Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Neon on September 10, 2001, 05:39:00 pm
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Well? Any ideias? (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/confused.gif)
I think they won't release the source code for one reason:
They don't have plans for fs3... (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/frown.gif) in the present! That doesn't means that in the future (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif) there won't an fs3!
OR
Volition is planning to do another game with the freespace engine. Now that's something that will make me have an heart attack... And i'm 15!!!!!! (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/mad.gif)
Tell me your thoughts! (I want my games raven2001 (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/mad.gif) )
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No actually it's because Interplay hasn't given them legal permission to do so. No more, no less.
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Originally posted by Shrike:
No actually it's because Interplay hasn't given them legal permission to do so. No more, no less.
Thats what i told him in the topic below (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
And i mailed Adam pletcher about the source code maby he can make things abit clearer for people (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif) and read an e-mail from me to Adam in the toughts about alpha1 topic (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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[email protected] Staff member of
SOC Inferno,
can you defeat
the shivans?
Soc Inferno
Project Rebellion ("http://www.avengershome.co.uk/rebellionhtml/")
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iqc 102628858
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Actually it's not quite that simple. A company called Hyperion are currently porting Freespace 1 to AmigaOS (and possibly Linux). No doubt they made sure that Interplay weren`t going to release the source code for either game or it would kill their market.
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Well, the the question changes to:
Why the hell interplay doesn't gives permission to volition so they can release Freespace Source Code?
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Ups, we posted almost at the same time karajoma (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/redface.gif) . By the way, welcome to hlp (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif) . Thanks for the info. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
But the question remains... so... post your opinion! (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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they hate us.
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Originally posted by Carl:
they hate us.
Good Point (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
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[email protected] Staff member of
SOC Inferno,
can you defeat
the shivans?
Soc Inferno
Project Rebellion ("http://www.avengershome.co.uk/rebellionhtml/")
Gost of the past ("http://www.gotp.f2s.com/")
iqc 102628858
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Originally posted by Neon:
Well? Any ideias? (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/confused.gif)
I think they won't release the source code for one reason:
They don't have plans for fs3... (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/frown.gif) in the present! That doesn't means that in the future (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif) there won't an fs3!
OR
Volition is planning to do another game with the freespace engine. Now that's something that will make me have an heart attack... And i'm 15!!!!!! (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/mad.gif)
Tell me your thoughts! (I want my games raven2001 (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/mad.gif) )
Oh! It's Vasco! I though you were dead, since you say no word to anybody and have been acting like a baby since the vacations started..... and don't kid everybody, your only 14 (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif) 0wnt!!!
The answer to your Q is simple... your dad is politician, so you problably heard of burocracy? well, in Portuguese I call it Burrocracria(in english it means something like DUMBocracy (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)). Well, Interplay is full of burocracy, so they are allways saying and advancing things that they will never do... same happens with the source code.... its stupid I know...
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Carl, you got a point. They just want more money...
Kinda like Tomb Raider or Pokemon... from a cool game, to a marketing opportunity!
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And you Raven... Bring my games at around... 9:00 PM (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
I still want them!!!!!! (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/mad.gif)
or else
(http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/ninja.gif)
(http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/lol.gif)
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Seriously, I don't know why Interplay didn't just let us have it. What is the point?
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1) They are still making money off of it (hyperions port)
2) They are probably under a legal contract to not release it until hyperion have had a chance to make some money off of it.
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I Agree
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3) They figure, if they can't make money off of it then why should someone else? *gasp* They'd actually have to compete!
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"You know you've played Freespace too much when you're driving along trying to use countermeasures to shake off pursuing highway police." - Top Gun
Material Defender Studios ("http://www.mdstudios.f2s.com/index.html")
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Originally posted by Neon:
And you Raven... Bring my games at around... 9:00 PM (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
I still want them!!!!!! (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/mad.gif)
or else
(http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/ninja.gif)
(http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/lol.gif)
Oh... I'm soo scared!!! (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
No, really... Fallout is in Porto being burned by Rui, disk two broke on the trip... don't worry, because IF you would already gave me the E-mail of you dealer, I would already have a fresh copy of FOT for you, but because of your childish beahvior lately, I don't have it, so, no copy yet.... I'll give you RA2 when school begins(oh, man they're coming....)
Back to your Q: I can only get one thing out of this... Interplay sucks... but maybe with this fancy thing with Titus, we MAY be able to see a FS3 after all.... let's wait and see.... (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
Hey Setekh, I sent you a message over ICQ, you could at least reply to it......
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Originally posted by Raven2001:
Hey Setekh, I sent you a message over ICQ, you could at least reply to it......
Maby he was a sleep or doing homework<---- (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/evil.gif) word.And you also have what most HUMANS call a time zone (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
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[email protected] Staff member of
SOC Inferno,
can you defeat
the shivans?
Soc Inferno
Project Rebellion ("http://www.avengershome.co.uk/rebellionhtml/")
Gost of the past ("http://www.gotp.f2s.com/")
iqc 102628858
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Originally posted by MD-2389:
3) They figure, if they can't make money off of it then why should someone else? *gasp* They'd actually have to compete!
Actually releasing the source code would make some money for interplay. The data itself wouldn`t be released just the code for the .exe meaning that you`d still have to buy a copy to play the game (unless you stuck to user created campaigns)
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I dont get it either the Fs2 engine is severly outdated
but its probablly
greed
94336
Gr:-:-3d
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On Linux and AmigaOS it isn`t.
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Originally posted by Raven2001:
Hey Setekh, I sent you a message over ICQ, you could at least reply to it......
I've got no messages waiting for me here - and the last message that my ICQ has logged to have received from you is '**** , gotta go bye (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)'. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/tongue.gif)
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Lets not forget Interplay was taken over...and they are pretty much a non-entity right now.
