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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: redmenace on April 18, 2005, 05:08:35 pm

Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: redmenace on April 18, 2005, 05:08:35 pm
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=58579

*Tingling Feeling* :nod:
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: aldo_14 on April 18, 2005, 05:20:30 pm
Meh.  They're quoting/going off a PC Gamer article that gives virtually no new information...
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Blitzerland on April 18, 2005, 05:28:10 pm
*looks at article comments*

Lots of people complaining about Steam. Whiny little 56k-ers. :p
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: aldo_14 on April 18, 2005, 05:34:58 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Blitzerland
*looks at article comments*

Lots of people complaining about Steam. Whiny little 56k-ers. :p


I think Steam is a barrel of ****e and I'm on 512 broadband, so don't dismiss it so casually.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: BlackDove on April 18, 2005, 06:00:17 pm
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
I think Steam is a barrel of ****e


Signed by yours truly.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: vyper on April 18, 2005, 06:15:05 pm
It's growing on me.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Slasher on April 18, 2005, 06:18:46 pm
This does not boost my self eSteam.  Haha!  Get it?
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Flipside on April 18, 2005, 06:21:32 pm
I don't think it's Steam as such I don't trust. In theory it's a good idea, it's when you add the ethics and concerns regarding how not just Hackers, but fully fledged companies are trying to nose around inside your computer that it starts to make me a little..... uncomfortable.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: redsniper on April 18, 2005, 06:22:07 pm
*hopes that this is to HL2 what Hordes of the Underdark was to Neverwinter Nights*
probably wishful thinking :nervous:
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: WMCoolmon on April 18, 2005, 06:26:32 pm
Aftermath looks good, but I hope it'll be available from outside of Steam. Predictably, steam opens up all its links in an IE window, which I've sworn off.

Not to mention taking up 50 MB of space when I play CounterStrike.

Code: [Select]
int AllocationSize = GetTotalSystemPhysicalRam() / 10;
char *garbage = (char *)malloc(AllocationSize);

if(GetTotalFreeRam() < 51200)
{
     if(Prompt("You are currently low on RAM! Would you like to buy some more?"))
     {
          Steam.Open.Hardware.ValvePartners();
     }
     else
     {
          Steam.GetAppHandle("Counter-Strike")->Close();
          Steam.Error("Sorry, there is not enough memory to start Counter-Strike!");
     }
}
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Ghostavo on April 18, 2005, 06:37:29 pm
Quote
Originally posted by redsniper
*hopes that this is to HL2 what Hordes of the Underdark was to Neverwinter Nights*
probably wishful thinking :nervous:


Full circle on the storyline?
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Carl on April 18, 2005, 06:56:14 pm
well at least we know that Alyx doesn't die in the citadel blast.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Unknown Target on April 18, 2005, 07:30:56 pm
I think Half Life 2 was a pile of ****. The game would have been good, if it didn't have a five minute load time for thirty seconds of gameplay.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Turnsky on April 18, 2005, 07:37:20 pm
i've found that steam does not like world of warcraft, i just switch it off.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Liberator on April 18, 2005, 08:19:35 pm
Let's face it, Steam sucks.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Ford Prefect on April 18, 2005, 08:26:51 pm
That is the truth. I find it absurd that I have to be connected to the internet to play a single-player game.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Carl on April 18, 2005, 09:11:19 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Unknown Target
I think Half Life 2 was a pile of ****. The game would have been good, if it didn't have a five minute load time for thirty seconds of gameplay.


so that one thing is enough to turn a good game into a pile of ****?

and 5 min for 30 sec is a gross exaggeration, unless you have a really bad puter.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: BlackDove on April 18, 2005, 09:29:36 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Slasher
This does not boost my self eSteam.  Haha!  Get it?


Yeah. Haha!


:wtf:
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Ulala on April 18, 2005, 09:32:51 pm
heh.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Fury on April 18, 2005, 11:25:59 pm
Nothing wrong with Steam in my personal opinion. The system can become more popular among game developers as far as I am concerned.  And Ford Prefect, do you realize that Steam does also have offline mode? So no need to be connected to internet to play anything.

HL2 was a good game, I hope Aftermath lives up to the high expectations.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Ford Prefect on April 18, 2005, 11:31:24 pm
But you need an internet connection to run Steam to begin with. Therefore, I cannot install HL2 on the computer in my room, which has better specs, but no internet connection. This, in my opinion, is lame.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: WMCoolmon on April 18, 2005, 11:46:17 pm
Offline mode only works if you've got Steam remembering your password. There's also some conditions where it won't work - IIRC, such as the steam servers being online but not working properly.

Steam turns your software purchase into an indefinite-length loan, subject to Valve's approval (or disapproval) whenever you use the software. Not to mention that Valve doesn't seem to have a problem with accidentally disabling user's accounts when they've been using it completely legally. (Still gotta pay the $10 fee)
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: StratComm on April 18, 2005, 11:48:21 pm
You could always physically move the computer if you got desperate.  I refuse to install it because I like my system to remain stable, and I just don't trust it.  Anytime you dedicate a process to making sure something is still legally yours once it's been installed, I'm a little suspect.  But I also don't have any firsthand experience.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Fury on April 19, 2005, 01:59:27 am
Quote
Originally posted by Ford Prefect
But you need an internet connection to run Steam to begin with. Therefore, I cannot install HL2 on the computer in my room, which has better specs, but no internet connection. This, in my opinion, is lame.

I almost commented to your replies, but then I found out it would be useless from my point of view, and only stir up possible flaming.

Have a nice day.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: IPAndrews on April 19, 2005, 03:41:16 am
I have absolutely no expectations for this Half Life 2 expansion whatsoever. Based on the story telling skills demonstrated by Valve in Half Life 2 itself. A great game engine wasted.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Carl on April 19, 2005, 04:26:39 am
oh, you're such a party make badder.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Fineus on April 19, 2005, 04:46:05 am
Quote
Originally posted by Carl


so that one thing is enough to turn a good game into a pile of ****?

and 5 min for 30 sec is a gross exaggeration, unless you have a really bad puter.

I wouldn't be to hasty to say that Carl, I've not got a top spec computer anymore but it's certainly no slouch. The incredibly long waiting time for what seems like a quite small amount of gameplay at any one time is unacceptable... especially if you happen to be loading between stages in a corridor and get "lost" then have to reload another two times to continue.

Compared to Half Life the load times are vast. The pace is broken up by this. Add that to the long startup time, unnecessary menu screen level load times and obscure storyline and HL2 isn't the world-beater that the media would have everyone believe.

That is of course - my two cents :)
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: aldo_14 on April 19, 2005, 05:23:46 am
I'd rate Half Life 2 about 80%, myself - it's good (for one thing it has one of the most atmospheric settings I've played, in particular Highway 17) - but it's not that good (lack of context for locations due to the storyline, fairly dull last third with pretty poor squad combat, annoying ending, lack of variety)
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Unknown Target on April 19, 2005, 06:10:37 am
Quote
Originally posted by Carl


so that one thing is enough to turn a good game into a pile of ****?

and 5 min for 30 sec is a gross exaggeration, unless you have a really bad puter.


Yes it is, because I want to play the game, not sit through load times for most of it. I actually went and fixed a microwave TV Dinner during one of the load times, and when I got back, it still wasn't done.

And my computer isn't that bad, either - P4 2.4 Ghz, Geforce 4 4600, 512 MB of RAM.

And Kal's right about the pace, as well: the load times simply break it up, so it feels like you're playing segments of something, not the whole game.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Carl on April 19, 2005, 06:34:59 am
well it was never than bad on mine. and IIRC there is a patch that lessens the loading times.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: BlackDove on April 19, 2005, 07:07:41 am
There's this thing called "Defragmenting your hard drive" as well :p
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Fineus on April 19, 2005, 07:32:45 am
That's what's so irritating about the load times. My computer is tuned to run applications quite quickly. Everything else loads in an acceptable time. The drives are defragged both before and after install.

