Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kie99 on April 14, 2005, 01:50:03 am
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Who will you vote for in the UK general election?
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Veritas. They have hands down the best marketing ("http://eclectech.co.uk/veritasparty.php").
edit: How come there's no "The Monarchy" option? Isn't that treason or something?
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I thought Veritas and UKIP were one and the same (the Moster Raving Loony Party)?
Um.... as it stands, either the SNP (Scottish National Party; in no way whatsoever related to the scummy racist bastards of the BNP in policy or political leaning) or Lib Dems.
The 2 leading parties are both lying, fear-mongering (Labour on Terrorism, Tories on asylum seekers / gypsies / anyone who isn't in their key target demographic) bastards (and other things, but they're not shared...) anyways; I literally have nothing but disgust reserved for them.
I know the BBC news ignores the existence of Scotland, N'Ireland and Wales in their election reporting, but the SNP and Plaid Cymru are still bigger parties than Veritas, UKIP, Respect or the BNP (xenophobic, xenophobic, two-faced wanker, racist parties respectively) and thus should be in that poll. Also, where's the Green Party (again bigger than those four)?
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I'm a protest voter, so veritas.
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The Kilroy party?! :wtf:
If you want to vote on a single issue, at least vote UKIP or something that isn't a big ego-trip. I mean, it's led by a bloke who formed it because he couldn't get elected as leader of the others. I dread to imagine the consequences if that perma-tanned wankpot gets any (more?) media coverage.
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So the Scottish National party can rule Britain?
Could some Mod/Admin add the Green Party to the poll.
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Originally posted by kietotheworld
So the Scottish National party can rule Britain?
Could some Mod/Admin add the Green Party to the poll.
The SNP can be elected to the Westminister parliament, yes.
In terms of the seats it has candidates standing in (never mind those it could realisitically win), it's more 'likely' to rule Britain than Veritas, UKIP, Respect or the good ole Monster Raving Loonies.
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Labour missed their chance. They never ever got it through their heads that they weren't voted in because we thought they were right, or that their policies were sound, not that they kept to them anyway, they got voted for because they weren't conservative, and at the time, anything was better than conservative, what with the constant embezzlement cases and MP being found dead, naked, handcuffed, in womens underwear and with an orange stuffed in their mouth. Not the sort of guy you really want represesenting you, though the dead part may be handy ;)
I'm not letting the Connies back in if I can help it, else they'll just adopt an attitude of 'I told you so', and probably end up exactly where they were 8 years ago.
So my views at the moment are leaning towards the Lib Dems, they haven't had a go for a while, so I think we should let them drive. At least they are being honest enough to say that it will cost to pull us out of this current mess, though I can't quite figure out why their only solution is to raise taxes rather than stop spending bloated amounts of money on stupid, pointless stuff.
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GOOBER!!! Stop ruining my polls!
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I cast my vote for the Nazis. Because Nazis have cool uniforms.
:p
(And I'm not british, so I can screw up your electoral system all I want)
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Originally posted by Shrike
I cast my vote for the Nazis. Because Nazis have cool uniforms.
What, the BNP?
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:nod:
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So you favor Norse gods then? Or was that BP18 or something along those lines that worshipped Odin?
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Originally posted by Grey Wolf
So you favor Norse gods then? Or was that BP18 or something along those lines that worshipped Odin?
?
I can only think of 'Combat 18', a notorious neo-nazi / hooligan group from the 90s. But AFAIk they were just plain old racist/bigoted nutcases rather than worshipping Odin or the like.
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Originally posted by Shrike
I cast my vote for the Nazis. Because Nazis have cool uniforms.
:p
(And I'm not british, so I can screw up your electoral system all I want)
Illinois Nazis? remember what happened to them?
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I'm going to vote for Orrin Hatch.
Seriously, you guys can have him.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
?
