Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: sfried on March 04, 2005, 06:36:19 pm
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Hello. I guess this is the wrong thread to introduce yourself, but anyways...
I have a Toshiba m200-S810 with a 1.6GH Intel Centrino and 512MB of RAM (expandable to 2 Gigs), which comes also equipped with a nVidia GeForce FX 5200 32 MB...updated drivers, of course (the other Tablets come equiped with an integrated graphics card). I've succesfully installed FS and FS2 with no problems and even use he stylus for control (doesn't beat a joystick, though), and also did the appropriate reg-edits to fix the graphics card issues, dissappearing stars, etc. Like the guide at Freespace Oracle, I've set anti-aliasing to application and there hasn't been a hitch.
Only one thing, though: How do I get to make the visuals look as good as what most people posted here? It looks like they forced anti-aliasing or added some lighting effects or something. I've been trying to get the most out of graphics card (runs FS smoothly and FS2 at 1024x768 32 bit color around 50ish fps, which isn't bad considering the 'jump' I've made with my previous computer...sorry for the pun...), but forcing AA just causes that text glitch most people speak about, but leaving it on app doesn't really make use of the AA at all. Does anybody know how to get the most out of my FS/FS2 without having to download FSO? I know it sounds strange, but from the looks of it, other people seem to be able to get their graphics cards to pump better visuals and they sometimes have a lower end GFX card than what mine has... any more regediting needed? (Also did the hi-res trick, but I didn't go through trying to hack FS for the textures and all of the other FSO related hacks.)
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the reason the pics here are so pretty is due to the power of FS2 open. Retail FS2 is simply not powerfull enough to run all those features, not to mention simply doesn't have them in it's code. You're at it's limits as it is, and without directly programming the source code itself, I doubt there is much ways to improve it.
The reason FS2 open looks so much better is because those lighting and other effects have been added in, not to mention the extra artwork has been created to specially use it's HTL engine. It can be run on lower end GFX cards, so it should run on yours fine.
If you're afraid to use FS2 open, at least read the full description that can be found Here (http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~freespace/fsdoc/) as well as a start-up guide on how to use it. It also contains a full description of flags and features currently available (although it is a little out of date). For a more comprehensive list of features, you'll have to search around the recent build forums (http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~freespace/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=97) and see the release information for each build in that particular thread.
If you're looking for specific builds, then the latest one is here (http://fs2source.warpcore.org/exes/latest/C20050302.zip), however it's a bit unstable, and the most recent stable one is dated around hte 3rd of Jan, 2005, which can be found here. (http://icculus.org/~taylor/fso/testing/20050103-win32.zip)
Hope that helps.
Oh, and welcome to Hard Light Productions :)
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yeah it's kinda hard to get FSO features to work if you refuse to download FSO.
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I see.
I've read the downloading instructions, but it seems to me there's alot of hacking to be done...and slipups can be a problem, too.
Also, I have the problem of being able to play the main game "normally." It seems many peole who use FS2Open get glitches in certain areas of the Main Campaign.
Is there a self-extracting FS2 Open file that would help "install" itself?
And thanks for the links, Singh.
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3.6.5 installer:
http://scp.indiegames.us/download.php?view.50
Extract these to your main FS folder (They're self-extracting RARs):
http://scp.indiegames.us/download.php?view.54
http://scp.indiegames.us/download.php?view.51
http://scp.indiegames.us/download.php?view.53
If you really want higher-quality effects, download this file. With an FX5200 I wouldn't really recommend it though.
http://scp.indiegames.us/download.php?view.60
If you run into bugs:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,29938.0.html
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no one beamed him.... can i can i?!
oh shoot... aldo_14 already did it...
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A Couple of More Questions:
Are there issues using FSO_3.6 with the main Campaigns? Compared to 3.6.5? Is there any way the main game and campaigns will run bug-free? I read that a certain bu persists when playing on very easy (in 3.6.5), and I still plan on playing the main campaign so I might not want to install any of it yet...