The fault of this is the games... not my computers.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Fury on April 19, 2005, 07:37:59 am
No software, including games can be programmed to run perfectly on every all systems. That said, I've never experienced too long loading times in HL2, with exception of the startup loading before the menus. Although my A64 with RAID0 and 1 GB RAM setup might have something to do with it.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: aldo_14 on April 19, 2005, 08:49:38 am
Quote
Originally posted by Mr. Fury
No software, including games can be programmed to run perfectly on every all systems. That said, I've never experienced too long loading times in HL2, with exception of the startup loading before the menus. Although my A64 with RAID0 and 1 GB RAM setup might have something to do with it.


However, system disparity is no excuse for programming errors.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: kode on April 19, 2005, 08:54:14 am
Quote
Originally posted by vyper
It's growing on me.


cancer does that too, you know.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Mefustae on April 19, 2005, 10:09:30 am
let's face it, Half Life 2 could never live up to the expectations the media and the general public set it. It was supposed to be as revolutionary to the First Person Shooter genre as Wolfenstein 3D was all those years ago, but of course, HL2 did not live up to those expectations for the simple reason that it COULD not live up to the expectations that were set, they were too damn high! And the same damn thing is going to happen to Aftermath, which should (emphasis on SHOULD) be an improvement to HL2, but will never, and i mean NEVER be as good as everyone hopes...

...and of course, it doesn't help that Steam, a vital component in the Half Life 2 "experience" is about as popular and useful as the dreaded BSOD...
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Ford Prefect on April 19, 2005, 10:30:24 am
Now wait a minute. Steam may suck a lot of metaphorical genitalia, but I still think that Half-Life 2 is possibly the greatest first-person shooter ever.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Scorpius on April 19, 2005, 10:49:56 am
I suppose the possibility of loading the next segment of the level while in game play is out of the question?  As I hear, Halo 2 had that nifty feature and therefore the only load time was at the beginning of a new level.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Fineus on April 19, 2005, 10:57:53 am
It'd certainly shut me up. Surely the only computational power needed while the game is actually running is for physics, processing player input and AI calculations, right? The majority of the graphics is handled by GPUs these days anyway.

So the rest of the idle power could be used for loading the next level, even if it was only partially loaded before the level change you'd see a reduced loading time.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Slanker_MT on April 19, 2005, 11:21:01 am
Quote
Originally posted by Mr. Fury
...And Ford Prefect, do you realize that Steam does also have offline mode?...


True, but there are alot of occasions where that thing doesn´t work... I for myself have to connect once, before I can open Steam (even for opening the map editor) *sigh*

It´s a great game, but it couldn´t live up to the expectations, true.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Flipside on April 19, 2005, 02:09:09 pm
Look on the bright side, for all of it's Steaminess, at least it wasn't the one-play wonder that Doom 3 was.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Unknown Target on April 19, 2005, 03:12:12 pm
At least Doom 3 was enjoyable the first round through. Half Life 2 was a bunch of jumping through hoops. I'd never play it again, either, because of those horrible load times. I remember when you first came...

tiny spoiler:

Spoiler:

out back into the city, with Dog. I waited literally five minutes for this scene. I walk out, a couple combine pop out, and so does a tank. Dog takes the tank and kills the combine, then opens a door for me. I walk through and he does a minor fight with a hovercraft. I walk through a door and the level ends[/quote]

Five minutes of waiting for that?! I didn't even PLAY! I freaking walked through a door and watched another guy kick ass!
Half Life 2 simply did NOT require load times like it did. I've seen other games with HUGE levels that would load almost split-second, or even games JUST as detailed as Half Life 2, (maybe with less physics), with levels about the same size, that loaded in maybe thirty seconds. Half Life 2 is bloatware.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: redsniper on April 19, 2005, 03:34:37 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Ghostavo


Full circle on the storyline?

more like: use the engine to its full potential.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: WMCoolmon on April 19, 2005, 06:59:59 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Mr. Fury
No software, including games can be programmed to run perfectly on every all systems. That said, I've never experienced too long loading times in HL2, with exception of the startup loading before the menus. Although my A64 with RAID0 and 1 GB RAM setup might have something to do with it.


My A64 with 512 MB DDR400 RAM takes minutes to load. Actually, when I was forced to play at 800x600 with everything on medium or low (due to crappy gfx card) load times were acceptable. Now they're ridiculous, and I simply can't play through the game because I don't have the patience to wait that long at my computer. During that time I'm likely to turn the TV on or something, and get so engaged in that, that I completely forget about HL2.

This is in contrast to when I spent a few days doing nothing but replaying HL2 levels 'til I started to get sick of 'em. Unfortunately, I can't take advantage of the new life my new graphics card brings the game because it flatlines after a few minutes.

Fortunately, Counter-Strike doesn't seem to be afflicted by this problem. Unfortunately, it's started to crash spontaneously - after the recent updates Valve made.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Grug on April 19, 2005, 10:38:05 pm
Quote
Originally posted by WMCoolmon
Aftermath looks good, but I hope it'll be available from outside of Steam. Predictably, steam opens up all its links in an IE window, which I've sworn off.

Not to mention taking up 50 MB of space when I play CounterStrike.

Code: [Select]
int AllocationSize = GetTotalSystemPhysicalRam() / 10;
char *garbage = (char *)malloc(AllocationSize);

if(GetTotalFreeRam() < 51200)
{
     if(Prompt("You are currently low on RAM! Would you like to buy some more?"))
     {
          Steam.Open.Hardware.ValvePartners();
     }
     else
     {
          Steam.GetAppHandle("Counter-Strike")->Close();
          Steam.Error("Sorry, there is not enough memory to start Counter-Strike!");
     }
} [/B]


:lol:

HL2 story was kind of a dissapointment for me. Maybe they can turn it around with this.
I hope its not overly priced. Just have to buy it when conversion rates are good for me. :)
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Ace on April 19, 2005, 10:42:03 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Flipside
Look on the bright side, for all of it's Steaminess, at least it wasn't the one-play wonder that Doom 3 was.


Actually I find Doom 3 more replayable than Half-Life 2. HL2 has a few levels that you can replay, but has a lot of lengthy heavilly scripted sequences that become boring after the first time through. (most events with Dog, the first parts of the Citadel, etc.)

Doom 3 and its expansion are very much like the originals in replayability. It's even fun to cheat in the intro level with guns. (especially with the grabber)
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Fury on April 19, 2005, 11:29:18 pm
Doom 3... now there's a game that was so boring I never bothered to finish it. Before another HL2 vs. D3 flame war starts; your mileage may vary.

I predict this thread gets closed after 6 more posts.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: vyper on April 20, 2005, 06:49:48 am
I was weak... I just bought Condition Zero over Steam... Now i've got a 3GB download to wait on...
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: IPAndrews on April 20, 2005, 08:45:45 am
Quote
Originally posted by Mr. Fury
Before another HL2 vs. D3 flame war starts; your mileage may vary.


A vs thread would be rather pointless since they both suck donkey balls. Call of Duty now there's an entertaining FPS. I've just discovered that. Short maybe, but you get so much more out of that game than either of the two soulless monstrosities mentioned above. That said. One day the HL2 engine will be used to make something really, really fun. It just won't be HL2 aftermath.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: aldo_14 on April 20, 2005, 10:34:02 am
:rolleyes:

I've been playing the arse off of the expansion pack multiplayer recently for some reason.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Flipside on April 20, 2005, 12:26:44 pm
I must admit, haven't got the expansion pack yet for Doom 3, was pretty dissapointed with the Original, I wanted a nice Kill-Fest like the other Dooms and got a Bug Hunt instead of a stand-up fight.

Does the expansion add some more variation? Particuarly to the monsters?

And yes, cheating on the start level and running round killing everyone is great fun in a twisted kind of way ;)
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: aldo_14 on April 20, 2005, 12:32:16 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Flipside
I must admit, haven't got the expansion pack yet for Doom 3, was pretty dissapointed with the Original, I wanted a nice Kill-Fest like the other Dooms and got a Bug Hunt instead of a stand-up fight.

Does the expansion add some more variation? Particuarly to the monsters?


Going solely by reviews, no.  There's something like 2 new monsters, one of which is a modified Imp.  From what I've read, it's not a major change or improvement.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: StratComm on April 20, 2005, 03:01:20 pm
Going soly from screenshots, there are at least three new demons; the uber imp, something resembling a siren, and something that looks like a levitating Hell Knight.  The previews say six.  But whatever, I actually enjoyed Doom 3 and will probably give the expansion a go when it drops in price by $10 or so.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Ace on April 20, 2005, 05:04:40 pm
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14


Going solely by reviews, no.  There's something like 2 new monsters, one of which is a modified Imp.  From what I've read, it's not a major change or improvement.


