Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Unknown Target on March 28, 2005, 12:19:29 pm

Title: Next up!
Post by: Unknown Target on March 28, 2005, 12:19:29 pm
I'm gearing for this to be the standard US Fighter. What do you think so FAR? It's missing a lot, but I want to make sure the fuselage is on the right track.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v56/UnknownTarget/56c26f04.jpg)
Title: Next up!
Post by: aldo_14 on March 28, 2005, 12:23:49 pm
Bit too early for me to tell, to be honest....  Nose looks a bit...fat, though.
Title: Next up!
Post by: Unknown Target on March 28, 2005, 01:05:44 pm
Update.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v56/UnknownTarget/USFSTANDARD1.jpg)
Title: Next up!
Post by: Thrilla on March 28, 2005, 01:47:10 pm
Big nose :no:
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Post by: NGTM-1R on March 28, 2005, 02:39:11 pm
Excellent field of view from the cockpit, good for a dogfighter or for deck landing...

I'm going to assume the wings don't abruptly cut off like that in the final version. I'd suggest, well, straightening the fuselage a bit. Not too much though, because the bent shape gives it a unique character.
Title: Next up!
Post by: Grug on March 28, 2005, 02:49:41 pm
Maybe an extruded hemisphere on the side of the fuselage for the gun?

Looking good. :)
Title: Next up!
Post by: Unknown Target on March 29, 2005, 04:13:50 pm
You were right, ngtm1r, I was going to blend the body with the wings. Here's an update :)
A note: That side intake is only on the right side.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v56/UnknownTarget/USFSTANDARD2.jpg)
Title: Next up!
Post by: Gregster2k on March 29, 2005, 04:25:29 pm
Is this a spacecraft, jet fighter, or spacecraft/jet fighter hybrid? If its atmospheric, I think it should have little tiny landing gear bays visible somewhere, or at least rectangular bumps on the bottom where they would be.

After all, if your spacecraft's hovering abilities conk out a mile above a planet surface when trying to land, you'll be NEEDING landing gear...

As for the fuselage itself, i love the idea...maybe two small fins on the back next to the engines, two 45-degree slanted fins on either side of them? We already have jets that look like that...
Title: Next up!
Post by: Unknown Target on March 29, 2005, 04:28:21 pm
I was already considering fins in the concept sketch, but they're hard to implement, I'll look at them though. And I have an experimental copy of the model with gear, I'm going to try and implement it at a later stage (I'm doing the cockpit now).
Title: Next up!
Post by: Unknown Target on March 30, 2005, 10:14:06 am
Cockpit update :)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v56/UnknownTarget/914e920e.jpg)
Title: Next up!
Post by: Ghost on March 30, 2005, 10:46:06 am
Ooh, pretty. For the cockpit: I suggest you use Nico's cockpit model, but obviously not the map. What era fighter would this be, near future or present day?
Title: Next up!
Post by: Unknown Target on March 30, 2005, 01:12:46 pm
Semi near future (about 100 years). It's in a different universe, though, so I can't use Nico's cockpit.
Title: Next up!
Post by: Ghost on March 30, 2005, 01:23:33 pm
Ah, so I see... still, I think using the cockpit model itself would be okay, and then apply your own map later.
Title: Next up!
Post by: Unknown Target on March 30, 2005, 01:55:34 pm
Thought some people might appreciate this :) The front wheel and shock absorbers are gonna come out though, unless FS2 gets some magical easy to use animation ability all of a sudden.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v56/UnknownTarget/c16c9a58.jpg)


And with the gear up:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v56/UnknownTarget/gearup.jpg)

And I'm not done yet! :D




---------------------------
Model Statistics (with gear up)
---------------------------
Vertices:   1207
Triangles:   2252
Groups:   16
Materials:   1
Joints:   0
Smoothing Groups:   1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
Mins:   -53.74 -19.39 -64.01
Maxs:   53.74 23.17 66.39
Center:   0.00 1.89 1.19
Title: Next up!
Post by: BlackDove on March 30, 2005, 02:04:52 pm
In the Robotech mod, if you press a button, your fighter transforms into a mech.

