Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Pnakotus on April 13, 2005, 11:47:24 pm
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FS2 has a few mission errors. It doesn't use many of the new features that the team has implemented, and simply putting them in there would change the missions.
So, consider this a test of the waters. How would people feel about playing 'remastered' FS2, with the same story, characters, missions etc, but rebuilt to a) use all the new features properly, b) retain balance (although, maybe fix the easyeasyeasyHARDeasy nature of the campaign).
I appreciate that changes would be slight, and changes to the overall feel of the game are to be avoided, but when the old FS2 campaign looks like ass next to our campaign authors work, it's time for a facelift.
To go further than bugfixing and updating, the capabilities of the engine are massively superior to the release engine, and many missions could be improved by a general increase in scale. First, though, I'd like to see if people are religiously attached to the original untainted FS2 campaign, or if, like the classic Derelict, it's time to take another look.
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Seconded.
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Isn't this just what FreeSpace Upgrade Project (http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~freespace/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=94) is there for? Although it seems they are lacking staff at the moment.
Edit: My cousin used to use "Wanderer" as his nick... Makes me wonder. :)
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No, the FSUP is a campaign to show off the new SCP features; a sort of FS3.
Go right ahead if you want to. There are a few purists who will say no, but it's not like you'll be forced to play it...you can always stick your fingers in your ears and hum 'Dixie' to pretend it doesn't exist. :p
I'd suggest you check out the old 3.6.5 aseffects tables, Lightspeed added some special Shivan weapons that might be nice to have for the campaign. The Port also has a fixed FS2 mission included with it (I don't remember which one exactly).
But if you do, don't use the table itself; it breaks localization, many of the Xstrings are set to -1 for no discernable purpose, and the tech descriptions have some trivial tweaks which might be best left out in the interest of internationalization.
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Oh well. Maybe FSUP can pick up this job too? ;)
Edit: Timewarp strikes again.
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The port has several fixed FS2 missions. But those are mostly fixing minor errors, like "Regulas" for the Regulus jump node and "Bastion" instead of "GTD Orion" for the Bastion's ship class.
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wait why wouldnt the Bastion be an Orion? or are you saying you made it an Orion and :v: messed up?
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Replay COTTII (without the Port installed) and take a look at the Bastion's ship class.
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Originally posted by Goober5000
The port has several fixed FS2 missions. But those are mostly fixing minor errors, like "Regulas" for the Regulus jump node and "Bastion" instead of "GTD Orion" for the Bastion's ship class.
Uh, the Bastion is a GTD Orion. Unless you mean the nameplate? (Which IIRC had no problems, but it's been awhile sinc eI played that particular mission.)
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hmm....another interesting thing to fix would be to create an entirely new weapons set for the Shivans - it's simply ridiculous they are using the same cyclops and helios torpedoes that the GTVA are, not to mention the other secondary weapons. But to do this a LOT of new missile models will be needed - a daunting which I dont think anyone is upto.
of course, all the new weapons have to be balanced a bit too, to preserve the mission's balance as well.
FRED-wise, a lot can be done, but it's mostly fixes like making sure the Iceni and the Hinton don't crash, or making the Colossus fire it's cannons at the Hawkwood properly, or stuff like that.
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Hes talking about the targeting information that is displayed. The bastion has it's own seperate model and table entry in FS2.
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I'd rather have you leave the campaign as-is, but obviously I wouldn't be able to stop you in any way; as someone said earlier, as long as I wasn't forced to play the "remastered" version, I'd be fine with it. I'll keep the [V] original, even with the occasional bug. Guess I'm one of those purists. :D
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Meh, I'm not sure what the point is. None of the missions in FS2 seemed to be broken to me. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Derelict on the other hand does more than a couple errors, hence it does need fixing.
Basically, why re-write the FS2 missions if those energies could be directed towards writing new missions and new campaigns? .
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Ugh... play COTTII and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. The Bastion is a GTD Orion, but it's given an alt-name as "Bastion". Thus, the ship name is Bastion and the ship class is also Bastion. One of the fixes we added was to change the alt-name back to GTD Orion.
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Don't you think it deserves its own class when it's loaded up insanely with Meson warheads and only has a skeleton crew? ;)
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I expected a much more negative response.
I think simlpy letting people play the FS2 campaign with missions designed by a sensible person with the capablitites of SCP would be worth it: indeed Lightspeeds weapons were one of the things that nudged me over the edge, but also many of the later, obviously rushed missions that were crying out for more everything.
Then again, I'd make the capguns projectile speed x3, increase skill and decrease waves of badguys, and generally spread out the missions and include more 'going on' in the larger battles. THAT'D get a negative response :)
Simply creating new shivan weaponclasses and reusing the models would be an improvement, albiet probably not worth the time. Curing 'everyone dies, every time' disease is a goal probably outside the scope. Doesn't the FS2 campaign even use the old nebulas and planets? Ugh.
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Originally posted by Singh
hmm....another interesting thing to fix would be to create an entirely new weapons set for the Shivans - it's simply ridiculous they are using the same cyclops and helios torpedoes that the GTVA are, not to mention the other secondary weapons. But to do this a LOT of new missile models will be needed - a daunting which I dont think anyone is upto.
of course, all the new weapons have to be balanced a bit too, to preserve the mission's balance as well.
FRED-wise, a lot can be done, but it's mostly fixes like making sure the Iceni and the Hinton don't crash, or making the Colossus fire it's cannons at the Hawkwood properly, or stuff like that.
You gotta join our: "All hail Lightspeed Master of Textures" clan.