Off the top of my head:
*Old school Doom Lost Souls (flying, flaming skulls)
*Imp-like critters (faster and much smarter than imps)
*"TV head" (big nasty critter with... well a TV head)
*The Hunters (boss monsters with special powers)
*Various new zombies (hazmat suit zombies and zombies using flashlights comes to mind)
*Walking head critters

It uses also more of a variety of the Doom 3 monsters. While Doom 3 was pretty much an Imp/Zombie fest minus a few encounters, the expansion uses a much larger variety.

Overall, the AI while nothing astounding seems better. Some of the Doom 3 monsters like the MarsSec zombies and Imps were pretty bright. (using cover, not blowing themselves up with barrels, unlike the FarCry AI) The expansion's monsters are bright enough to change attack types when you use the grabber to steal their projectiles, they also dodge shots better.

Flipside, if your complaint about Doom 3 was (like mine) that it wasn't a real slaughterfest or a real horror type game you'll like the expansion. It's *much* more intense, since many encounters are designed that you need to use the artifact.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Flipside on April 20, 2005, 05:07:05 pm
Hmmmmmmmmmm.. Well, I will certainly keep my fingers crossed ;)

That said, I've somehow managed to get two topics talking about Doom 3, which I don't even have installed atm, so my apologies for that ;)
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: vyper on April 20, 2005, 05:15:17 pm
****ing CS: Condition Zero takes about three minutes just to start a local server. WTF
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Grug on April 21, 2005, 04:32:41 am
Just burn Condition Zero. That's it, in the bin. Throw the match. Good lad.
:p

I've installed the D3 expansion, I like the fact you don't require the cd in the drive any more.
Havn't played through it yet though. Will have to wait till I'm pissed one day or something and crank the rock up. :)
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: redmenace on April 22, 2005, 12:21:20 am
First Screen Shot
(http://www.gametab.com/images/ss/pc/4019/ss-1.jpg)
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Ace on April 22, 2005, 12:25:14 am
You know what's really stupid about this? They release a shot like that which shows absolutely nothing new for HL2, and the whole internet starts drooling.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Ransom on April 22, 2005, 12:47:16 am
omgomg it's too dark!!!! what r they using, the doom 3 engien??????
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: WMCoolmon on April 22, 2005, 01:13:02 am
*Gets urge to play HL2*

*Remembers loading times*

:sigh:
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Fineus on April 22, 2005, 02:21:31 am
Meh... it's a poorly lit guard and something else thats name escapes me. Hardly has me champing at the bit...
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Grug on April 22, 2005, 04:28:07 am
Aye what a crap shot.

Only good thing is that maybe you get a chance to kill those unarmed naked alien freaks.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: aldo_14 on April 22, 2005, 05:44:40 am
Of the 3 (!) shots they released for the expansion, all of them could pretty much have been made & taken from the original.  'tis entirely pointless; you have to wonder if they're bothering with new content or just going to recycle the old levels and enemies.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: redmenace on April 22, 2005, 10:47:53 am
what you see in the background is a slave basically. They are humans that are incapable of fighting so they are altered at Nova Prospect to be some hideous thing that hardly could pass for human.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: vyper on April 22, 2005, 11:10:11 am
Tis called a Stalker - essentially a captured civvy who's been modified by combine technology (like the soldiers, only for different functions).

Note, the name Stalker comes from the SDK and may not be the actual name in-game.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Stealth on April 22, 2005, 01:35:13 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Unknown Target
I think Half Life 2 was a pile of ****. The game would have been good, if it didn't have a five minute load time for thirty seconds of gameplay.


what are you playing it on?  a 386?

I played HL2 on a barton 2500+ XP, 512 MB RAM, a radeon 9200 (128MB, piece of crap), on xp professional... and while the graphics weren't THAT good, (i had them on medium), the in-game load times only took 10-15 seconds at best.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Stealth on April 22, 2005, 01:37:50 pm
and in response to the "load the next part of the level while you're playing"... i'd rather have the game pause for a few seconds while it loads, than be playing, and suddenly the game's choppy, and slow, and i know "oh yeah. it's loading the next part of the level"


Quote
Half Life 2 simply did NOT require load times like it did. I've seen other games with HUGE levels that would load almost split-second, or even games JUST as detailed as Half Life 2, (maybe with less physics), with levels about the same size, that loaded in maybe thirty seconds. Half Life 2 is bloatware.


yeah, that's it.  They put those load times in various places just to piss us off... they're completely unnecessary.  during those 'load' times the processor's just running a looped script, so it LOOKS like it's working, but in reality, it's doing absolutely nothing
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
HL2 had graphics and physics like no other game up till its time.  the details were amazing.  don't say there are other games that had the same physics, graphic, and player engine that HL2 had, because i've played most major games, and nothing was as intricate as Hl2
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Mystical on April 22, 2005, 01:44:51 pm
(http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/605/605014/half-life-2-aftermath-20050416030621154.jpg)

http://pc.ign.com/articles/605/605014p1.html
Quote
However, perhaps the most exciting tidbit to come out of tonight's update is the very first screenshot from the upcoming HL2 expansion pack: Aftermath. Although rather dark, the screenshot features an imposing Combine soldier guarding a span within what we assume is one of the Combine citadels. There's a figure in the background that appears to be a "stalker" from the original game - a sort of cybernetic zombie wearing a diaper with mechanical lower legs, a visor, creepy chicken-wing arms and one incredibly long left nipple.

We can't make this stuff up, folks


:lol: :lol: :lol:


Doom 3's graphics easily rivaled HL2's graphics... however HL2 was set, for the most part, on wide landscapes, open terrain, where you could explore in any direction... that took large maps and objects to load up.  Doom 3, however, you could usually only go one way, through a passage here, or there, and the levels were a lot smaller.

From the Doom 3 expansion:
(http://us.games2.yimg.com/download.games.yahoo.com/games/buzz/content/p/1/58631/shot00068-the_vulgar.jpg)
Wish i could get graphics like that :blah:
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Flipside on April 22, 2005, 01:49:12 pm
It's a bridge, a silhouette and a barely visible thingy. It could just as easily have been a screenshot from Jedi Academy...

That Doom3 shot looks rather tasty, though I expect it would find my framerate rather edible too :(
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: aldo_14 on April 22, 2005, 03:53:14 pm
Doom 3 strikes me as being the more visually impressive one (as does Far Cry); on the other hand, the last time I was London (on a train from Stanstead to Liverpool St), I found myselft looking at the tower blocks and thinking 'hmm, Half Life 2 looked quite real'.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: redsniper on April 22, 2005, 03:58:14 pm
The buildings in HL2 look OK if you're far away, but up close they're just sad.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Ford Prefect on April 22, 2005, 04:01:45 pm
What I loved about HL2 was the dystopian ambiance. The graphics were put to good use to convey a general feeling of decay, lifelessness, and oppression. It basically felt like Massachusetts in the winter.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: aldo_14 on April 22, 2005, 04:12:13 pm
Quote
Originally posted by redsniper
The buildings in HL2 look OK if you're far away, but up close they're just sad.


I felt they were fine, myself.  Particularly the smaller houses in Highway 17.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: WMCoolmon on April 22, 2005, 05:24:34 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Stealth


what are you playing it on?  a 386?

I played HL2 on a barton 2500+ XP, 512 MB RAM, a radeon 9200 (128MB, piece of crap), on xp professional... and while the graphics weren't THAT good, (i had them on medium), the in-game load times only took 10-15 seconds at best.


AMD64 2800+, 512 MB RAM, GF6600GT (128MB) and load times on High are horrible. We're talking minutes here.


It's a little more bearable in Counter-strike, because it doesn't interrupt the story.

It tends to run fine after loading, but it's sort of silly for something that's graphically just a step beyond Halo.

And Halo has always had THE fastest loading times of any modern game.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Ransom on April 22, 2005, 05:35:55 pm
Quote
Originally posted by WMCoolmon
And Halo has always had THE fastest loading times of any modern game.