I can only think of 'Combat 18', a notorious neo-nazi / hooligan group from the 90s. But AFAIk they were just plain old racist/bigoted nutcases rather than worshipping Odin or the like.
There was a link here to the group that I'm thinking of in some thread a while back. Really not sure what they were, but they were British Odin-worshipping neo-Nazis. Interestingly enough, in my search for this group in the last few minutes, many neo-Nazis seem to worship Odin. How odd.
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The Nazis drew their 'culture' from a huge variety of sources...
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A lot of Nazism was based around the old Viking and Germanic Gods. A great deal of propoganda was spread around in Germany before WWII about how the 'Arians', the white skinned, Christian people of Europe, were the 'true' people and every great achievement in History was down to their involvement, including the Pyramids and Atlantis, which was the 'City of Odin'.
This is, to be perfectly honest, one of my more sinister concerns regarding some of the crap coming out of Hollywood these days.
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aldo: I don't pretend to be particularly knowledgeable about British politics, but why are RESPECT two-faced wankers? As far as I know, they're just the Lib Dems taken further.
Personally, I'de like to see Labour knocked down a step or five, cause the chances of them actualyl losing the elections are tiny. Kind of like the Liberals here in Canada: they do a ton of **** wrong but people still vote them for lack of a a better choice. There's a huge scandal right now involving the Liberals, and they'll still probably win the next elections, cause none of the other parties are big enough to challenge them, except the Tories, but I don't see that people would trust them enough to give them power.
What's up with the 3 term thing? Most normal countries have a two-term limit on a single person as PM/Prez, and for good reason. Even places like Russia and other questionable democracies have a two-term limit. If Labour wins this one, which they almost certainly will, Blair will have been in power for over a decade....that's scary.
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I, too, though not british, vote for The Monster Raving Looney Party. Sounds appropriate. Since there's no 'The plural of penis is government' group.
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Originally posted by Rictor
What's up with the 3 term thing? Most normal countries have a two-term limit on a single person as PM/Prez, and for good reason. Even places like Russia and other questionable democracies have a two-term limit. If Labour wins this one, which they almost certainly will, Blair will have been in power for over a decade....that's scary.
It's the westminster system AFAIK. It's the same here and in NZ. We've had PMs going for almost 20 years.
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Originally posted by Rictor
aldo: I don't pretend to be particularly knowledgeable about British politics, but why are RESPECT two-faced wankers? As far as I know, they're just the Lib Dems taken further.
Um...not really.
Firstly, you're talking a George Galoway ego trip; this is the same guy who (literal quote was something like "Sir, I salute your
courage, your strength, your indefatigability.") fawned over Saddam Hussein and then called on British troops to desert, disobey orders, etc in the war in Iraq.
Now, as you know, I'm 100% against said war. However, that doesn't make saluting and praising a pretty nasty dictator right. It also doesn't make it right to ask soldiers to effectively rebel against their country (even if the war itself is for the wrong reasons, unless the orders & actions are illegal as combat acts, you need to rely on soldiers to follow orders).
I think it's pretty two-faced to be a British MP, etc, for ages and then actively support an enemy country when at war - even a stupid, illegal and idiotic war - with them. If you're angry at a war, campaign to stop it; it wns over more people than actively saying how much you hope your own countries troops will be driven out and killed.
(Another nitpick is that - prior to the war furore - Galloway was elected as MP of Kelvin, Glasgow. Yet now he's standing in Bethnal, London... and apprarently spent most of his time in Portugal as a Glasgow MP.)
Basically, when you look at Respect & Veritas in particular, they're driven by a single controversial figure on a single issue. That, to me, is not what a political party should be for.
(Incidentally, IIRC Respect is far more 'left wing' than the Liberal Democrats, who are probably a slightly-left-of-centre party; apparently the general secretary of Respect is a guy called John Rees, who was and is one of higher-ups in the English equivalent of the Communist-stroke-Trotskyist party)
Originally posted by Raa
I, too, though not british, vote for The Monster Raving Looney Party. Sounds appropriate. Since there's no 'The plural of penis is government' group.
