Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The FRED Workshop => Topic started by: Akalabeth Angel on April 18, 2005, 05:13:24 pm
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I changed a weapon on a small ship to a AAAf beam, and it worked the first few times I test the mission but now it just fires the same ol plink gun that it comes with standard even though it still shows AAAf in fred. What gives?
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Possible Issues.
1.) Testing wrong version of mission. Absurd? Possibly, but perhaps you accidently saved the newer version to the wrong location? If so, just overwrite the old one with it.
2.) Again, possibly absurd, but ensure you're looking at the right turret. I wouldn't be surprised if you're looking at the wrong side of the ship.
3.) Your CPU has turned on you. I suspect rabies.
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Make sure the ship can mount the gun too. That might cause problems.
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Uh, I've only got one version of the mission plus the accompanying back up so it shouldn't be a problem.
The ship only has one turret, so I'm pretty sure its the right one :)
As for the ship mounting the gun, well it worked the first time, I'm not sure why it shouldn't work the second.
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I slapped a Flak Cannon and a Kayser in place of the Subach HL-7 on the turret, and NEITHER of those worked either. I don't know wtf is wrong with it. Erg
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FRED vanilla or FRED_Open?
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vanilla
And the ship in question is an Elysium transport.
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yeah, it's probably vanilla playing tricks on you.
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Try Goober's most recent build of FRED2_Open.
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Computer not good enough for Open.
And I'm not going to upgrade.
But has anyone else had this problem?
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nope.
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I don't know how secure you feel with FS missions, but you may try opening the mission in question in Notepad and make sure that the turret in question does, in fact, have the weapon changed. Open the mission with notepad, find the entry for the Elysium in question, check the turret, and make sure it has "+Primary Banks: ( "AAAf" )" or whatever after the turret subsystem declaration. If it does, then it's FS that's acting up. If not, it's FRED. But that should be the first thing you should check, just to make sure you do, in fact, have it in there correct.
Also, some other general things:
- I know you say you've only got one copy of the mission, but make absolutely sure that you don't have another copy lying around in root that could be causing it to not work properly. You wouldn't believe how much time I've wasted trying to debug something because of this or similar errors.
- Assuming you're running FSO, you're NOT using -mod, right? There's a possibility that there is a weapons table override in a -mod directory that's taking the AAAf away, and that said table is causing the turret to default to its standard weapon. Missions from below the current Mod level are displayed as well as those in a Mod directory, so you may be running with that on and not even realize it.
- For that matter, make sure you don't have any weapon.tbl entries lying around in general. Though if FRED sees it, that's not likely to be the case.
Originally posted by Cobra
nope.
Generally not helpful.
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Hmmn, it says AAAf in the wordpad too. I think I'm just going to scrap it from my mission anyway as it wasn't all that critical.
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Yeah I didn't think it was in FRED. You're running this through retail FS2?
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Yup, retail FS2. Though, it's interesting to note I changed the elysiums to Isis transports, and then the AAAf worked fine on those. Who knows.
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Originally posted by StratComm
Generally not helpful.
:nervous:
if goob replied to this thread, he'd probably say it's a vanilla problem that was fixed in SCP...
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But if Goob said that, he'd be informing us of a fix and explaining why it doesn't work. Much different than saying "nope".
Akalabeth Angel, have you made any table modifications at all? Or are you running with the stock tables? Because this really sounds like a table glitch more than anything else.
So if changing them works, (and this is truly random) do they work if you change them back to Elysiums?
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Well if no one else has had the problem, how could it be fixed in FS Open? Someone needs to know about it before they can fix it. Or are the SCP coders inspired through some divine force to fix the malevolent unseen forces known as bugs who dwell amongst the code waiting to pounce on some hapless FREDer?
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Originally posted by StratComm
But if Goob said that, he'd be informing us of a fix and explaining why it doesn't work. Much different than saying "nope".
Akalabeth Angel, have you made any table modifications at all? Or are you running with the stock tables? Because this really sounds like a table glitch more than anything else.
So if changing them works, (and this is truly random) do they work if you change them back to Elysiums?