And as for the installation: Does it completely overight your FS2 game executable? Does that mean I could no longer play "normal" FS2 once I've installed? I was thinking of backing up the original fs2.exe file but then I don't know if simply overighting the preexisting FSO FS2 will simply work in reverting it back to it's original version? Or does it make a separate executable completely?
I still haven't mastered all that much of FRED (heck, hardly ever touched FRED2 yet) so I dunno if I should first practice building missions on "normal" FRED before attempting to switch to FSO FRED (or FRED 2).
Edit: Also, I saw some poster here make a custom-made jump vortex. Can I immidiately use it or do I have to have FSO? (Saved it as a .ani file)
Edit 2: One last request - Any pic comparisons between regular FS2 and FSOpen? Say from this mission?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v283/sfried/FS2.jpg)
I just want to see what I am (or could be potentially) getting.
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You can always play normal FS2 by removing running the normal FS2 exe. as long as you clear out any unoriginal modded VP files and un-compressed mods in the data folder from the main FS2 folder (as these mods may utilize features put in by the SCP and not supported by the original exe).
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You won't be able to use the new features in mediaVP, or SCP-enabled campaigns, but everything that worked with retail FS2 should work with SCP.
Everything FSO is an addition and makes no modification to the retail FS2 data, with one exception - pilot files were upgraded to fix bugs that occured when using multiple mods, and to allow one to play multiple campaigns with one pilot. These changes mean that a new pilot file won't work with the old FS2, so if you want to play FS2 and FS2Open, you should make a copy and only use one of the pilot files so the old one (with your settings) is preserved. FS2Open 3.6.5 will warn you every time you use a pilot file that it'll be converted; this is a bug, that has been fixed in later versions, a pilot file will be converted the first time you open it in 3.6.5
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Originally posted by sfried
Are there issues using FSO_3.6 with the main Campaigns? Compared to 3.6.5? Is there any way the main game and campaigns will run bug-free? I read that a certain bu persists when playing on very easy (in 3.6.5), and I still plan on playing the main campaign so I might not want to install any of it yet...
As far as I know there are no issues with FS2_Open itself. There are some problems with the media VP files but as long as you fix those with the work arounds I provided in my stickied thread you shouldn't have any problems.
Originally posted by sfried
And as for the installation: Does it completely overight your FS2 game executable? Does that mean I could no longer play "normal" FS2 once I've installed? I was thinking of backing up the original fs2.exe file but then I don't know if simply overighting the preexisting FSO FS2 will simply work in reverting it back to it's original version? Or does it make a separate executable completely?
I addition to what the other two say you will also have to run the FSO launcher and set all the command line options to off. But that takes all of 5 seconds to do :)
Originally posted by sfried
I still haven't mastered all that much of FRED (heck, hardly ever touched FRED2 yet) so I dunno if I should first practice building missions on "normal" FRED before attempting to switch to FSO FRED (or FRED 2).
The current version of FRED2_open has a few bugs that make mission creation a little harder when it comes to waypoints, briefing icons and visualising objects which are above or below the XZ plane. That said the new features make a lot of things easier so it's basically it's not much of a difference. FRED is still about 80% the same in both versions. You don't have to use the new stuff while learning so there's little danger of being overwhelmed.
If you really want to learn FRED once you've done the walkthrough take a look at the FRED Academy (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,28122.0.html)
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Originally posted by sfried
A Couple of More Questions:
I just want to see what I am (or could be potentially) getting.
You're familiar with the Hercules? (http://fs2source.warpcore.org/wmcscreenies/coming.png)
One of my favorite pics of the Perseus (http://fs2source.warpcore.org/wmcscreenies/derelict/perseusawesome.png)
I also notice there's an Arcadia and a Fenris or Leviathan in your picture (http://fs2source.warpcore.org/wmcscreenies/derelict/fenrisarcadia.png)
*Points to sig* :D
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:jaw: Those pics get me every time.
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So I could just launch FSOpen as a separate file without having to use/replace the VP files at all?
Oh, and nice pics WMCoolmon.:cool:
Edit: So I'm not so sure which version people are pointing me towards: 3.6.5 or 3.6? Seems to me most of you are pointing me to 3.6.5 and just let me hack the instability problems.
