Hard Light Productions Forums

Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Shrike on May 30, 2001, 05:31:00 am

Title: New mission designer
Post by: Shrike on May 30, 2001, 05:31:00 am
Alright, to go with my Next-Gen Space Sim thread, let's discuss a next gen mission designer... a superFRED.

So reference your ideas from that thread, and say what you think would be cool in an advanced mission designer.
Title: New mission designer
Post by: wEvil on May 30, 2001, 05:37:00 am
better non-linear event driven tags, which would be tied in with an AI rework.

something like a graphical UI (like mayas' hypergraph) for the event logic gates.

A more intuitive grouping system..simply the interface needs to be reworked to reflect how an FS2 fleet (or whatever fleet you're designing for) actually works.

Support for volumetric scenery (graphical engine update needed)

Pre-set fleet maneouvers would be a big plus

Actually i don't have a clue because i don't design missions :P


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 http://www.wevil.co.uk ("http://www.wevil.co.uk")  - how NOT to do a website
Title: New mission designer
Post by: Fineus on May 30, 2001, 05:41:00 am
Mine would definitely be designed with the modder in mind, also with the ability to render using the games engine whatever view your looking at at the time to allow for a better idea of fram rates and so on in the game.

You'd be able to preview weapons fire, ships speeds and so on without starting anything but the one program.

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Co-Creator:  Hard Light Productions ("http://www.3dap.com/hlp/")
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Title: New mission designer
Post by: Jabu on May 30, 2001, 08:50:00 am
Something that can read my mind.
Title: New mission designer
Post by: NeoHunter on May 30, 2001, 10:34:00 am
Well, here are my ideas though.

1.) A build-in calculator or component of the program that let users or designers find out where ships will end up at after exiting subspace.

2.) Allow designers to insert more than one asteroid field.

3.) Allow designers to create infinite loops for some reason. Anybody used Starcraft Campaign Editor? They have something called "Switches" that can be toggled on or off or random, depending on what you want.

4.) The ability to specify which ships should have how much primary bank energy etc. Like the Starcraft Campaign Editor. That way, mission designers don't need to add a whole new entry into the ships.tbl file just so that that ship can be used only once for a whole campaign.

5.) A more advanced Error Checker that can inform the designer when the designer has assign a weapon to the fighter that cannot carry it.

6.) Two different resolution versions of the mission creator. I hate to have to change to 1024x768 whenever I want to use FRED2. I cannot see the description of SEXPs when I do at 800x600 resolution.

7.) A build-in component that creates a random Background for the designer. Sorry Kazan.  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)

8.) The ability to hear ingame music in the mission creator. At least I don;t have to keep using trial-and-error method to get the best music for the mission. Mission briefing music as well.

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...and one day, Man will journey farther and faster into Space. - My thoughts

GTD Excellence  ("http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/excellence") Webmaster
NeoHunter<                       [b][email protected][/b]                                     >
Not to mention a FREDder! :)
Title: New mission designer
Post by: Styxx on May 30, 2001, 11:56:00 am
You think too small. I don't think about a mission editor, but an universe editor. Think about specifying everything about every system on your universe, modelling behaviour for each of the ships, setting everything and putting everything on a starting point and letting it flow alone afterwards.

Imagine something where you don't have to worry about scripting events, simply because the behaviour models will make the scenario evolve on it's own. That's what I wanted.
Title: New mission designer
Post by: Martinus on May 30, 2001, 01:57:00 pm
That would be mega complicated, it would be better to randomly generate that kind of data as it's needed in the game rather than having a mission designer slog through masses of calculations for stuff you're never likely to see. It's an infinite universe after all  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)

Title: New mission designer
Post by: wEvil on May 30, 2001, 02:43:00 pm
a decent modifier set with a logic-flow graph would allow almost infinte options along what styxx suggested.

Obviously the designer would have to come up with the base data set (ship numbers, names specs etc.)...

but if designing a campaign were going to be that easy it wouldn't be special anymore, would it?