What about one of the new Prince of Persia games which do that dynamic loading thing? Which incidentally, is proof that it can be done without making the game go all twitchy. You can go through the whole game without pausing to load once.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: WMCoolmon on April 22, 2005, 05:40:34 pm
Haven't played them. :nervous:

So revise that: "And Halo has always had THE fastest loading times of any modern game that I've played." :p
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: redmenace on April 28, 2005, 10:28:11 pm
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=22880

Footage has been "leaked."
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: aldo_14 on April 29, 2005, 03:57:47 am
Quote
Originally posted by redmenace
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=22880

Footage has been "leaked."


Albeit that's not footage of the expansion pack, but of a single addon level (which has already had screens and video released).
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Fineus on April 29, 2005, 05:45:08 am
In all honesty I think the Doom 3 engine is a pretty powerful one, but the actual content of Doom 3 rather spoils showing it off. The level designs are pretty similar and so - where HL2 ranges from decaying Eastern towns to the Citidal to coastal areas... Doom 3 only has metallic military corridors and curious glowing research / power devices to choose from (and Hell of course) but that's only two locations generally. Neither are likely to look incredibly different given the military complex was all built by the same humans and Hell of course looks fairly uniform.

Not that I'm saying Doom3 is better than HL2. But it's certainly capable of some pretty excellent stuff itself. It's just a shame that none of that was shown off. As for HL2... I fear they went a tad overboard with their locational atmosphere. One of the joys (for me at least) in HL was that you went through all kinds of things... destroyed complex's to deserts to warehouses and goodness knows what else. Lots of intricate little areas that all felt quite different to eachother. If HL was made with the HL2 engine it'd be spectacular. Unfortunately... it's not.

Roll on Battlefield 2, which looks like HL2 but features f-ing vast outdoor areas.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Grug on April 29, 2005, 06:01:54 am
There is Half-Life: Source. :p

Halo levels loaded fast because they were optimised and compiled in a state ready to be loaded directly into RAM.

I'm waiting for someone to license the D3 engine and make a decent game with it. Killing zombies and watching the rust grow on the military style corridors gets tiresome after a while. Basically after I finished Doom1. :doubt:

Half-Life2 made me so angry the first time I played through. For the simple fact that by the end of the game, you still have no bloody clue on whats going on. >(

After a few months I played through again, and found it more enjoyable, if you don't try and think about the storyline at all.

Battlefield 1 ran like crap on my computer, which ran HL2 fairly well. Twas just another game that added to my disgust at EA.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Ransom on April 29, 2005, 06:34:20 am
Quote
Originally posted by Grug
I'm waiting for someone to license the D3 engine and make a decent game with it.

Prey (http://webnv.net/images/ut2006/).
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: vyper on April 29, 2005, 06:56:38 am
http://www.blackmesasource.com/

Dear God - valve should have done as good a job as this when making HL:S.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: redmenace on April 29, 2005, 07:37:33 am
oops I had no idea.

Before they go around releasing new content they ought to fuix the crashes with AMD processors and SP2 as well as the fact that I HL2 for some reason is missing resources and crashing from that as well.

****ing Steam and its Auto Update.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: vyper on April 29, 2005, 07:59:33 am
Holy **** I just watched the dynamic range lighting video... I have never seen something come that close to reality "in-game". I want a new card, a new processor and THAT BUILD OF SOURCE! :D

Btw red, I've got an AMD and SP2 and I've never had problems like that with HL2.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Ghostavo on April 29, 2005, 08:17:43 am
Quote
Originally posted by Grug
Battlefield 1 ran like crap on my computer, which ran HL2 fairly well.


The funny thing is that it was the other way around with me.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: aldo_14 on April 29, 2005, 11:56:25 am
Quote
Originally posted by vyper
Holy **** I just watched the dynamic range lighting video... I have never seen something come that close to reality "in-game". I want a new card, a new processor and THAT BUILD OF SOURCE! :D

Btw red, I've got an AMD and SP2 and I've never had problems like that with HL2.


I think I had the odd CTD with HL2.  Not sure if it was the AMD crash or the nVidia crash, or the sound bug, or something else, but twas a pain in the arse.

Of course, I tried updating Steam... now it's not only started running at startup by default (despite me explictly telling it not to when I installed it), but also attemtping to update and continuously freezing.

****ing Steam.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Fineus on April 29, 2005, 12:15:54 pm
Grug, what settings were you using with BF1? Almost everyone found that the audio was the main problem with the game, dropping it to medium quality with only 32 channels generally showed a massive improvement in performance... the graphics should all be kept at top notch for any machine that can run HL2 OK.

Also, I agree with your analysis that HL2s rather foggy story rather spoils things. HL places you perfectly in Gordons shoes, showing you who you are. Stepping into the reality of the game is very simple indeed.

HL2 on the other hand chucks you into a totally unknown situation where reality as we know it is changed, with Nazi like states controlled by Breen and an unknown alien over him... the Combine being the dirty boys. You have to make a lot of assumptions and (I think) miss key points when you first play through the game because you're to busy trying to work out what the heck is going on. It's very poor story telling.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: aldo_14 on April 29, 2005, 12:36:19 pm
I can't help but wonder if the HL2 storyline was vague because they were a bit stuck for ideas...... I mean, on the base level of what you see, it's bog-standard (cliche-ed) totalitarian government+resulting rebellion set in a post-apocalyptic future.

Arguably, the best settings do leave more questions than answers; but IMO there's a certain level of information you need to put a setting in context and enjoy playing in it.  I think HL2s ambiguity - deliberate or not - means that you never get into it, you're never allowed to know enough to want to win.

For example... I loved Highway 17; really atmospheric.  But at the same time, it begin to grate and become shallow.  It was more or less the same trick - a deserted house with some debris inside - repeated over and over again.  Without a storyline to add some form of emotion to it, it just became more and more like a bog-standard game; your imagination can only take you so far before your brain kicks in and asks inevitable questions.

It's not as if it would be unrealistic to have some answers, either.  Fair enough is the point that it wouldn't be massively realistic to have every character you meet provide a running history of the last ## years (especially as 'you' are expected to have experienced them as well).  But at the same time there's a tonne of detrius around that can be used to provide said context; think of all the newspapers lying around in H17 for example; brilliant opportunity to add information, and more so to do at a good point in the game.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Fineus on April 29, 2005, 12:51:01 pm
To be fair I think the newspapers would be something that could be put to good use, but not for providing the real history (before I go further, I know you're only using it as an example). Why? They'd have to have been printed some time during the occupation of the Combine (lets face it, few places have really old newspapers just blowing about). That being the case, they'd be laced with disinformation by the Combine / Breen. However with the right disinformation you could point the player in the direction of what's really going on. Same for other aspects of the game (sure, not all the charachters you meet in game would provide a back history, but a couple of them could hold quite a conversation with you while you're doing something else). As an example, we pick up a lot about Ravenholm from the dialogue the priest gives us. Why not provide something similar frm Alyx when you reach the scientists teleportation chamber at the early stage of the game?

A lot of wasted oppertunities I feel. Hopefully Valve haven't been seduced by the idea that stories can be told through expansion packs. HL managed to avoid that totally - the addons only deepening the already well explained experience.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Flipside on April 29, 2005, 01:05:21 pm
Problem is, I used to play text adventures, and they had really hard puzzles in them that could take you ages to solve and took severe brain power on occasions. As graphics have improved, games are becoming more focussed on 'oooh look at the pretty alien' than actual problem solving. Even RPG's have to base their puzzles around the fact that the game-playing audience does not have the patience to solve those really complex puzzles you used to find in Zork or even The Hobbit.

It's a pity really, there was a real sense of achievement in getting past those, and games used to last for months. But I find even myself getting bored with games very quickly these days, because rather than create hard puzzles, they just add more stuff to shoot when the game needs to be harder. You end up with Homeworld 2 syndrome, where the game simply throws an ever increasing amount of enemies at you, depending on how well you are doing.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: redmenace on April 29, 2005, 01:07:29 pm
they said the unhandled exceptions were related to SP2.

