Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rictor on March 22, 2005, 12:20:31 am
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http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/1564
How, I ask you, am I supposed to take anything seriously anymore? Its getting very difficult, I tell you what.
If nothing else, I applaud the immense balls it takes to make not the least attempt whatsoever to conceal your agenda. Its was probably done as a drunken bet.
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:lol: Hilarious. Don't know what else to say..
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[q]in the past, Hogan was head lobbyist for Safari Club International, an extreme gaming group whose members hunt rare animals across the globe.[/q]
Excuse me while I retrieve my jaw from the floor... the stupidity/insanity is mind-boggling.
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It´s like handing the leadership of the country´s police forces to a mobster!! Talk about dumb...
What´s next? Giving control of the Homeland Security and NSA to Osama bin Laden´s lieutenant?
:rolleyes:
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Or giving control of the World Bank to Paul Wolfo....oh, wait.
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I don't know. On one hand, it sounds kind of absurd on the surface, but on the other, Teddy Roosevelt pretty much established environmentalism as a political force and he was a pretty avid hunter, iirc. I'd imagine most serious hunters would have at least somewhat of an understanding of ecosystems just out of neccesity, not to mention they've got a pretty good reason to want to keep things alive. Yes, I recognize that "So I can kill them later" probably isn't the most noble reason for preserving rare animals, but nobility in politicians seldom lasts long anyway.
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Originally posted by phatosealpha
I don't know. On one hand, it sounds kind of absurd on the surface, but on the other, Teddy Roosevelt pretty much established environmentalism as a political force and he was a pretty avid hunter, iirc. I'd imagine most serious hunters would have at least somewhat of an understanding of ecosystems just out of neccesity, not to mention they've got a pretty good reason to want to keep things alive. Yes, I recognize that "So I can kill them later" probably isn't the most noble reason for preserving rare animals, but nobility in politicians seldom lasts long anyway.
I'm not sure how hunting down members of a critically endangered species could ever count as helping conserve it, which is what the likes of SCI say they are doing. (apparently, they employ a few dirty tricks, too; bribery of officials in Africa in particular, also funding population research which will be naturally biased towards letting them hunt as a result).
Roosevelt was president over 80 years ago, though; the issue of studying animal populations, and the problem of endangered species in general, has vastly changed since then. The problem is that restocking animal populations to 'safe' levels might (probably will) take many decades, and I'm not sure that the bulk of hunters would sit on their guns for long enough to allow that - including this guy.
Incidentally, Bush snr. (and I think GW also) is a member of SCI; he was one of several who appealed to the Botswanan government to allow trophy hunting for lions (it had been previously banned as hunters will killing a disproportionate number of adult males for their manes).
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Originally posted by Swamp_Thing
It´s like handing the leadership of the country´s police forces to a mobster!! Talk about dumb...
What´s next? Giving control of the Homeland Security and NSA to Osama bin Laden´s lieutenant?
:rolleyes:
Or like putting an ex- hacker in charge of the security of a large corporation!!!!!!1111111123245
:rolleyes:
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Or like putting Sandwich in charge of the Palestinian Authority!!!111oneoneone
Har Har
:rolleyes:
(Sorry, gotta agree with the folks that this guy's motives are pretty much against conservation)
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Most hunters I know are very vocal about preserving the species they hunt... After all, they don't want to run out of game. A single crop farm kills more animals than hundreds of hunters, for example. Same goes for a single polluted water stream.
I used to hunt with my father and his friends, and all of them were very conscious about this issue.
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I suppose it depends on the meaning you give to the phrase 'conservation'. Hunters have a vested interest in keeping a species alive. However, trophy hunters can get a lot lot more money depending on how rare an animal is, and an absolute fortune for a species that is now extinct.
Guess it depends on how it's approached.
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Originally posted by Flipside
I suppose it depends on the meaning you give to the phrase 'conservation'. Hunters have a vested interest in keeping a species alive. However, trophy hunters can get a lot lot more money depending on how rare an animal is, and an absolute fortune for a species that is now extinct.
Guess it depends on how it's approached.
Good point. I never hunted for trophies, we ate everything we hunted.
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After first reading this I was :eek2: but when I think about it I'll have to agree that maybe, being a hunter and all, that he has atleast some understanding of wildlife/ecosystems.
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While I will concede that hunters may in theory hold the preservation of nature as noble goal, despite the rather large logical leap required, they are surely not the best qualified. And even then, that says nothing about this specific individual, who, if I was a betting man, seems likely to be a ol' boy from dahn South.
What amazes me is simply the brash, unapologetic sense of complete disregard that such a decision shows. It almost certainly started with "How dumb do I think people are?...". It almost as audacious as putting an oil lobbyist as head of the Environmental Protection Agency...oh wait, they already did that.
Usually, the few hundred kilometers distance between myself and this sorry parade puts my mind at ease, but lately....
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I'm contemplating starting an HLP moon base. Anyone else in?
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I'll nuke it when you're done building it...
I always wanted a reason to blow up the moon...
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Originally posted by Grey Wolf
I'm contemplating starting an HLP moon base. Anyone else in?
Count me in. This planet is whacked.
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Wahey! Another chance to quote a Geneva song...
Fly me to the moon, we've left the earth, there's nothing left
dollars in the heavens, guess we'll make our fortunes, yet
as we leave this world to the poor
the rich are off to the moon
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Huh. I once had a school assignment where we had to design a moon base.
I think everyone except my group had some sort of variant of a giant trash-gun of doom.
I've always wondered how effective an hyperaccelerated chunk of human feces would be at defending the moon.
Count me in.
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I figure even with our lack of technical expertise in operating enviromental and power systems, it should be safer up there than it will be down here in a few years.
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well for the record. hunters and legal trapers do a great deal to control wild life. Wildlife preservation has two sides to it. Management and conservation.
