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So... the Grand Finale, Wednesday at midnight, worldwide (and timezone-dependent). Which means that I'll probably see it before most of you. Nyah nyah. :p Discuss.
Secondly, this article (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/artsentertainment/2002272705_georgelucas15.html) has an interesting tidbit of information thrown in there without reference or source, but a VERY interesting tidbit indeed:
[q]Producer Rick McCallum and Lucas are planning to go back and reconfigure all the movies for 3D, and neither rules out making changes in the process. Lucas, who says he has kept himself outside the "Star Wars" phenomenon while acting as "an obviously interested observer" of the influence that his wild idea has had on the culture of the 20th and 21st centuries, says he will be involved with the 3D editions, but they will not rule what he says is the third act of his life.[/q]
Again, discuss.
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3D ? as in holotech 3D? or surroundvision 3D?
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Originally posted by Sandwich
Rick McCallum and Lucas are planning to go back and reconfigure all the movies for 3D, and neither rules out making changes in the process.
God has forsaken us.
After what he's done with Ep 1 and 2 I have little hope left, and KOTOR claimed my soul.
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Something suggests Lucas will spend the rest of his life improving on Star Wars.
Long live the master!
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i'm also going wednesday night :)
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has lucas ever tried to get a different universe going? ever? id like to see him do some non-star wars sci-fi for a change.
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indiana jones :p
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Improving is a relative term, kinda like computer computer games. The image 'improves' the content doesn't.
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This movie is going to be earth-shatteringly awesome. Did anyone see the preview where Mace Windu and three other Jedi go into Palpatine's office to arrest him, and he TAKES THEM ALL ON?!?!?! WHO DOES THAT?! I can't handle it!!!!!!!!! I have to see it NOW!
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LOL Yes, must admit, I'm looking forward more to this one than the other 2 :)
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I enjoyed the first two as much as, if not more than, the original movies. It felt to me like they showed more of the Star Wars universe than the originals. The worlds are spectacular to look at, the lightsaber fighting is a million times better, and they're just generally much more exciting to me.
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Indeed, but then the Universe has had 25 years to be worked on. I found the plot and cast to be weaker and less human, and the whole focus to be more based on how it looked rather than the characters and acting. None of the acting was 'bad' as such, but it just didn't allow the viewers to empathise or relate to the characters in the same way as the original did. The example I'll always use is that, for all the fancy acting, there is not a scene so far in the new episodes that have the passion of Luke when Vader threatens his sister, or the desperation of the Rebel pilots as they take on the Death Star, you truly felt sympathetic for them, you really hated Vader, you really gritted your teeth and said 'Go there my Son!' when Luke uses the lightsaber like a Baseball bat in his final battle with Vader.
So yes, more universe, less feeling.
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The new SW movies compared to the old trilogy are like Freelancer compared to Freespace - more eye-candy, to the exclusion of anything resembling a good story / casting. :ick:
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not to mention the specal effects look crappy in the new films, so far. maybe the next one will be diferent but after seeing what has happened, I doubt it, were likely to see a whole bunch more hey! HEY LOOK! HEY!!! LOOK AT ME!!!!! I'M COMPUTER GENORATED!!!!!!!! LOOOK ENVIRONMENT MAPPING!@!!!!!!!!!!!! ENVIRONMENT MAPPING!!!!!!!!!!!!! i'M NOT A REAL (SHIP/LIVEING THING), I'M NOT A REAL ANYTHING I'M COMPUTER GENORATED LOOK AND BE AMAZED AT THE NOT A-SPACE-(SHIP/ALIEN)NESS i'M NOT REAL DON'T EVEN THINK IT POSABLE!!!!!!!
the effects are totaly not beleveable, the point of effects is to make something that cannot exsist look like it's there in real life, you don't even think for an instant that anything you see is real, the ships are too clean and the animals are too... bouncey/bright/shiney.
the sad thing is the same people thirty years ago were able to acheve some of the best effects ever, infact the made the stick by wich everything else has been measured sence, a stick far larger than the one they use today.
:(
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:nod:
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I agree wiht bob, there is no good blending between the real and computer stuff.
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they tend to make things too shiny these days.... or give skin a plastic look...
You think those famed animators should know better..they could learn from Gollum!!
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The fact is that even Special Effects experts agree that models work better, but making decent models and finding decent physical modellers is more expensive than CG stuff. George Lucas, however, gets carried away, with all his nice shiny spaceships and luminous aliens. Take a look at Tatooine in Ep1 and in Ep4, I much prefer the Ep4 one, which really looks like a dump, even the Falcon, with it's burn marks and dirt stains, has 1000x more character than the ridiculously fake ships in the new movies. Jim Henson and the muppet workshop dd a better job at the aliens as well, why? Because they were real objects interacting with a real environment, and we still lack the technology to produce that seamlessly on a computer.
If a CG alien picks up a drink, the you either need to layer the image over a real person picking up the drink, which always makes the drink sit wrongly in the CG's hand, or you can animate the drink as well, which then leaves you to worry about the drinks interaction with the table it's on, i.e. refraction of light, shadow etc, which never looks quite 'right'. You can see how this leads to a chain where everything is suddenly computer animated, and the human eye is more susceptible to the small 'errors of reality' when you are trying to trick it than an obvious man in a rubber suit. It's strange, but true.
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The new episode's ships are shiny because they are new. Brand new. The pod racers looked beat up, but recently cleaned before the race. Do you think sebulba would want a big beat up piece of crap on the track and call it his own? In episode 4-6, each of the ships saw a ton of action from the moment of completion to the destruction/recycling/losing-and-not-finding.
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Actually, I don't recall it being mentioned anywhere that the ships were brand new, simply that the clones inside them were, in the case of the Pre Star-Destroyers. The B-Wings in ROTJ were brand new, and clean, yet still managed to remain matte.
Edit : Basically, I don't see, in a universe that is supposedly 20,000 years old, a reason for suddenly everyone to jump up and say 'Let's build some brand new ships! After all Vader and the Emperor are coming and we want to look our best!'.
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But that's actually part of the problem. The plot of the new movies have everything to bright, shiney, and artificial.
The robot armies didn't look worn with use, being dragged from battlefield to battlefield for various reasons and then used in the movie.
The 'Naboo' (uggh) ships were bright and shiney like they had never been used, ever. There were no marks on them from their landing during training exercises, no paint chipping from friction in the atmosphere, normal wear and tear.
The Republic cruiser shown at the start of Episode 1 and Obi-Wan's fighter in Episode 2 are some of the few prequel ships that look like Star Wars ships. ...and they were rarely used.
Meh.
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I think CG work in any movie will be scrutinized because of its widespread presence in main stream media today. Our generation have been spoilled by video games and TV shows where CG is prevelant now. To top that, we know how its made and are familiar with all the technical elements and glitches associated with with CG content.
When I was young, I had NO CLUE as to how they made those special effects in the original trilogy. Matting techniques and photography tricks was not in my head. In the back of my mind I knew it wasn't real, but the lack of knowledge in its creation just fueled my imagination and convinced me of its illusion. Another plus side of old skool effects is that it wasn't too detailed. It gave just enough information to convince me and my imagination took care of the rest.
Could CG and live action be blended better... of course. Does CG get abused... of course. But put yourself in the shoes of today's 7-10 year olds. Imagine whats goin on in their heads when they first saw the prequels. Though I don't differ to their judgement in matters of story (hell they like Jar Jar) , I can appreciate Lucas's goal of targeting the next generation.
I think EP3 will be targetting all audiences this time around, but it would have been nice if Lucas just continued his focus on the story and not marketing from the get go.
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Just found out I'm going to see it at half twelve on wednesday night - perks of being friends with a girl at the cinema box office. ;)
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me and my friends got tickets for the 1215 showing on wednesday night/thursday morning
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The problem is that he is using so many special effects that ILM can't make each one look good.
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Originally posted by Flipside
Actually, I don't recall it being mentioned anywhere that the ships were brand new, simply that the clones inside them were, in the case of the Pre Star-Destroyers. The B-Wings in ROTJ were brand new, and clean, yet still managed to remain matte.
Edit : Basically, I don't see, in a universe that is supposedly 20,000 years old, a reason for suddenly everyone to jump up and say 'Let's build some brand new ships! After all Vader and the Emperor are coming and we want to look our best!'.
I think you're looking at this too literally. Maybe George has a reason for the clean look of the first trilogy. The pristine appearnce could be some sort of symbolism. The Republic was a shining beacon. It's like a contrast of things. Every thing is all shiny and clean before the rise of the Empire. Then after things changed, much like the Millennium Falcon, they didn't look like much, but they had it where it counted. Not necessarily realistic (possible though) but it gets the message across. Then again, maybe during the Republic they just cared for their ships' exteriors better. :p
Anyone ever notice the Imperial craft looked clean pretty compared to the Rebels'? Maybe not clean like the Republic, but fairly clean. They had virtually unlimited resources to build new vessels, while the Rebellion used whatever they could for however long it would last, so their stuff looked like a "hunk of junk."
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The Republic is rotting from the inside, so it's not really the ideal that the Rebellion tries to get people to think of.
Anyways, the ship design in general in the original trilogy was far superior, even ignoring whether they look worn or not. The ships just have a better design, and look fairly functional whether they are or not.
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The new Star Wars movies are making no heavier use of special effects than the originals, relative to the respective times in which they were made. I'm sure people in the 1970s saw the originals and grumbled about overuse of special effects. Besides, I don't know about any of you, but I'll take CG over puppets any time.
As for becoming attached to characters, I think that's a rather personal thing. I actually find it easier to get emotionally involved in the new movies because I can look at what's happening and feel the dread of knowing how it's going to play out.
Acting? I'm sorry, you can whine all you want about Anakin, but Mark Hamill's acting wasn't fit for my school drama club.
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In the 70's they never saw special effects lquite ike that until star wars debut and it took the world by storm. I know when I first saw it I was awe struck by that star destroyer in the opening scene.:drevil:
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the origonal versions looked better, they looked better than the rererererereremastered version with the totaly new effects and added sceens and stuff. if the new effects were soposed to make the old republic look shiney and happy then why did the same thing happen when they reworked the origonal trilogy?
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Originally posted by Ford Prefect
The new Star Wars movies are making no heavier use of special effects than the originals, relative to the respective times in which they were made. I'm sure people in the 1970s saw the originals and grumbled about overuse of special effects. Besides, I don't know about any of you, but I'll take CG over puppets any time.