Originally posted by karajorma
There are some problems with the media VP files but as long as you fix those with the work arounds I provided in my stickied thread you shouldn't have any problems.
Which sticky? In your sig or here in this thread? I hope it doesn't involve any more regedits...
Edit 2: Installed... When running AA in 2x samples, I get the wierd "blue lines" glitch most people get... Edit 3: Mouse problem resolved. My fault on my behalf. My options have been resetted somehow...
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Press F2 and you can turn the mouse on. It's off by default.
As for the sticky I meant this (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,29938.0.html) thread.
You won't need to look if you're not using the media.vp files though.
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What about this problem (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v283/sfried/FSO_Bug.jpg)?
Edit 30052: I am using the media files... my God, it does make a difference... but one problem that bugs me is that the Ulesses looks all Christmas-y with all the lights, and the Herculese model doesn't load!
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Turn off the enable 32-bit textures option.
It's a real resource hog anyway and the problem is cause by a clash between it and antialiasing.
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The Herc models are still missing...
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make sure you have -jpgtga turned on,
you know... we realy should have that on by default by now, the only bugs we get from it are from people forgetting to turn it on, wich prety much everyone has to do these days.
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Yup, that solved it... pretty high-poly if you ask me, but damn... it looks good.
Originally posted by karajorma
Press F2 and you can turn the mouse on. It's off by default.
As for the sticky I meant this (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,29938.0.html) thread.
You won't need to look if you're not using the media.vp files though.
media.vps? What are those? (I know I've downloaded and succesfully put 3 vp files in the main FS folder, but I'm wondering what does that other vp file do?) And are those low-poly models contain the same texture detail but with lower-polys, right?
Oh, and finally, I remember someone posting a custom made jump vortex. How do I use the ani file he made? Do I put it in a directory or something?
(Sorry for all the questions... I can be such a n00b at times. Just don't want to crash my system)
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Originally posted by Bobboau
make sure you have -jpgtga turned on,
you know... we realy should have that on by default by now, the only bugs we get from it are from people forgetting to turn it on, wich prety much everyone has to do these days.
It's still useful if you have a lower-end system but want high-res textures.
Although I guess it might work better to just use pcx2dds instead then.
And about mediaVPs, see this thread (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,31069.0.html); in the second post down I start talking about mediaVPs. There's some major time warpage going on though. ;)
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I see... so basically the media files you were reffering to were the .mvs I had to "install" to get the purdy effects and such.
Originally posted by WMCoolmon
Although I guess it might work better to just use pcx2dds instead then.
pcx2dds?
Status: As for the missiond, I get some real bugging slowdown when you first meet the Iceni. Must be because of the asteroid chunk...
I have mipmapping on. Does anybody recommend this?
What does Compress PCX do?
And what about the WarpMap.ani file? How do I "use"/"unuse" it?
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PCX2DDS is the compress textures to DDS option somewhere in the launcher. It makes files take up less memory at the cost of quality, so it may give you a bit of a performance boost.
the warpmap.ani file should be put in the data/effects directory for it to work. But I'm not sure if that's the right name..
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Originally posted by WMCoolmon
PCX2DDS is the compress textures to DDS option somewhere in the launcher. It makes files take up less memory at the cost of quality, so it may give you a bit of a performance boost.
the warpmap.ani file should be put in the data/effects directory for it to work. But I'm not sure if that's the right name..
Yup. All worked... Got a performance boost, alright (was it because of that S3 texture compression some people talked about? First heard it during the GC's infancy... something about making textures look sharper. Also, is that what the "Texture sharpening" checkbox in the nVidia setup dialog box was all about?). Putting settings on "Performance" seems to do the trick. Aside from some minor hickups (I seem to be getting ALOT of harddrive access...heck, my tablet feels hot already), everything's playing nicely, if not a wee bit more difficult (something done with FSOpen that they tweaked enemies to become "smarter?").
Also, I'm not sure, but it seems mipmapping does improve performance quite a bit.
Now if only I could find FSO for FS1... that would be great, too.
