Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sandwich on March 15, 2005, 12:59:58 pm
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Does anyone else think that the scales of ships in Star Wars is a little OTT (sorry, Venom)?
(pardon the bad textures, models, and rendering - this is for scale comparison, nothing else)
(http://www.brainzipper.com/misc_images/star%20wars%20scale%20-%20imperials.jpg)
Death Star: 120km diameter
Death Star 2: 160km diameter
Cloud City: 16km diameter
SSD: 16km long
ISD: 1.6km long
Bad enough that an ISD is ONE WHOLE MILE of metal, but the SSD, Cloud City, and Death Stars?? That's like, Dyson Sphereian!! :p
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Gotta love the wonders of Sci Fi ;)
Besides, admit it - it'd be boring if the Death Star was 2KM and everything else scaled suitably below it!
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Size DOES matter.
It's Sci-Fi....what did you expect ?
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I'm just trying to get my mind around all that refined metal/steel/whatever - you'd nearly have to gut a planet!
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Hail to the Empire.
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These are the real scales. What's the problem?
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Well, the Galaxy Class Enterprise was around the size of a Victory class. The Death Star possibly would take the resources of an entire planet to build, it is, after all, a small planet itself.
We were actually considering the 'Daedelus Project' involving a vessel with a Hydrogen scoop ramjet of these proportions nearly 20 years ago ;)
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Out of interest, any idea how large the Eclipse class SSD is? If I recall correctly that's the largest starship in the SW universe to date (not counting the Death Stars of course).
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Originally posted by Flipside
Well, the Galaxy Class Enterprise was around the size of a Victory class. The Death Star possibly would take the resources of an entire planet to build, it is, after all, a small planet itself.
We were actually considering the 'Daedelus Project' involving a vessel with a Hydrogen scoop ramjet of these proportions nearly 20 years ago ;)
Daedalus would also be almost entirely fuel. Not refined metal, complex alloys and expensive electronics.
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Knowing NASA, it probably would be, just for the hell of it ;)
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I still feel sorry for the Ewoks when the 2nd Death Star exploded. Think of all that radiation poisoning. Not to mention all that debris.
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They'll just gang up, form a huge furry pyramid and use a really big sling to knock the bits out of the way :)
:nervous:
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They deserved it. Supplanting the Wookies from their rightful role...
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Well, that will change in Episode III. The Wookies will pwn the screen... I have forseen it...
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Perhaps there's some signifigance to Episode III name being derivative from an early title for Episode VI (Revenge of the Jedi).
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Come on, Sandwich, let your imagination stretch a little... I mean, when you've got a whole galaxy at your fingertips... ;7
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Who said the Death Stars were completely solid? Maybe they doubled as gigantic sports arenas.
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Originally posted by TopAce
These are the real scales. What's the problem?
I know those are the real scales. They're also an unimaginable amount of resources to build any one of those but the ISD!
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Hey, Sandwich, the image isn't loading for some reason.
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The significant fact left out by that is that the only one that was built in any quantity at all is the ISD.
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Originally posted by Grey Wolf
Perhaps there's some signifigance to Episode III name being derivative from an early title for Episode VI (Revenge of the Jedi).
Return of the Jedi?:p :D
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An early title was "Revenge of the Jedi", but it was later changed to "Return of the Jedi" as the other was too dark or something along those lines.
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Seems an appropriate place to put this: http://www.merzo.net/
I keep it bookmarked for reference when a geek argument occurs about sizes...:p
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Originally posted by Grey Wolf
An early title was "Revenge of the Jedi", but it was later changed to "Return of the Jedi" as the other was too dark or something along those lines.
Also because Star Trek II was going to be "The Vengeance of Khan" which got changed too.
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Originally posted by Grey Wolf
The significant fact left out by that is that the only one that was built in any quantity at all is the ISD.
Actually, there were 6 different death stars built.
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Originally posted by Grey Wolf
An early title was "Revenge of the Jedi", but it was later changed to "Return of the Jedi" as the other was too dark or something along those lines.
Changed because a Jedi would not seek revenge (according to Lucas - so it was probably for marketing reasons.....)
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Originally posted by Carl
Actually, there were 6 different death stars built.
6? I count 4 - DS1 and 2, The prototype they built at the maw, and you might count Darksabre. Where were the others coming from?
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Originally posted by Black Wolf
6? I count 4 - DS1 and 2, The prototype they built at the maw, and you might count Darksabre. Where were the others coming from?
yeah those are the ones I counted as well.
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Originally posted by Clave
Seems an appropriate place to put this: http://www.merzo.net/
I keep it bookmarked for reference when a geek argument occurs about sizes...:p
Yeah, that site rocks - and looks like they just added a "BIG" section, with two elements in there: Ringworld and a Dyson Sphere. :p
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Originally posted by Black Wolf
6? I count 4 - DS1 and 2, The prototype they built at the maw, and you might count Darksabre. Where were the others coming from?
The Coruscant Death Stars. Incomplete twin Death Stars were under construction in orbit around the Imperial Center at approximately the time of the Battle of Endor.
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Never heard of them... What happened to em?
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I feel sorry for whoever sold the Empire their insurance policy. You'd think they'd learn the first time round, but noooooo.........
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Carl needs to join the SW forum: http://forum.blueharvest.net/ he meets the required level of SW fandom :p
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Originally posted by Kalfireth
Out of interest, any idea how large the Eclipse class SSD is? If I recall correctly that's the largest starship in the SW universe to date (not counting the Death Stars of course).