I think this is part of the problem. No one in 1970 grumbled about the special effects because the original trilogy was absolutely groundbreaking in comparison. Watch Star Wars and then look at, say, any episode of ST:TOS that you can find. They are seperated by 10 years or so, yes, but the differences in quality are quite frankly astounding. Today, we expect our special effects to be better than they were then, and the CG in the new trilogy looks considerably worse than the old-school physical models in nearly every instance. What's worse, the effects from a blockbuster film (star wars) don't even eclipse the relatively low-budget sci-fi of today, which is what makes the difference.
Also, and not to start a flame war, but look at the LotR trilogy. It uses much more advanced CG in a lot of places, but it's so painstakenly integrated with the live action and minatures that it's hard to tell what's what and seems completely immersive. The new star wars lacks that attention to detail, and so it suffers for it.
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yeah, LotR did it's job almost perfictly, there are only a few places were I don't think things were as good as they could be done.
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Well I suppose it's not really something that can be argued rationally. All I can say is, I find the effects in the new Star Wars movies very impressive, especially the planetary landscapes. I could watch the footage of Coruscant forever-- it's just breathtaking to me.
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ALL the tickets for the 12pm showing are sold out...! @#$@#$@ So I am taking my brother and his friends to see teh 6:30 showing... In the AM!
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Originally posted by Ford Prefect
The new Star Wars movies are making no heavier use of special effects than the originals, relative to the respective times in which they were made. I'm sure people in the 1970s saw the originals and grumbled about overuse of special effects. Besides, I don't know about any of you, but I'll take CG over puppets any time.
Nobody grumbled about the special effects of the originals because they were not only amazingly realistic, but they didn't become the whole freaking reason to make the movies in the first place. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Ford Prefect
As for becoming attached to characters, I think that's a rather personal thing. I actually find it easier to get emotionally involved in the new movies because I can look at what's happening and feel the dread of knowing how it's going to play out.
Well then I'm glad at least one person on the planet did.
Originally posted by Ford Prefect
Acting? I'm sorry, you can whine all you want about Anakin, but Mark Hamill's acting wasn't fit for my school drama club.
You know, I really don't know why everyone bashes M.H.'s acting. Yeah, he's whiny, overworked farmboy, but guess what. That's who Luke is! :rolleyes: Mark Hamill's performance was great acting in my eyes because he was believable - not once did I think of him as an actor shooting scene after scene, like I did with almost every character in Ep's I & II (with the exception of Anakin's mother). Mark/Luke came across as a real person, with all his flaws and broken dreams bundled into one unhappy, then devestated and vengeful, and finally one wise and learned character.
Anakin was just a caracter played by an actor. So was Mace Windu. So was Padme. So was Obi-Wan (in the new movies). Qui-Gon was okay for the most part. Bobba Fett was laughable. And Yoda? Freaking bouncy ball. *barf*
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< 12:10.
Re: Naboo Fighters: They are "royal fighters" from a planet that seems to be really into it's image / royal family / the whole "regal" feel. I wouldn't be suprised if the rational for them being perfect is that they were maintained to be. It's not that farfetched an idea.
Not that I like how they look.
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Originally posted by Ford Prefect
Acting? I'm sorry, you can whine all you want about Anakin, but Mark Hamill's acting wasn't fit for my school drama club.
I don't know, he did a pretty good job portraying The Joker.
Originally posted by Sandwich
You know, I really don't know why everyone bashes M.H.'s acting. Yeah, he's whiny, overworked farmboy, but guess what. That's who Luke is! Mark Hamill's performance was great acting in my eyes because he was believable - not once did I think of him as an actor shooting scene after scene, like I did with almost every character in Ep's I & II (with the exception of Anakin's mother). Mark/Luke came across as a real person, with all his flaws and broken dreams bundled into one unhappy, then devestated and vengeful, and finally one wise and learned character.
I thought that one part where Anakin goes berserk on the sandpeople was well portrayed. I found that scene to be very disturbing, and I really think that was the intended reaction. I heard Lucas told Hayden Christensen to hold everything back until Revenge, so if that's any indication of what happens to him, there's going to be quite a show this time. It might even be better than Empire, but that's saying a lot.
I do find something lacking in the prequel trilogy, and I think it's the chemistry between the cast.
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I just absolutely HATE the new movies. Episode 1 was childish, shiny **** a'la Disney. That really did it for me. After that, I really didn't bother with the second one, and I'm certainly not going to watch the third one either. For the love of God, Lucas should keep his ****ing hands off of the original trilogy! :mad: Fortunately I still have the original movies on VHS, without any needless "upgrades".
Uggh, now I'm depressed. :sigh:
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Well, I won't say the movies weren't without their good bits, the duel of the fates in Ep1, and some of the droid battle in Ep2, but then they went and ruined it with, Anakin Skywalker and his accidental taking out of the Trade Driod controller in Ep1, or Yodas 'Green Beachball of Death' in Ep2.
I just found I couldn't link with the characters like I could in the original set, Han was a scruffy-looking Nerf-Herder, Luke was a naive farm boy thrown into a universe he hardly knew existed, I just don't get the same depth from the current characters, Obi-Wan is pretty well done, admittely, but then, in all Honesty, when you have someone like Alec Guiness to model yourself on, it's hard not to be a good character ;)
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Episode 2 just screened on the TV a couple of nights ago... reminding me just how bad some of the acting is in parts. :ick: I still enjoyed the movie for its fights and effects, though. I'll see episode 3 soon... lightsaber fights rock!
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Originally posted by Andreas
Episode 1 was childish, shiny **** a'la Disney. That really did it for me. After that, I really didn't bother with the second one, and I'm certainly not going to watch the third one either.
For what it's worth, Lucas was trying to depict the SW universe before the fall of the Republic and the rise of the Empire. It's supposed to be all shiny and clean. And from what I hear, that gets turned on its head in Ep3 - they're saying it's VERY dark.
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Finally, someone that understands. Sandwich hit the mark. That's what I was saying. You guys should read up on film. It's really interesting all the elements that going into one and how they can be used to convey a message.
This one is going to rock. I love dark movies, but not too dark. :yes: Batman Returns is a perfect example of too dark.
Originally posted by Setekh
Episode 2 just screened on the TV a couple of nights ago... reminding me just how bad some of the acting is in parts. :ick: I still enjoyed the movie for its fights and effects, though. I'll see episode 3 soon... lightsaber fights rock!
One thing I think we all love. :) I think George got the idea for lightsabers and the Jedi/Sith thing mostly from the legend of the samurai/martial arts. If you watch them, their styles definitely look like martial arts, and the saber kind of resembles a katana, never noticed that before. Watching them fight is like watching ballet or some beautiful dance, not as clumsy or random as a blaster. :p
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Originally posted by EtherShock
Finally, someone that understands. Sandwich hit the mark. That's what I was saying. You guys should read up on film. It's really interesting all the elements that going into one and how they can be used to convey a message.
Oh, don't get me wrong - I think that Episodes 1 & 2 are among the worst bits of film to emerge from Hollywood in a long time, excluding certain parts here and there. Their shiny is utterly CG-shiny, which is bad. I was just saying that I understood why they went in the general "shiny" direction to begin with. :p
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Oh, I wasn't saying they were great.
I'm not too familar with CG like you renderers, so I don't really notice that stuff, but with a little experience I could.
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I like the CG...the models always looked fake to me. But I understand the problems with both.
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Well, 3 hours and 25 minutes till I see the Israeli premiere of Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith. I'm excited; I rewatched Attack of the Clones yesterday with a couple of friends who had never seen it. We haven't laughed that hard in ages. I believe the most common utterance was "Oh my gosh, SOOOO bad!".
I can't imagine how Numero Tres can be any worse.
Oh, did I mention I'm seeing it with 14 other people, and that we have the whole center section of the very rearmost row in the theater (yes, you get assigned seating here...)? This is gonna be fun. :D
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I could be in the cinema right now, watching that movie. Could someone please jump back in time for like two weeks and remind me to get some tickets? :rolleyes:
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MUHAHAHAH! I HAVE SEEN IT!!!!
Generally speaking, it's much improved over I and II. So much so that it compares to the original trilogy, although it does have some quite weak parts, which the original trilogy lack entirely (IMO). If I is a 2, II is a 3, and 4-6 are in the 8-10 range, then this is a 6.5 or 7.
The following is truly a spoiler; you have been warned:
One major inconsistancy I noticed is that, according to Leia in ROTJ, she remembers her mother being very kind and beautiful. But since Padme dies right after childbirth, this becomes impossible.
Additionally, what's the deal with Obi-Wan being told to get in touch with Qui-Gon towards the end? Is this the first time the Jedi become aware that dead Jedi can communicate with the rest of the Jedi? It just seemed to me to be a very tacked-on bit, something Lucas just threw in there at the last moment because it hadn't been touched upon at all until that point. Bleh.
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Damn you and your "timezones..."
*pouts*
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I would've seen it like 10 hours ago if I didn't have to work :(
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*avoids spoilers*
I'm not ruining this one for myself. Gonna see it Friday or Saturday and know as little as possible going in.
REQUEST: please please please guys after you see it use spoiler tags for plot stuff!!
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OH MY GOD ANAKIN IS DARTH VADER!!!!!
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:lol:
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Thanks Bob. :p
But I meant for bits of it that we don't necessarily know already. Like whatever Sandie put in spoiler tags.
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For those who cannot go to the movie and see it, there´s a screener floating around with great quality. The only "if" is a time clock on the top of the screen. Since i won´t be able to catch it on the cinema, i´ll have to get this.
From what i´ve seen, this episode is the ONE!! Can´t miss it.
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Just got back from the theater... now theres this nasty taste in my mouth. Sigh
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I find your lack of plot disturbing Master Lucas. u_u
Originally posted by Sandwich
One major inconsistancy I noticed is that, according to Leia in ROTJ, she remembers her mother being very kind and beautiful. But since Padme dies right after childbirth, this becomes impossible.
Leia was talking about her adoptive mother. She couldn't have possbily known Padme, since she died right after giving birth.
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Uh, oh...
Sounds bad...
*wonders if he should swear off the new stuff and stick to his *original edition* VHS tapes of 4-6*
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that movie was A-W-E-S-O-M-E!!!
i can't fault one thing with the movie... they covered EVERYTHING; a SEAMLESS transition between Ep III and EP IV... beautiful movie.
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and the saber kind of resembles a katana, never noticed that before.
