Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ghostavo on March 04, 2005, 05:12:42 pm
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4320111.stm
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I couldn't help myself laughing after I heard this, I know a man has died and I shouldn't laugh but I couldn't help it.
EDIT: Typos
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It's quite mind-boggling insane, really.......
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I was about to post the same story when i spotted this thread.
Those trigger happy fools... Imagine getting rescued after weeks of hardship, only to die at the hands of the so-called "friendly" forces. Berlusconni asked for an explanation and said someone has to be accountable for this, but we all know how it will end: a slap on the wrist of the platoon leader in charge of the checkpoint, maybe a demotion, and that´s about it.
The guy that died was the one who negotiated the release of the woman. I bet he was really ****ting his panths when he went to meet the kidnappers. Imagine his surprise founding out that the real threat to his life was on the other side of the proverbial fence...
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Congratulations, military:
(http://www.planetboredom.net/pix/data/media/10/flap7.jpg)
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*applauds*
You know, if she wasn't Italian, no one would even have noticed.
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Originally posted by Swamp_Thing
I was about to post the same story when i spotted this thread.
Those trigger happy fools... Imagine getting rescued after weeks of hardship, only to die at the hands of the so-called "friendly" forces. Berlusconni asked for an explanation and said someone has to be accountable for this, but we all know how it will end: a slap on the wrist of the platoon leader in charge of the checkpoint, maybe a demotion, and that´s about it.
The guy that died was the one who negotiated the release of the woman. I bet he was really ****ting his panths when he went to meet the kidnappers. Imagine his surprise founding out that the real threat to his life was on the other side of the proverbial fence...
I would be bloody scared if I was on patrol at night and some car came rushing at me and my squad. Sure the loss is tragic, but he should have known better NOT to stop when they were given fair warning.
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Well, if you're manning a checkpoint, in a city famous for suicide car bombings, and a car speeds at you (depsite numerous warnings to stop) wouldn't you fire at it ? I sure as **** would. Hell, I'd be reaching for the anti-tank stuff and calling in the 'choppers.
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Originally posted by Deepblue
I would be bloody scared if I was on patrol at night and some car came rushing at me and my squad. Sure the loss is tragic, but he should have known better NOT to stop when they were given fair warning.
Like they actually gave the fair warning they described :doubt:
"Miss, you're almost back home, but I'm sorry, there's a US army checkpoint in front of us, so to add some more fun, we'll break through, some adrenaline before the flyingback, you know?"
Come on.
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Originally posted by Nico
Like they actually gave the fair warning they described :doubt:
So the U.S. Soldiers say
"Car. It moving! We're in a dangerous city! All guns FIRE!":doubt:?
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Originally posted by Deepblue
I would be bloody scared if I was on patrol at night and some car came rushing at me and my squad. Sure the loss is tragic, but he should have known better NOT to stop when they were given fair warning.
I believe the standard hostage retrieval process is to take the hostage and run like hell; don't stop at roadblocks, becuase it might be an ambush. From what I understand, it was fired at before it reached the roadblock, so it's unclear if it had the chance to stop anyways.......
Regardless, someone really ****ed up on the organisation here.
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Originally posted by kietotheworld
So the U.S. Soldiers say
"Car. It moving! We're in a dangerous city! All guns FIRE!":doubt:?
Oh, coz it never happened? :p
yes, laugh if you want, but I believe this is EXACTLY what happened :p
Like an italian secret agent or whatever would just ignore a US checkpoint and gunfire directed at him, in a country in near state of war.
Ah well, of course these people couldn't lie, could they :doubt:
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Originally posted by Nico
Oh, coz it never happened? :p
yes, laugh if you want, but I believe this is EXACTLY what happened :p
Like an italian secret agent or whatever would just ignore a US checkpoint and gunfire directed at him, in a country in near state of war.
Ah well, of course these people couldn't lie, could they :doubt:
I agree with Aldo for once, they probably thought it was an ambush and just kept going.
They must have thought they'd have more chance of survival running a gauntlet than stopping and risking being shot.
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Has anyone noticed how this war's name has evolved?
War Against Iraq
War In Iraq
War For Iraq
Stuggle in Iraq
Struggle against Iraq
and now....
The Struggle For Iraq....
:lol:
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You missed the earlier
The Struggle For A Reason We're In Iraq.
That one ended as blame the Brits for giving us bad info.
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The article continues aparently:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4320961.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4321913.stm
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I was going to post this when I got back from my trip too, but someone beat me. :)
Stupid yank army, too many poorly trained, too many under 20, too much inexperience.
The story seems different to what we got here too. Probably censored as much as possible.
But the secret service guy that died had thrown himself over her and took the brunt of it and died. She took a hit in the shoulder and is in hospital at the moment I think.
This wouldn't be the first time they've made a balls of things though...