It's twice the size of the SSD. If you stick to the 8 km-long SSD variant, it's 16, if you think the real SSD is 12800 m, it's 256000 m, etc.
Changed because a Jedi would not seek revenge (according to Lucas - so it was probably for marketing reasons.....)
For marketing reasons. Lucas said this change was because parents might not take little kids, because of the sounding of the title.
The Coruscant Death Stars. Incomplete twin Death Stars were under construction in orbit around the Imperial Center at approximately the time of the Battle of Endor.
I haven't heard of this. Is this canon? I don't think so, it's not in the starwars.com database. From what source do you know this? A novel? I guess so.
I know those are the real scales. They're also an unimaginable amount of resources to build any one of those but the ISD!
In the SW universe, resources are particularly limitless. Just imagine: the Death Fleet consisted of 80 Star Destroyers.
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*sigh*
they are from The Illustrated Star Wars Universe
(http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/books/iswu/twins.gif)
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Those are torpedo spheres. They use a clustered set of six hundred proton torpedo launchers to break through planetary shields.
Notice they're also much closer to Super Star Destroyer or maybe even ISD size then actual Death Stars. A torpedo sphere is, if memory serves, about 600 meters diameter. Comparison between the Lambda shuttle and the lighted areas in that image would seem to suggest that size.
There are about five, though only three were really as resource-inten: The two actual Death Stars. The prototype at the Maw Installation was only about a third the size of the Death Star 1 and mostly empty space. Darksaber was a flying superlaser and almost totally defenseless. Presumably neither required anything like the resources of an actual Death Star.
However, from long ago in the dim past of Star Wars comics comes the Tarkin, a full-scale Death Star equipped with a massive ion cannon rather then a superlaser.
So, three full-scale Death Stars.
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You know, depending on how it's refined etc you could make 3-4 Death Stars from a single planets supplies. Look at Earth, how many cities has it got? All of those cities are made out of mined resources, and that's just the structures, let alone the amount of material we each waste each day, from coke cans to fubared CDR's. I don't think the amount of material required to make one of these is unfeasible. It's a lot, admittedly, but not inhibitively so.
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Given that the Empire has a whole galaxy to plunder for raw materials, I don't think it'd be that hard. Expensive as all hell, due to the logistics, but not technically hard. All you'd need to do is find a moon or planetoid made of iron, and build a big steelworks on it.
Also, hasn't Star Wars got weird technology that means you can make metal transparent (I think I read somewhere that windows were made of it on capital ships, though I could be making it up) and the like? So In theory, you could just get a planet, take it to bits and convert the matter into whatever material you needed to build the ships.
I dunno, I know nothing about Star Wars to be honest, but given the vast scale of the Republic/Empire, I think it'd be quite feasible to build something that big. Whether it'd be practical is another question. ("Yes, we can build you a great big ball covered in guns. Just come back in 300 years!")
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Quite true, even the Star Trek universe replicators, which could construct basic building material with ease out of nothing but energy.
Admittedly, the Death Star was a Folly the size of a small moon, but then, that was exactly what Sideous planned for it to be, it's completely bloated and pointless really, the ISD fleet could lay waste to several planets simultaneously, but Sideous understood the power of Symbols and that's exactly what the Death Star was. When the first one was destroyed, he had no choice but to try to build a second, pride is part of a Sith's makeup after all ;)
Personally, I'd have grabbed a small moon, strapped a big gun and a couple of engines to it if I wanted something like that ;)
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Originally posted by Clave
Seems an appropriate place to put this: http://www.merzo.net/
I keep it bookmarked for reference when a geek argument occurs about sizes...:p
Sweet... they even have the Sathanas on there :D
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That website is incredibly awesome. Looks like the Sathanas can hold its own against a lot of those ships, too. :D Is the guy who runs it accepting submissions? We should try to get one or two other FS ships in there, like something of fighter, cruiser, and destroyer class.
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you can ask in the forum.
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That site needs some Zim ships. Heck, Mars in Invader Zim is technically a ship. :drevil:
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Eat My Moons!!!1! ;)
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So's Venus (or is it Mercury?) :D
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Originally posted by ngtm1r
Those are torpedo spheres. They use a clustered set of six hundred proton torpedo launchers to break through planetary shields.
Notice they're also much closer to Super Star Destroyer or maybe even ISD size then actual Death Stars. A torpedo sphere is, if memory serves, about 600 meters diameter. Comparison between the Lambda shuttle and the lighted areas in that image would seem to suggest that size.
They're not torpedo spheres; the picture's not from the illustrated guide, either. You can only see the upper left portion of the superlaser in that picture, in this one nearly all of it is visible.
I think the story behind them is that they were for ROTJ, which was originally supposed to have Coruscant instead of Endor in one of its many drafts. I think they fit into Star Wars canon as basically mini-Death Stars that were orbitting Coruscant. I'm not sure what happened to them eventually; the Rebel pansies probably disassembled them. :p
Anyway, I'm sure they're not torpedo spheres because they've got superlasers; they look virtually identical to the one on the Death Stars. Likely, they skimp on engines and anti-ship defenses in favor of smaller size, repulsorlifts, and stronger shield generators. Probably they were meant to vaporize attacking capital ships. They could be pretty effective, especially if they stayed under Coruscant's layered shield system.