Hard Light Productions Forums

Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: redmenace on May 05, 2005, 03:49:56 pm

Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: redmenace on May 05, 2005, 03:49:56 pm: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050505/D89T6CAO1.html

More proof that if you will not listen to others and have your head up you collective asses that it will be your downfall.
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: Liberator on May 05, 2005, 04:40:35 pm: This falls squarely at the foot of the Unions. They have demanded so much that they are now killing the Golden Goose.
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: redmenace on May 05, 2005, 04:51:51 pm: not so quick,
yes Union in michigan make it difficult for GM to compete with foreign companies, but this is more or less related to bad business plans than labor relations. The management of GM are very lofty and proud and thus are recieving the friuts of their labor.
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: Taristin on May 05, 2005, 05:08:30 pm: Ugly cars + High prices + Medium Quality (Domestic)

vs

Sexy Cars + lower prices +High Quality (foreign)

's why GM is failing.
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: Andreas on May 05, 2005, 05:13:15 pm: Right on. :D
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: redmenace on May 05, 2005, 05:28:24 pm: http://www.detnews.com/2005/editorial/0503/30/A09-133118.htm

Their labor problems(ie benefits promised to retirees) are only accelerating their demise.
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: Taristin on May 05, 2005, 05:32:38 pm: Well, when you had a choice between:

or

Which would you choose? ;7
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: Liberator on May 05, 2005, 05:46:09 pm: At least use a decent example of an American car:
(http://www.womanmotorist.com/images/articles/reviews/ford/2005_MustangConv_01.jpg)
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: aldo_14 on May 05, 2005, 05:47:01 pm: **** me, that's an ugly motor. Looks like something from Sweden or Germany in the 80s.
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: Taristin on May 05, 2005, 05:50:10 pm: Actually, I find it quite horrid, myself. It's a futile attempt to gain sales by appealing to nostalgia. And it's just so fugly. Looking at it head on, it looks like it's frowning. :blah:
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: redmenace on May 05, 2005, 05:51:49 pm: it is supposed to be a shelby GT.
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: Taristin on May 05, 2005, 05:52:01 pm: It's supposed to be recapturing the look of the 1969 Mustang.

(http://www.hubcapcafe.com/i_st/allford2001.JPG)

It fails.

(Coincidentally, i used to have a 69 stang convertable. Same paint job as the one above. It was pretty sweet.)
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: kode on May 05, 2005, 06:18:30 pm: Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
**** me, that's an ugly motor. Looks like something from Sweden or Germany in the 80s.

**** that, man. the saab 900 is still the seksiest car in existence, after the volvo amazon.
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: Unknown Target on May 05, 2005, 07:04:16 pm: You guys are all so jaded. It's not an ugly car, it's actually quite good looking, imho. And it's not a "futile attempt," either, it recaptures the old look and blends it with the new. I'm also pretty sure that the car has gotten quite good sales, even if other Ford vehicles haven't. And anyway, most Asian cars pretty much have the same styling, and their sports cars are usuall only marginally different.
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: Taristin on May 05, 2005, 08:18:50 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Unknown Target
I'm also pretty sure that the car has gotten quite good sales, even if other Ford vehicles haven't.

That's because it still has those 'I ain't buying GM/Chrysler' followers that will buy it even if it looked like a turd with an extra wheel. It's a cult following.

Quote
Originally posted by Unknown Target

And anyway, most Asian cars pretty much have the same styling, and their sports cars are usuall only marginally different.

Um.....? Since when? I see a great diversity in the cars coming from Asia.

The Tiburon looks like nothing else, for example.

Unless you mean how the 350z looks like the G35... then yes. It's the same car. ;)
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: WeatherOp on May 05, 2005, 09:33:10 pm: Ok, why did no one post this.;7

(http://www.chevrolet.com/i/gallery/corvette/ext_gallery11.jpg)

With this: 400-hp LS2 6.0L V8 Engine
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: Taristin on May 05, 2005, 09:40:07 pm: Because that's a ripoff of this:

Yep. Ferrari had that entire design first. :p
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: IceFire on May 05, 2005, 10:06:17 pm: Heads up to GM...stop making crappy looking, crappy quality cars, without any heads up towards the future of car travel by investing in hybrid engines and the like.