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I posted about this article on another forum, sadly with a bunch of ultraconservatives who screamed about my being "un-American" and gave a lecture on "How dare I post something that refers to criticisms of the US until I die for Her!" (with a capital "H")
*sigh*
My main question is why are they shooting at the engine? Police are trained to shoot the tires, and I assume that a military in an occupation would have similar training?
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It was a probably a bunch of fresh recruits for a seemingly simple task.
Inexperience and jumpy nerves can cause so much BS these days.
un-american is fine by me. Especially seeing as I'm not American. :p
But that is more ignorance than patriotism. There is so many silly people in the world it's scarey. Mind if there were more smart people it would probably be worse. Humanity wise anyway.
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Its not really too complicated. The policy is "shoot anything that moves", I would have thought that would be apparent after nearly two years and who knows how many civilians gunned down.
The only reason that this is getting the attention that it is, is because she was Italian and a recently freed hostage at that. Otherwise, it would probably hardly have even made the news.
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Everyone knows that the Americans do not like negotiations to free hostages, and because of this I don't see why I should exclude the possibility of me having been the target
Giuliana Sgrena
Ex-hostage
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4323361.stm
Apparently, she's saying there is the possibility that she might have been intentionally targeted. And Italy is of course mighty pissed off that one of their secret service agents is now dead.
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"When the driver didn't stop, the soldiers shot into the engine block, which stopped the vehicle, killing one and wounding two others."
what did they fire at the engine block is what i want to know... a damn bazooka? because it penetrated into the cab too obviously.
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I suspect they actually just sprayed the car with bullets until it stopped...
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Has anyone else noticed the fact that the journalist is a writer for Il Manifesto? The whole intentionally target thing is stupid.
(how is someone supposed to shoot the tires out from a car coming directly at them anyway?)
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I love the easy way you disregard the possibility just because she's on the opposite end of the political spectrum from you.
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She comes across as fairly calm after such an incident.
If it were me, I'd be extremely aggrovated.
Where she says her captors warned her about some americans not wanting her to come back, that raises a few questions.
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Originally posted by Deepblue
Has anyone else noticed the fact that the journalist is a writer for Il Manifesto? The whole intentionally target thing is stupid.
(how is someone supposed to shoot the tires out from a car coming directly at them anyway?)
I don't know, you would have to ask the military, since they claim its standard operating procedure and the way they handle every all incoming cars that fail to stop. Now personally, I think its bull****, but if they're claiming that that's what they do, then surely they know a way.
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Maybe they had a bet on to see if they could make the car blow up like in the movies? (yee haw.... and soforth)
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Maybe they had a bet on to see if they could make the car blow up like in the movies? (yee haw.... and soforth)
Hehe, maybe. Maybe...
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Originally posted by aldo_14
I believe the standard hostage retrieval process is to take the hostage and run like hell; don't stop at roadblocks, becuase it might be an ambush. From what I understand, it was fired at before it reached the roadblock, so it's unclear if it had the chance to stop anyways.......
Regardless, someone really ****ed up on the organisation here.
Plus that adding to fact that some US troops are somewhat trigger-happy, plus a car speeding towards you while you guard a roadblock (which might not be very visible, stupid accidents have happened before) is not a pretty sight in Iraq.
Two mistakes, both understandable = bodies
Edit: apparently American checkpoints also suck gigantic balls. http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0307/p01s04-woiq.html
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It's a sad accident, but as said, if you're an American checkpoint in the middle of Iraq and a car comes speeding at you without stopping or signaling, it would be logical to stop the car. It's the difference between an article about a carbomb killing 5 soldiers and wounding 10 or at a checkpoint or whatever and one Italian Secret Service agent dying. Both sad, but you can't exactly blame them for being "trigger-happy" in the middle of a warzone where the enemy crashes exploding cars into you.
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She mentioned somewhere along the line that there was no checkpoint that they could see, they were driving along at a normal speed, turn a corner and then a tank starts opening up with the machine turret.
If that's true then it was just trigger happy fools.
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I think that it's pretty confusing.
Of course, newspapers here in Italy talk only about that incident, but I've read so many different versions.
Us army say they advised before opening fire, and that the car was driving too fast, but both the kidnapped and the italian officers say that the car wasn't proceeding fast, that they had been stopped by other checkpoints before, that the us army was advised of their presence, and that they got no advise before the fire.
The most crazy thing, btw, is that they were talking with the government using the mobile phones at the moment of the fire, so Berlusconi, his collaborators and the husband of the kidnapped journalist heard everything.
They also say that after the attack the targets were immediatly recognized as western people but althought that it took a lot for the soldiers to come in aid to the injured and the first thing they did was to close the phones.
Anyway, whatever happened, the tragedy is that a man died and it happened at only 700 mt from the airport.....
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Very suss indeed...
I wonder if Italy will consider pulling out of Iraq now.