(http://cheapnovelty.com/lightsaber.JPG)(http://www.gcaq.ca/galerie/Jean-Rock/katana.jpg)
you're right... striking resemblance.
i always thought the lightsaber reminded me of a banana though... what do you think?
(http://5aday.gov/tools/assets/photos/banana.jpg)
j/k ;)
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Originally posted by Stealth
that movie was A-W-E-S-O-M-E!!!
i can't fault one thing with the movie... they covered EVERYTHING; a SEAMLESS transition between Ep III and EP IV... beautiful movie.
I've had my doubts about you in the past, but... you're being sarcastic, right? Like... seriously.
God I hope you are kidding.
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Also: Anyone else get a Bush = Palpatine sans lightning insinuation?
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Yeah, you and all of the media.
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Except the fact Lucas wrote the plot before Bush was even sober.
I thought Ep3 was awesome, even if I did get home at 4.30 am as a result of it. They dealt with every issue, left no loose ends and even answered a very big question regarding Obi-Wan.
I assume we all noticed Yoda's comments in the last scene with him and Obi-Wan about training, and talking to QuiGon? This obviously explains ObiWan's power in Ep4 and why he allowed Vader to "kill" him.
Of course, the best scene was when Yoda just casually tossed the emperors guards out the way!
Oh, and I wasn't expecting the immolation scene to be as graphic - but it was very effective!
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Going to see it tommorow. Hopefully after that, I never have to see another Star Wars Logo again...
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
I've had my doubts about you in the past, but... you're being sarcastic, right? Like... seriously.
God I hope you are kidding.
no, kid, i'm actually not... but typical of you to think a great movie sucked just to be "different"...
i think they tied up every loose end i could think of. i can't think of anything that existed in Ep. IV, that wasn't explained in Ep. III... so if you can think of a few, please let me know.
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Originally posted by Stealth
(http://cheapnovelty.com/lightsaber.JPG)(http://www.gcaq.ca/galerie/Jean-Rock/katana.jpg)
you're right... striking resemblance.
i always thought the lightsaber reminded me of a banana though... what do you think?
(http://5aday.gov/tools/assets/photos/banana.jpg)
j/k ;)
Even more like the ones without the hand guards (their absence I don't understand on some katana. Maybe only the best of the best weilded those.) If sabers could have a tassel on the end, they could be like a jian (tai chi sword).
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The Republic fell because they had never heard of Cesarean section. Enough said.
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Originally posted by Stealth
no, kid, i'm actually not... but typical of you to think a great movie sucked just to be "different"...
i think they tied up every loose end i could think of. i can't think of anything that existed in Ep. IV, that wasn't explained in Ep. III... so if you can think of a few, please let me know.
Well, kid, for starters
Originally said by Luke and Leia in RotJ
Luke: Do you remember your mother? Your birth mother?
Leia: Only a little, I was very young at the time. She was very kind, but sad. Luke, why are you asking me these things? (Or something to that effect)
Luke: I have no memory of my real mother....
'Typical' of you to arrogantly like the movie just because they drew a bunch of arrows as to where things go for Episode IV. Whee! Look! It's Tantive IV! And hey, there's Chewbacca for no reason, other than he gives Yoda a piggy back ride. Grr! Me angry Vader! Me Mad at death of Padme'! Arrrgghhh!!! Oh, hey Obi-wan, by the way, Qui-Gon isn't really "dead" per se. He says "hey" and he knows how you can join the force after death. It's not something all Jedi learn, just Qui-Gon (And some how Anakin). He'll teach you while you're doing nothing for 18 years in your new house on Tatooine! wooot!
AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
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Originally posted by vyper
Except the fact Lucas wrote the plot before Bush was even sober.
That has nothing to do with last minute additions, acting, etc. I'm not saying he was directly trying to link the two, just sort of parodying W a bit, if anything.
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
'Typical' of you to arrogantly like the movie just because they drew a bunch of arrows as to where things go for Episode IV. Whee! Look! It's Tantive IV! And hey, there's Chewbacca for no reason, other than he gives Yoda a piggy back ride. Grr! Me angry Vader! Me Mad at death of Padme'! Arrrgghhh!!! Oh, hey Obi-wan, by the way, Qui-Gon isn't really "dead" per se. He says "hey" and he knows how you can join the force after death. It's not something all Jedi learn, just Qui-Gon (And some how Anakin). He'll teach you while you're doing nothing for 18 years in your new house on Tatooine! wooot!
AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Oh, please tell me it's not that bad...
That was really my biggest fear with this movie; like the last, I have feared that Lucas would try too hard to "connect" the two trilogies in strange, stupid, and unnatural ways. The Antilles reference in Ep. I was subtile and worked, the silly introduction of R2 and C3P0 did not (who do those driods belong to anyway? They seem to drift from character to character without reason or explanation, they're just always there). Episode 2 was less redeeming for its stupid giant arrows to the old trilogy; Janga/Bobba Fett were most notable there but the subtility was gone. And now, as far as I can tell, Lucas may just as well have hung a huge banner up in front of the screen at the premier saying "A New Hope goes here!." I don't like being spoon-fed my conclusions in any form, but most especially by someone as arrogant as to assume the only way to make the new movie good is to make it remind you what you liked about the old one. I'll see Ep III eventually, but I absolutely refuse to rush out to see it for any reason whatsoever.
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Oh yeah, that's another thing. Captain Antilles gets like, four seconds of screen time. I think Bail Organa says his name twice.
Urgh.
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So, I take it's in the same level as the other two movies (ie.not worth wasting my time)?
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That's one thing that got me, why was Organa just leisurly pulling up to the Jedi Temple? It would have made more sense if they had had a scene or two in the previous 2 that showed him in counsel with Yoda or Mace.(who died like a lightweight....:mad: )
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Originally posted by Styxx
The Republic fell because they had never heard of Cesarean section. Enough said.
Padme was fine. She died because of a broken heart. So says the bot and obi.
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Originally posted by EtherShock
Leia was talking about her adoptive mother. She couldn't have possbily known Padme, since she died right after giving birth.
Erm, no, she was talking about her biological mother. *rewatches scene to be sure*
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Originally posted by übermetroid
Padme was fine. She died because of a broken heart. So says the bot and obi.
Doesn't matter. She had a "broken heart" because Anakin didn't think of asking her to have a C-section under anesthetics instead of natural birth (which would immediately invalidate his vision, since she was awake and in pain in it), and went and turned to the dark side to try to learn some obscure technique which might or might not have helped.
:p
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i liked it, im not gonna nitpick, no movie can ever completly satisfy everyone
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Please use spoiler tags. Someone might read this that doesn't want to know what happens, unless everyone in this thread plans on seeing it today.
Originally posted by Knight Templar
Originally said by Luke and Leia in RotJ
Luke: Do you remember your mother? Your birth mother?
Leia: Only a little, I was very young at the time. She was very kind, but sad. Luke, why are you asking me these things? (Or something to that effect)
Luke: I have no memory of my real mother....
I don't recall him saying "birth mother," but now I remember him saying "your real mother," so I guess this is true, but it doesn't make sense, because Leia didn't truly know Luke was her brother until that scene.
Nah, she died of a broken heart. The scene when she is broken was well done imo. She loved Anakin dearly. It makes sense. It's a romanticization. I'm disappointed with how they made Anakin this emo kid. Palpatine didn't have to put any effort into turning him at all.
Originally posted by Liberator
That's one thing that got me, why was Organa just leisurly pulling up to the Jedi Temple? It would have made more sense if they had had a scene or two in the previous 2 that showed him in counsel with Yoda or Mace.(who died like a lightweight.... )
I agree, maybe he was out doing something though? They could've spent 15 seconds to show that Bail was out for a drive or whatever he was doing, when he saw an explosion or smoke billowing from the Jedi Temple. Mace is the only Jedi to die by Palpatine's force lightning. No one else can claim that. He does put up a fight. He requested he not "go out like a punk." Maybe there was something even worse in mind for him before. I would've liked to see him fight Anakin though. That would've been awesome.
None of this makes up for absence of plot though. >.< Maybe we're all just reading into this too much?
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If you come into a thread titled "the mother all Star Wars threads" after Ep.III comes out, anything spoiled for you is really your own fault.
Originally posted by Andreas
So, I take it's in the same level as the other two movies (ie.not worth wasting my time)?
Hell, I thought the first two prequels were constructed better than this one. Well... maybe not Ep. II.
Originally posted by Liberator
That's one thing that got me, why was Organa just leisurly pulling up to the Jedi Temple? It would have made more sense if they had had a scene or two in the previous 2 that showed him in counsel with Yoda or Mace.(who died like a lightweight....:mad: )
- Uhh, did you miss all the fire comming out of the temple? For any leader, that's generally a cause for alarm.
- Lightweight? The only thing that sucked about his scene was that he kept talking instead of killing the Chancellor. If he didn't narrate what he was about to do instead of doing it, he could have killed him. Talking, then letting Palpatine talk killed him.
Originally posted by EtherShock
I don't recall him saying "birth mother," but now I remember him saying "your real mother," so I guess this is true, but it doesn't make sense, because Leia didn't truly know Luke was her brother until that scene.
Well aside from the fact that she said in that scene that "she knew... somehow she always knew" (which I think we can assume to be the Force / a gut feeling) the only part that doesn't make sense is the twins comming out and Padme dying right away. Say, if Padme went into exile, and only took one child for some reason, it would explain things a bit better.
[/spoiler....]
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What I'm saying is that if any Jedi was going to die of dismemberment, it should've been Mace and the other guy should have been gravely wounded.
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Petulant, nitpicking, spoiled brats. You can't even come up with a real reason to hate the movie. "I don't like it because, you know, Vaders screams "NOOOOO." Ruined the whole movie for me" or "Chewbacca was in it for no reason. THATS SO STUPID. THIS MOVIE SUCKS!"
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How the **** did Windu die like a lightweight? He wasn't "narrating," he was trying to make up his mind while Anakin through moral curveballs at him. Then Anakin slices off his hand. In retrospect, it was more Anakin than Sidious who killed him.
And Lib, Goddamn, did you watch the damn movie? Cutting off an arm generally counts as a form of dismemberment, and Sidious WAS seriously wounded. Or does Windu Permanently scarring him with his own lightning not count?
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
Well, kid, for starters
... for starters, remember you're 3 years younger than me...
'Typical' of you to arrogantly like the movie just because they drew a bunch of arrows as to where things go for Episode IV.
two things...
1) look up the definition of "arrogant", because you've used completely out of its context...