This years Manifesto;
"Traffic wardens will be re-named Dick Turpin because, let's face it, it's daylight robbery"
"All weapons of mass destruction will be made highly visible so that we can find them."
"Everyone wanting to come and live in the UK will be made welcome, so long as they are over the age of 85 and accompanied by both parents."
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See... I tried... I actually made an effort this time... sat down and looked at all the party policies as written on the BBC website.
In the end, the ONLY party I could find which didn't have at least one policy I was dead against was the Monster Raving Loonie Party. And that's because they don't *have* an entry on the BBC website...
I feel that to not vote is a really bad waste, given that some countries don't even *have* that right, but when you're forced into a "lesser of 6 evils" situation it really doesn't cast a good light on the whole process...
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The thing about Democracy is the ability to choose who's going to screw you over for the next 4 years ;)
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I still feel my views vaguely sumarised by Rage Against The Machines point made in one of their music video (which I don't have with me, so the text may be off slightly):
but I do consistentyl
"(x number) of Americans will not vote in the comming elections, simply for no real choice on the ballot."
Sure, we're talking about England - but my feeling is the same. The major parties have seemed to have a tendency to say anything they can to get the vote, then do none of the things they promised in the run up.
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Very true, that's why no party ever uses 'We will keep to our election pledges' as an election pledge ;)
That is the problem, the only people who consider the next election as somehow choosing good from bad are members of the political parties. The rest of us are just too depressed with the continual regurgitation of lies, damn lies and politics.
It's the one true weakness of Democratic Government. No Prime-Minister will ever start a project that takes more than a short amount of time, because it's not the person in power when a project starts that usually gets the credit ;) It was that unwillingness to commit to anything long term that screwed the Steel and Coal industries and, now those policies of the 1990's are coming home to roost.
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Brit parties get all the cool names. :(
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Originally posted by Kalfireth
I still feel my views vaguely sumarised by Rage Against The Machines point made in one of their music video (which I don't have with me, so the text may be off slightly):
but I do consistentyl
"(x number) of Americans will not vote in the comming elections, simply for no real choice on the ballot."
Sure, we're talking about Britain- but my feeling is the same. The major parties have seemed to have a tendency to say anything they can to get the vote, then do none of the things they promised in the run up.
Ach, at least get the country right; even if the BBC ignores us 90% of the time in the news, we're still involved in this election......
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Which brings up an interseting point, how come there is a Scotish Parliment, a Welsh Parliment and a British Parliment, but no English Parliment?
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Because as much as it pains me to say this, England is pretty much the main state. In other words, Westminster will look out for you guys over the rest of us anyway!
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Hmmmm.... It's interesting actually. It's difficult to say whether having a seperate Parliament for England would either help each part of the UK to manage itself under the auspices of the United Kingdoms, otherwise, they aren't really United, just 'One Big Kingdom and it's Annexes'. Or it may just serve to seperate us more, though to be honest, despite the, mostly, friendly jibes between the various parts of the UK, I really don't see that happening.
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I always thought the whole point of devolved parliaments was that people in Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland feel unrepresented by Westiminister. England is always going to be the 'dominant partner' in terms of UK politics, so IMO the Westminister parliament already, naturally, represents the wishes of England primarily.
If you look at what has been mooted, it's along the lines of regional assemblies in England; so it's another example of people possibly feeling isolated from the government in London.
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How did I know that Snuffleupagus would win? :p
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True, decentralisation would do a hell of a lot to relieve that, but I think the resistance you'll meet there is from Londoners, who like being the Capital city AND the home to the Government. But it certainly makes sense to me that the Minister for the Lake District area shouldn't be living in a 3 bedroom house in North London etc.