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 http://www.wevil.co.uk ("http://www.wevil.co.uk")  - how NOT to do a website
Title: New mission designer
Post by: phreak on May 30, 2001, 03:26:00 pm
A feature to give the stats of a weapons an it prints a table out for you.

a drag and drop system for backgrounds.

the ability to make the player entry delayed (taken out in FS).  Then you won't have to randomize the ship starting values.


ability to put more ships on the screen to make a real "Battle of Endor" mission.
Title: New mission designer
Post by: Shrike on May 30, 2001, 05:11:00 pm
 
Quote
Originally posted by Styxx:
You think too small. I don't think about a mission editor, but an universe editor. Think about specifying everything about every system on your universe, modelling behaviour for each of the ships, setting everything and putting everything on a starting point and letting it flow alone afterwards.

Imagine something where you don't have to worry about scripting events, simply because the behaviour models will make the scenario evolve on it's own. That's what I wanted.

This was one of the things I wanted to talk to you about.  Think 'systems.tbl' that'll have all the orbits, node locations, backgrounds all built in...
Title: New mission designer
Post by: NeoHunter on June 03, 2001, 02:09:00 am
A "systems.tbl" file? Sounds interesting but how many of us actually take notice of where the jump node sout of a system are? How many of us really take note of how the nebulas look like in that mission and in another mission but in the same system?

I think that this feature is a bit redundant.

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...and one day, Man will journey farther and faster into Space. - My thoughts

GTD Excellence  ("http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/excellence") Webmaster
NeoHunter<                       [b][email protected][/b]                                     >
Not to mention a FREDder! :)
Title: New mission designer
Post by: Shrike on June 03, 2001, 02:46:00 am
I never said this was for FS2.   (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/devil.gif)
Title: New mission designer
Post by: Fineus on June 03, 2001, 02:49:00 am
Whilst it wouldn't work as well for FS2 (where inter-system travel can't happen in mission). It would be very useful if you wanted some level of continuity in a sequel, where you simply program the data into that table. this *could* cut down on mission file size as you simply include something saying "refer to this part of the systems.tbl" and leave all that background data out of the file. It'd be very handy.

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  - ICQ: 57179504
Co-Creator:  Hard Light Productions ("http://www.3dap.com/hlp/")
Webmaster: Sounds of Thunder ("http://www.3dap.com/hlp/sot/")
Title: New mission designer
Post by: Shrike on June 03, 2001, 03:16:00 am
exactly.
Title: New mission designer
Post by: Setekh on June 03, 2001, 03:25:00 am
Mmmm...  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/devil.gif)
Title: New mission designer
Post by: NeoHunter on June 04, 2001, 07:37:00 am
Okay.now if somebody could make it a reality..... (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)

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...and one day, Man will journey farther and faster into Space. - My thoughts

GTD Excellence  ("http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/excellence") Webmaster
NeoHunter<                       [b][email protected][/b]                                     >
Not to mention a FREDder! :)
Title: New mission designer
Post by: Styxx on June 04, 2001, 08:15:00 am
 
Quote
Originally posted by NeoHunter:
Okay.now if somebody could make it a reality.....  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)


...  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
Title: New mission designer
Post by: Shrike on June 05, 2001, 07:54:00 pm
Good things come to those who wait.  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/lol.gif)
Title: New mission designer
Post by: Sandwich on June 08, 2001, 03:55:00 am
 
Quote
Originally posted by NeoHunter:
A "systems.tbl" file? Sounds interesting but how many of us actually take notice of where the jump node sout of a system are? How many of us really take note of how the nebulas look like in that mission and in another mission but in the same system?

I think that this feature is a bit redundant.


I've taken notice and have already done someting about it. My page ("http://michael.randelman.com/") has the System Backgrounds - a .ZIP with all the original missions inside, but they are blank except for the backgrounds, asteroid fields and jump nodes.   (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)


EDIT: It's in the FreeSpace 2 -> Notes section....
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"He who laughs last thinks slowest."
"Just becase you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you."
"To err is human; to really screw up you need a computer."
Creator of the Sandvich Bar ("http://michael.randelman.com")

[This message has been edited by sandwich (edited 06-08-2001).]
Title: New mission designer
Post by: wEvil on June 08, 2001, 04:36:00 am
that sounds like it was a bit of a task, sandwich



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 http://www.wevil.co.uk ("http://www.wevil.co.uk")  - how NOT to do a website
Title: New mission designer
Post by: IceFire on June 08, 2001, 07:19:00 am
This feature has sort of already been covered, but just a straight background importer would make things really nice (so I don't have to open notepad).