As per the other problems, I am not sure why al the sudden things have gotten messed up.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: aldo_14 on April 29, 2005, 01:21:12 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kalfireth
To be fair I think the newspapers would be something that could be put to good use, but not for providing the real history (before I go further, I know you're only using it as an example). Why? They'd have to have been printed some time during the occupation of the Combine (lets face it, few places have really old newspapers just blowing about). That being the case, they'd be laced with disinformation by the Combine / Breen. However with the right disinformation you could point the player in the direction of what's really going on. Same for other aspects of the game (sure, not all the charachters you meet in game would provide a back history, but a couple of them could hold quite a conversation with you while you're doing something else). As an example, we pick up a lot about Ravenholm from the dialogue the priest gives us. Why not provide something similar frm Alyx when you reach the scientists teleportation chamber at the early stage of the game?

A lot of wasted oppertunities I feel. Hopefully Valve haven't been seduced by the idea that stories can be told through expansion packs. HL managed to avoid that totally - the addons only deepening the already well explained experience.


Well, with the newspapers I was thinking more of the pre-occupation period; what happened up to the 7 hour war, like with all the clippings seen on Dr. thingies lab.

Albeit... I don't really remember Ravenholm being too well explained, in terms of who lived there originally and why or what happened when it was headcrab-shelled.

I think one of the strengths of HL2 should have been that you learned the story and background at the same rate as the character you play... the problem is that as a player you have a lot less resources to use for that than you would under real circumstances; the game assumes your reactions and robs you of any ability to actively question, for example.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Grug on April 29, 2005, 01:49:12 pm
I agree with near all the points presented. I thought I was one among few who dislike HL2's story.

For example, I was highly appauled at Gamespy's(?) Half-Life2 vs Halo2 when they rated HL2's story better than Halo2. I was screaming in my head "What goddamn story!?".

Valve seem to be concentrating on character development. Usually however there is a plot as well as character development, a fact they seem to have missed.

There is still no evidence to what the hell the GMan is about. With assumptions, the most I concluded was that he's running some type of interdimensional mercenary business. One would of thought the Gman would of been explained after HL1. But instead they provided many more questions and a handful of answers.

As for puzzles. I don't mind the odd simple puzzle. But I kind of disliked the old hard ones. They were more frustrating than entertaining IMO. Maybe I'm just stupid though. :p I do believe its possible to re-integrate them back into todays games. But care needs to be taken to avoid frustration from exceedingly difficult puzzles. There are some tricky puzzles in KOTR2 that perplexed me for a while. Here I am at 2am sitting on my bed with a calculator, trying to work out some damned maths puzzle.

I think more dynamic and inventive puzzles would be more successfull, rather than the old school 'learn quantum physics 101'. Though I do agree, they have a place in games. Maybe with optional sidequests and the like which unlock extra goodies or something.

But yeah. When math quizzes pop up for someone who hasn't touched a calculator in years, curses are bound to slip the toungue. :p
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: redmenace on August 12, 2005, 02:36:30 am
They through us a bone...
http://media.pc.gamespy.com/media/740/740555/vids_1.html
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Blaise Russel on August 12, 2005, 03:34:41 am
Huh?

I liked HL2's story and I liked the ambiguity. It was fun, working out what had happened since I'd been away, picking up on the clues and fitting it all in with the original Half-life. I'd listen to Breen's management-speak speeches and the mutterings of the civilians and build up a picture of the Administrator's collaborating totalitarian society. I'd prod the Vortigaunts continuously and figure out the role of G-Man and the Nihilanth in this widening conflict. I'd see Ravenholm and its wandering nasties and hear the priest's ramblings and I'd draw up my own history of the district and its transformation into the Old Quarter (homes of dam workers -> Resistance occupies BME -> "we don't go to Ravenholm any more" Resistance/Ravenholm contact? discovery? -> punishment killing? example made of Ravenholm by Combine?).

For me, HL2 managed to strike a balance between "no story" and "story laid out for you." Just enough to provoke question and thought, not enough to stifle it. The story was sketched out, using highlighting and shading to mark its presence, rather than being a straightforward, unsubtle line drawing.

Besides, the story of HL2 is laid out fairly obviously. You are a hero, you kill the bad guys. Technically, its the backstory that has to be filled in.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Fineus on August 12, 2005, 03:59:21 am
As much as "you're the hero, kill the bad guys" seems simple enough, I just didn't get on with the way it was implemented in HL2. I found myself spending an awful lot of the game thinking "alright, I killed these guys. Fine. But why...".

I think I really would have gotten along with it better if there was some kind of filling in that was done at the beginning of the game. Just to let me know that:

"You are Gordon Freeman, these guys have moved in from another dimension and pretty much enslaved humanity. Breen is their human contact."

But being dumped into the situation with no information at all made things more confusing than they did "an interesting enigma to be solved". At least in the original HL you knew why you were doing what you were doing. You caused the disaster and were trying to get out / stop what was happening.


Perhaps it boils down to a matter of taste. I just didn't get on with it.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: CP5670 on August 12, 2005, 04:47:05 am
Looks like a resurrected thread...

Quote

For example, I was highly appauled at Gamespy's(?) Half-Life2 vs Halo2 when they rated HL2's story better than Halo2. I was screaming in my head "What goddamn story!?".


My thoughts exactly when I finished the game.

The lack of any details and vague connection to the missions is what really messed up the story here, since the general backdrop and setting had a lot of potential. The little details are what really make a game story come alive (best example of this was Deus Ex, which had an incredible amount of reading material and lots of minor side plots thrown in) and HL2 was almost devoid of them.

You could figure out what was going on later in the game, but the problem was that it didn't seem to matter, since the story had little effect on what you were doing anyway until the last couple of missions. For large parts of the game, you had no real goals in sight and were basically just running through random places that all looked similar. The fact that your character never uttered a word in the entire game didn't help either. It almost seemed like Valve first made the maps and then tacked a story on afterwards, rather than the other way around.

It is possible to make a detailed story that gets players involved but still makes them think about stuff (FS2 is probably the best example), but I didn't think HL2's plot was anything like that.

Math puzzles in games? Now that's something I have not seen before, although I wouldn't mind it at all... :D
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Ransom on August 12, 2005, 04:49:12 am
I liked HL2's backstory, with the whole 'work it out for yourself' thing going on. What I didn't like was the way the actual plot was near nonexistant.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Fineus on August 12, 2005, 05:34:09 am
I think that's where everyone falls into two camps. Those who like the "work it out for yourself" approach, and those who don't.

Personally though, I don't think HL was ever about mysteries as such. So having to sit there trying to piece together things and coming to conclusions that turned out to be wrong was no fun for me. I prefer knowing why I'm doing what I'm doing - and as fun as the game is to play - why I'm spending my time playing through it.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: redmenace on August 12, 2005, 05:46:43 am
I did want to create a new thread for this. I have a personal philosophy, why create a new one when there is another perfectly good one out there.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: deep_eyes on August 12, 2005, 09:36:07 am
Quote
Originally posted by Kalfireth
As much as "you're the hero, kill the bad guys" seems simple enough, I just didn't get on with the way it was implemented in HL2. I found myself spending an awful lot of the game thinking "alright, I killed these guys. Fine. But why...".

I think I really would have gotten along with it better if there was some kind of filling in that was done at the beginning of the game. Just to let me know that:

"You are Gordon Freeman, these guys have moved in from another dimension and pretty much enslaved humanity. Breen is their human contact."

But being dumped into the situation with no information at all made things more confusing than they did "an interesting enigma to be solved". At least in the original HL you knew why you were doing what you were doing. You caused the disaster and were trying to get out / stop what was happening.


Perhaps it boils down to a matter of taste. I just didn't get on with it.


I think that was the whole idea for HL2. Your just suddenly thrust into this future where humanity is controlled, not knowing why or what your suppose to do or your purpose is, the only SURE THING YOU KNOW is that your actions in Blackmesa PUT THESE EVENTS INTO PLAY WHICH IS NOW REALITY, IE: the Combine on Earth, is YOUR FAULT. forget the fact that your an MIT graduate... it has no relevance. The only thing you know is that your actions (good or bad or unintentional), and you being who you are, the one "free-man" motivated the civilians to revolt against the combine. Its kinda a passive story IMO because no one really revolted until your presense and the hell we raise in Nova Prospekt.

BUt think about it, at the end, (without revealing any plot or story), you are left with questions like, "ok so why did i do this? what the hell was my purpose?" as a human player and as in the shoes of Freeman. if this was for real, you would ask yourself the same questions.