2) i didn't say the only reason i liked EPIII was because they left nothing hanging... i just said i liked how they tied up all the loose ends... something i was hoping they'd do.
Whee! Look! It's Tantive IV! And hey, there's Chewbacca for no reason, other than he gives Yoda a piggy back ride. Grr! Me angry Vader! Me Mad at death of Padme'! Arrrgghhh!!! Oh, hey Obi-wan, by the way, Qui-Gon isn't really "dead" per se. He says "hey" and he knows how you can join the force after death. It's not something all Jedi learn, just Qui-Gon (And some how Anakin). He'll teach you while you're doing nothing for 18 years in your new house on Tatooine! wooot!
AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
you've got to be the biggest dumass i know...
either way, i think it was easily the best of the three, despite all the expectations they were working against. overall, i give it a 10/10; as the best movie i've seen so far this year by a long-shot
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Originally posted by Jetmech Jr.
And Lib, Goddamn, did you watch the damn movie? Cutting off an arm generally counts as a form of dismemberment, and Sidious WAS seriously wounded. Or does Windu Permanently scarring him with his own lightning not count?[/spoiler] [/B]
All the literature points to the 'deformation' coming as part of using your dark side powers too much - I think that was the idea as Anakin's eyes became yellower as he did more damage.
Was Windu stronger than Palpatine, or was the whole defeat thing engineered to bring Anakin over to the dark side once and for all? And was Darth Plagus Palpatine's old master, since General Grievous seemed to be powered by that heart and lungs, something that the 'power to create life' would be needed for?
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I wouldn't say he was wounded, but he was essentially disarmed and defeated for the most part.
Originally posted by SadisticSid
All the literature points to the 'deformation' coming as part of using your dark side powers too much - I think that was the idea as Anakin's eyes became yellower as he did more damage.
Was Windu stronger than Palpatine, or was the whole defeat thing engineered to bring Anakin over to the dark side once and for all? And was Darth Plagus Palpatine's old master, since General Grievous seemed to be powered by that heart and lungs, something that the 'power to create life' would be needed for?
For all we know the he could've been lying about that. The Sith use deception all the time. I wouldn't be surprised if that was a crock of bull&^$%. Grevious could've been created in a similar manner as Vader was.
I think Palpatine used the force to maintain his image, but when he was fending of Mace, all his energy went into the lightning, revealing his true image. Mace has about to open a can of whoop ass on Wrinkles there, but as usual, the good guy has to lecture the villain when he or she is on the brink of defeat.
Anakin had a struggle with what was good and what was evil. The Jedi have a strict code of how things are done, and when he saw that the Jedi were going against it, he had no idea whose side to take--for a minute. Then he realized the only way he could save Padme was by turning to the darkside, or so he thought. Remember, he would've killed Palpatine himself if it wasn't against the Jedi code that he obeyed, for the most part. He certainly broke it in other ways (Padme) but upheld it otherwise. This is could also be blatant symbolism for religion or other agendas.
The movie does get back to the original Star Wars formula however, which I must commend Lucas for.
You know, I'm actually appreciating it more now that I'm able to discuss it with people that have seen it already.
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Just saw it tonight. All I have to say is, if you don't like this movie, you are wrong.
I have an erection from the sheer awesomeness of this film. I have to watch it again. Holy $h!t I don't know where to start.
More rational and/or substantial contributions may follow. I can't gather my thoughts now.
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Originally posted by SadisticSid
All the literature points to the 'deformation' coming as part of using your dark side powers too much - I think that was the idea as Anakin's eyes became yellower as he did more damage.
Actually...No.
ROTS: Visual dictionary. There's a Picture of Sidious with a bit of subtext saying "disfigured by Sith Lightning."
Was Windu stronger than Palpatine, or was the whole defeat thing engineered to bring Anakin over to the dark side once and for all? And was Darth Plagus Palpatine's old master, since General Grievous seemed to be powered by that heart and lungs, something that the 'power to create life' would be needed for?
A bit of both, IMO. Windu had Palpatine beaten for the most part, but then Palpatine switched things around and played the "Old man, HELP ME PLZ!" routine on Anakin. And it worked.
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Was Windu stronger than Palpatine, or was the whole defeat thing engineered to bring Anakin over to the dark side once and for all? And was Darth Plagus Palpatine's old master, since General Grievous seemed to be powered by that heart and lungs, something that the 'power to create life' would be needed for?
From what i've read and seen in the movies, Mace Windu was always respected to be one of the baddest lightsaber fighters around... i.e. remember: "a knowledge of the force like Master Yoda, and a knowledge of the lightsaber like Master Windu"... i think he was known to be one of, if not the best lightsaber fighter at the time.
I also was thinking that perhaps Plagus was Palpatine's master, and Palpatine killed him... cause he seemed to know quite a bit about the 'legend'
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Originally posted by Ford Prefect
I have an erection from the sheer awesomeness of this film.
:eek2: :wtf: :blah:
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i thought palpatine learnt everything he could about the dark force's life stuff from plagus and then killed him in his sleep- didn't he say that?
ah, but how cool was yoda's fight with palpatine!!! *bounce bounce slam schzooschzooooommmmm bounce schzooommmm bounce!*
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Originally posted by EtherShock
I think Palpatine used the force to maintain his image, but when he was fending of Mace, all his energy went into the lightning, revealing his true image. Mace has about to open a can of whoop ass on Wrinkles there, but as usual, the good guy has to lecture the villain when he or she is on the brink of defeat.
I thought it was pretty well established that the metal thingy around the window resulted in him shocking himself. After the initial disfigurement, when he was on the defensive, he didn't seem to have any trouble with zapping people right and left.
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KT, Stealth, and Jetmech: Shut up right now with the personal insults and jabs, or you will be monkeyed or banned.
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I wanted to post some stuff on another forum set, but they wouldn't let me post, so here are my posts (I liked them enough to copy-paste :p)
In response to the younglings scene
I thought it was done perfectly. The kids naturally turned to Anakin for guidance, since they saw him as one of them - quite a few probably looked up to him, too - and then he ignites his lightsaber. You know what he was going to do, just not how exactly it happened...which makes it all the more creepy.
My only complaint is that the rest of the film trivialized it. Obi-wan watches six videos or so lasting about a half-second each, then talks as though he'd seen something horrible lasting over a long time. Then they're repeatedly called "younglings" not "jedi children"; it just seemed that the unfamiliar word insulated what he'd done.
I don't think leaving it completely up to the imagination would've helped, there was far too much in the film that that was done for.
In response to a 'what does it take to satisfy you people' thread
IMHO, Episode 3 wasn't all that great.
It was good, but there was just too much that seemed like a quick fix to tie the PT up with the OT. There was a lot in the movie, but there never really seemed to be any depth behind it. Reasons, yes. Depth, no. I feel like the majority of the story happened OS, and Ep3 was basically a slideshow of the major parts.
Ex: Palpatine announces the Galactic Empire. Why would any political body cheer about its own near-spontaneous dismantling and reorganization? Why did everyone accept the 'Jedi are traitors' line after the Jedi saved Palpatine's life? Those could've been solved with politicking on Palpatine's part, but none of that is seen or even hinted at. The same goes for Anakin's turn to the Dark side. "Oh god, I just killed a Jedi Master...I've done something horrible...but hey, Mr.Sith, I'll do anything you ask - like slaughter every other Jedi."
In the end, I have to say that the single most memorable sequence in the film was when the Jedi died and got wiped out.
Grievous seemed unneccessary, too. Taking him out would've let GL put in some more explanation and depth and spread out the OT references. He would've been fearsome, except he coughed a lot.
All in all, there were a lot of parts in the movie that I felt like I would've cared, if it had been done differently, but didn't care in its current incarnation.
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Originally posted by Sandwich
KT, Stealth, and Jetmech: Shut up right now with the personal insults and jabs, or you will be monkeyed or banned.
yeah with all due respect, it was him that started...but OK
it just pisses me off that he can say the movie sucks, for the reasons he gave... because i thought it was a great movie
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Originally posted by Stealth
it just pisses me off that he can say the movie sucks, for the reasons he gave... because i thought it was a great movie
Essentially the same here, but fine. I'll lay off about it.
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Originally posted by WMCoolmon
I wanted to post some stuff on another forum set, but they wouldn't let me post, so here are my posts (I liked them enough to copy-paste :p)
In response to the younglings scene
I thought it was done perfectly. The kids naturally turned to Anakin for guidance, since they saw him as one of them - quite a few probably looked up to him, too - and then he ignites his lightsaber. You know what he was going to do, just not how exactly it happened...which makes it all the more creepy.
My only complaint is that the rest of the film trivialized it. Obi-wan watches six videos or so lasting about a half-second each, then talks as though he'd seen something horrible lasting over a long time. Then they're repeatedly called "younglings" not "jedi children"; it just seemed that the unfamiliar word insulated what he'd done.
I don't think leaving it completely up to the imagination would've helped, there was far too much in the film that that was done for.
In response to a 'what does it take to satisfy you people' thread
IMHO, Episode 3 wasn't all that great.
It was good, but there was just too much that seemed like a quick fix to tie the PT up with the OT. There was a lot in the movie, but there never really seemed to be any depth behind it. Reasons, yes. Depth, no. I feel like the majority of the story happened OS, and Ep3 was basically a slideshow of the major parts.
Ex: Palpatine announces the Galactic Empire. Why would any political body cheer about its own near-spontaneous dismantling and reorganization? Why did everyone accept the 'Jedi are traitors' line after the Jedi saved Palpatine's life? Those could've been solved with politicking on Palpatine's part, but none of that is seen or even hinted at. The same goes for Anakin's turn to the Dark side. "Oh god, I just killed a Jedi Master...I've done something horrible...but hey, Mr.Sith, I'll do anything you ask - like slaughter every other Jedi."
In the end, I have to say that the single most memorable sequence in the film was when the Jedi died and got wiped out.
Grievous seemed unneccessary, too. Taking him out would've let GL put in some more explanation and depth and spread out the OT references. He would've been fearsome, except he coughed a lot.
All in all, there were a lot of parts in the movie that I felt like I would've cared, if it had been done differently, but didn't care in its current incarnation.
I agree, some scenes were very well done, like the younglings, the extermination of the Jedi, Anakin's choice not to kill Palpatine and then his choice to save him, and a few others, but the movie as a whole left me unfulfilled. I didn't find much plot. It's just like George told you exactly what was going to happen (most of which we knew) for the most part, without going any deeper. I was really disappointed that Dooku was trivialized. He was so awesome in AOTC. No one could beat him. He didn't seem to put up much of a fight this time, unless Anakin had become that much more powerful.