UT : Cos Snuffleupagus would beat Prescott in an arm wrestle ;)
Edit : Talking of Prescott, I still find myself thinking that I cannot think of a single civilian in this country whom, when so clearly identified as punching someone, even if they had thrown an egg at him (I mean, we get prosecuted for daring to stand up to thugs in our own neighbourhoods) and not be taken to court. If it had been a fight between 2 members of the public, both people would have been arrested for causing an affray, assault, Breaches of the Public Order act and, in Prescotts' case, being a fat obnoxious git.
Par Example : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/03/30/npist30.xml
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Amazing. In Soviet Amerika, Politicians don't resort to physical altercations.
....Yet.
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I actually used to like it when punch-ups broke out in Parliament, it takes a lot of passion to swing for someone, and it was kind of good to know our Politicians were that passionate about what they believed.
Not that theres been a decent MP Punch-Up for about 30 years now :(
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Originally posted by Flipside
True, decentralisation would do a hell of a lot to relieve that, but I think the resistance you'll meet there is from Londoners, who like being the Capital city AND the home to the Government. But it certainly makes sense to me that the Minister for the Lake District area shouldn't be living in a 3 bedroom house in North London etc.
UT : Cos Snuffleupagus would beat Prescott in an arm wrestle ;)
Edit : Talking of Prescott, I still find myself thinking that I cannot think of a single civilian in this country whom, when so clearly identified as punching someone, even if they had thrown an egg at him (I mean, we get prosecuted for daring to stand up to thugs in our own neighbourhoods) and not be taken to court. If it had been a fight between 2 members of the public, both people would have been arrested for causing an affray, assault, Breaches of the Public Order act and, in Prescotts' case, being a fat obnoxious git.
Par Example : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/03/30/npist30.xml
Well... much as I dislike the guy, I can't really complain about that; because if someone chucked an egg onto me, I'd probably do a hell of a lot more than just give a weak jab.
Worth nothing the airgun things comes quite soon after a toddler was killed by one in Scotland, and a young teenager nearly killed; there's a definite backlash that'd affect sentencing & the jury in that case. It's harsh, though; it's punishing her almost as much for the polices failings as it is her actions.
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Originally posted by Flipside
I actually used to like it when punch-ups broke out in Parliament, it takes a lot of passion to swing for someone, and it was kind of good to know our Politicians were that passionate about what they believed.
Not that theres been a decent MP Punch-Up for about 30 years now :(
I didn't say it was bad... ;)
American politicians are in it for the money. They couldn't give two rat's asses what their decision's consequences will be.
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Yep, I saw that one in Scotland about the baby whilst looking for that link :(
And I agree with you Aldo, I'd probably lose my rag myself, but the difference I suppose is the application of law, personally, I don't blame him for punching the guy, I suppose my problem is that the way the law works here, anyone of not such a high social standing would have been arrested, it's the inconsistency of the law as much as it's, and I don't use this word lightly, fear in the Police that is making matters, at least in London, though most likely in most of Britain, get rapidly worse and worse. the Police refuse to come out and deal with troublemakers, and this is when you have phoned to complain about 5 times, they still say they can't help.
If the Police are not going to bother doing their job, then why are they surprised when people take matters into their own hands. The Polce have to accept that the less they deal with the small problems, the more big problems they are going to see, and not simply hide in the Station and hope it will go away.
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Originally posted by Kalfireth
I still feel my views vaguely sumarised by Rage Against The Machines point made in one of their music video (which I don't have with me, so the text may be off slightly):
but I do consistentyl
"(x number) of Americans will not vote in the comming elections, simply for no real choice on the ballot."
Sure, we're talking about England - but my feeling is the same. The major parties have seemed to have a tendency to say anything they can to get the vote, then do none of the things they promised in the run up.
The solution of course is to make a new party. :p
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Correction: Partay!
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Well, since I found a quote, and this is the closest thing to a political debate I could find (:p) here it goes:
Q: How many Bush Administration officials does it take to change a light bulb?