And why doesn't the Herc 2 have a better model than the Herc 1? That's kinda odd, considering the Perseus got a facelift, too.
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there is an Ares model somewhat done, it's basicly a herc2 with wing thingys straped onto it, so... there you are then.
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Because the Herc 2 is a much harder job to high-polify. :p
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Originally posted by sfried
Now if only I could find FSO for FS1... that would be great, too.
http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~freespace/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=39
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Originally posted by Bobboau
there is an Ares model somewhat done, it's basicly a herc2 with wing thingys straped onto it, so... there you are then.
The version I have on my HDD is completely done, AFAIK. I think I may be only missing shields, which'd be nothing to import. I juat haven't gotten around to uploading it.
The cocpit and everything work on it, for me, as well. No floating pilot. :nod:
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Just one last question.
Can I still launch the standard FS2 using the original launcher, or do I need to remove, if not uninstall the whole FS2 package in order to watch the cutscenes, run the game from CD again, etc. (Standard FS2 stuff...). Basically now that I have FSO, I still want to go back finish what I started in FS2 without having to convert the file (I'd be missing out on all the cutscens).
And one last thing that's buggin me: You know the dialog box that asks you if you really want to quit FS2? Well, I'm experiencing some EXTREME slowdown on that part, as if it didn't want me to exit FSO or something.
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There are cutscenes in a format fs2_open can play...somewhere... (http://web.engr.oregonstate.edu/~plankerj/fs2movies/) ;)
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Originally posted by WMCoolmon
There are cutscenes in a format fs2_open can play...somewhere... (http://web.engr.oregonstate.edu/~plankerj/fs2movies/) ;)
Thanks \. Where do I put these?
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Anywhere FS2_Open can find them. Freespace2\, Freespace2\Data, Freespace2\Data\Movies. Really doesn't matter.
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Hmm... Ok.
Originally posted by WMCoolmon
Extract these to your main FS folder (They're self-extracting RARs):
http://scp.indiegames.us/download.php?view.54
http://scp.indiegames.us/download.php?view.51
http://scp.indiegames.us/download.php?view.53
If you really want higher-quality effects, download this file. With an FX5200 I wouldn't really recommend it though.
http://scp.indiegames.us/download.php?view.60
Why not just this (http://scp.indiegames.us/download.php?view.57)? Any of the other features buggy?
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ZPack basically contains everything. That means that if something slows down your PC your only choice it to download the individual packs anyway.
zPack will also set off the mv_Music bug because it contains the contents of that file.
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Originally posted by karajorma
ZPack basically contains everything. That means that if something slows down your PC your only choice it to download the individual packs anyway.
zPack will also set off the mv_Music bug because it contains the contents of that file.
Ah. Thank you so much for the forewarning. Almost about to install the sucker since it says "Contents optimized to take up minimum space". And I thought that might speed-up the loading process.
Oh, and I still think the cutscenes on the CD have better quality. Not bad for DivX, though. Could've expected better compression, but it seems like a useless endevour unless Volition hands out the source source FMVs they made in Adobe Premier or some professional format for someone to edit and extract into DivX. The artifacting on their "revised" FMV format is bad enough.
I hope somebody puts an optional "use CD media (FMVs, briefing animation, etc.)" function on later releases. I know most people would rather have the media files on their drives, but it really takes up alot of space, and I still want to enjoy playing FSO without missing out on all of the other options and "nuancess" of FS2. Other than that, and the Exit Dialogue Box slowdown, FSO could definately hold as a replacement.
Thanks guys for helping out an FSO n00b like me. Too bad Volitionboards has come and gone... (was once a member there)
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Now I know where I've heard that user name before! I was looking over old posts I saved from the VBB a little while back. Must have seen something you posted.
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Ack! The movies still don't work! I put them on the data folder/ data/movies folder, and they still wont play.
I feel like reverting back to old Freespace 2. Does the uninstall utility it comes with actually bring everything back to "normal"?
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You shouldn't need to uninstall anything, just move the mediaVPs to another directory and start the original EXE.
