Hard Light Productions Forums

Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ace on April 22, 2005, 11:03:21 pm

Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Ace on April 22, 2005, 11:03:21 pm
WOW :D

Tholians, and a new (much better :p ) title, and wow :)

Definately a lot of bang for your buck in this episode.
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Carl on April 22, 2005, 11:28:25 pm
*shoots UPN for showing Nationals game instead*
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Trivial Psychic on April 22, 2005, 11:32:53 pm
Did y'all catch the TOS tie-in with that Constitution class ship?  Do you recognize which ship that is?
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Mongoose on April 22, 2005, 11:42:48 pm
Yup. :nod: Seeing that Constitution-class start up was certainly a special moment.  This is definitely up there with my top two or three favorite Enterprise episodes...in fact, I think it's one of my favorites of every Trek series.  From the superb way the cast handled their alter egos, to the detail in re-creating the bridge (right down to that annoying beeping :p), to the shots of that Tholian, this episode was truly amazing. :D
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Ace on April 23, 2005, 12:17:21 am
Quote
Originally posted by Trivial Psychic
Did y'all catch the TOS tie-in with that Constitution class ship?  Do you recognize which ship that is?


The Defiant, which vanished in 'The Tholian Web.' What is nice about this episode is that it explains why there was an anomaly, and a distress signal for the Defiant to check out to begin with.

Of course, I'm assuming that the original author believed that the actual cause of the distress signal was the anomaly driving crazy the crew of some generic race's ship.

I'm now even more pissed about the show being cancelled now. Because this whole season has been pure gold. :(
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Annorax on April 23, 2005, 03:33:09 am
:(

Someone put it up on bittorrent. NOW!
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: vyper on April 23, 2005, 09:05:17 am
Thou shalt not mention such things on HLP... thou cretin.... *coughs badly*niteshdw * cough*
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Ghost on April 23, 2005, 10:00:20 am
Of course we 'caught' the tie in... It was the whole premise for the episode. Now I have to go watch that TOS episode again, though... It's been ages since I've seen any of them.
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Ashrak on April 23, 2005, 10:25:58 am
all i can say is this:



I LOVE THAT INTRO !!!! KEEP IT!!!!


and the web is sweet^3 :D
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Ashrak on April 23, 2005, 10:33:19 am
Retarded ****tards canned ent they canned crusade god damnit ... go eat **** you overpayed imbecilles
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Hunter on April 23, 2005, 10:43:12 am
OMG, that episode made me laugh/cry with fangasms ;)
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Dough with Fish on April 23, 2005, 12:45:01 pm
Man...

Despite how many times I have said I hated Enterprise in the past, this season has made me eat my words, and then some. And last nights episode is a prime example why they should keep this show going. It was so well done. I, for one, love the Mirror universe. Especially the DS9 episodes that take center around it. Hell, they could make a new Trek based off the mirror universe alone, and if it would be anything like the DS9 episodes, or last nights Enterprise ep, I think it could have a chance.
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Ashrak on April 23, 2005, 12:46:00 pm
if it had the same intro HECK YEAH kickass
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: vyper on April 23, 2005, 01:00:46 pm
I have to say, as someone who grew up watching complete season re-runs of TOS, I felt unbelievably nostalgic when I saw the bridge of th Defiant light up. Hell, even the dead red-shirt was a good tie in!

I actually found the intro quite shocking, which shows how damned good Manny Coto is at making these things..

Edit: on a side note, Linda Park should be made to act every episode with that look. :devil:
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: SadisticSid on April 23, 2005, 01:02:12 pm
Damn, those AU characters are so much more likeable than the 'real' ones! It'll be interesting to see who stabs who in the back and how the Defiant ends up... who's betting the 'reptilians' on board might be the Gorn?
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: vyper on April 23, 2005, 01:12:56 pm
Anyone who's read the startrek.com plot synopsis?
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Dough with Fish on April 23, 2005, 01:53:33 pm
While I agree last nights episode was very good, did anyone else find it extremely corny and gut-busting hilarious in the begenning where Chrocan (sp) pulled out the shot gun and killed the Vulcan and the boarding of the ship?
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Ace on April 23, 2005, 02:18:54 pm
That was awesome. It is so cheesy that it worked :)

I'm guessing the reptilian is either going to be a Gorn or the Reptile Xindi. Most likely a Gorn though.
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Dough with Fish on April 23, 2005, 02:25:32 pm
It's going to be a Gorn. I was reading on one of the various Trek sites that they were going to make their first appearance since TOS during the final episodes.
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Ashrak on April 23, 2005, 03:33:01 pm
whats a gorn look like anyway?
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: vyper on April 23, 2005, 03:33:36 pm
Big and green
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Omniscaper on April 23, 2005, 03:43:54 pm
Zephrym Cochrane + shotgun = DEAD Vulcan

F*CKIN HILLARIOUS

Nearly peed my pants in laughter.