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I wonder what the development time for the FS1/FS2 engine is, as compared with the development of missions, campaigns, ships, etc. (and let's not forget studio time for Robert "Admiral Petrarch" Loggia (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif) )
What is involved in the actual FS2.EXE? Here's what I can come up with, off the top of my head:
1. The 3d engine (rendering ships, weapons, stars, etc.)
1a. The collision detection stuff to determine if a weapon (or ship, or asteroid, etc.) has smacked a ship or it's shields.
1b. The HUD display.
2. The physics stuff to track where everything is, and how it's moving... also the turning times, max speeds, etc. of the various objects; handling damage to shields / hulls / subsystems, etc.
3. The AI stuff: how enemies and wingmates react to various events. This also would apply to aspect- and heat-tracking missles, I guess.
4. The parser(s) to read in the *.tbl files and make sense of them.
5. The mission engine to handle doing things that are supposed to happen -- ie interpreting the SEXP's
6. Network stuff and whatever else is required for MP missions
7. Everything else (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
7a. The in-game user interface -- handling input from the player (flying the ship, sending messages, using weapons)
7b. The "out-of-game" user interface -- briefings, selecting ships and loadout, etc. And the cool Vasudan cap-ship interface (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
7c. Sounds.
7d. Whatever else I forgot about.
My point (I do have one) is that most of these are not trivial, but neither are they insurmountable. It seems to me that a big chunk of the development by (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/v.gif) was developing the missions and other stuff that we already have in a usable format -- all the *.tbl and *.pof files.
If you look at the "bugfix of the day" at freespace2.com (I think) most of the stuff is mission related... Of course this could be because most of these posts were late in the dev't cycle (and the engine, etc. were already complete), or also because much of the engine stuff was ported with little modification from FS1.
So even if (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/v.gif) and/or interplay don't give up the souce, a determined bunch of developers could write it. BTW I am not volunteering to do this myself (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/tongue.gif) , but would be happy to assist...
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Hmmm...
Anyone here have much experience with Assembler language? I think my uncle might have an assembler 'decompiler' written, if I can get in touch with him that is...
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Originally posted by jonskowitz:
Hmmm...
Anyone here have much experience with Assembler language? I think my uncle might have an assembler 'decompiler' written, if I can get in touch with him that is...
You don't want to go this route... if you hack or disassemble the (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/v.gif) code, you are then violating the license agreement, etc. -- I haven't looked at the actual license agreement for FS/FS2 (who does?) but that's standard language.
If you want to write a new version (either open-source or closed-source, doesn't matter), and don't want to get sued, you need to have a "clean room" development environment. Your developers will write based on defined specs ("This is how the HUD should behave," "This is the format for ships.tbl"), but they can never look at the (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/v.gif) code, not even a little.
Anyhow, trying to comprehend a disassembled 2.3M EXE (that was probably written in C and/or C++ to begin with) would be way more challenging than writing a new one from scratch, IMO.
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Yeah, I know, you're right...
It's just a little frustrating that (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/v.gif) treats its fans and mod community like they're annoying pests at the best of times while the Homeworld staff and whoever did Half-life cheers and supports thier communities whole-heartedly.
I know I'm probably seeing this wrong but it's just the way it looks to me...
[This message has been edited by jonskowitz (edited 10-06-2001).]
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You're way wrong!!!
(http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/v.gif) is trying to get permission to release the source code, MAYBE, now with thq that isn't a big dumb a$$ like interplay(thq are little dumb a$$es (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)) we can get the code!
(http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/v.gif) guys are cool and care with the community (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by Neon:
You're way wrong!!!
(http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/v.gif) is trying to get permission to release the source code, MAYBE, now with thq that isn't a big dumb a$$ like interplay(thq are little dumb a$$es (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)) we can get the code!
hem, that changes nothing, since freespace is property of interplay, not THQ.
[This message has been edited by venom2506 (edited 10-07-2001).]
[This message has been edited by venom2506 (edited 10-07-2001).]
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Oops! silly me, spitting venom at the wrong people... sorry (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/v.gif) (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/redface.gif)
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Don't worry, I'm sure (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/v.gif) has heard your prayers... (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
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Originally posted by jonskowitz:
Hmmm...
Anyone here have much experience with Assembler language? I think my uncle might have an assembler 'decompiler' written, if I can get in touch with him that is...
Do you have any idea how mindbendingly tedious it would be to program any significant portion of a game like FS in assembler? Assembler is best kept for optimisation. It is possible but you'd need to be crazy or on crack (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by Maeglamor (edited 10-09-2001).]
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Originally posted by jonskowitz:
Hmmm...
Anyone here have much experience with Assembler language? I think my uncle might have an assembler 'decompiler' written, if I can get in touch with him that is...
LOL! (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif) It would probably be quicker to attempt to make an exact copy of the game than use a disassembler(or at least be pretty close)
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lol
Considering how much free time some HLP memebers seem to have I didn't think it would be much of a problem.
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Originally posted by Maeglamor:
It is possible but you'd need to be crazy or on crack (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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Well, darkage is both, so... (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
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(http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
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Originally posted by Setekh:
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Well, darkage is both, so... (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
I stoped useing space crack (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif) hmm..thats a lie (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif) And yes i am still insane and hott (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif) (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/lol.gif)
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Inferno,
Don't loose
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over it.
Soc Inferno
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iqc 102628858
Pizza rules over pasta!
Look at me i am a hottie
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Originally posted by darkage:
I stoped useing space crack (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif) hmm..thats a lie (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif) And yes i am still insane and hott (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif) (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/lol.gif)
I must report to GTVA police... Sorry man, they gotta to know were you got space crack... GTVA Admirals are needing some (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)