all their money fleshing out technicalities or on the plot and gameplay?
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All this is very interesting...
i have filled up many holes in my campaign's plot (HomeWorlds)
Which will be set in three different chapters: Human Nature - Black Sun - [Insert name here]
Human Nature tells the history of how the human nature produces conflict. The human is greedy by nature, the entire conflict set during the chapter is set around this.
Black Sun: this chapter is set during the conflict between the GTA and the shivans. The shivans' purpose and origins will be revealed.
[inset name here]: some spare ideas only...
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Originally posted by willy_principal
I wonder what do people eat...
crew from ships probably eat some kind of artifitial rations...like the one in Matrix...
GOOD food is surely extremely expensive.
oh geez, we already had a big long thread devoted to this.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
There's also,of course, the Vasuda Prime scene as evidence of non-aerodynamic fighters & transports being able to fly in air to space seemingly without any downwards thrust to keep them upwards.
I don't seem to recall anything beside the Horus in that cbanim, though if you uploaded it I could check out the details.
However the Horus is hardly what I would call a non-aerodynamic fighter.
Yes, it's not the best desing however with nuclear engines, even a very small lift factor would be sufficient.
You assume that there's a sufficient power source to do that, or a mounting base. Having a single piece of technological knowledge doesn't automatically mean you can do every conceivable thing with it, you know.
You're not clear on this one IMHO.
Actually energy is used so wrongly and in a mystified manneer by the media and unfortunatly teachers too, that I'm not suprised you made this mistake.
Force and energy are not the same.
When I exert force I don't have to expand energy - work or energy is only the movement x force. So with an object stainary against my force I don't have to input any energy into the system.
(The only reason why I have to strain my muscles and input power into a machince is that the force is created by a system that is not 100% effective therefore some of my input will continously bleed out as heat....however this ammount is miniscule...later you'll see why.)
You say I don't have the powerlevel needed to split a planet.
You also said I can maintain 1g on a ship.
However being able to do so means I can counter the full effects of a 1g gravitic field.
Think about it: that field is the sum effect of the entire planet! Gravity is that weak that it needs a lot of mass to create this effect. If I can counter this force this means I can create a field of my own that intersects with the Earth own an negate it.
There is no exessive energy demand or anything else - if it is true artificial gravity it will have the same range and power as normal gravity. Therefore a gravitic field of my own with a strengh of 1g will be able to completely nullfy the Earth's own.
I'm not splitting the planet yet, but there is no longer a cohesive force that keeps it together.
All I have to do is bore through it (there is no pressure, so I can cut it like butter) and send a H-bomb down the shaft....however if I think about it I don't even have to.
Even though I did nullfy the gravity field the thermic reactions still take place in the planet - and I just removed the force that kept it in check....it's blow time.
This is the reason why I demand people to propely see the issue of artificial and anti gravity - if truely done, with such effects these are already godlike powers.
That's why I'm adamant about the idea, that the system used on the GTA/GTVA ships is not true artificial gravity, but some phenomenon that fakes its effects.
You also seem to be assuming that they'd want to use anti-gravity drives on larger capital ships for space travel. But who says that would be more efficient? Perhaps it interferes with subspace travel, as gravity plays an important role in inter-stellar nodes.
In normalspace? I don't think so it would interfare and even if I couldn't use it in subspace it would still be magnitudes better than any other engine.
Reason? All other engines must use reaction mass where the limit on specific impulse is the speed of light - which is already the case with a gravity drive, since the effects of gravity travels at the speed of light.
It is already as good as any engine can get in term of specific impulse.
In terms of thrust this is the only drive that doesn't put structural tension on the ship, so there is no thrust limit! The reason is that gravity is a field force and as such has effect on the volume of mass instead an interaction surface.
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Originally posted by Flaser
However being able to do so means I can counter the full effects of a 1g gravitic field.
What 1g field? You're in space. You're not countering anything.
You forget also that gravity is a function of distance. And falls off depending on the distance from the center of mass. Even standing on Earth you're several thousand miles away from that. On a ship you'd be a metre or two away which means that the srength of the field required is much smaller.
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Originally posted by Flaser
I don't seem to recall anything beside the Horus in that cbanim, though if you uploaded it I could check out the details.
However the Horus is hardly what I would call a non-aerodynamic fighter.
Yes, it's not the best desing however with nuclear engines, even a very small lift factor would be sufficient.
There is... I forget the class name, but it's the transport with a sort of spoiler underneath (Satis?). IIRc you can see that bit as it flies into the screen, albiet highly blurred.
Originally posted by Flaser
You're not clear on this one IMHO.
Actually energy is used so wrongly and in a mystified manneer by the media and unfortunatly teachers too, that I'm not suprised you made this mistake.
Force and energy are not the same.
When I exert force I don't have to expand energy - work or energy is only the movement x force. So with an object stainary against my force I don't have to input any energy into the system.
(The only reason why I have to strain my muscles and input power into a machince is that the force is created by a system that is not 100% effective therefore some of my input will continously bleed out as heat....however this ammount is miniscule...later you'll see why.)
You say I don't have the powerlevel needed to split a planet.
You also said I can maintain 1g on a ship.
However being able to do so means I can counter the full effects of a 1g gravitic field.