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Originally posted by WMCoolmon
You shouldn't need to uninstall anything, just move the mediaVPs to another directory and start the original EXE.
I don't know what you mean by that. (Move) all the .vp files to where? Freespace2/data?
Edit 2: Ah... I see what you mean... Try to separate FS2 from the .vp files... But I was planning on making a separate directory for FSOpen within the \Games directory, so it ends up something like
C:\Games\Freespace
C:\Games\Freespace2
C:\Games\FRED
C:\Games\FSOpen
Can that still work? Does FSOpen.exe still need to be within the \Freespace2 directory?
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Mmm, that's going to cause you problems. FRED needs to be in the same directory as the FS2(Open) VP files, and FS2Open needs to be in the same directory tree as FS2. Otherwise you'll end up having three sets of the retail VP files on the hard drive.
I think I see what you want to do though. Try this: Move FRED2(Open) to the Freespace 2 directory, along with the FS2Open EXEs. Place the mediaVPs in a folder under the main FS2 one, say, mvpdata. Now go into the launcher, click the features tab, press select mod and select the directory with the mediaVPs in it. Make sure you have the FS2Open EXE selected.
Now when retail FS2 starts up, it won't find the mediaVPs and you'll be able to play without any problems.
One thing left to do, pilot files (in the data/players/single directory). If you've already run FS2Open 3.6.5+ with your pilot files, unfortunately, you can't unconvert them to retail. If they're still in the retail format (The player files will have the .plr instead of .pl2 extension), make a copy of all the files starting with the callsign of the player you want to use, and rename them so they start with the original name, plus "FSO". For example, "WMCoolmonFSO.plr", "WMCoolmonFSO.Freespace2.csg", "WMCoolmonFSO.Freespace2.css"
If they're in FSOpen format, rename all the current ones to have the FSO prefix like above. Startup retail FS2 and create a new pilot, and play a mission. Exit Freespace 2, download CSGEdit (http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~freespace/hlp/file_show.php?fil=287), and use that to edit the .csg file of the pilot you just created in retail FS2 so that the next/prev mission values are correct. This may take a bit of guesswork since progress is saved in number of missions, with the first mission being 0. (You should be able to open up the mission simulator in FS2Open and count the number of missions)
At this point, if you want to play FS2Open, you select the player with the "FSO" suffix. If you want to play FS2, you select the player without. (Starting up the proper EXEs, of course)
Note:
If you want to play any FS2Open mods, you'll have to use the multiple mod feature, and if you want to use FRED2Open, you'll have to use its mod feature.
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Note: I did not move FRED2. Thi is merely a folder where I keep the official files Volition released, like Vasudan talk .wav files, etc. Stuff that could potentially be used in projects in the future.
FRED2 is still safe and sound where she is... I think (if FSO didn't do anything to her).
And I also made a brand new pilot for FSO. I didn't want to convert with the progress I made in FS2.
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Doen't work. Moving the .vp files to another area just causes a) FS2 to not give me the parse error, but instead letting Windows terminate it for some other error b) forces FSO to run at 640x480.
Edit: Am I supposed to move all the .vp files? I'm not sure which ones should or shouldn't be moved.
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Just the mediaVPs, those are the .VP files prefixed with "mv_". The rest of the VPs can stay in the main directory.
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Coolmon, your name is truely not overstated. I am now able to run both FS2 and FSOpen without any problems (except for the dialog box and FMV thing). Other than that, all's well. :)
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Ah. Forgot to mention it but 3.6.5 won't play the cutscenes.
Use this (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,29087.0.html)build of taylor's. It's basically 3.6.5 with a few bug fixes (including cutscenes)
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Originally posted by karajorma
Ah. Forgot to mention it but 3.6.5 won't play the cutscenes.
Use this (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,29087.0.html)build of taylor's. It's basically 3.6.5 with a few bug fixes (including cutscenes)
Just downloaded it. Is it suppose to replace the fs2_open_3.6.5 executable?
Edit: Crap. Buggy as hell. Can't even display a Herc on the techroom. (Crashes before I could.)
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:wtf: I've been using that build for months. It's actually more stable than 3.6.5.