The why is so much more.... that is why people enjoyed HL2 in terms of story. albeit Halo 1 had the better story of both parts of example, hell i even read the backstory novels, however, halo 2 for example was crammed with story to get to the points they wanted to get to, IMO not a good idea, but halo 2 to a degree was still a decent game with a decent story to follow. it got watered down a littlebit but it was still good.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: aldo_14 on August 12, 2005, 10:08:40 am
Quote
Originally posted by deep_eyes


I think that was the whole idea for HL2. Your just suddenly thrust into this future where humanity is controlled, not knowing why or what your suppose to do or your purpose is, the only SURE THING YOU KNOW is that your actions in Blackmesa PUT THESE EVENTS INTO PLAY WHICH IS NOW REALITY, IE: the Combine on Earth, is YOUR FAULT.

 forget the fact that your an MIT graduate... it has no relevance. The only thing you know is that your actions (good or bad or unintentional), and you being who you are, the one "free-man" motivated the civilians to revolt against the combine. Its kinda a passive story IMO because no one really revolted until your presense and the hell we raise in Nova Prospekt.

BUt think about it, at the end, (without revealing any plot or story), you are left with questions like, "ok so why did i do this? what the hell was my purpose?" as a human player and as in the shoes of Freeman. if this was for real, you would ask yourself the same questions.


If it was for real, you'd be able to actually ask those (and other) questions.  And you would ask questions, even at the risk of looking an arse doing so.  

Not only do we not have that ability in HL2, the methods of gaining incidental information (reading the old newspapers from Highway 17, for example) are not available to us.  You just follow a blind, linear path without the reasons for it being explained in any way; it's a glorified corridor shooter.

Highway 17 is my favourite level.  But it doesn't actually add anything to the story; there's no explanation of the world or similar.  So it becomes just an excercise in methodically moving through the eye-candy shooting cloned enemy #10220.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Turnsky on August 13, 2005, 12:47:25 am
look in vance's lab at black mesa east, it has some semblence of events of what transpired during your absence, also, look at the photo of him and alyx as a child (she looks, what?..7-10 in the photo?) and compare her to how old she looks now.. there's your timeframe.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: aldo_14 on August 13, 2005, 09:09:24 am
Quote
Originally posted by Turnsky
look in vance's lab at black mesa east, it has some semblence of events of what transpired during your absence, also, look at the photo of him and alyx as a child (she looks, what?..7-10 in the photo?) and compare her to how old she looks now.. there's your timeframe.


That illustrates my point, actually; take the newspaper cutout of the 7 day war - what can you actually read off of it?  I can't test the highest resolution on my machine, but AFAIK the most you can read is the headline and subheading.

Compare that to if it was real, and you'd be able to read that whole article.  One analogy i can think of is Deus Ex if you removed the datacubes from it.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Turnsky on August 13, 2005, 09:33:12 am
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14


That illustrates my point, actually; take the newspaper cutout of the 7 day war - what can you actually read off of it?  I can't test the highest resolution on my machine, but AFAIK the most you can read is the headline and subheading.

Compare that to if it was real, and you'd be able to read that whole article.  One analogy i can think of is Deus Ex if you removed the datacubes from it.


precisely, just headlines, and some fuzzy textures..

something like datacubes, or even old news reports, even people talking about the past would do.. the fact is, you don't know much beyond Combine invading, taking over in 7 hours, Breen orchestrating human surrender, becoming administrator of the cities, all in the space of what?.. 15+ years? (going by the photo and Alyx's current age)

that's pretty vague, really.

all HL2 boiled down to was "shoot the bad guys, shoot this, shoot that, shoot something else...then if you feel like it, hit a headcrab with a flying cinderblock"
i mean, even Doom 3 was punctuated by nice little story tidbits by way of some cutscenes, character interactions, and the oh so good to read emails on your PDA.

personally, i think Valve Copped out by this "walk in gordon's shoes" bullcrap, all they did was slack off on the story, it may have supposedly been the pinnacle of gameplay (hah!) but, as illustrated before, it's just another generic Shooter, like any other out there..  kinda like Pariah, supposedly had a cracker of a storyline.. i'm still curious as to where they found it.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: vyper on August 13, 2005, 09:36:24 am
A huge portion of the story telling in-game maps were dropped after the Source leak. In effect, Valve rather vindictively punished the HL community for playing the leaked version by removing some crucial plot content.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: aldo_14 on August 13, 2005, 09:44:13 am
Apparently a flashback cutscene explaining a lot of what happened post HL1 was cut (it was to be shown at Vances lab).  From what I can tell, there's more of the story in the 'making of' book than in the bloody game.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: vyper on August 13, 2005, 09:59:30 am
That does explain the rediculously short amount of time you spend in Eli's lab in the final release. It felt such a wasted effort - you fought through all the canals, the waterways, the attack helicopter, for what? The gravity gun? Seeing a few Vorts with chefs hats on?
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Tieowbeijas on August 13, 2005, 10:08:45 am
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
Apparently a flashback cutscene explaining a lot of what happened post HL1 was cut (it was to be shown at Vances lab).  From what I can tell, there's more of the story in the 'making of' book than in the bloody game.


That is true, I've got the book and it contains tons of information on what happened before HL2, and some about what happens during the game.
For example, there were supposed to be a somewhat more substantial introduction sequence, where you'd get to see some outdoor area that change, from nice green to a wasteland, until you are put on the train, with a monolouge of the G-Man playing at the same time.
And then there's the slideshow sequence that would have happened in Eli's lab, where'd you'd get to know about the combine invasion.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Fineus on August 13, 2005, 10:10:57 am
Is that really so? I mean... it would explain a lot if information was cut out of the final release. But surely Valve are shooting themselves in the foot by removing crucial information before shipping..

..or maybe they're not. Because we all bought it anyway.

Even so, it's what makes HL2 less than a complete game for me. I realise it might be quite extreme of me to say so but it does feel something like a tech demo at times. There's a story there - and gameplay - but it only hints at the potential it could have had.

Doom 3? Far Cry? Halo? They delivered on that promise.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Tieowbeijas on August 13, 2005, 10:15:28 am
There were also some large gameplay parts that were cut, there were for example some atmospheric processor that you were to destroy, and you would also get to... "visit" a combine factory.
And the manhacks where first supposed to be controlled through an arcade, were citizens would spend their spare time playing "games" that actually were them controlling the manhacks to hunt down fugutives.

So yes, the story areas of the game feels very thin, but I still like the game.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Corhellion on August 15, 2005, 12:55:22 am
...I'm not going to argue with anyone...

Seeing as how everyone here is all gung ho about Halo (Burn eeeeeet!) and Doom 3...I'm alright with D3 and RoE...they're good games...

I'm all for Half-life...nothing going to change that. And I'm fine with Steam. Seeing as how it's a very simple and effective way of tracking and reporting cheaters/hackers.

Btw, the Aftermath teaser Trailer has been released...and The Lost Coast is going to be released by the 23rd of this month...

This "discussion" reminded me why I left...only a few people have any common sense in how awesome HL2 is...and if you're not a fan of HL2...there's always HL1...

But enough...I'm done...
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Ransom on August 15, 2005, 02:49:20 am
Quote
Originally posted by Corhellion
This "discussion" reminded me why I left...only a few people have any common sense in how awesome HL2 is...and if you're not a fan of HL2...there's always HL1...

Your opinion is not fact.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: aldo_14 on August 15, 2005, 05:45:37 am
Quote
Originally posted by Corhellion
...I'm not going to argue with anyone...

Seeing as how everyone here is all gung ho about Halo (Burn eeeeeet!) and Doom 3...I'm alright with D3 and RoE...they're good games...

I'm all for Half-life...nothing going to change that. And I'm fine with Steam. Seeing as how it's a very simple and effective way of tracking and reporting cheaters/hackers.

Btw, the Aftermath teaser Trailer has been released...and The Lost Coast is going to be released by the 23rd of this month...

This "discussion" reminded me why I left...only a few people have any common sense in how awesome HL2 is...and if you're not a fan of HL2...there's always HL1...

But enough...I'm done...


You left because people had a different opinion to you?

Why did you even join then?
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: CP5670 on August 15, 2005, 10:47:14 am
You left the whole forum because people didn't agree with your assessment of a game?!