I heard Grievous was a badass in the Clone Wars cartoon, but he didn't seem that tough in the movie. The coughing and wheezing played a huge part in my first impression of him and made him seem like a joke. He sounded like he had been smoking his whole life. I only saw the first few episodes of the first season, so I don't know what happened, and please don't spoil it.
Dooku said in Ep 2 that the senate was under the control of a Sith lord, so I figure that Palpatine was manipulating them with the Force. It's a little far-fetched though. Could one person deceive that many people with the Force alone? He would've had to do some major BS'ing and campaigning I think to fool practically all of them.
I'd have to see the scene where Obi-Wan watches the security hologram again. Maybe it was just like all the pieces of the puzzle came together finally and they were overwhelming. Remember, the Jedi are trained to control their feelings, but if they should've emphasized that more in the PT if they wanted that effect. I didn't feel "younglings" had an effect on that scene, but it definitely could've been better. There were a lot of things that could've been. I didn't find myself getting the kind of reactions from scenes like I should've for the most part, even the epic final duel didn't capture my emotions like it most definitely should have. Well, I get to see it one more time, so maybe I will like the movie better.
I guess George thought what was shown were the most important parts. In general, it was a good movie. Most people will love it. As a Star Wars movie, it didn't live up to the name. Good it was not. If the OT DVD has told us anything, he doesn't give a damn what the people think, which is important in art, but always the audience must you keep in mind, long as one you have.
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It seems like a lot of the things Lucas threw in was just stuff to fangasam over, and it seems no one bit.
There was one thing that I thought was great that was thrown in. The Millenium Falcon, or atleast a YT-1300 transport. That's right, it's in there. In the scene where Obi-Wan and Anikin are heading to get greeted by the politicians, in the shot of the transport sweeping in and landing you can see the Falcon come in from the lower-right part of the shot. I liked that. Also, the scene where the four troops on the walkers come in and say 'All these wookies are dead' or whatever apears to be Delta Squad from the game. Not quite sure on that one though.
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Originally posted by EtherShock
I heard Grievous was a badass in the Clone Wars cartoon, but he didn't seem that tough in the movie. The coughing and wheezing played a huge part in my first impression of him and made him seem like a joke. He sounded like he had been smoking his whole life. I only saw the first few episodes of the first season, so I don't know what happened, and please don't spoil it.
You were supposed to have watched the Clone Wars for a first impression of Grievous. That's kinda why Lucas & Co. asked the Makers of the miniseries to include him in the last episode :/ So, who's fault is this again? :p
Dooku said in Ep 2 that the senate was under the control of a Sith lord, so I figure that Palpatine was manipulating them with the Force. It's a little far-fetched though. Could one person deceive that many people with the Force alone? He would've had to do some major BS'ing and campaigning I think to fool practically all of them.
...:wtf:.
He didn't use the force. Palpatine was a naturally Charismatic, and seemingly sympathetic politician. In a time of war, he was chosen to serve as a leader, and was given some serious executive power. THATS how he gained control. Through politics and deception.
I guess George thought what was shown were the most important parts. In general, it was a good movie. Most people will love it. As a Star Wars movie, it didn't live up to the name. Good it was not. If the OT DVD has told us anything, he doesn't give a damn what the people think, which is important in art, but always the audience must you keep in mind, long as one you have.
As a Star Wars movie, I think this was a simply fantastic piece of work. Restored my faith in Mister Lucas Completely.
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Originally posted by EtherShock
I agree, some scenes were very well done, like the younglings, the extermination of the Jedi, Anakin's choice not to kill Palpatine and then his choice to save him, and a few others, but the movie as a whole left me unfulfilled. I didn't find much plot....
....I didn't feel "younglings" had an effect on that scene, but it definitely could've been better. There were a lot of things that could've been. I didn't find myself getting the kind of reactions from scenes like I should've for the most part, even the epic final duel didn't capture my emotions like it most definitely should have.
*agrees 101%*
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Originally posted by Jetmech Jr.
You were supposed to have watched the Clone Wars for a first impression of Grievous. That's kinda why Lucas & Co. asked the Makers of the miniseries to include him in the last episode :/ So, who's fault is this again? :p
Lucas'. I was lucky enough to see the Clone Wars episode where Grievous got pwned by Mace, but that was just sloppy storytelling IMHO. (I actually thought that when Grievous came on and started hacking away) If that was supposed to be because of damage sustained from Mace Windu, and not the common cold, it should've been referenced in the movie.
...:wtf:.
He didn't use the force. Palpatine was a naturally Charismatic, and seemingly sympathetic politician. In a time of war, he was chosen to serve as a leader, and was given some serious executive power. THATS how he gained control. Through politics and deception.
I never saw the kind of charisma needed to make thousands of senators completely forget their own interests and wildly support this new and completely unknown galactic empire. These are people who have probably spent a good deal of the past years building up power within the current system; they are not going to abandon that so readily.
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Originally posted by WMCoolmon
Lucas'. I was lucky enough to see the Clone Wars episode where Grievous got pwned by Mace, but that was just sloppy storytelling IMHO. (I actually thought that when Grievous came on and started hacking away) If that was supposed to be because of damage sustained from Mace Windu, and not the common cold, it should've been referenced in the movie.
So you want to pick and choose what official material you use, then blame/fault the movie for not explaining everything? :/
I never saw the kind of charisma needed to make thousands of senators completely forget their own interests and wildly support this new and completely unknown galactic empire. These are people who have probably spent a good deal of the past years building up power within the current system; they are not going to abandon that so readily.
If they believed the formation of an Empire under Palpatine was in their own interests, however...and even if they didn't want to give up whatever power they supposedly had, what would they do? Sidious had total control of Coruscant and the Clone army.
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Originally posted by Jetmech Jr.
So you want to pick and choose what official material you use, then blame/fault the movie for not explaining everything? :/
No, I'm going by Lucas' official stance here; the movies are apart from the EU. So it shouldn't be necessary to watch an EU series to understand the movie series.
I suppose there's a bit of a parallel between DV and GG. The difference is, Grievous' cough wasn't used to the same effect as Vader's breathing, and only made him less fearsome instead of more. (But here's a question - if Grievous coughs, why the hell didn't he suffocate in space?)
If they believed the formation of an Empire under Palpatine was in their own interests, however...and even if they didn't want to give up whatever power they supposedly had, what would they do? Sidious had total control of Coruscant and the Clone army.
"Say it, don't spray it." I saw no evidence that anybody was afraid; in fact the movie seemed to suggest otherwise. Padme/Organa and co. seemed concerned and bitter, everyone else seemed happy. Neither did I see any sign that they would think it was in their best interests.
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Originally posted by WMCoolmon
I never saw the kind of charisma needed to make thousands of senators completely forget their own interests and wildly support this new and completely unknown galactic empire. These are people who have probably spent a good deal of the past years building up power within the current system; they are not going to abandon that so readily.
I don't think they thought they would lose all their power changing from a democracy. Remember, at the beginning of Ep IV, the senate was finally dissolved. It took Palpatine 20-something years to achieve that after changing to an Empire.
Also, I must say that the humor at the begining of the movie was much, much better than in Ep1 and 2. Though it kind of gave an impression of a comedy. Special FX were great, though the scene where Obi-wan gets thrown against the wall by Dooku looked completely fake to me. Also, the scene where Vader breaks out of his restraints after his 'surgery', reminded me quite strongly of a Frankenstein remake :p
Other than that, I was quite pleased. Definately better than Ep1 and 2 regardless of the lack of depth in the storyline. I still prefer the OT though.
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Some of you guys are nitpicking this too much. I went in to the movie to have a good time, and I sure as hell did. This movie was awesome, there's really no other way to put it. On par with ROTJ/ESTB IMO.
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I just saw the movie, and I loved the action. The only problem is that the characters have to actually talk. I went to see this with three friends, and at the end when Vader went "NOOOO" we actually cracked up laughing, it was so horrible. The entire movie was stunted by this horrific acting and overuse of special effects (for God's sake - the BABIES, when you first see them, are DIGITAL!).
Adwight: It's not really on par with those in my opinion. Those movies were very well rounded: action/acting, etc, these movies were just special effects bonanzas.
It was a nice action-packed sci-fi movie, but I wouldn't look any deeper than that.
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Originally posted by Unknown Target
The entire movie was stunted by this horrific acting and overuse of special effects (for God's sake - the BABIES, when you first see them, are DIGITAL!).
You think that's bad? Look at the credits: Peter Mayhew appears there. He is the actor who played Chewie in the original trilogy; for him to be credited means that he played Chewie in this movie, too. But did anyone for a microsecond think that Chewie - or any Wookie, for that matter - was anything but CG? Even Lucas's real live stuff looks CG! Ridiculous! :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by DragonClaw
Also, the scene where Vader breaks out of his restraints after his 'surgery', reminded me quite strongly of a Frankenstein remake :p
I think that was a tribute to Frankenstein. Lucas must've been a big fan. It was still cheesy though. That's the only way I can justify it.
Originally posted by adwight
On par with ROTJ/ESTB IMO.
I disagree, but you're entitled to your opinion. I will have to watch this multiple times before I come to my final conclusion, so I guess I'll have to wait for the DVD.
Originally posted by Unknown Target
I went to see this with three friends, and at the end when Vader went "NOOOO" we actually cracked up laughing, it was so horrible.
I certainly agree it was, but I think it has to do with it being the death of Anakin. He wasn't Vader to me. He was Anakin in the black suit on the brink. After that, gone he was, completely consumed by Darth Vader. All this for the love he tried to save, but killed her by doing so. Well, most of it. There's the power and stuff too.
It probably would've been more believable before he was put into the walking iron lung, but I guess he did the best he could with that scene. It must've been really hard to write, so I give the writers credit for what they did.
I can't even figure out how I would do it. Maybe a voiceover as thoughts between him and Sidious before he's put into the suit or Sidious reading his thoughts/feelings and then responding, kind of like how Vader did with Luke in ROTJ. Yeah, I think that's how I'd do it. Of course, then you have the people that would say, "Wouldn't he be in too much pain to focus on anything?" Screw them, the effect is better. :) This was just Lucas's way of telling the story, everyone has their own, not necessarily better, not necessarily worse.
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Originally posted by Sandwich
You think that's bad? Look at the credits: Peter Mayhew appears there. He is the actor who played Chewie in the original trilogy; for him to be credited means that he played Chewie in this movie, too. But did anyone for a microsecond think that Chewie - or any Wookie, for that matter - was anything but CG? Even Lucas's real live stuff looks CG! Ridiculous! :rolleyes:
:wtf: Okay, not for a minute did I think the wookies were CGI.
:rolleyes:
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I thought most of them were CG.
And about Vader: I could've written that scene better myself. At the very least I wouldn't have had the audience laughing over it.
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They should have just had him yelling, not saying nooooooooo!
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They should have had him struggling against the restraints, yelling "No...no....it's not true! I didn't hurt her! I love her! You're lying!"
And have Palpatine get shot backwards, things swirl, etc.
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I finally saw it!! I thought it was pretty good over all. At least there's closure now. And I liked it! I think the original trilogy is still better but it was much better than the first two pieces of crap.
My biggest problem plotwise was how Obi-Wan knew about Leia. I keep thinking of the scene in ESB when Luke leaved Degobah and Obi-Wan says "That boy is our last hope..." and Yoda responds "No... there is another." I can't imagine that Obi-Wan forgot about Leia, so what's the deal?
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I think the implication was that Obi Wan didn't believe there was any chance of Leia becoming a Jedi.
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Probably something like that.
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I just saw it for the second time, and I really thought it was better than the first time. You go in the 2nd time looking for all of the faults and things that people talk about, but they really don't bug you, and the love scenes, which are usually gay, are actually bearable and not completely cheesy, except for the love competition. Go out and watch it a 2nd time.
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and the saber kind of resembles a katana, never noticed that before.
Well, yeah. Ever notice how Anakin also had a little samurai-style pony-tail on his head in Episode II? The Jedi and fighting style were based primarily off of samurai duels and samurai movies.
Additionally, what's the deal with Obi-Wan being told to get in touch with Qui-Gon towards the end? Is this the first time the Jedi become aware that dead Jedi can communicate with the rest of the Jedi? It just seemed to me to be a very tacked-on bit, something Lucas just threw in there at the last moment because it hadn't been touched upon at all until that point. Bleh.
Remember Empire Strikes Back and Jedi? Obi-Wan contacted Luke from "beyond the grave" several times then. That must be want he meant by becoming "more powerful than you can possibly imagine".
I never saw the kind of charisma needed to make thousands of senators completely forget their own interests and wildly support this new and completely unknown galactic empire.
He didn't need charisma. He needed a war, and a war is what he got. It's a major historical reference here: a civilization in danger needs leadership; when Rome was attacked, they would give a man supreme power until the crisis was resolved (Cincinnatus, per se). As soon as the Clone Wars started, Palpatine used it as an excuse to gain supreme power over the Senate.
The entire movie was stunted by this horrific acting and overuse of special effects (for God's sake - the BABIES, when you first see them, are DIGITAL!).
The special effects were overdone in these movies, I'll agree. It didn't have the same beauty as pre-Special Edition IV-V-VI, where every ship/ATAT/gun was a model and every stormtrooper was an extra.
Special effects=ouch.
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Originally posted by nuclear1
Well, yeah. Ever notice how Anakin also had a little samurai-style pony-tail on his head in Episode II? The Jedi and fighting style were based primarily off of samurai duels and samurai movies.
It looked like a braid to me. Obi-Wan had it as a padawan too. Yes, samurai had short pony tails or buns. I guess that's where George got that from.
I know Ray Park's (Darth Maul) moves were clearly martial arts. He's a martial artist. I saw him do some sick moves on TV when Phantom Menace came out.
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Wow... I put on ANH after my 3rd viewing of EP3. I got whole new spin on a particular scene. When C3PO and R2 enter the cantina and the bartender said
"We don't serve their kind here!! Your DROIDS, we don't want them here!!!"
The bigotry against droids really stand out now and it makes sense. Droids must have realy got a bad rap from the actions of the battle droids of the Clone Wars.
Very cool.
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Yeah, that's what I was thinking - explains why the rebels don't use fighting droids, either. (And why all the droids with guns are in seedy places - ie the deck of a Super Star Destroyer).
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I saw the movie, too:
EXCELLENT! MARVELOUS! AMAZING! I can list all the positive adjectives, but I omit to do it, because it makes no sense. The battle scenes were very good, I really enjoyed the fast-moving and fast-handed Jedi. In the field of battle-scenes, EpIII is the best of all Star Wars movies, it even beats the Execution Arena scene of Episode II and the Battle of Endor in Episode VI.
It truly answers all the questions we might have. I still wonder why Naboo was not even mentioned in later films, games or novels that are played later in the SW timeline.
Still about Naboo: From the film, it becomes obvious that the homeworld of both Luke and Leia IS Naboo, not Tatooine for him or Aldeeran for her. I don't know why this little piece should bother anyone.
There were some humourous lines for Obi-Wan, which I appreciate. Even its the darkest of all Star Wars films, humour is needed. It is to be mentioned that when Obi-wan said those lines, he knew nothing about the happenings in the close-future.
What I did not like in the film that the Jedi got killed TOO easily. Kit Fist could fend off two parries and he died. Ki-Adi Mundi defended at most four laser bolts and the fifth hit him. Secure Aayla was the easiest target. What's the strangest is that the little child to attacked some Clone troopers to defend Bail Organa killed more troopers and fended more laser shots than the three already mentioned Jedi combined.
The scene where Palpatine attacked the four Jedi was very odd. Two of the Jedi could not even fend off a single parry, Kit Fisto got killed too easily, too. Why on Earth did not Palpatine stop attacking Windu with Force Lightnings when he saw Windu can fend those bolts with the saber? This was very illogical. How Windu died was a moment I did not like either. Such a great Jedi deserves a more honourful death, everything is better than simply flying out of the window.
The Death Star thing in the end also makes me thing: Why did Lucas change the 'old canon' timeline. Originally, the Death Star's construction was started eight years before the Battle of Yavin at Despayre(If I remember correctly).
On the whole, I am not dissapointed in the film as much as I can see you guys are, of the pre-Trilogy episodes, this is definitely the best.
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The film was a positive suprise for me too.
However I still think it's not on pair with the OT - the reason is the murderous pacing from roughly 1/2 of the movie - during the exposition and the setup of the turnover the slow pace, the dialogue after dialogue is fine, serves a purpose and goes with the flow of the film.
The end is also well excecuted, though Vader's "NOOOO!" is way over the top - him screaming in agony would have been better, but alas that still passes.
What ticked me off was in the later half of the film - the hunt for Griveous, after the epic duel, during the duel there was way too much autopilot - scenes that are marvelous but beside showing nice scenery serve no whatsoever purpose. Moreover the whole editing felt amateurish compared to the OT - here comes a dueling scene, now a battle scene, now comes a talking scene, now an angry scene, now a grumbling scene, now an emo puppy-love snene.....the film hadn't had that "flow to it".
I don't say ROTS is a bad movie per se, it just could have been a lot better if it was better integrated.
Also what truely hurt me was Lucas seems to have run out of ideas - or doesn't have the courage to cross the borders he earlier set.
The whole dialog after the initial exposition between Kenobi and Anakin was flat - though that's not the right word. It was fitting, good; but I still felt a lot more could have been said - they throw insults at each other and simply put both of them are OUT OF CHARACTER of a Jedi or an ex-Jedi turned Sith.
For me it would have felt a lot more fufilling if instead mere threats and the obvious paraphrasing over who has more power would have been livened up with them pointing out the "true" problems with the other's ideology. (Jedi are insensitive, overltly high-handed, Sith are self-serving). Some of it was said, but I still found the dialog somewhat lacking.
Also the whole disposition of Jedi was disturbing - they broke their own code, and instead going into a little philosophical discussion to explain why and what made it necessary to do - which made KOTOR and KOTOR II an all time classic for me - , they merely throw bland phrases about following tradition and force Anakin to give into authority - which is exactly what a Jedi shouldn't be doing, a Jedi must be a knight of justice, and no ammount of authority grants justice, quite the contrary justice gives one authority to act - and go on doing their self-serving deeds (or more precisly in accordance with their "superior" idea of justice a lot of what the Sith do are valid, and Palpantine with all his megalomania is still a reforming figure).
Never the less in visuals we're given the damn best looking SW film to date.
The action is good - especially when Kenobi is on screen, though Yoda is also a lot better than in Ep.2.
At last as TopAce put it so well: humour is back.
The whole syrupy love is toned down to more manageable levels, though it still irks me.
For all its bad pacing I think the story is excelent - though my gripes about the "missing" dialogue renders it merly 'good' in my eye.
All in all if not the best or an excelent ground braking movie (visuals aside) it's one of those movies that you can fondly remember and watch again and again.
*The soldiers who were escoring the Jedi masters were the 'best' and top of the line. They were the elite - the same genetic code doesn't mean identical personality or abilities, you can think of the clones as a damn big family of twins - troops and its not suprising they manage to bag the jedies that fast. (Remember KOTOR II? Atton explains it very well why the Jedi are so valnurable in some aspects.)
**The same can't be said about the garrison troops who invade the Jedi temple.
***The reason why Palpantice kept Windu under lightning is that the lightning was the only thing that kept Windu's saber at bay - it's not portrayed that well, but Windu had to push with all his strengh to keep his ground.
****The Death Star we see at the end of the film may be the prototype. (I don't know the English name of the place in Hungarian it was 'Bednõ'). Then again I could be wrong about this one.
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@Flaser:
Bednõ
:wtf:
Soha nem hallottam.
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Originally posted by TopAce
@Flaser:
:wtf:
Soha nem hallottam.
Opps
*Bendő
BTW it's the Maw in English.
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The Death Star was built at the Maw Installation, wasn't it?
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No, it was built in orbit around the moon of Despayre; the prototype was built at the Maw, however.
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^ Yes that's it. Maw Installation.
By the way, Despayre was destroyed by the Death Star right after its comstruction completed.
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It had Wookiee laborers too. :p
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Really? The Empire hates aliens. Now, I know why the blew it up.
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Well, now that explains why we see the Death Star at the end. Yes, the Empire hated aliens, but they especially loved Wookies for slave labor. You think they had independent contractors too? :)
Originally posted by Omniscaper
Wow... I put on ANH after my 3rd viewing of EP3. I got whole new spin on a particular scene. When C3PO and R2 enter the cantina and the bartender said
"We don't serve their kind here!! Your DROIDS, we don't want them here!!!"
The bigotry against droids really stand out now and it makes sense. Droids must have realy got a bad rap from the actions of the battle droids of the Clone Wars.
Very cool.
Interesting observation, but what would they serve droids in the cantina anyway, power cells? :p
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Bender units need alcohol to function.
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LOL
And dont forget cigars and hookers.
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The alchohol is the fuel, though. The others are just additives.
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just saw it, i was rather impressed. it was alot better than I and II. i whish they had shown more of the masked vader. but none the less it tied up a bunch of loose ends. i kinda expected to see more wookie warefare. from the prieview i thought there would be more. i had also whished there was more fighter combat, which made episodes 4 and 6 kick ass.
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(http://members.aol.com/htelectra/yoda3.gif)
edit: umm... did this line bug anybody else? "Join me, Padme and together we can rule this galaxy!"
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that was but one of the many cleche phrases in the movie.
btw who the **** is darth nihilus?
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The Villain in KotOR II, I suppose(I haven't played it, though)
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Actually, on the droid point - Droids are the slave race of the Republic (yes, Republic). Think about it - for the most part Droids do the hardest, nastiest tasks that no biological creature wants. Obviously there are still rich and poor humanoids/-oids, but the droids are the lowest of the low. They are essentially sentient but treated as property.
It is in fact the perfect solution to capitalism's labour problems. The need for cheap, slave labour vs. the evolution of more humane sensebilities.
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And droids have no battle morale or loyalty.
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but robots would be comunicateing directlly (silently) with each other, none of this "roger roger" or hand signal crap.
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What really irked me about the droids was the fact that they kept saying "excuse me" every time they bumped in to someone. And not the sissy protocol droids either, I'm talking about the "battle-hardened" battle droids.
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I'd put this Ep3 over all other Star Wars movies. I don't really like any of the other SW movies. Most of them are crappy.
I think they should remake all of them and turn them into action films such as this one.
Anyone else notice the lack of any fancy lightsaber weilders?
Nearly all were single bladed weilders...
Personal Highlights:
- Vadar walking into the youngster Jedi training room. :lol:
Most Cliche moment in movie: (from completely serious to absolutly hilarious I might add)
- "Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!" ROFL.
Still, fairly entertaining movie. Might enjoy seeing this one again. ;)
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Originally posted by Grug
...
Anyone else notice the lack of any fancy lightsaber weilders?
Nearly all were single bladed weilders...
....
All of them were single bladed wielders, because it's Star Wars the classic. Period.
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Star Wars 4-6 was a story with Lightsabres and spacebattles in it, Episodes 1-3, I can't help thinking, have been a lightsabre/space battle, with a story thrown in.
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I was really disappointed by the space battle in this one. I was hoping for something much more extensive and Endorish. Instead it consisted of just a few minutes of chaotic backgrounds in which you didn't know what ships were on which side and Anakin bumping his fighter into Obi-Wan's in an attempt to kill the little bug droid things.
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The prequel episodes were rather about Jedi and wardroids than fighters and capital ships.
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it was something that i missed, starwars pioneered the concept of space fighters, it was sad to see them not used as much. they seemed to just show sceens of fighting but didnt show the use of any strategy. it wasnt like the battle of hoth which i must say is still the best ground battle of star wars. i did like the part where they triied landing that criuser, that was kinda funny.
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I hated the lightsaber battles in this. Literally, all it was was close up shots of their faces and the backs of their heads, as they made funny expressions and moved their lightsaber literally only up and down. Excepting Obi Wan and Anakin's fight, it was mostly just up-down-up-down-up-down.
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I feel they should have looked back to the original origins of the storyline of the original film for battle planning. Kurosawa had some of the best fight scenes I've ever seen...
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On the droid point, the reason the droids are "oppressed" is because they are the creations of the Human(oids). They exist to serve. We we would be the same way had be been given sentience by more advanced aliens.
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Originally posted by Nuke
that was but one of the many cleche phrases in the movie.
btw who the **** is darth nihilus?
You had to ask...
(http://www.gamebanshee.com/screenshots/starwarskotorii/conceptart/screenshot9.jpg)
[SIZE=32]DARTH NIHILUS!!!111[/SIZE]
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That still doesn't answer the question of who he is.
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He is the Lord of Hunger, the absence of life, a wound in the Force. Born of the horrors of Malachor V.
(How's that for a vague Jedi-esque answer? :p)
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With that spacebattle at the beginning...its begging of a new TIE Fighter series. Even the Star Destroyers had beam weapons! W00t!
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I found Darth Nihilus pretty crappy.
You see him like twice throughout the game, the second time where you actually fight him.
By then your already over level 20 and you smite his ass into the ground. The only build up to him was Kreia's dialog and Visas Mar.
He's pretty pathetic really.
Now had he actually consumed Telos in front of you... that would of been nasty.
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At level 20 in KOTOR2 you can smite anything into the ground. It's the idea behind the character that counts, especially since as the Exile you have a definate unfair advantage over Nihilus. ...your being the one thing in the galaxy severed from the Force, so he can't feed on you.
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*makes note to pick up KOTOR2 sooner rather than later*
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Originally posted by Grug
I'd put this Ep3 over all other Star Wars movies. I don't really like any of the other SW movies. Most of them are crappy.
I think they should remake all of them and turn them into action films such as this one.
This is exactly why this movie sucked.
Hell, it failed at being a full action movie. Anyone notice how the Battle of Coruscant just sort of dissappeared after Anakin lands the glowing red - turned steamy ship on the ever so convenient, yet questionable landing strip. (for all the space cruisers that taxi on wheels...) Opens the door, Obi Wan tells him he's a hero, he chills with the politicians... no more Battle of Coruscant!
Seems it dissappeared along with any hope for a solid movie.
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Heh. Good point.
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indeed. that fight would have been alot better if there was just more fighter combat. perhaps fading away to the brige of one of the command ships they say something tactical, then communicate with obi wan and anikin. id have like to seen them bomb a couple of those ships before crash diving into the fighter bay. im suprised obi wan didnt use the force to do away with his bug problem. jedi can pick up rocks and such why not stupid robo bugs. then when they finally did away with the bugs it drifts off of the wing as if theres drag in space. one could argue he accelerated but it did not apear to do so. but it wouldnt be the first violation of the laws of physics in a movie.
as for the thing with darth nihilus, i dont like the name they chose for the character, nihilisim isint about negitive value, its about the absence of value. which doesnt really fit in with the dark side. put it this way, you can use a single variable to determine good and bad with 0 being the line between them, nihilisim rejects that variable's existance. associating nihilisim with the dark siide violates the purpose of nihilisim.
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Originally posted by Nuke
it was something that i missed, starwars pioneered the concept of space fighters, it was sad to see them not used as much. they seemed to just show sceens of fighting but didnt show the use of any strategy....
Strategy? That word cannot be found in the Jedi Archives. Such word does not exist. :rolleyes:
That said, I have to agree that we cannot see anyone thinking in that battle, except for the two Jedi who decide to land on Grievous' ship and rescue Palpatine.
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
...
Hell, it failed at being a full action movie. Anyone notice how the Battle of Coruscant just sort of dissappeared after Anakin lands the glowing red - turned steamy ship on the ever so convenient, yet questionable landing strip. (for all the space cruisers that taxi on wheels...) Opens the door, Obi Wan tells him he's a hero, he chills with the politicians... no more Battle of Coruscant!
Seems it dissappeared along with any hope for a solid movie.
There was no more time available for that scene. A lot of questions were still needed to be answered and way too many events had to be shown.
[EDIT]Sorry, I forgot to cut/paste this post into my previous one.
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Originally posted by Nuke
as for the thing with darth nihilus, i dont like the name they chose for the character, nihilisim isint about negitive value, its about the absence of value. which doesnt really fit in with the dark side. put it this way, you can use a single variable to determine good and bad with 0 being the line between them, nihilisim rejects that variable's existance. associating nihilisim with the dark siide violates the purpose of nihilisim.
Not if you use the definition "a revolutionary doctrine that advocates destruction of the social system for its own sake" for Nihilus, in which case it's quite apt; his purpose was the destruction of life.
Or the literal definition of "belief in nothing", which can be used to identify the concept of a character who places no value on life whatsoever, an effective black hole whose purpose is simply to destroy life.
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You didn't quite get the character.
Nihilus doesn't give **** about anything. If he were to live he would have shallowed *everything*.
His existance was about swallowing/destroying everything - and in the end all that would have been left is: nothing.
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Ep 3 was this year's bomb. And I don't mean 'da bomb' either.
The battles were chaotic messes, the acting was lousy, the actual story was flimsy.. I shan't continue.
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Originally posted by Nuke
it was something that i missed, starwars pioneered the concept of space fighters, it was sad to see them not used as much. they seemed to just show sceens of fighting but didnt show the use of any strategy....
I call bull****. :p
Buck Rogers had spacefighters long before star wars did.
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Originally posted by Flaser
Nihilus doesn't give **** about anything. If he were to live he would have shallowed *everything*.
His existance was about swallowing/destroying everything - and in the end all that would have been left is: nothing.
Which is why he's my new personal Star Wars hero. Other than HK-47 that is... ;)
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HK == Set us up the BOMB!!!
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What did you just say, meatbag?
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I said HK-47 is T3H B0MBZ0R5!!!!!111111
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HK-47: Is this the meatbag, meatbag?
Revan: Yeah, the one talking in 1337.
*HK-47 kills Liberator.
HK-47: Assasination successful, meatbag.
Grey Wolf: Here, Revan. Your payment for the kill.
*Grey Wolf tosses Revan a six-pack of Bosch Beer and a bag of Spacecrack
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Originally posted by TopAce
There was no more time available for that scene. A lot of questions were still needed to be answered and way too many events had to be shown.
My point exactly. Just because it is the final Star Wars doesn't exempt it from the requirements of an at least solid movie. If you need time to answer questions, try making the movie longer, or better yet, answer the questions in a more concise and accurate manner. Cutting things off and assuming the audience will assume portions of your story doesn't make a good movie by a long shot, regardless of its heritage.
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I don't know why, but Lucas did not want the movie to exceed a two-hour playtime. Don't ask why, I don't agree with this either. Let's accept it as it is.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Not if you use the definition "a revolutionary doctrine that advocates destruction of the social system for its own sake" for Nihilus, in which case it's quite apt; his purpose was the destruction of life.
Or the literal definition of "belief in nothing", which can be used to identify the concept of a character who places no value on life whatsoever, an effective black hole whose purpose is simply to destroy life.
but that is the sterotypical definition of nihilisim which is quite often misrepresented as negative. thats like saying all christians burn pagans, and kill jews.