Most or all of the Japanese car manufacturers are going to hybrid engines on their entire lineups I've read. Why are the big three American manufacturers holding back?

I drive (my parents) 1997 Intrepid which is a fantastic handling car...but I've been in the new Intrepids and they aren't as good as the old ones....and all of them have a noisy ride. Not much attention paid to accoustics...
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: Setekh on May 05, 2005, 10:13:56 pm: I suspect it's still going to be some time until I appreciate the beauty of motor vehicles. Sorry guys. :p
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: Taristin on May 05, 2005, 10:14:47 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Setekh
I suspect it's still going to be some time until I appreciate the beauty of motor vehicles. Sorry guys. :p

So... then this post was spam? ;)
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: Swamp_Thing on May 05, 2005, 10:19:39 pm: I´m a sucker for 60s and 70s american muscle cars. There were some really awesome stuff rolling the roads back then.
There were also a few european and japanese cars that tried to copy the look, like the first Celica. Very similar to the Mustang.
Just out of curiosity, how much does a Mustang cost? Or a Ford GT? Not in mint condition, i mean a beat up car, with rust taking over, bad paint, you know, old and beat up. What´s the average price for such a second hand 69 Mustang?
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: Setekh on May 05, 2005, 10:19:30 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Raa
So... then this post was spam? ;)

Yes, that post of yours was spam. :D

Seriously though, if someone can show me why those cars are so desirable - totally apart from how well they handle and how comfortable they are to drive (since that's virtually all I value - not much opportunity to use those great engines when you're doing suburban driving), then I'll be grateful. It totally eludes me and I wish I understood it.
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: Taristin on May 05, 2005, 10:29:57 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Setekh

Seriously though, if someone can show me why those cars are so desirable - totally apart from how well they handle and how comfortable they are to drive (since that's virtually all I value - not much opportunity to use those great engines when you're doing suburban driving), then I'll be grateful. It totally eludes me and I wish I understood it.

Apart from that? That may be tough. :p

There's no real reason to like cars, then, if all you look forward to from them is transportation from point a to point b.

But if you like to take backroads, or do a little speeding about on the larger highways, it's different. I like the feeling of being in control of my vehicle. I like how responsive it is, how well it corners at medium high speeds.

I like how it looks, and like to keep it looking at it's peak.

I can't really say what the allure is. Some people are attractive to grossly overcompensating amounts of horsepower. That's what the majority of the American market is out for anyway. :p I personally think ~325 is the max a car can use effectively in real world situations.

and... err... my train of thought derailed, again... so I'm posting a picture of my dream car:

(http://www.tommy-fung.f4w.net/images/car-FTO-1.jpg)

Quote
Originally posted by Swamp_Thing
Just out of curiosity, how much does a Mustang cost? Or a Ford GT? Not in mint condition, i mean a beat up car, with rust taking over, bad paint, you know, old and beat up. What´s the average price for such a second hand 69 Mustang?

I sold mine for 3k USD. It needed a bit of work. It had rust, and some small dings, and could probably really used a tune up. Fully restored, they go for ~15-30K USD, so use that as a general guide.
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: Grug on May 05, 2005, 10:30:29 pm: Give me a buggy and an open beach and I'm gone. :)

Make for a great weekend, nothing but drinking, surfing and driving. What more could you want? :D
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: WMCoolmon on May 05, 2005, 11:14:06 pm: Stop posting such sexy pictures of cars or you'll get this thread locked.
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: Liberator on May 05, 2005, 11:14:48 pm: I don't know I'm kinda partial to my new car:
(http://www.geocities.com/lorzon1/S3010437.jpg)
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: Roanoke on May 06, 2005, 04:28:26 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Raa
I can't really say what the allure is. Some people are attractive to grossly overcompensating amounts of horsepower. That's what the majority of the American market is out for anyway. :p I personally think ~325 is the max a car can use effectively in real world situations.