...

Sorry, but that is simply retarded. I used to have respect for you (I'm a fellow Lego fan), but you are taking this way too personally unless you work for Valve or something. Besides, everyone here is posting reasons to back their opinions.

I'm not a big fan of D3 or Halo, but they were still much better than HL2, as was HL1 for that matter.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Unknown Target on August 15, 2005, 11:25:16 am
Yea, that is really dumb Corhellion (but welcome back anyway).
HL2 was really sub-par. I won't even go over the ridiculous loading times, that's been done to death. But this expansion pack looks to be basically what a bunch of talented modders could do.
Not only that, but I want to say something about Valve: Everyone hails them as God's gift to gamers, but in reality, what have they done? Half Life and Half Life 2. Everything else is mods and stuff they ripped off of the community and resold. Half Life was only good because it was something new, but if you play it today and compare it to modern games, it's really not that great.
Half Life 2 is basically Half Life 1 with better graphics and a different setting. The gameplay formula and everything is pretty much the same - and like I said before, that's not that great.

Also, Steam is crap. First of all, it does nothing to stop pirates, which was what it was intended for. People pirate the game still, and even worse, people who bought the game cant even play it because some pirate stole their key. On top of that, if Valve goes under or you don't have the internet, you can't play the game. On top of THAT, these so called anti-cheating measures are still topped by a good old PunkBuster.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: CP5670 on August 15, 2005, 11:38:30 am
I agree with almost all of that. All things considered, HL2 is the most overrated game I have played in years, as it just got so many things wrong IMO. HL1 was quite a nice game for its time though. The only thing was that it was released right between two revolutionary games that have become all time classics, Unreal and System Shock 2, and it wasn't really comparable to either of those.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Blaise Russel on August 15, 2005, 11:44:47 am
Quote
Originally posted by Unknown Target
if you play it today and compare it to modern games, it's really not that great.


Well, well. Fancy that.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Omniscaper on August 15, 2005, 11:48:23 am
Doom 3 better than Halflife 2? Thats a good one. LMAO.

Halflife 2, like its predecessor, brought simple FPS's to another level. System shock 1 &2, Deus Ex are of a a different genre to me. What makes HL2 revolutionary is the interaction with the environment and its integration into its gameplay, not to mention a great story. The story unfolded in away that did not make you feel like a rat in a maze. Of course this may not sit well with folks who like the simple "find the key, explore, find exit" formula.

Doom 3 was the tech demo. The " BOO, I scared you!"" got boring after 15 minutes of play time. Doom 3 felt much more linear and they didn't even attempt to hide it, and the gameplay was overly repetitive. The only thing going for it was its technical achievement in lighting.

I'm looking forward to and can't wait for the expansion.

Steam ALLOWS you to play these games without the internet connection (once you have all the game data). Dont get all pissy because it wasn't an easy warez find.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Unknown Target on August 15, 2005, 11:57:08 am
Doom 3 at least had gameplay and a coherent story. Half Life 2's "story" was just a bunch of running around and Valve poking fun at you, going "oo, this is mysterious, you won't understand it, so it makes it deep." Good analogy? The Matrix 2 with less words. What story did Half Life 2 have? All the good story happened BEFORE the game! That's like having the events of Freespace 1 be backstory, and you just play through the portions AFTER it.

Blaise: A lot of people still think Half Life 1 is god amongst games and no game has come to top it. Not true.

Omniscaper: Interaction with the enviroment? It's a freaking physics demo. The only thing original in this game was that you could actually lift heavy objects, rather than just blowing them up. The only original implementation of physics I saw was during the part of the level with the sand wasps, where you had to cross the beach. I did that by lifting up big pieces of board and laying them in front of me, then walking across it.
Everything else was just "OO! Look! You can pick up everything! Not like it matters, because it's just easier to shoot the bad guy #2312312321 in the head!" I hardly, if ever, used the grav gun - your regular weaponry was so much easier.


And the thing that just BUGS me about HL2 was that it could have been SO COOL! I mean, you've got these giant striders that lumber over top of you, shooting, you've got tanks, these massive bug-like drop ships. That would have simply been the COOLEST city fighting in a game EVER. Could you imagine dodging between strider legs, tanks firing off over head, ducking and dodging into every building? No, instead you were forced to walk to point A, kill baddies, go to B, kill baddies, go to C, kill more baddies, go to D, get insignificant plot point and kill more baddies, etc, etc.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Omniscaper on August 15, 2005, 12:12:45 pm
Tough critic. Can you name a game that utilized the physics engine as dynamically as Hl2 at the time of its release? And I dont mean simple ragdoll effects.

I'm not here to convince people its a great game. Those who loved it know what I'm talking about. Though its ending was a cliffhanger esque (LIKE HALO 2), the overall game experience was like a high budget scifi movie. It exceeded my expectations.  

BTW I loved War of the Worlds because of Halflife 2  LOL :)
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Ransom on August 15, 2005, 12:14:34 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Omniscaper
...not to mention a great story. The story unfolded in away that did not make you feel like a rat in a maze. Of course this may not sit well with folks who like the simple "find the key, explore, find exit" formula.

As I've said before, all the good story is just backstory. Now, I like the backstory and the way they didn't just lay it all out for you. The problem is that all the wonderful clues and such Valve left behind that everyone raves about don't help move along the main story, they just tell you about things that happened before the game started. All that happens in the actual plot is a bunch of cliched character development, some buildings and things exploding and Dr. Breen going 'Ho ho ho I'm ever so evil'.

Doom 3, I agree, was basically just a tech demo, but at least it wasn't as exceedingly pretentious as HL2 is.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: aldo_14 on August 15, 2005, 12:18:29 pm
To be honest.... I didn't find the physics in HL2 all that special.   I can't actually remember any truly interesting physics based gameplay offhand (excluding the dull picking up of blocks to balance stuff).  The ability to fire barrels & gas cans about was kind of neat, but ultimately it was simply easier to use a gun.

I think the one time I tried to play about with the physics was in a little house in Highway 17, where I blocked all the doors (with hindsight) off to try and stop me being attacked.  Although I don't think it made any difference; the AI just sort of loitered outside waiting.

Ultimately I just felt the game flattered to deceive.  There were bits where I thought 'I could have done this in exactly the way the developer intended and it'd have been pretty cool', but that's not exactly a good thing.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Unknown Target on August 15, 2005, 12:32:26 pm
What WAS so great about HL2's physics? Name me one part in the game that couldn't have been done with any other game and some careful scripting. Wow, HL2 had parts where you balanced bricks to lift something so you coould walk across, and other games didn't. Wonder why.

By the way, when you were supposed to balance those bricks? I just stacked them and jumped on top of them, rather than doing all that work.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Omniscaper on August 15, 2005, 12:49:11 pm
Why are you so fired up on bashing HL2? Are you trying to get affirmation for your disappointment. Chill out dude, you've already got 5 pages of *****ing and moaning.

Word of advice, next time, a new game comes out like FEAR, dont let the marketing hype get to your head.

This is thread about the HL2: Aftermath expansion,not "Why does Hl2 suck" You had a bad exerience with it, great. Sucks for you.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Unknown Target on August 15, 2005, 12:50:30 pm
Um...what? That was a pretty personal attack on a pretty un-confrontational post. Methinks you're the one who should chill out.

And anyway, HL2 was all about the hype, that's what made it such a huge dissappointment. If it wasn't hyped so much, I don't think people would be as pissed about it as we all are.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Blaise Russel on August 15, 2005, 01:18:44 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Unknown Target
Blaise: A lot of people still think Half Life 1 is god amongst games and no game has come to top it. Not true.


That wasn't my point. My contention was that you thought HL1 should somehow 'stand up' to modern games, as though a comparison between a game released today and one released - what? seven years ago? - was a fair and valid one to make. Even more so considering that FPS games have traditionally been centred around game engines and graphics, which improve greatly with time.

It's unfair to take an attribute based in a wider examination of games across time and hold it against a game in a specific, individual context. It'd be like saying because a 1920s Model T is a terrible car next to any modern-day vehicle, it was a terrible car in the 1920s and people would say "I'm not driving that, that's a pile of junk!"
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Unknown Target on August 15, 2005, 01:23:46 pm
You're missing the main point of that entire post, which was this: Half Life 1 can't stand up to today's modern games, so it doesn't make sense why Half Life 2 should either. Why? Because like I said, Half Life 2 is simply Half Life 1 with prettier graphics and a different setting. Hell, even almost all the weapons are the same.