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Originally posted by karajorma
:wtf: I've been using that build for months. It's actually more stable than 3.6.5.
Are you sure? (I was running fs2_open_T-20050103-dbg.exe)
Can I have a direct link to the file as opposed to a link to a thread more than 2 months old?
Edit: That explains that. I've been using the debugger all the time.
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You could try this build (http://fs2source.warpcore.org/exes/latest/C20050306b.zip).
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Nevermind, WMCoolmon, I got it working (I was using the debug version all the time... Didn't know which one to put in).
No... help me decide!:
D3D
Pros
-Can use 2AA
-Stops fog from intersecting hull
Cons
-Dialog box slowdown
-WAAAYY Slow loading times
-Need to set nVidia card to "performance," negating default quality.
OpenGL
Pros
-Best performance (best framerate, even on high-poly models like the Herc and Fenris/Leviathan)
-Fastest loading times (comparable to that of FS2 retail's)
Cons
-No AA support (oddly enough)
-Fog will still intersect with hull, but not as much as FS2 retail
-Causes Adobe Gamma Loader to quit
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-No AA support (oddly enough)
If you force-enable it in the nVidia control panel, it should work. That's what I'm doing right now because in D3D, AA causes the screen to flicker.
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Hmm. Apparently, something's wrong with the FMV playback in OpenGL Mode. The bottom half is cut out. Also, this time my opinions are switched: It runs better on D3D with AA set to application, and then letting the Video option in the FSO Launcher do the work. So I guess that settles it, then.
Now if somebody can fix the dialog box slowdown problems everything will be just nice...
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Am I also supposed to copy the .dll files from the zip of taylor's build?
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Originally posted by WMCoolmon
You could try this build (http://fs2source.warpcore.org/exes/latest/C20050306b.zip).
Any documentation to that build (does it have taylor's lighting plus faster OpenGL)?
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If he's committed it to CVS, yes. It has the -rlm command line argument, if that's what you mean It also fixes the freezing bug, which has been a problem in recent builds, and seems to have working OGG support. It does have a couple problems with ship docking, though.
Thread: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,31100.0.html
As stated in that thread, it does apparently have problems with some retail missions.
The DLL files, if they're included with a build, are required for it (Bad things can happen). Recently, the requirement for DLLs was gotten rid of.
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Well, it seems I found a problem with your build:
a)"Stylus support" (something irky about mouse in menus. Didn't go "beserk" like that on previous builds (And oddly enough, this is also the symptom that FS1 has).
b)Movie playback in OGL is screwed. It shows it as a little movie on the upper right corner, instead of stretching it out as it should.
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WHAT PROGRAM IS THIS??? http://fs2source.warpcore.org/wmcscreenies/labscreenie.png
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Originally posted by deep_eyes
WHAT PROGRAM IS THIS??? http://fs2source.warpcore.org/wmcscreenies/labscreenie.png
I hope you're not serious :p
Look at the application title, as it is a screenshot of a window. What you find there may suprise you ;)
Hey WMC, is there a reason that the menus don't show up in OGL screenshots? They are there while the program's running, but when I look at the screencaps they aren't. Not that it's a complaint; it makes for a cleaner screen, but if they should be there then something's slightly wrong.
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Originally posted by StratComm
I hope you're not serious :p
Look at the application title, as it is a screenshot of a window. What you find there may suprise you ;)
Funny... Is this a new version of the techroom?
And WMC, I still have problems with movie playback in OGL. There seems to be a slight glitch causing the lower half of the movie to not show up.
And can the Adobe Gamma loader quitting problem be solved? (To those who have Photoshop, check your Control Panels to see if you have the Adobe Gamma profile settings. It supposedly adjusts your monitor for optimal gamma and color correction.) Everytime I switch to OpenGL, the program shuts off. With D3D, it goes back on again, but not with OGL.
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Press 'F3' in the mainhall in any of the latest builds. There are a couple of bugs in everything but the newest CVS that are annoying, but the tool itself is great. Also wonderful for showing things off in-engine without having to build a mission around them.