I understand 200 - 220 is the most a FWD can really put down.

I wouldn't mind a Camaro. Thumping V8. Rear wheel Drive. Shame about no RHD. And the insurance. :doubt:

Rear wheel drive is a real rarity in Blighty. I'm having to look at mid 1970s/early 1980s for my throttle oversteer fun.
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: DaBrain on May 06, 2005, 05:24:06 pm: It was obvious GM had problems.

A few months ago GM fired a lot of workers at Opel here in Germany. :(

They bought Opel because it was a very successful, but the GM management wasn't able to keep this success up.
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: BlackDove on May 06, 2005, 06:28:45 pm: Personally I'd like to ride this sometime soon.

(http://www.auto-sfondi-desktop.com/Wallpapers_Jaguar_/Jaguar-XK180/Jaguar-XK180-02/Jaguar-XK180-02_800.jpg)

But thread's not about that.

GM and well...there are many companies like GM that have their head up their asses.

Good choice on rejecting that hybrid idea too. They'll be lucky if it doesn't turn into another Xerox/Apple story.
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: kode on May 06, 2005, 06:52:57 pm: Quote
Originally posted by BlackDove
Good choice on rejecting that hybrid idea too. They'll be lucky if it doesn't turn into another Xerox/Apple story.

saab did too, 20 years ago. stupid decision. toyota didn't, and that's why they're about 20 years ahead of just about everyone else now.
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: EtherShock on May 06, 2005, 08:07:56 pm: The reason they're in the toilet is because they depended on gas guzzling SUVs and huge trucks for their profits. We could've had fuel cell cars by now, but the freakin' oil companies lobbied to keep that from happening. The auto industry knows fuel cells are the future, and they want it to happen. They're just having trouble cutting through the red tape.

As for design, the Mustang is abusing the nostalgia factor, while the 'Vette at least isn't a total throwback. What the industry needs are some crazy minds like they used to. Where does Chrysler fit into this anyway? I guess they're doing well?
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: vyper on May 06, 2005, 08:24:40 pm: Aston Martin just got attitude:

Edit: Damned url parsing...
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: vyper on May 06, 2005, 08:31:41 pm: Better:
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: Unknown Target on May 06, 2005, 08:37:20 pm: Mmm...good old fashioned American muscle..

(http://www.dreamcarstore.net/cars/276-1.jpg)

(http://www.dreamcarstore.net/cars/274-1.jpg)
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: BlackDove on May 06, 2005, 08:49:54 pm: Isn't the good ole American designed to be the ultra expensive ole American so that dopes that buy it have to spend tons of **** on gas?
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: Unknown Target on May 06, 2005, 09:00:27 pm: That's just for those huge engines. If you're a mechanic and have some spare time, you could replace the older V-6s and 8s with more gas efficient new ones.
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: BlackDove on May 06, 2005, 09:02:42 pm: But......isn't that defying the point of WANTING one of those beasts? (because they are beasts, I'll give them that)
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: Unknown Target on May 06, 2005, 09:04:15 pm: For me, I want them because of the stylings, not so much the giant engine. Hell, if I could get one with a more fuel-efficient engine, I'd pick it over the leanest, meanest one out there.
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: Mongoose on May 06, 2005, 11:11:54 pm: If I could get my hands on one of those beauties, I'd be more than willing to pay extra for gas. Hearing one of those V-8s rev up is music to my ears. :D
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: Swamp_Thing on May 07, 2005, 02:03:00 am: What are those two cars you posted, UT? The second looks a lot like the Celica, albeit this one looks a bit bigger than the Celica. But the shape is the exact same.
If i could get my hands on one of those, i would throw my PC out the window and move in to my garage. I´ve been looking for a Celica for years, but people that do own one aren´t willing to part ways with it for less than 5000 euros They are a colectible item now.
The first one looks mighty sweet too, it resembles a lot a car i used to have that my brother crashed years ago. It was an Opel, but still very good.
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: Andreas on May 07, 2005, 02:37:43 am: I pity you, people. You call all those fugly Mitsubishi concept cars sexy? :p
My love: Chevrolet Monte Carlo '74 ;7
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/CCbilan/Vikensin.jpg)
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: Clave on May 07, 2005, 04:50:09 am: That's hitting new heights of ugly!
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: Roanoke on May 07, 2005, 05:10:27 am: Quote
Originally posted by Swamp_Thing
What are those two cars you posted, UT? The second looks a lot like the Celica, albeit this one looks a bit bigger than the Celica. But the shape is the exact same.
If i could get my hands on one of those, i would throw my PC out the window and move in to my garage. I´ve been looking for a Celica for years, but people that do own one aren´t willing to part ways with it for less than 5000 euros They are a colectible item now.
The first one looks mighty sweet too, it resembles a lot a car i used to have that my brother crashed years ago. It was an Opel, but still very good.

Yu're looking at a Camaro SS (Green) and the other is either a Plymouth 'Cuda or Dodge Challenger.

and look at this:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2192&item=4548089558&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
not pretty, but 7.5??!!
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: Swamp_Thing on May 07, 2005, 06:58:32 am: Hey, Pontiac "Hammer" are great to work with, if you´re into tuning. That yellow is ugly, but the GTO is a great car.
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: EtherShock on May 07, 2005, 12:15:07 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Clave
That's hitting new heights of ugly!

Apparently, there are differences among Americans and Europeans when it comes to car culture.
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: vyper on May 07, 2005, 12:33:14 pm: He's British - which for you, is worse. :p

*goes to make sure Rover is happily still sitting in drive way*
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: kode on May 07, 2005, 04:00:20 pm: Quote
Originally posted by EtherShock

Apparently, there are differences among Americans and Europeans when it comes to car culture.

well, yeah. and there's differences among europeans and europeans too.
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: Clave on May 07, 2005, 04:05:58 pm: Yeah...Volvos :p

What the hell is up with this censor? you can't write *s ni g g e r* talk about retarded! :wtf:
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: kode on May 07, 2005, 04:08:19 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Clave
Yeah...Volvos *s******* :p

like you're so much better...

and I still say that the amazon is just about the seksiest car ever.

oh, so they finally fixed niggar?
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: mitac on May 07, 2005, 04:44:29 pm: Quote
Originally posted by EtherShock

Apparently, there are differences among Americans and Europeans when it comes to car culture.

Bet on it.

By the way :

(http://image02.webshots.com/2/3/8/25/44230825wHYRVh_ph.jpg)

:D
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: Unknown Target on May 07, 2005, 05:03:13 pm: The first one is a Dodge Challenger, the second is a Camaro :)
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: Roanoke on May 08, 2005, 04:11:26 am: Right now I'm after an Opel Manta

(http://premium1.uploadit.org/magatsu1//bill_flook02[1].jpg)

(http://premium1.uploadit.org/magatsu1//allan_gilbert01[1].jpg)

Good Rally cars in their day.
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: Kosh on May 09, 2005, 03:53:00 am: Quote
Originally posted by Setekh
I suspect it's still going to be some time until I appreciate the beauty of motor vehicles. Sorry guys. :p

Same here. I'm proud to say that I'm 19 and I don't have a drivers liscense or even a learning permit. :)
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: Andreas on May 09, 2005, 06:39:10 am: I'm not planning of getting a driver's license either (it costs like hell, first of all) any time soon. Actually, I'd really want to learn how to ride a horse. :o
Title: GM is in trouble.
Post by: Stealth on May 09, 2005, 07:36:59 am: i actually think the new mustang does a pretty good job of imitating the original 60s mustangs. at a show i went to they had old and new parked next to each other, and they actually do look very similar. plus they're fast too.

and has anyone seen a new mustang saleen? i see one on the way home from work every day... lamborghini doors and all. that thing looks SWEET :D