Mirror universe PORTHOS "The destroyer".... ROTFL
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Black Wolf on April 23, 2005, 03:45:24 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Ashrak
whats a gorn look like anyway?


(http://www.homestead.com/flowstate/files/gorn.jpg)
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Omniscaper on April 23, 2005, 04:06:31 pm
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/omniscaper/Screenshots/boom.gif)

ROTFL.... OWNED!!!!
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Carl on April 23, 2005, 06:19:21 pm
caught the rerun. yeah, it was pretty cool. i can't wait until next episode when the run around and blow stuff! :D

one thing bothered me, though. The characters seemed too evil. i know they are supposed to be, but they just didn't seem like real people the way they did the evil thing so over the top.
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Bobboau on April 23, 2005, 07:02:24 pm
and not one goatee... :doubt:
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Nuclear1 on April 23, 2005, 07:30:37 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Carl
one thing bothered me, though. The characters seemed too evil.


Of course. Because as the Professor has taught us, when you're in another universe, it's often populated by evil twins. ;)
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Carl on April 23, 2005, 07:39:12 pm
nuke, your sig is too long. get rid of the spaces.
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: vyper on April 23, 2005, 08:06:44 pm
:wtf:
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Ghost on April 23, 2005, 08:13:38 pm
Quote
and not one goatee...


Yet!
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Trivial Psychic on April 23, 2005, 08:15:06 pm
OK people... I had a brainstorm while I was at work today, and I realized what separates the standard ST universe from the Mirror universe, and its so simple!!  It all ties back to a causality paradox that didn't happen in the parallel universe.  Incase you're not familiar with a causality paradox, it means that someone or something from the future, travels into the past, interacts with that past in a way that you would expect to change things, but in actuality changes things to what they were supposed to be.  However, if that event in the past is crucial to lead up to the point in the future when the time traveller departed from, why was it already there in the past.  Basically, something like that shouldn't be allowed to exist, but it does.  Enough for theory, on to the specific events.

Since its all cyclical, its difficult to pick a point to start in, but I'll try.  I'll start in ST:TNG season 3, the Borg attack Earth and fail.  Then, during ST:FC, they try again, Borg ship destroyed but it launches the sphere which travels back in time, followed by the Enterprise.  The Borg ship fires on Cochrane's launch site, but is itself destroyed by the Enterprise, then plumets through the atmosphere and lands in the frozen wasteland of Antarctica.  Members of the Enterprise crew beam down and eventually reveal the truth to Cochrane and in the events that follow, make him the man that Federation history records him to be.  Then, during Enterprise season 2, the Borg from the sphere are revived, assimalate people, steal a ship and ultimately manage to send a slow-speed transmission to the rest of the collective.  The time of arrival and their expect response time prompt the Borg to send an exploratory mission to the Neutral zone where they attack and sample Federation and Romulan technology as mentioned in the TNG season 2 prmiere.  If not for that transmission, they woudn't have come and they wouldn't have attempted invasions twice, wouldn't have gone back in time and wouldn't have interfered with First Contact.  As I said above, no one  of these events is the trigger, and by all rights this causality paradox shouldn't exist, but it does... however in the Mirror universe, this paradox doesn't exist.

In the Mirror Universe, officers from the Enterprise-E weren't present to influence Cochrane, n'or were the Borg there to attack the facility.  Because the Borg never came, there was no leftovers from their sphere to awaken and contact the Collective during season 2 of Enterprise.  Cochrane, not having been enlightened by his time with Riker, Troy, and the rest, not having been given a glimpse of the future that he would help create, was more concerned with protecting what he'd made, and so he pulled out a shotgun, and blew away the Vulcan.  From then on, we have a different series of events, all precipitated by the lack of a certain causality paradox.  After all, if a causality paradox shouldn't be allowed to exist, whose to say that the laws of temporal physics in the mirror universe aren't such that such a paradox can't exist and as such doesn't.  No signal was sent to lure the Borg to our side of the galaxy, and by the time Q would have sent the Enterprise to that side of the Galaxy during TNG season 2, the Empire had been overwhelmed and crushed, and the human race was enslaved, as per the DS9 episode late in Season 2.  The Borg never came, so the Mirror universe became what we've seen.  Their only influence is in contact with people and technology from the Federation side, starting with the current Enterprise episode, followed by the TOS episode "Mirror, Mirror", then on to a series of episodes on DS9, all because the Borg never came, in either the future or the past.

Well, that's it.  That's the root difference.

Comments?
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Dough with Fish on April 23, 2005, 08:23:48 pm
Jesus, you thought of all that at work?