He already did make a number of those for the Shivans.
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If you need a list...
- The whole Iceni/Hinton thing.
- "The Vasudans have destroyed the Hinton!" - nuff said. Not sure if it'll be posible to fix without doing additional voice acting though.
- The mission where the Colossus defends Enif station has just caused so many problems, it's not even funny. Mostly occuring when the Colossus jumps in and tries to shoot stuff.
- The thing Goob fixed with the Bastion, now that I understand what it was (Amazing, we agree on something for once)
- The Shivan ships need new guns (again, I direct you to aseffects)
- Glow maps can be turned on/off. Unfortunately, there isn't really a way to make them flicker, and I think they turn on instantly, but it'd still be a nice touch in some situations.
- Maybe it was just me, but choosing a stealth ship never really seemed to do anything. (This is a pipe dream, but it'd be nice if on higher difficulties the ships actually cloaked.)
- That one mission where the Phoenicia is supposed to get away, I hear it doesn't sometimes.
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- That one mission where the Phoenicia is supposed to get away, I hear it doesn't sometimes.
It is supposed to actually get away? The only time it ever left for me was when some sex-p went off and made it invulnerable while the chick was complaining about her orders.
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Step one complete.
In a pique of retentiveness, I edited the weapon text to reflect ingame damages, display power drain and rates of fire, and generally not suck... 'HiVel'? Great description! :)
I noticed a comment about lowering cyclops damage until the ships fired at incoming bombs: is that an SCP comment? Shouldn't it be raised again, since they do shoot at bombs now? Also, the treb has a massive multiplier for subsystem damage, making it do more damage over longer range than the stilleto. Needs fixing.
I'm building a list of things that should be messed with: I might have to (shudder) play through the campaign again on different difficulties and see what I notice. Any suggestions welcome!
What do people think of the flow of the campaign? I found it frustrating that the difficulty of the mission was entirely unrelated to the objectives: big, war winning missions were often easy, because of the caps, other wings etc, whereas small, basically hedge-trimming missions could be very hard because the three morons in your wing die and you fight 40-60 enemy alone. This could be easily fixed.
Next few weeks will be small stuff and planning: mids are up soon, and I'm a little too busy to commit to anything major. Does the new FRED actually work?
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It is supposed to get away, sort of. I've never been quite sure, because the invulnerability SEXP always triggered for me when I was watching it, and yet the Sobek that arrives after the Sath jumps out complains about being in a large debris field. Never been 100% sure which way it's supposed to go, but it shouldn't rely on SEXP timing one way or the other.
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But little glitches like that are part of the charm of the original campaign. Watching the Phoenicia get dealt the equivalent of Russian roulette was the only thing that kept me in a good mood while replaying that mission umpteen times to try to destroy all four beams. :p As far as the main campaign goes, you can make what changes you want, but I'm sticking to pure [V].
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Yeah for the first few moments of that mission there's nothing to do but check out the Phoenicia.
"Will it get away? Will it? No . . . there she goes! KABOOM!"
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I nearly forgot:
Fix Mentu! Though it appears only in a few missions (or only one?), its turrets need changes (nothing PCS/modview can not do). Some normals on turrets are reversed (some topside turrets fire below the ship), and fluff states it was the first Vasudan cruiser to have effective beam weapons though infact it is one of the few cruisers that doesn't have any beams.
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Mentu has beams, AAAf, it just doesn't have Anti-ship beams as its description states.
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While updating the weapon spec text, I noticed a lot of discrepancies between tech-room fluff and ingame performance. The Mentu is pretty galling, though, since it's supposed to be a hightech cruiser, and it's a piece of ****.
One of my pet peeves in FS2 is the irritating no-beams thing. Ships not using AAAf, even when the bombs are running. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
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The Mentu is a classic example of good weapons and bad placement. Trust me: that's not something you want to come in at from the top. I think the Mentu was originally supposed to have an SVas in the turret that now houses an Subach. Regardless, it doesn't anymore.
As for your second concern, that's a FREDder-was-stupid problem, not a game one.
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Originally posted by ngtm1r
As for your second concern, that's a FREDder-was-stupid problem, not a game one.
I realise that: but it will be fixed, oh yes.
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Also Terran AWACs (Charybdis) has some interesting turret firepoint placements, though if you are really good it should not get to fire its weapons in the game.
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can you make the Psamtik trash the two NTF cruisers in mission 3?
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How about having the Neptu (Sobek class in 1st Blue Lions mission) allowed to jump out if by some miracle you manage to protect it, and make it a bonus objective. I'd also like to see the Plato from FS1 M5 able to jump out if you manage to protect it all the way up to the node, but there's no supporting voice files either in-mission or in the debriefing to support this.
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Something else I noticed:... in Clash of the Titans II, at least one of the Aeolus (the top one) seems to be on the waypoint path that the Bastion is also on. I haven't opened it up in FRED to check, but for some reason the cruiser tried to fly downwards through the Bastion when it got near the node...I'm guessing that's why. :p
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Originally posted by Trivial Psychic
How about having the Neptu (Sobek class in 1st Blue Lions mission) allowed to jump out if by some miracle you manage to protect it, and make it a bonus objective.
Oh god, yes please. I remember smashing my head against the desk repeatedly, after saving the stupid thing last time I played the campaign....only to watch it park at the jump node...waiting for the end of days.
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[Homer Simpson voice] D'oh! [/Homer Simpson voice]
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That's what the :doh: Smiley is for. :p
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this whole thread wreaks of nubb....
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*smells* Peeeyewww! And no, this is not actually spam. :nervous: