Hard Light Productions Forums

Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: achtung on April 27, 2005, 04:29:11 pm

Title: Border Control
Post by: achtung on April 27, 2005, 04:29:11 pm
I came across the border control petition at //www.reformus.org I signed it but I don't know if it will make a difference.

But the issue does need attention.

Well i guess this only applies to those in the U.S.
Title: Border Control
Post by: Swamp_Thing on April 27, 2005, 07:44:53 pm
Yeah, now you can protect yourself from the hords of mexican  terrorists...
:rolleyes:
Title: Border Control
Post by: achtung on April 27, 2005, 07:55:29 pm
Hehe:D .  But, but, *sniffle* they took my minimum wage job picking srawberries:lol: jk.
Title: Border Control
Post by: Rictor on April 27, 2005, 08:13:14 pm
(http://www.drosi.de/md/md2003_094b.jpg)

[size="5"]Vigilante justice: it works! ("http://www.minutemanproject.com/")[/size]
Title: Border Control
Post by: Corsair on April 27, 2005, 08:27:35 pm
Border patrol, eh? (http://www.transience.com.au/el/elgameo.html)
Title: Border Control
Post by: Deepblue on April 27, 2005, 08:36:17 pm
Why don't we just build a freakin' fence...
Title: Border Control
Post by: Night Hammer on April 27, 2005, 08:44:27 pm
i think the chinese had it right with the great wall
Title: Border Control
Post by: MatthewPapa on April 27, 2005, 08:46:26 pm
Land mines and tesla coils....the only way to go.

*signs*
Title: Border Control
Post by: achtung on April 27, 2005, 09:29:56 pm
If you ask me I think the best way would be automated gun turrets:D :p probably infrared tracking systems of course there would be warning signs though.
Title: Border Control
Post by: Deepblue on April 27, 2005, 09:38:33 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Swamp_Thing
Yeah, now you can protect yourself from the hords of mexican  terrorists...
:rolleyes:


Drug dealers, etc.

You're absolutely correct.
Title: Border Control
Post by: Drew on April 27, 2005, 11:03:23 pm
online petitions  hah bull****

we should just stick it to the man and make it impossible for illegals to live here. the problem is entirely internal, it has nothing to do with loose borders.
Title: Border Control
Post by: Taristin on April 27, 2005, 11:08:38 pm
But... but... Who'll pick our fruit, and clean our public restrooms now?

I sure as feck don't want those jobs.
Title: Border Control
Post by: Liberator on April 27, 2005, 11:16:54 pm
Ahh, here's the rub.

I don't mind them coming in, just do it legally and integrate with the fecking culture.  I am sick to ****ing death of driving through Little Mexico cause they don't want to adapt.  I mean we got 2 bloody spanish speaking stations on my cable because there are so many non-english speaking folk around...:mad:
Title: Border Control
Post by: Night Hammer on April 27, 2005, 11:19:34 pm
youre complaining about 2? come to texas:doubt:... its awful
Title: Border Control
Post by: Rictor on April 27, 2005, 11:21:18 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Swamp_Thing
Yeah, now you can protect yourself from the hords of mexican  terrorists...
:rolleyes:


You mean...you?

[size="1"]The following is an actual self-picture posted by Swamp thing in this ("http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,29858.0.html") thread. I shit you not. [/size]

(http://images5.theimagehosting.com/myfoto1.jpg)

;) ;)
Title: Border Control
Post by: Drew on April 27, 2005, 11:24:59 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Raa
But... but... Who'll pick our fruit, and clean our public restrooms now?

I sure as feck don't want those jobs.


all the dropouts and lowlifes in the schools these days
Title: Border Control
Post by: Night Hammer on April 27, 2005, 11:34:42 pm
depending on where you are a high percentage of those be the mescans
Title: Border Control
Post by: Swamp_Thing on April 28, 2005, 12:02:47 am
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor


You mean...you?

[size="1"]The following is an actual self-picture posted by Swamp thing in ;) ;)


Your point is?
I´m not mexican. Although some might think i look like one...
As a litle sidetrack, did you know my real name is Geronimo? I **** you not. I´m an american legend descendent!
:p

EDIT: Hey, how come he can post s.h.i.t and i can not??
I want equal word filter rights!!

**grabs the sign and hits the street in protest**
Title: Border Control
Post by: aldo_14 on April 28, 2005, 07:19:46 am
Ah, God, it's like listening to Michael Howard all over again......I presume people realise American trade policies (i.e Nafta) have helped drive this 'immigration problem' by ****ing up the Mexican economy?
Title: Border Control
Post by: Liberator on April 28, 2005, 08:05:40 am
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
Ah, God, it's like listening to Michael Howard all over again......I presume people realise American trade policies (i.e Nafta) have helped drive this 'immigration problem' by ****ing up the Mexican economy?


Hate to break it to you, but Nafta helped the Mexican economy.  The only economy it screwed over was the USA's because it made it easier for manufacturers to move their operations outside the US.
Title: Border Control
Post by: aldo_14 on April 28, 2005, 08:38:44 am
Actually, Mexicos population living under the poverty line has increased by something like 11 million people since Nafta was introduced.  The introduction of subsidised US grain imports has helped destroy the traditional farming villages and led to those farmers either being unemployed or working low-income level jobs at the large producers.