A: None. There is nothing wrong with the light bulb; its condition is improving every day. Any reports of its lack of incandescence are illusional spin from the liberal media. Illuminating rooms is hard work. That light bulb has served honorably, and anything you say undermines the lighting effort. Why do you hate freedom?
:p
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Actually, I think it's more like, "Only terrorists use light bulbs. We here in the US of A use bottle sunshine run through electrical wires!"
Or how about:
"They pass a new law mandating that no citizen may be allowed to change the light bulb, in case they plug some dangerous device into the socket, and form a national commission to study the security implications of importing another light bulb. It is then subcontracted to a business run by one of Bush's family, which imports the bulb from a light-bulb factory in a small third-world country taking advantage of its lax pollution laws. Finally, the building that contains the lightbulb is seized by a SWAT team, and the light bulb is finally installed."
John Kerry's response on these excesses:
"They may have X-rayed the light bulb, but they didn't open it to make sure no biological agents were inside!"
Ralph Nader's response:
"We need to find a clean way of producing light bulbs before our country can even begin to consider replacing them."
Fox News:
"Earlier today, the first light bulb was replaced under the 'Bright Sunshiney Day' act. Although no one except is allowed to see whether the new bulb actually works or not, for matters of national security, the federal government informs us that everything *is* well and that any reports of unusual activity near the light bulb may or may not be true. We now turn you live, over to a fair and unbalanced debate as to whether or not the Democrats know that staring directly at a light bulb for long periods of time can harm your eyes, but do not publicize the fact. Tonight, the debate is between a Republican representative, Dick Cheney; a neutral party, Jeb Bush; and a Democratic Representative, Michael Jackson."
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I won't vote. I am not British.
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Around this area we have "Health Concern" which is a protest party formed after the closure of our local hospital. This is a heavily conservative area so my vote is going "Health Concern" to keep those scummy ****ing Tories out.
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Originally posted by 01010
Around this area we have "Health Concern" which is a protest party formed after the closure of our local hospital. This is a heavily conservative area so my vote is going "Health Concern" to keep those scummy ****ing Tories out.
Ah, so it's not just Scotland that has the inexplicable closure of hospitals*? The 'Save Stobhill' (hospital) candidate in the constituency next to mine was actually elected in the last Scottish Parliament elections.
*It appears Labours grand plan is to close every single hospital in the entire country and instead build a gigantic monsterous single hospital that requires hours and hours to travel to
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Ah, so it's not just Scotland that has the inexplicable closure of hospitals*? The 'Save Stobhill' (hospital) candidate in the constituency next to mine was actually elected in the last Scottish Parliament elections.
*It appears Labours grand plan is to close every single hospital in the entire country and instead build a gigantic monsterous single hospital that requires hours and hours to travel to
Our hospital closure started with the Conservatives, however Labour did precisely **** all to stop it. Health Concern actually won this seat too, which is nice, keeps the Tories out. I just wish there was actually a REAL alternative.
Yeah, we now have a "Super Hospital" at Worcester, which is a good 20 miles away, you better hope that when you get sick, you don't need *immediate* attention otherwise you are ****ed.
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In a way it is good to see these minor parties taking seats from large ones. It might actually, with time, suggest to them that there are certain aeras of their policies where they have to deal with things on a 1-1 basis and not try to install a set of rules and then go on holiday to Antigua for 2 months.
This always cracks me up about our government though, they want to compact local hospitals into one large area one, but yet have done absolutely **** all to improve the transport system to a level where that will actually work, and probably will do nothing about getting people to these hospitals until after they are open and people are dying because of poor roads/transportation.
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Hmm. These little groups are winning, eh? This is like what my mother read about one of the old towns I lived in, where the people were so fed up with the town council that they elected an 18 year old to office over the 60-something year old that had been there. :D
I may run some time :p
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Snuffleupagus
:D
EDIT: Whoa, this one is really winning.....