Would you rather Bush give the job to someone who knows jack **** about wild life?
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Originally posted by redmenace
well for the record. hunters and legal trapers do a great deal to control wild life. Wildlife preservation has two sides to it. Management and conservation.
Would you rather Bush give the job to someone who knows jack **** about wild life?
I'd rather he gave it to someone with a simple conservationist agenda, rather than a hunting one (and one skewed towards encouraging hunting internationally at that). Certainly a person who could be seen as neutral in any conservational vs hunting rights issues that exist or may emerge.
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Seems to me conservation isnt high on these guys lists of prioritys
The Arizona-based SCI has made a name for itself as one of the most extreme and elite trophy hunting organizations, representing some 40,000 wealthy trophy collectors, fostering and promoting competitive trophy hunting of exotic animals on five continents. SCI members shoot prescribed lists of animals to win so-called Grand Slam and Inner Circle titles. There's the Africa Big Five (leopard, elephant, lion, rhino, and buffalo), the North American Twenty Nine (all species of bear, bison, sheep, moose, caribou, and deer), Big Cats of the World, Antlered Game of the Americas, and many other contests.
To complete all 29 award categories, a hunter must kill a minimum of 322 separate species and sub-species—enough to populate a large zoo. This is an extremely expensive and lengthy task, and many SCI members take the quick and easy route to see their names in the record books. They shoot captive animals in canned hunts, both in the United States and overseas, and some engage in other unethical conduct like shooting animals over bait, from vehicles, with spotlights, or on the periphery of national parks.
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I strongly disagree, hunting is a positive externality for society and should be encouraged but monitorred to prevent over hunting of species and in certain areas.
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We're not talking about the merits of hunting, we're talking about the fox in the henhouse.
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Trophy Hunters dont stalk Badgers to put their heads on the wall. What you need to think about is 2 things. 1 : Why don't they put Badgers heads on the wall and 2 : What's the best way to change this situation to their benefit?
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I am saying he has a different POV than most people that have occupied that spot. I think, we should wait and see with this new appointee. Different experiences foster different POVs that bring new ideas. I am not defending bush's appointee, I am promoting a wait and see attitude.
If he starts advocating hunting bald eagle, let me know. Additionally, I can understand the concern, since he was an advocate for an extreme hunting organization.
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I don't find this nearly as humerous as the recently appointed U.N. rep. who hates the U.N.
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why does he hate the UN?
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'Cause they made him rep.
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Whoa, I am the amazing psychic man! Pay me money!
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how so?
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He hates the U.N. because he's a nationalist nut-job. I'm trying to find an article on it. I'm actually surprised Rictor hasn't mentioned it.
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Personally I try not to discount people's opinions simply based on what they have said in the past. That may factor in, however. But, I would go as far as to say he has absolutly no point in his antipathy of the UN.
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John Bolton.
The nominee for the ambassador to the UN, who has in the past come out strongly in favour of the United Nations, with such choice quotes as:
"There is no such thing as the United Nations"
or
‘’If the U.N. secretary building in New York lost 10 stories, it wouldn’t make a bit of difference.'’
or
...many Republicans in Congress - and perhaps a majority - not only do not care about losing the General Assembly vote but actually see it as a ‘make my day’ outcome. Indeed, once the vote is lost, and the adverse consequences predicted by the U.N.’s supporters begin to occur, this will simply provide further evidence to many why nothing more should be paid to the U.N. system.”
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Personally I try not to discount people's opinions simply based on what they have said in the past.
That's sound advice, actually. Just really hard to do.
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and lastly, my favourite Bolton quote:
"I believe that the United Nations can be a useful instrument in the conduct of American foreign policy. ... No one, however, should be under any illusions that American support for the United Nations as one of several options for implementing American foreign policy translates into unlimited support for the world organization. That is not true now, and it will not be true for a long time to come, if ever."
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I've always depised trophy hunting in a sense of hunting from a list. I like to hunting. My father has taken me since I was 4 years old. It used to be about the only thing I use to do. I want to wait and see what this guy does first. I normally take a prejudice look at fellows that are memebers of safari clubs, and I highly doubt he is a good ol' boy from the south by far. Good Ol Boys from da South don't normally join Safari clubs.
Organizations like Ducks Unlimited is an organization made up of duck hunters and they are the number one restorer of America's wetlands.
http://www.ducks.org/conservation/FactSheets/FactSheetWRP.pdf
http://www.ducks.org/conservation/FactSheets/ConservationFactSheet.pdf
http://www.ducks.org/conservation/FactSheets/DU_NAWCA_CONSERVATION_FACT_SHEET.pdf
http://www.ducks.org/conservation/FactSheets/Fact_Sheet_Nesting%20Success.pdf
Not only that, but the hunting and fishing liscenses, stamps, and tags that hunters and fishermen buy are what fund the wildlife programs.
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Ill point something out for you guys.
The Bush administration has named a trophy-hunting advocate to serve as acting director of the department charged with protecting the nation’s wildlife. US Department of the Interior Secretary Gale Norton announced Wednesday that Matthew J. Hogan, who formerly served as deputy director of the agency, will temporarily head the US Fish and Wildlife Service in the wake of the current director’s resignation.
So first of all, Bush didn't make the decision to get this guy in there.
The United States Humane Society, the nation’s largest animal protection organization, blasted the announcement, pointing out that in the past, Hogan was head lobbyist for Safari Club International, an extreme gaming group whose members hunt rare animals across the globe. Hogan will direct the agency until President Bush nominates and Congress approves a permanent replacement.
Secondly, this is temporary while another candidate is chosen.
Therefore, dont get your panties in a bunch.
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Good, the UN is useless as organization for keeping peace. Its developed into a good world charity though.