Maybe just use that to bonk the wheels back after take-off.
Title: Next up!
Post by: Unknown Target on March 30, 2005, 02:07:46 pm
Just so you know, I posted an update with the gear up (after you just posted).

And anyway, the problem with the robotech mod is that uses basically a hack. The mech portions are all debris, and you can't reverse it, you have it stuck like that.
Title: Next up!
Post by: StratComm on March 30, 2005, 02:21:21 pm
No, but there's code now to support rotations properly.  I do have issues with using the landing gear though if this is ever supposed to go into Freespace, as it unnecessarily raises polys and subobjects to an already complex design.  You'll never see them down, and while it looks ok for render purposes the gear is completely useless from a gameplay perspective.
Title: Next up!
Post by: Flaser on March 30, 2005, 03:12:16 pm
If that cockpit is to scale than it's a really small fighter by FS standards.
Title: Next up!
Post by: Unknown Target on March 30, 2005, 03:29:47 pm
The gear looks cool, that's simply why it's there. That and I'm preparing just in case such a thing might be implemented as a feature in the future. Since this fighter is going to be the "poster child" for most of the publicity (it being the standard fighter) I want it to be as detailed as possible. Also, when the gear is up, the only gear modelled is the rear. The forward landing gear isn't there.  And for the millionth time: it's not in the Freespace universe.
Title: Next up!
Post by: Unknown Target on March 30, 2005, 07:34:12 pm
The cockpit still isn't done, but that's always last. Texture work so far.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v56/UnknownTarget/b141db4b.jpg)
Title: Next up!
Post by: Ghost on March 30, 2005, 11:28:18 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Flaser
If that cockpit is to scale than it's a really small fighter by FS standards.



So are today's fighters.
Title: Next up!
Post by: StratComm on March 31, 2005, 12:16:19 am
Quote
Originally posted by Ghost
So are today's fighters.


You know, that's not true.  They are a little larger, but not orders of magnitude.

F-15 Eagle:
Wing span: 13 meters
Length: 19.44 meters
Height: 5.6 meters

GTF Perseus:
Wing span: 13.32 meters
Length: 16.12 meters
Height: 9.92 meters

And that's not atypical.
Title: Next up!
Post by: Ghost on March 31, 2005, 12:39:29 am
Look at the Herc... it's gi-normous for a fighter. Besides, Perseus actually looks flightworthy.

Say, where'd you get those specs on the Perseus?
Title: Next up!
Post by: StratComm on March 31, 2005, 12:44:42 am
Herc I:
Wing span: 13.88 meters
Length: 20.32 meters
Height: 13.56 meters

bigger, yes.  "ginormous", no.  I'm not going to touch the bombers since they are inherently bigger, but no terran fighter in the game is much over 20 meters in length.  The f-15 is almost 20 meters in length.  FS fighters aren't huge.

BTW, these stats are from modelview.  It's not counting the thrusters, which I think is more accurate.
Title: Next up!
Post by: Ghost on March 31, 2005, 01:08:25 am
Dammit. Um... fighters..fighters...Okay, I concede the point.


Orions are bigger than aircraft carriers, right?
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Post by: karajorma on March 31, 2005, 03:38:20 am
That much is true. Even corvettes are bigger than aircraft carriers.
Title: Next up!
Post by: Black Wolf on March 31, 2005, 04:15:52 am
Mmm... destroyer scale is a little excessive in FS2... Nimitz class are only 317m long and 41m wide, but carry carry 85 aircraft (to an Orion's 100 or so) and 5700 crew/air wing (to an orion's 10000). Even allowing for weapons, food and water storage, engines and life support, the Orion being something like seven times longer and vastly taller just doesn't seem to stack up. It could probably have been fit into 1 km or so. But that wouldn;t have made for as cool a FS1 box I guess :D
Title: Next up!
Post by: aldo_14 on March 31, 2005, 04:59:11 am
Death dealing space ships can never be excessive!