Yeah I'm using Table mods. Weapon table has I think two new entries, the ship table has quite a few more and the entire thing has been re-arranged alphabetically and by class. Changing them back to Elysiums causes them to be pieces of crap again. So maybe its a problem with the Elysium itself, I dunno.
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Does it still have the problem if you modify the ship in ships.tbl, or use the newest builds available (Goober or mine)? There was some code I modified that looked like it was always using the ship class's turret info rather than the specific ship in the mission.
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Uh, I dunno. I don't really want all Elysiums to be totting AAAfs, just these ones in particular. :) I'll maybe check it out sometime and see what happens, but as for the tbl I never modified the Elysium entry. Save perhaps the fluff text.
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Originally posted by Akalabeth Angel
Uh, I dunno. I don't really want all Elysiums to be totting AAAfs, just these ones in particular. :)
Aha... this is the likely problem. For some reason, Freespace likes to force all ships of the same class to have identical subsystem attributes. This includes weapon loadout. So if you have multiple Elysiums in the mission, they're probably all using the weapon loadout in the table.
This has been reported before*, but AFAIK nobody's ever been able to figure out what's going on.
*See this thread (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,12483.0.html), starting from the second post.
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Well, I had four Elysiums. Two with AAAfs and two with standard Subachs . . . come to think of it, the AAAfs might have stopped working when I added the second batch of standard Ellies.
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Originally posted by WMCoolmon
There was some code I modified that looked like it was always using the ship class's turret info rather than the specific ship in the mission.
By modified I mean fixed, as near as I could tell.
Just have to pin down the slow-fire bug...
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I found this in the code...
// fix up references into paths for this ship's model to point to a ship_subsys entry instead
// of a submodel index. [b]The ship_subsys entry should be the same for *all* instances of the
// same ship.[/b]Ship.cpp, line 7180. It may have some bearing on this. If it's talking about the same problem, then at least it shows that it was intentional.
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Is it possible to add an
$Allowed PBanks: ("gun")
$Allowed SBanks: ("missile")
entry into place for the individual turrets similar to the way the fighters and bombers' primary and secondary weapon entries are handled as a workaround? Just wondering if the turrets may be able to handle loadouts if given the optional fields.
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it depends on the loadout. :)
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Originally posted by Akalabeth Angel
Well, I had four Elysiums. Two with AAAfs and two with standard Subachs . . . come to think of it, the AAAfs might have stopped working when I added the second batch of standard Ellies.
We had this problem in GTI as well. To fix it, I simply made two different classes of the ship: one with one set of weapons, the other with another.
It might seem a little much, but it seemed to work with us.
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I just changed 'em to Isis transports instead. Two guns are better than one!
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Originally posted by Hellbender
entry into place for the individual turrets similar to the way the fighters and bombers' primary and secondary weapon entries are handled as a workaround? Just wondering if the turrets may be able to handle loadouts if given the optional fields.
No. This won't work because it doesn't address the underlying issue of subsystems.
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Ugh.
Yeah, IIRC that was what turrets weren't using, and were instead using model_subsystem values.
However if ship_subsys is like that, you'd think that damage to subsystems would end up being applied to all ships of that type. Meaning that there might be a separate array of somethings to keep track of subsystem damage. uggghh....
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did you make the AAAf cannon able to be used by that ship/player in the tables? That's also a debug thing. It will auto adjust sometimes. It does that to me when it doesn't recognize a ship, and it instantly becomes a Ulysees.
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Uh, no, not I know of. I don't want the player totting AAAf cannons around, heck I don't even want 'im using Prometheus S and Tornados so no, he definately won't be getting any beam weapons :)
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Originally posted by Goober5000
No. This won't work because it doesn't address the underlying issue of subsystems.
Nevermind that what you're addressing with the allowed banks is just loadout enforcement for the loadout screen in-game, not for the mission designer or the craft itself. If you really want to have a fighter armed with Shivan Super Lasers, then you can if you set it in FRED.
So basically a mission overrides the table files for that mission, rather than creating ship-specific alterations? That'd explain why the last ship of a class placed in to a mission will always be the one that gets the correct weapons on its subsystems wouldn't it. It should be fixed in principle, but I think that if it's done that way intentionally there's probably a good reason for it. Never mind that it doesn't help any here because the bug applies to something in retail.