Did you get any actual work done?
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Goober5000 on April 23, 2005, 08:42:25 pm
TP: That actually makes a lot of sense. :)
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Ghost on April 23, 2005, 08:50:48 pm
That does make sense, but it doesn't explain everything. Look at the intro: it shows the HMS Enterprize as a warship, etc, etc... Plus, the astronaut with the Terran Empire flag on the moon... Also(non-canon), on the Wiki entry for "Mirror Universe," it says that Plato sung the praises of having fear as a powerful tool in a leader's arsenal.
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: vyper on April 23, 2005, 09:55:37 pm
http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/static/pages/3501.html

The Enterprise issue makes no sense Ghost - the first six HMS Enterprises (all British bar the first which was captured from the French) were Gun Frigates (the biggest being 44-gun).

The only "old" Enterprise to be a ship of exploration launched in 1848. She cannot be the one referred to in the intro sequence as the script says "Enterprize" - which was no longer the way of spelling her name in 1848 (at least in her commisioned name).

It should be noted that until the advent of aircraft carriers the British "Enterprises" were by far the most heavily armed, and the most varied - they were everything from RN tugs to RN Aux Fishing boats.

Edit:
http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/static/pages/3499.html
Some comfort could be gained in knowing the current HMS Enterprise (2002) is a Hydrographic survey vessel - exploring the new earth bound frontier of the deep.
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Trivial Psychic on April 23, 2005, 10:08:08 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Dough with Fish
Jesus, you thought of all that at work?

Did you get any actual work done?


Actually, it was late in my shift and things were gearing down somewhat (I work retail, so customer traffic was dropping) and my mind drifed back to last night's Enterprise episode, and wondered what posessed Cochrane to shoot the Vulcan.  I was thinking about whether the Enterprise-E crew were there in the Mirror Universe, then the ideas of temporal causality came in to my mind and a couple seconds later when I made the connection, I remember stopping what I was doing and saying "OHhhh MAAAAN!" out loud as the various degrees of coolness (pun definitely not intended) hit me.  I spent the rest of my shift and the walk home, running things though my mind trying to search for flaws in that theory, and planning how I would word my post in this thread.

@Goob: Thanks man. :)
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Ghost on April 23, 2005, 10:27:24 pm
Vyper: Okay, understood. Explain the Terran Empire flag on the moon.
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Nuclear1 on April 23, 2005, 11:00:59 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Carl
nuke, your sig is too long. get rid of the spaces.


Hehe, just for you, Carl ;)
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Ace on April 24, 2005, 12:42:49 am
Quote
Originally posted by Ghost
Vyper: Okay, understood. Explain the Terran Empire flag on the moon.


From what I remember the astronaut was in a starfleet uniform. So it was most likely a re-landing on the moon. (claiming it in the name of the Empire now)

It would have been even better for this theory if the American flag left by Apollo 11 was knocked down and replaced by the Imperial flag :)

The Enterprise title is notorious for having events out of chronological order, so this would make sense.

Personally, I would have had the current Earth government be something like: "The Terran Commonwealth" which is then replaced by the Empire when Archer declares himself Emporer Archer I and uses the Defiant to wipe out both the rebel and Terran fleets to seize power.

But, part two might still be just as fun :)
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Ashrak on April 24, 2005, 02:45:09 am
your all right ... and yes the borg were the turning point ... heck for all we know ... the borg are the good guys in mirror uni
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Trivial Psychic on April 24, 2005, 03:10:38 am
I think the Borg are present in the Mirror universe, they just haven't been given a sufficient reason to head over to this side of the galaxy yet.  I wonder if the Borg will get wiped out in the Mirror Universe if/when they decide to pay species 8472 a visit.  No Starfleet, no Voyager there to save the day.  Of course, it could be argued that events in the Federation side (an idea from some Starfleet officer they assimalated at Wolf 359) prompted the Borg to investigate Fluidic Space, so perhaps they didn't go there in the Mirror universe.
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: IceFire on April 24, 2005, 08:01:38 pm
Just saw it...awesome :)  Bare-midriffs...I could get used to that? :)
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Omniscaper on April 24, 2005, 09:47:32 pm
LOL... watched it again. I have a new found respect for Zephram Cochrane. That and 12 gauge shotguns. Vulcans can really fly!!!
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Ford Prefect on April 24, 2005, 09:49:47 pm
Where the hell did that happen? I'm so confused.
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Ghost on April 24, 2005, 09:55:13 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Ford Prefect
Where the hell did that happen? I'm so confused.



Where did what happen, the Vulcan getting shot? The very beginning, in the First Contact scene.
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Grey Wolf on April 24, 2005, 09:57:28 pm
I really liked the idea that the Ent-E screwed up the universe, causing the Mirror Universe. One of the few decent ideas in the Shatner books. I even had placed the entire Enterprise timeline inside of the Mirror Universe. These episodes destroy the idea that made me happy through the first few seasons...
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Ford Prefect on April 24, 2005, 09:58:04 pm
I mean, First Contact scene in what?
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Carl on April 24, 2005, 10:08:09 pm
in the beginning of this episode.
Title: Enterprise: Mirror Universe Two Parter
Post by: Liberator on April 24, 2005, 10:12:49 pm
Just saw it...WOW!