:D
Title: Next up!
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 31, 2005, 05:50:00 am
I dunno. They might need all that space: for all we know the Orion could have complicated environmental systems that make it self-sufficent. Surely that ship never lands...
Title: Next up!
Post by: BlackDove on March 31, 2005, 08:33:05 am
Quote
Originally posted by Unknown Target
The cockpit still isn't done, but that's always last. Texture work so far.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v56/UnknownTarget/b141db4b.jpg)
:yes:
Title: Next up!
Post by: Unknown Target on March 31, 2005, 05:42:03 pm
Thanks BlackDove...can I get opinions from anyone else? And how do I fix that annoying line that always appears between the two halves of the craft?
Title: Next up!
Post by: Taristin on March 31, 2005, 05:46:18 pm
If you mean the line in this image
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v56/UnknownTarget/gearup.jpg

I think that's the smoothing angle.
Title: Next up!
Post by: Unknown Target on March 31, 2005, 05:48:54 pm
That is a smoothing angle, it was on purpose. I do my textures like this: I take a smooth shaded image of the part I'm going to texture. I draw on it, then assign half of the ship to that image section, and do likewise with the other side. Can anyone A) Tell me a better technique, or B) tell me how to get rid of the line that appears between the two sides?
Title: Next up!
Post by: Taristin on March 31, 2005, 05:51:35 pm
You can't have two materials share the same smoothgroup?
Title: Next up!
Post by: Unknown Target on March 31, 2005, 05:55:27 pm
This is what I'm talking about. I've tried moving the texture around like there's no tommorrow, but it still doesn't go away.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v56/UnknownTarget/error.jpg)

EDIT: And yes it is a bit misaligned, but even when I align the two sides exactly, it never comes out right.
Title: Next up!
Post by: Taristin on March 31, 2005, 05:56:50 pm
That... definately looks like a UV mapping error. I don't know what program you're doing this in. if it was Max, I'd suggest using the symmetry modifier, and copying the good side over the bad side.
Title: Next up!
Post by: Unknown Target on March 31, 2005, 05:58:03 pm
I'm doing everything in Milkshape 3D.
Title: Next up!
Post by: Taristin on March 31, 2005, 05:59:33 pm
Then I don't know how to help you, sorry.
Title: Next up!
Post by: StratComm on March 31, 2005, 06:16:44 pm
You're making two mistakes from what I have gathered.  First, look for some kind of symmetry modifier on the model itself, even if it has to be after you've textured.  You may be able to do this when you are ready to convert and just work with one side for now.  Secondly, when you're drawing your maps, make them bigger than the outline you start with.
Title: Next up!
Post by: Unknown Target on March 31, 2005, 08:53:23 pm
So do I have to completely re-do my maps to solve the problem?
Title: Next up!
Post by: Unknown Target on April 01, 2005, 04:02:01 pm
Had to redo the texture, but I've got the symettry down now :) What do you think?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v56/UnknownTarget/redonetexture.jpg)
Title: Next up!
Post by: BlackDove on April 01, 2005, 05:14:50 pm
Wings obviously need some kind of texturing.

I'd also suggest either shortening them a bit or ending them with sharpness (if you get what I mean).
Title: Next up!
Post by: Unknown Target on April 01, 2005, 07:50:17 pm
The wings. Is the difference between the wings and the body too much?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v56/UnknownTarget/Wingstexture.jpg)
Title: Next up!
Post by: Carl on April 01, 2005, 08:08:43 pm
maybe make them shorter.
Title: Next up!
Post by: Ghost on April 01, 2005, 08:16:27 pm
They're too short for flight as it is! I was thinking make them longer and give the poor thing an actual fuselage, with a tail and whatnot. Jeez... try and fly that thing and you'd crash.
Title: Next up!
Post by: Charismatic on April 01, 2005, 08:23:44 pm
Great work sorfar man!
Title: Next up!
Post by: n00by on April 02, 2005, 06:35:31 am
What do you think of making that US mark a bit smaller, like in your previous attempts? Looks quite big and...stretched to me.

Additionally, softening the transition between wings/body would be necessary IMHO...and maybe making the wings longer and more curved at the end?

But hey, you're doing a great job here - I counldn't even model a ball...
Title: Next up!
Post by: Unknown Target on April 02, 2005, 05:03:10 pm
I would smooth the transition, except I don't know how. And this is mostly in space - the short wings actually might be able to let it fly in-atmosphere, but they're mostly there to carry a large payload and help manevuerability (by keeping the maneuvering jets far away from the COG).