That way you can save separate presets and just select them from a list of installed presets.
Title: New mission designer
Post by: QXMX on June 08, 2001, 11:06:00 am
Ability to capture screens to file so that you can make easy cbanims  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)

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Co-Creator, GroundZero ("http://www.subspacezero.com")
Title: New mission designer
Post by: Sandwich on June 08, 2001, 04:05:00 pm
 
Quote
Originally posted by wEvil:
that sounds like it was a bit of a task, sandwich
Hehehe... It was, but it was fun going through all the files in text and seeing all the things that had been planned for various mission and that never came about... For example, did you know that the "original" (as of the initial mission creation) plan was for a SJ Apocalypse, not SJ Sathanas?   (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)

Anyway, I have a whole list of goodies like that at my page (see siggy)...  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)

As for my wish - we really need to be able to direct capital ship movements better, including what they face and how many degrees to barrel-roll, etc.


------------------
"He who laughs last thinks slowest."
"Just becase you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you."
"To err is human; to really screw up you need a computer."
Creator of the Sandvich Bar ("http://michael.randelman.com")

[This message has been edited by sandwich (edited 06-08-2001).]
Title: New mission designer
Post by: Nico on June 08, 2001, 04:44:00 pm
The only thing I really want to see added is the possibility to jump in subspace, end up in another place, and jump again, and so on, and that in a single mission. Oh, and the possiblity to end a mission another way than jumping out... But I suppose all that ends up commonly in the wish list for the unlikely to be done FS3...
Title: New mission designer
Post by: Styxx on June 08, 2001, 04:55:00 pm
Really nice your 'Notes' section on the site...
Title: New mission designer
Post by: wEvil on June 08, 2001, 05:00:00 pm
i suppose there would be user interface issues with that kind of thing.

That or the best AI ever seen in a computer game :0/

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 http://www.wevil.co.uk ("http://www.wevil.co.uk")  - how NOT to do a website
Title: New mission designer
Post by: Fattony on June 08, 2001, 05:18:00 pm
Five things which would most improve gameplay (not ease of creation) are:

1) Wingmen who sometimes disobey an order if they think they're gonna die.
2) In mission jumping
3) Better AI (or selctable) tactics.
4) Dynamic missions. You set a basic campaign out and each time it is run, FS puts in a random number of enemy ships and targets.
5) More flowing gameplay. If you lose a mission it shouldn't just make you replay, it should branch into a different sequence of missions and events.

Number 5 would make campaign creation a nightmare but each campaign would be almost infinitely replayable. Number 4 is the best idea as it is fairly practical and would make the game way better.


Title: New mission designer
Post by: Setekh on June 08, 2001, 06:21:00 pm
 
Quote
Originally posted by sandwich:
 I've taken notice and have already done someting about it. My page ("http://michael.randelman.com/") has the System Backgrounds - a .ZIP with all the original missions inside, but they are blank except for the backgrounds, asteroid fields and jump nodes.    (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)

Wow.. nice job... I'll say it again, you have a very nice site there.  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
Title: New mission designer
Post by: Nico on June 08, 2001, 06:24:00 pm
like in flanker or falcon4.0, yep, that would be great. Imagine the game gives you the choice between multiple objectives, you have to pick one or two, set up your flight plan (subspace nodes) according to intelligence reports (thanx Setekh  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif) ) to avoid enemies. Imagine that at the same time the other squads onboard any GTVA and shivan ships do the same, link all that with a full scale universe (take all the missions, when you jump out the next field is loaded during you subspace flight), and you'll meet shivan ships that are not here like they're waiting for alpha one, but are really on their way to achieve objectives, and you would have a great campaign, always different and interesting. Of course, add some triggered events, and some obligatory missions to make the story evolve, and hop!

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venom2506
Member of the Robotech mod for FS2 ("http://robotechlan.com/freespace2/")

and of Hidden Terror, the Shivan campaign ("http://www.hiddenterror.f2s.com/index2.html")

and My own page ("http://www.geocities.com/venom250681/Venom2506.html")
Title: New mission designer
Post by: Setekh on June 08, 2001, 06:32:00 pm
 
Quote
Originally posted by venom2506:
intelligence reports (thanx Setekh   (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif) )

 (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/tongue.gif)

(I like the idea though. But it would require lots more effort on the part of the mission designers, yes? Time well spent, I think...  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif))
Title: New mission designer
Post by: Shrike on June 18, 2001, 05:52:00 pm
*boots this thread to the top as well*