What you're seeing is that Mexicans are being pushed into low-income jobs or poverty by the domination of big business plus the dumping of subsidised US grain (in particular), which in turn fuels either economic migration to the US or big business taking advantage of said low standard wages.

http://www.heureka.clara.net/gaia/nafta.htm
[q]
#  It’s estimated that over a million US manufacturing jobs have been lost since NAFTA as companies relocated to Mexico to take advantage of $5 per day wages for Mexican workers. Without enforceable labor rights, Mexican workers cannot organize to increase their wages. The laid-off US workers usually find jobs with less security and wages that are about 77% of what they originally had.
# The trade surplus the US enjoyed with Mexico before NAFTA has become an $24.2 billion per year deficit as of 2000.
# Despite promises of increased economic development throughout Mexico, only the border region has seen intensified industrial activity. In border maquiladora factories, over one million more Mexicans work for less than the minimum wage of $5 per day today than before NAFTA. Meanwhile, NAFTA’s agricultural terms have devastated small farmers, with one million peasant farm families estimated to have been forced out of farming. The displaced campesinos are forced either into immigrating to the US or into Mexico’s overcrowded cities where unemployment runs rampant. During the NAFTA period, eight million Mexicans have fallen from the middle class into poverty.
# In addition, the increase of border industry has created worsening environmental and public health threats in the area. Along the border, the occurrence of some environmental diseases, including hepatitis, is two or three times the national average, due to lack of sewage treatment and safe drinking water.
# In preparation for NAFTA, Mexico repealed Article 27 of the Constitution, which gave people rights to communal land ownership.
# Dumping of maize in Mexico has displaced at least 500,000 farmers and is steadily eroding the genetic diversity of thousands varieties of native maize varieties.
# Health, safety and environmental laws in the three NAFTA countries have been attacked in NAFTA tribunals, where corporations demand financial compensation for public interest laws that cut into corporate profit.
[/q]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3233832.stm
Mexico is the largest beneficiary so far of the free trade deal that the US is seeking to expand to the rest of Latin America in recent negotiations.

The North American Free Trade Agreement (Nafta), signed in the late 1990s between the US, Canada and Mexico, has seen trade soar until recently thanks to lower tariffs.

But critics charge that in Mexico in particular, Nafta has brought mainly low-wage jobs at the maquiladora factories which put together goods for export, which make the country vulnerable to the vagaries of its neighbour's economy.


http://www.ceip.org/files/publications/NAFTA_Report_full.asp
See page 2-3 of chapter 1 in particular;
 "NAFTA has produced a dissapointingly small net gain of jobs in Mexico", "Mexican agriculture has been a net loser in trade with the United States... US exports of subsidized crops have depressed agricultural prices in Mexico...the rural poor have borne the brunt of Adjustment", "NAFTAs net effect on jobs in the United States has been miniscule", "Real wages for Mexicans today are lower than before NAFTA took effect", "Income inequality has been on the rise in Mexico since NAFTA took effect, reversing the declining trend in the early 90s"

(link to the above report & a summary; http://www.eldis.org/static/DOC14630.htm)
The report's main findings include:

    * NAFTA has not helped the Mexican economy keep pace with the growing demand for jobs, and real wages for most Mexicans are lower than they were when NAFTA took effect
    * NAFTA has not stemmed the flow of poor Mexicans into the United States in search of jobs; in fact, there has been a dramatic rise in the number of migrants to the United States, despite an unprecedented increase in border control measures
    * the fear of a "race to the bottom" in environmental regulation has proved unfounded. However, Mexico's evolution towards a modern, export-oriented agricultural sector has also failed to deliver the anticipated environmental benefits of reduced deforestation and tillage

The report argues that while NAFTA's overall impact may be muddled, for Mexico's rural households the picture is clear – and bleak. NAFTA has accelerated Mexico's transition to a liberalised economy without creating the necessary conditions for the public and private sectors to respond to the economic, social, and environmental shocks of trading with two of the biggest economies in the world. Mexico's most vulnerable citizens have faced a maelstrom of change beyond their capacity, or that of their government, to control.


http://www.cooperativeindividualism.org/mexico_naftaimpact.html (bit old)

http://www.sustecweb.co.uk/past/sustec10-1/page23.html
Title: Border Control
Post by: T1g4h on April 28, 2005, 10:08:20 am
Quote
Originally posted by Deepblue
Why don't we just build a freakin' fence...


What he said...

Also, I suck at that El Emigrante game XD
Title: Border Control
Post by: karajorma on April 28, 2005, 01:54:19 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Deepblue
Why don't we just build a freakin' fence...


And then extend it around the whole of middle america and put a roof on the top! :D
Title: Border Control
Post by: Taristin on April 28, 2005, 02:07:40 pm
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma


And then extend it around the whole of middle america and put a roof on the top! :D


Oh what a day that would be! :D
Title: Border Control
Post by: Flipside on April 28, 2005, 02:39:30 pm
I agree with the wall, it would stop people going across to mexico and abducting 14 year old girls as sex-slaves.

Edit :  Seriously though, immigration IS a problem, but the problem lies with the fact that some countries are so poor that people have to run away to other ones.