Think about it: that field is the sum effect of the entire planet! Gravity is that weak that it needs a lot of mass to create this effect. If I can counter this force this means I can create a field of my own that intersects with the Earth own an negate it.
There is no exessive energy demand or anything else - if it is true artificial gravity it will have the same range and power as normal gravity. Therefore a gravitic field of my own with a strengh of 1g will be able to completely nullfy the Earth's own.
I'm not splitting the planet yet, but there is no longer a cohesive force that keeps it together.
All I have to do is bore through it (there is no pressure, so I can cut it like butter) and send a H-bomb down the shaft....however if I think about it I don't even have to.
Even though I did nullfy the gravity field the thermic reactions still take place in the planet - and I just removed the force that kept it in check....it's blow time.
This is the reason why I demand people to propely see the issue of artificial and anti gravity - if truely done, with such effects these are already godlike powers.
That's why I'm adamant about the idea, that the system used on the GTA/GTVA ships is not true artificial gravity, but some phenomenon that fakes its effects.
You're making your own assumption here; that localised AG technology automatically means every possible form is mastered and plausible. If the GTVA can master a localised gravity field within a ship, it doesn't imply to me that they can manipulate existing large scale ones. If, perhaps, the device used for anti-gravity has a high power use then maybe it can't be used for particularly large scale applications.
I would, of course, point out this is fiction. Technically I can make up any old **** and it counts, so long as it doesn't contradict accepted canon. And if V statements are canon, then FS has anti-gravity technology of some variety.
Originally posted by Flaser
In normalspace? I don't think so it would interfare and even if I couldn't use it in subspace it would still be magnitudes better than any other engine.
Reason? All other engines must use reaction mass where the limit on specific impulse is the speed of light - which is already the case with a gravity drive, since the effects of gravity travels at the speed of light.
It is already as good as any engine can get in term of specific impulse.
In terms of thrust this is the only drive that doesn't put structural tension on the ship, so there is no thrust limit! The reason is that gravity is a field force and as such has effect on the volume of mass instead an interaction surface.
Given that subspace offers instantaneous point-to-point (intrasystem) travel, I think anything that interferes with it would be ruled out. If the mechanics of entering subspace were in some way disrupted by an anti-gravity field of some sort; and there's no reason why not, given the vagueness of the information on subspace; then you'd automatically use something else.
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Originally posted by karajorma
What 1g field? You're in space. You're not countering anything.
You forget also that gravity is a function of distance. And falls off depending on the distance from the center of mass. Even standing on Earth you're several thousand miles away from that. On a ship you'd be a metre or two away which means that the srength of the field required is much smaller.
I'm not speaking about shipbound implementation.
What I say is if I can artificially create a gravity field with 1g strengh then I can negate the Earth's own and split the planet like a banana.
(There is no such thing as a localized gravity field for all we know - which makes the distance function arguement moot.)
Actually it is this distance fuction that ensures that the field is strong enough to completely nullfy Earth own.
No pun intended, but aldo_14 you still don't seem to get what I mean but karajorma is a lot closer to it AFIS.
Inside the planet's crust it's always the sphere below your fleet that acts on you, the reason is that the gravitic pull of a hollow speher isnside is nill.
Therefore in the very core of the planet the gravitic force is zero.
If I put another field onto a point of the crust with 1g strenght then it will be just as strong as the planets' own.
For all we know it works and seems to be just as strong as a real gravitic field.
It will have the same range as Earth's own therefore at the edge of the crust it will nullfy it, and as I go deeper it will weaken but with the same gradient as Earth's own.
It won't uniformly interact with it, but on the direct line between the core and the point where I made the field there won't be any gravity pull on the whole planet.
There is no whatsoever "range" or scale limit on a gravity field - and therefore there is no whatsoever reason why the GTA/GTVA couldn't apply this technology on this scale if true artificial gravity was discovered.
If the technology used of warships doesn't have the same interaction constant therefore range as ordinary gravitic fields or it is localized than you already have to admit this isn't a true artificial gravity but a "fake" one.
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Flaser, if you have a point source of gravity, at 4000 miles away from that point, you have 1 g, then that point has the same gravity as the earth. (note if the earth really were a point source, then if you stood at the very center of the earth than you would be crushed into a singularity, but that is not the case, since it stops acting like a point source when you go inside of it) so grav plating aboard a starship only needs to keep it at 1 g at a distance of however far below the plating is beneath the floor. if we say it is, for instance, 6 inches below, then it only needs to be one ten-millionth as strong as earth's gravity. covering the planet in such grav plating will only counteract the earth's gravity for 6 inches.
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Originally posted by Flaser
There is no such thing as a localized gravity field for all we know
and there is no proof that there isn't. Your entire argument hinges on the fact that you can't make a localised gravity field (Not that it's the only way to make AG anyway) but since we can't make ANY kind of gravity field nor have the faintest clue how to even get started it's a bit f**king early to start saying it's not possible.
FS2 has artificial gravity. Deal with it.
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Freespace isn't real life. It exists within the genre we know as "Science Fiction". This implies that the narrative, whilst grounded in or referencing certain real-life elements of science, is a work of imagination.
That's why you can hear explosions in space.
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Ravana and Rakshasha thing is from the Ramayana IIRC...