But to reply directly to your post - I wasn't saying that HL1 should somehow stand up to modern games, my point was that people think it does, and it's dumb to think that way. I'm not saying specifically you, but I've heard that argument before.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Ulala on August 15, 2005, 01:28:43 pm
You're pissed off because you got hyped up? Don't get hyped up. You're actually pissed off because you didn't like the gameplay? Don't play the game.

If it wasn't hyped up as much people wouldn't be pissed? What company isn't going to hype the crap outta their game, and get magazines, previewers, and gamers hyped up about their game? It's marketing, and Valve did a great job of it. And they don't give a crap if people are pissed as long as their marketing ploy worked and their product sold. And they'll do it again, with their next product, and their next, and next....

Sometimes there's revolutionaries (HL1, C&C, etc) and sometimes there's letdowns (Tiberian Sun, WarCraft 3, etc)... but what a revolution is and what a letdown is is solely based on opinion and personal preference.
[soapbox] We here at HLP have different opinions and different preferences, even when it comes to something like the Freespace series. But that's part of what makes this community great, and I have a dream, and insert some more motivational words of wisdom here to get you all to stop pissing at each other about some different opinions over something as trivial as a computer game. [/soapbox]

Personally, HL2 seemed pretty cool, but I never got very far through it. The load times were a lil' long (and I have a fairly high end machine), and school was going nuts at the time, so I lost time and interest. Haven't really desired to go back.. maybe someday, maybe not. But I bought the game, threw away the receipt, opened it, and installed it, so I deserve to keep it, no matter how crappy Valve or whatever company I bought whatever game from made it. They made it, advertised it, sold it, and I bought it... end of story, sometimes an unfortunate ending, sometimes not.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Unknown Target on August 15, 2005, 01:42:48 pm
I'm angry because the game was crap, especially compared to what it should have or could have been. I also got the game as a gift (note: I didn't buy it), so I ended up playing through it, and I got tired of it about halfway through, so I figured I'd invested the first half, don't have any other games to play, so I just went ahead and finished it.


But there were so many things that should have been...like that blue water tentacle monster in one of the screenshots - that just looked so cool, but in the end, it just wasn't there.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Ulala on August 15, 2005, 01:51:28 pm
Bummer. *shrugs* It happens. :doubt:
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: CP5670 on August 15, 2005, 03:10:20 pm
I thought that HL2's main shortcoming wasn't so much the story (Far Cry's story was just as thin but it was a way better game), but the mind numbingly linear and sparsely detailed level design. The linearity was especially annoying; there was always exactly one path you could take to proceed from an area, which tends to give levels a sort of artificial feeling (that rubble has to fall in such a way that you can conveniently use it as a ramp to get over a wall :D).

Don't know why anyone would get all mad over this though. It's just a game and there are lots of other games out there. It was extremely overrated, sure, but at least it was similar to the original. Anyway, I think the biggest letdown of recent times was not HL2 at all but Deus Ex Invisible War, despite still being a fairly good game.

As for lifting objects and using them to get places, you could also do that in Deus Ex, which came out five years ago. The physics was the one nice thing about this game though, if only because it's very easy to get Havok to screw up, so you can have some fun. :D

On a side note, did anyone else notice how you could move around three times as fast as usual by bunny hopping in HL2? I basicaly only hopped through the entire game and never ran normally. :D

Quote
Dont get all pissy because it wasn't an easy warez find.


um, it was.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: SadisticSid on August 15, 2005, 04:42:43 pm
A year ago the battle lines were drawn up between the Halo 2 and Half Life 2 camps. For me, Halo 2 won because of its immersive storyline. I felt as if I was in the middle of a situation, rather than having a situation cobbled up around my presence. Despite what I thought was an amazing engine, HL2 was bland and uninspired, trying (and failing) to add extra dimensions to the events of the first game and only ending up with a cheezy sci-fi plot that took itself far too seriously. Both games did not live up to their predecessors, but Halo 2 did a significantly better job of trying.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Flipside on August 15, 2005, 05:01:17 pm
Heh, I got bored with the FPS genre a year or two ago, I played about 3 hours of HL2 and never played any more, not because it was a bad game, but simply because it was a FPS, which is, apart from a few exceptions, Wolfentein with pretty graphics. Almost nothing has changed about them since then, in fact, Wolfenstein had more bonuses, more levels and more creatures than many of the games that it has spawned.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Corhellion on August 15, 2005, 05:37:07 pm
To everyone who said I left because you guys bashed a game that I liked: **** you...I left cause a bunch of you are ****ing stupid...And you just proved my point...And I left way before this thread even started...

Hell, Warpstorm has more brains then everyone in the forum combined...

I'm gone...
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Martinus on August 15, 2005, 05:43:22 pm
[color=66ff00]Dude if HLP is so beneath you why even bother saying you're going?

Sigh.
[/color]
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Corhellion on August 15, 2005, 05:45:25 pm
I only said it to properly address what the people thought I left for...

And I still come here for the mods and FS2 goodies...everything else is...well...different now...

*shrugs*

Sorry for being all pissy...bored...need school back...
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Flipside on August 15, 2005, 05:45:44 pm
More importantly, if he already left, how can he place a post in HLP telling us that he left before the thread he was posting in had even started....

:nervous:
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Corhellion on August 15, 2005, 05:47:17 pm
O_o

...whoa...that made sense...somewhat...

o_O

...maybe I'll stick around a bit more...
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: aldo_14 on August 15, 2005, 05:49:38 pm
Whoa....cosmic maaaaaaaaaaaan

I think people were a bit nasty in response to Corhellions posted reasons for leaving.  On the other hand, it's still a bit of a stupid reason for leaving.... I'd dare you to find a single publicly acessible 'generic' forum on the net that doesn't have someone you don't agree with or like.

(well, excluding the ultra nutcase sites - like racist ultra-rights ones -  that by implication exclude anyone of normal persuasion)
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: CP5670 on August 15, 2005, 06:23:17 pm
Maybe I was harsh there, but that comment about common sense was pure flamebait, even if that wasn't your intention. If I want to read things like that, I go to the Anandtech video forum. I can't comment on the arguments on this topic in the past as I was not present for most of them, but this particular thread was a pretty decent discussion (much less heated than the numerous political threads) until that post.

If you left for some other reason, then you really should reword that original post, since it seems to imply that you have something personal against everyone who doesn't like a game that you like.

[q]More importantly, if he already left, how can he place a post in HLP telling us that he left before the thread he was posting in had even started....
[/q]

:D
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: YodaSean on August 15, 2005, 08:02:08 pm
When they made Half Life 1, was there a sequel planned then?  Because its always seemed like me that the g-man was just there to add some fun to the first game.  Then sort of got used in the second to make the story seem deeper since there was a nice conspiracy element.

He's like the stereotypical angry, cold mercenary character in most anime things.  They act really deep and answer everything in the form of a question to make it look like there is more to the story than there really is.  Like Auron in Final Fantasy or Kratos in Tales of Symphonia. :)
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Krackers87 on August 15, 2005, 10:54:55 pm
W00t, i cant wait forthis to come out so i can NOT buy it, and urinate on any HL2 :: AM cutouts
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: pyro-manic on August 16, 2005, 03:36:42 pm
I dunno whether I'll get it or not, to be honest. If it's £25 (like most expansions seem to be these days :doubt: ) then I'll wait 'til it's in a bargain bin somewhere. If it's free via Steam (hah, I can dream can't I?) then I'll get it, as I have Steam anyway. I'm not paying to download it, though - that's far too risky for my liking...

Ultimately it comes down to reviews - if it's good, I might, if it's crap, I won't.
Title: Half-Life 2: Aftermath
Post by: Martinus on August 16, 2005, 03:59:25 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Corhellion
...maybe I'll stick around a bit more...

[color=66ff00]Good, there's no point in dissapearing because a few people are bugging you. :yes:

BTW I fully endorse the use of the o_0 smiley. It says so much that the other's can't. ;)
[/color]