Anyway, updated wings:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v56/UnknownTarget/Wingstexture2.jpg)
Title: Next up!
Post by: n00by on April 02, 2005, 05:12:15 pm
That's a pity, but it's looking better now anyways. Maybe somebody can help you with that prog?

What about adding some decals to the rear part? Looks so...empty...and...gray...maybe some writing, or some phrase...or is that reserved for the squad logo? BTW, getting rid of that US sign was good. Was to low-res to fit, anyways.

What about some nose art (if you can do it)? Maybe something similar to the one in the link?

Link: http://www.historysaver.com/assets/noseart/p40tigersmithSM.jpg
Title: Next up!
Post by: Unknown Target on April 02, 2005, 05:15:30 pm
I thought of putting both of those on the aircraft. The problem with the back is that whatever I put there ends up looking funny. The problem with the nose art is that since this is a standard aircraft (and hence a standard skin), it'd be weird to have the same nose art on every aircraft. That's a job for decals :)

And anyway, the problem isn't the UVmapping, it's the way the textures are arranged. I have the two sides of the fuselage as seperate parts, then the top of the wing as a completely seperate part.


And I knew that the P40 would be anyone's obvious choice to put for the nose art :D
Title: Next up!
Post by: n00by on April 02, 2005, 05:24:31 pm
Okay, didn't know about the programs habits of messing with your intentions;7. Once again, maybe somebody can help out.

Well, you've got a point with the nose art...totally forgotten about that.

Does the arrangement of the parts screw the textures over? Sorry if this question is dumb, but I don't know jack about modeling...

Heh, Google is power  :thepimp:
Title: Next up!
Post by: Unknown Target on April 02, 2005, 06:04:32 pm
It sort of does - it's hard to blend two things together if they're completely seperate from each other :)

And anyway, bottom is done. This means the entire external is done, and I'm moving to the cockpit:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v56/UnknownTarget/bottom.jpg)
Title: Next up!
Post by: Ypoknons on April 03, 2005, 01:18:16 am
I like the fighter, UT. Will this be for a mod? The idea of sci-fi that's not very far removed from today is appealing ...

Yes I did want to respond on the Orion comment. It's huge sure, but we don't know very much about Freespace engineering, so a multitude of things could take up all that space. Maybe fighter fuel takes up a lot of space. We get the impression that Freespace ships can stay in space indefinately, but do we actually know? Or maybe the Orion needs huge power generators etc... I think what I'm trying to say is that there are plenty of possible reasons why the Orion has to be so big.
Title: Next up!
Post by: Unknown Target on April 03, 2005, 07:29:26 pm
Yes, it will be for a mod (hopefully), but I need more help to finish it (the mod) :)

And I'm taking a break for now, but this is where I'm at:


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v56/UnknownTarget/5b549ac0.jpg)

EDIT: Updated the picture a bit.
Title: Next up!
Post by: StratComm on April 03, 2005, 07:32:19 pm
Whaaa!  The polys! They burn!

Nice cockpit.  But, like the landing gear, I hope it's for rendering only.
Title: Next up!
Post by: Ghost on April 03, 2005, 07:34:30 pm
...You modelled the control sticks. Holy ****, this is going to be murder on my computer, especially if there's a squadron of them.
Title: Next up!
Post by: Unknown Target on April 03, 2005, 07:37:21 pm
Actually, I'm thinking that this'll probably be for in-cockpit view only. What do you think? Good enough?

EDIT: And right now the cockpit is 986 polies. It'll probably be around 1200 when I put in the pilot, bringing the whole shebang to about 3000 polies when completed.
Title: Next up!
Post by: StratComm on April 03, 2005, 07:38:59 pm
That's actually not too bad.  Add another 500+ for the external view cockpit, but the idea's about right.
Title: Next up!
Post by: Rictor on April 03, 2005, 07:55:47 pm
put in some furry dice or a Vasudan bobble-head on the dash

doooo eeeet!
Title: Next up!
Post by: Deepblue on April 04, 2005, 02:15:44 am
If it's not too late kill the orca fin...
Title: Next up!
Post by: StratComm on April 04, 2005, 02:21:51 am
General rule of thumb: if he's mapping, it's too late to suggest geometry changes.