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"Some ****'s getting chibbed for that..."
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Originally posted by Raa
Hmm. These little groups are winning, eh? This is like what my mother read about one of the old towns I lived in, where the people were so fed up with the town council that they elected an 18 year old to office over the 60-something year old that had been there. :D
I may run some time :p
I think you should. I think that more young people should be involved with politics, it's how things get changed. How does some middle aged rich public schoolboy with his ideas on how things should be run represent anyone but middle aged rich public schoolboys. We should be gettting actively involved in the political process while we still have the chance, before the avenues are closed to us to make a difference and before we become an oppressed people.
It is absolutely vital that we young people stand up for what we believe while we have the chance.
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Originally posted by kietotheworld
Which brings up an interseting point, how come there is a Scotish Parliment, a Welsh Parliment and a British Parliment, but no English Parliment?
It's so that the Scottish and Welsh Labour MPs can screw us over by voting in proposals that won't affect their own constituencies e.g tuition fees.
Quite frankly it's a big con and if Scotland and Wales have a right to tell the English to butt out of local policies I think the English should have exactly the same right.
The British parliment should only be voting on laws which affect the whole of the UK. No more of this test the poll tax in Scotland or everyone voting on laws that only affect England.
I'll probably be voting Lib Dem as a protest vote. Not voting at all in protest is just stupid. No one can tell the difference between protest and laziness.
BTW. Just noticed a couple of votes for the BNP. Were's my garotte.
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I'd edit that post if I were you.
(I fear the Admins :shaking: )
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We ought to send the poll off to some british Polis and see if anyone tries to get snuffulupagus to direct preferences... :D
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Originally posted by kietotheworld
I'd edit that post if I were you.
(I fear the Admins :shaking: )
What the hell for? :wtf:
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Originally posted by karajorma
It's so that the Scottish and Welsh Labour MPs can screw us over by voting in proposals that won't affect their own constituencies e.g tuition fees.
Quite frankly it's a big con and if Scotland and Wales have a right to tell the English to butt out of local policies I think the English should have exactly the same right.
The British parliment should only be voting on laws which affect the whole of the UK. No more of this test the poll tax in Scotland or everyone voting on laws that only affect England.
I'll probably be voting Lib Dem as a protest vote. Not voting at all in protest is just stupid. No one can tell the difference between protest and laziness.
BTW. Just noticed a couple of votes for the BNP. Were's my garotte.
Actually, the introduction of top-up fees has a major effect on Scottish and Welsh universities (for example); firstly it brings in a funding differential, secondly it affects Scottish and Welsh students who may wish to study in England, and thirdly it results in an increased amount of applications for Scottish & Welsh universities from English students. In the latter case, it raises significant issues over 'national' boundaries.
I suspect you'll find the majority of similar issues will have a similar and significant knock on effect on Scotland and Wales; that's why Scottish and Welsh MPs vote on them.
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originally Posted by Shrike
Originally Posted by Aldo_14
Originally posted by Shrike
I cast my vote for the Nazis. Because Nazis have cool uniforms.
What, the BNP?
:nod:
That's why. and I fear them because they could Ban me.
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LOL Yeah, but that's....Shrike, you just hae to look at his Avatar ... ;)
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You guys have way too many political parties. It's wussy. We Americans are so strong that we can take all our perspectives and force them into two categories.
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Originally posted by Ford Prefect
You guys have way too many political parties. It's wussy. We Americans are so strong that we can take all our perspectives and force them into two categories.
Yeah, and that's why your country is so screwed up. ;) :p
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LOL I think FP was joking, at least, I really hope he was.
It may, though, explain why there is this tendency to believe that all situations are Polar with only two possible sides.
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Yeah, and that's why your country is so screwed up.
Pshh! Shows how much you know. We're a trillion bucks in the red, those gays still can't marry, and we're at war! Beat that.