Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: MicroPsycho on March 06, 2005, 03:07:37 pm
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(http://uploads.savefile.com/users/uploads/gunatworld.jpg)
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well.. thus far the war on terror has done nothing to reduce terrorism and a lot to increase it
generally it's been a ****up thus far
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What the hell is that? A gimped UT2004 bot?
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Originally posted by Kazan
well.. thus far the war on terror has done nothing to reduce terrorism and a lot to increase it
generally it's been a ****up thus far
Speak for your own country; Israel's invasion of Jenin in 2002 drastically reduced the level of terrorism here.
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Alright! Everyone step right up! It's everybody's favorite gameshow, "It's America's ****ing Fault!" :rolleyes:
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but what of the picture itself?
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Rather stupid, truthfully.
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Originally posted by nuclear1
Alright! Everyone step right up! It's everybody's favorite gameshow, "It's America's ****ing Fault!" :rolleyes:
remove head from posterior
sometimes it really IS our fault - we're not ****ing perfect
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Originally posted by nuclear1
Alright! Everyone step right up! It's everybody's favorite gameshow, "It's America's ****ing Fault!" :rolleyes:
Your objection is illogical. This picture, however funny or unfunny it might be, is not identifying a problem then blaming it on America. It is identifying what America is doing, and ridiculing it.
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*is reminded of Halo by this...* *goes and plays*
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what the hell is that? :wtf:
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Third to last level on Halo... fun one...
Oh, you mean the picture?
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I still haven't beaten that level on Legendary yet...:sigh:
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One problem with the picture:
Wrong type of "head" ;)
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Originally posted by Sandwich
Speak for your own country; Israel's invasion of Jenin in 2002 drastically reduced the level of terrorism here.
Which did it cure, the cause or the effect?
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Originally posted by Eternal One
Which did it cure, the cause or the effect?
The effect; we didn't take over their education system and remove the hatred-filled parts of their cirriculum, you know.
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Originally posted by Sandwich
The effect; we didn't take over their education system and remove the hatred-filled parts of their cirriculum, you know.
And has invading Jenin encouraged them to change this themselves, or broken down the social attitudes that lead to that curriculum being considered acceptable?
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The social attitudes are not our job to try to change; they do not directly threaten Israeli civillians. The Palestinian terrorism isn't our job to change either, but the difference is that those social attitudes don't directly threaten the lives of Israeli citizens - the terrorism does.
If they truly wanted peace, the Palestinian Authority would have dealt with the terrorism that some of their people took part in, but they didn't.
If the Palestinians want to be considered as serious about peace, they can easily exchange the cirriculum of hatred in their educational systems with one that at least teaches tolerance.
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Originally posted by Sandwich
The social attitudes are not our job to try to change; they do not directly threaten Israeli civillians. The Palestinian terrorism isn't our job to change either, but the difference is that those social attitudes don't directly threaten the lives of Israeli citizens - the terrorism does.
If they truly wanted peace, the Palestinian Authority would have dealt with the terrorism that some of their people took part in, but they didn't.
If the Palestinians want to be considered as serious about peace, they can easily exchange the cirriculum of hatred in their educational systems with one that at least teaches tolerance.
But is invading them encouraging a change in that attitude? Don't get me wrong - I understand the desire for security - but is there not a risk of aggravating the cause?
You may not feel responsible for changing social attitudes, but it doesn't mean you should ignore them - especially with the consequences we've seen of those attitudes. Certainly, I don't think sending troops into Palestinian areas will give the PA any more ability or encouragement to reform their own system and tackle terrorism, but rather will hurt it by eroding the support they might have to do so.
My fear would be that it would actually help to 'legitimise' terrorist activity in general, and certainly attacks upon Israeli troops and Israelis in general within the Palestinian territories.
Albeit this is possibly taking this topic a bit OT now (?)... anyways, in summary I think short term security has to be weighed against the long term consequences. IMO invading someone - regardless of the reasons behind it - will rarely encourage them to not want to attack you in return. I do recognise the inherent difficulty of the situation when they also would appear not to wish to stop of their own volition, of course.
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Yeah, I do agree with you in many ways, but to be honest - their social attitudes aren't going to change that easily, depending on whether we proactively act against terrorism or restrain ourselves. How many times in the past 4 years has Israel come to some sort of cease-fire agreement with the Palestinians, only to have it broken again and again by another shooting, another suicide bombing?
At this point, the hatred and violence are so ingrained that it will take drastic measures - measures they choose to take, not ones we'd "force" onto them - to bring about change. :blah:
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picture?
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Originally posted by Sandwich
Yeah, I do agree with you in many ways, but to be honest - their social attitudes aren't going to change that easily, depending on whether we proactively act against terrorism or restrain ourselves. How many times in the past 4 years has Israel come to some sort of cease-fire agreement with the Palestinians, only to have it broken again and again by another shooting, another suicide bombing?
At this point, the hatred and violence are so ingrained that it will take drastic measures - measures they choose to take, not ones we'd "force" onto them - to bring about change. :blah:
Unfortunately, at the moment the 'best' I can see is a maintenance of the status quo. There is international pressure on the Palestinians to reform, but I don't know if they have the local goodwill to do so; I can see hope in some areas, but it's tinged with cynicism.
I don't believe Israeli incursions into Palestinian enclaves help the overall situation, though. I would hope I'm wrong, because I can't see the situation changing from this, and it saddens me.....it seems to me like 2 sides caught in a cycle of mutual destruction and hate, and neither can trust each other in order to end it - because both have to do so at the same time for it to work, and they're waiting on the other.
Like I said, i hope I'm wrong.
Oh, and I can;t see that pic at the top. Bleh.......
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What an absolutely stunning post, Kazan. Thank you once again for sharing the bounty of your limitless brilliance with all of us lowly peons.
Can't see the pic, either.
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Heh, geuss it got taken down...