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
This is exactly why this movie sucked.
Hell, it failed at being a full action movie. Anyone notice how the Battle of Coruscant just sort of dissappeared after Anakin lands the glowing red - turned steamy ship on the ever so convenient, yet questionable landing strip. (for all the space cruisers that taxi on wheels...) Opens the door, Obi Wan tells him he's a hero, he chills with the politicians... no more Battle of Coruscant!
Seems it dissappeared along with any hope for a solid movie.
Well, one would have to guess that with the destruction of General Grievious' ship and the sudden arrival of more ships with Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker, the tide of the battle turned.
Anyway, the main objective of the Seperatists' attack on Coruscant was to kidnap Palpatine only. Not an invasion of it.
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Ah, but leaving the audience to assume stuff like that looks careless and sloppy, as opposed to most of the questions he did answer, which definitely could've been left up to interpretation.
Originally posted by TopAce
I don't know why, but Lucas did not want the movie to exceed a two-hour playtime. Don't ask why, I don't agree with this either. Let's accept it as it is.
I thought it was 2 1/2 hours long? Sometimes you need to break the constaints of time. It's not like it would've been three hours long.
Originally posted by Knight Templar
Just because it is the final Star Wars doesn't exempt it from the requirements of an at least solid movie. If you need time to answer questions, try making the movie longer, or better yet, answer the questions in a more concise and accurate manner. Cutting things off and assuming the audience will assume portions of your story doesn't make a good movie by a long shot, regardless of its heritage.
:nod:
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Originally posted by Nuke
im suprised obi wan didnt use the force to do away with his bug problem. jedi can pick up rocks and such why not stupid robo bugs.
That would be the path to the dark side...
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Not sure, that's more a case of demolition than murder, depending on your stance regarding Droid Rights ;)
Would have made for a shorter, more boring movie though ;)
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hes not really harming the bugs, just removing them from his hull.
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And anyway, it's self-defense. Same principle applies to when he uses the Force to throw down the Trade Federation droids during the fight scenes in both the first and third movies.
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Originally posted by NeoHunter
Well, one would have to guess that with the destruction of General Grievious' ship and the sudden arrival of more ships with Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker, the tide of the battle turned.
Right, you'd have to guess. But nowhere in the movie did they show more ships comming with Anakin n' Obi, nor did any of the Separatist ships attempt to protect Grievous' ship so much as they were spread out more or less engaging the Republic fleet one on one.
I know the whole point of the battle was to get Anakin in a position to kill Dooku, but that still leaves the fate of all those pawns wide open and unexplained. Just because they are pawns doesn't mean they don't need to be explained either. Was it necesary to the plot to 'finish' the battle? No, not 100%, and that's why it was cut out (and stupid conceptions of time restrictions) but explaining it a bit would have made the movie that much more sensical, and thus, better.
Anyway, the main objective of the Seperatists' attack on Coruscant was to kidnap Palpatine only. Not an invasion of it.
I wouldn't have known that had I not watched the Clone Wars cartoons, which, by the way, were a thousand times better than the prequel series. *shudder*
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Knight Templar, I believe George Lucas did include the fact that Anakin And Obi-Wan rushed back to help defend Coruscant and save the Chancellor right? In the opening scrolling text?
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Beats me. The scroll had me laughing at "WAR!"
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
Beats me. The scroll had me laughing at "WAR!"
Oh yeah! Hahaha...."WAR!". Corny.
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Seriously. Like I couldn't figure it out on my own by watching the last movie, or the opening scene of this one...
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I agree, "War!" was high on the lameness meter.
Originally posted by Knight Templar
I wouldn't have known that had I not watched the Clone Wars cartoons, which, by the way, were a thousand times better than the prequel series. *shudder*
Didn't they explain what was going on in the opening crawl? They were there to "capture" Palpatine and the Jedi got word of this and rushed back to help? I don't remember.
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Yes.
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The entire part with Grievous could've been taken out. Should've been taken out. He was just a filler because Anakin needed to kill Dooku. And eye candy. But personally, I would've preferred a movie that felt more complete to Grievous' silly fighting. At first he seemed cool, then he came off as rather lame as Obi-wan lopped all of his arms off in short order.
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I know, anyone who breaks a window and jumps out into space to escape and kills Jedi for fun is too cool to "go out like a punk."
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Quite disappointing really.
In the animated series of Clone Wars, General Grevious was 1000 tiimes more cool and deadly than the one in Episode 3.
In the animated series, he killedhow many Jedi? 6? Not counting those that he has killed but not mentioned or shown in the animated series.
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Just saw it. Overall I was impressed. There were cheesy parts, but that's no different than the originals.
Am I the only one left with the distinct impression that Darth Plagueous' ability to coax the midochlorians (ugggh) to create life is oddly similar to Anakin's conception?
That Palpatine was *very* eager to see Vader eventually surpass him as Dark Lord of the Sith?
That Palpatine was Plagueous' apprentice?
That Palpatine may in fact be Anakin's father? In the sense that he used the force to create the perfect apprentice? Perhaps manipulating events to allow for things to unfold as they did?
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Unless of course that whole bit was a lie created just in order to get Anakin to turn to the Dark side.
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The truth is always the best lie. Any Sith Lord worth his or her salt knows that :p
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Yes,trying to decern truth from the lie can lead one around in circles if the lie has any truth to it. Probably Anikan was so confused by it all couldn't tell the difference:lol:
As for Grevious,he was still suffering from the encounter with Mace in the cartoon series, if he faced Obi One at 100% health then the outcome might have been different.
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Ace: That's an interesting theory. After the movie though, I don't think I'd give Lucas that much credit. Coincidence, I think.
Re: Grievous: I haven't seen all of the Clone Wars myself, so I don't know why Grievous has a heart and such, or why he was sick (Mace?) but my dad pointing something out actually, that I missed.
He mentioned that he saw Grievous to be a sort of reverse Anakin, in that he thinks that the heart and the eyes meant that he was at one time an actual person at one time, perhaps messed up, beyond even Anakin's threshold.
Of course, then there's me who just thought that he had a heart so as to be able to have an organic brain, allowing him to think on his own more, maybe give him some connection with the Force. Or just to look neat. Either way, he was way pansy compared to what Clone Wars eps I've seen.
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so whats the word on plans for episodes 7, 8, and 9. they better hurry before harrison ford retires.
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^CANCELED!
AFAIK
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
Beats me. The scroll had me laughing at "WAR!"
Why bash this film for every single flaw you can find? What's so special in this 'WAR!'? It rather explained the situation in one word than in a long and customary 'The Galaxy has once again been burning of the horrors of war' sentence.
Originally posted by Nuke
so whats the word on plans for episodes 7, 8, and 9. they better hurry before harrison ford retires.
Harrison Ford is too old to become Han Solo again. Not to talk about Carry Fischer or Mark Hamill.
New actors would be needed, but Lucas does not want to make the Thrawn trilogy with new actors.
Originally posted by Ace
Just saw it. Overall I was impressed. There were cheesy parts, but that's no different than the originals.
Am I the only one left with the distinct impression that Darth Plagueous' ability to coax the midochlorians (ugggh) to create life is oddly similar to Anakin's conception?
That Palpatine was *very* eager to see Vader eventually surpass him as Dark Lord of the Sith?
That Palpatine was Plagueous' apprentice?
That Palpatine may in fact be Anakin's father? In the sense that he used the force to create the perfect apprentice? Perhaps manipulating events to allow for things to unfold as they did?
Wait until the film comes out on VHS, too. As soon as it happens, the official databank at www.starwars.com will be updated.
Originally posted by NeoHunter
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In the animated series of Clone Wars, General Grevious was 1000 tiimes more cool and deadly than the one in Episode 3.
In the animated series, he killedhow many Jedi? 6? Not counting those that he has killed but not mentioned or shown in the animated series.
It's because it was a cartoon. Episode III, on the other hand, is a film.
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i can see mark hamil and harrison ford, just set the movie a few decades down the road. but Carry Fischer needs to loose some weight :D
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Maybe Carry Fischer can be the fat slug that gets strangled to death this time round... :p
Harrison Ford isn't old enough to miss out on one last Indiana Jones Movie it would seem...
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Originally posted by Ace
Just saw it. Overall I was impressed. There were cheesy parts, but that's no different than the originals.
Am I the only one left with the distinct impression that Darth Plagueous' ability to coax the midochlorians (ugggh) to create life is oddly similar to Anakin's conception?
That Palpatine was *very* eager to see Vader eventually surpass him as Dark Lord of the Sith?
That Palpatine was Plagueous' apprentice?
That Palpatine may in fact be Anakin's father? In the sense that he used the force to create the perfect apprentice? Perhaps manipulating events to allow for things to unfold as they did?
You're not the only one that's come to this conclusion.
It makes sense, but that would require immense planning and manipulation. This means he would've had to made Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, and Padme land on Tatooine and find young Skywalker (which they did) but I don't think it was cause of him. I don't think that's possible. There's just far too many variables that come into play. I don't think Palpatine could've manipulated everything as it unfolded. Also, Palpatine said that the midichlorians could be stimulated to sustain life, I think, not create life. I don't remember exactly.
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Plain and simple - Palpatine lied to bring Anakin to his side. He told him what he wanted to hear - a way to save Padme...
but there was none...no ressurections..
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Originally posted by EtherShock
You're not the only one that's come to this conclusion.
It makes sense, but that would require immense planning and manipulation. This means he would've had to made Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, and Padme land on Tatooine and find young Skywalker (which they did) but I don't think it was cause of him. I don't think that's possible. There's just far too many variables that come into play. I don't think Palpatine could've manipulated everything as it unfolded. Also, Palpatine said that the midichlorians could be stimulated to sustain life, I think, not create life. I don't remember exactly.
Palpatine did explicitly say "create life" so it's pretty obvious that he's implying that either he or his former master were responsible for Anikin's conception. In fact, I thought the reference was not subtile enough, and that the forced connections again made the whole thing feel forced.
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perhaps the whole thing was a grand plan and naboo was not just some random planet that was chosen to be the impetus for the whole thing...i mean Naboo was close enough to tattooine to travel in a relatively short period of time on conventional drives.
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Naboo was also Senator Palpatine's, well, planet. More likely Tattooine wasn't some random desert planet to be involved in the plot, but one carefully chosen by its location.
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Originally posted by TopAce
Why bash this film for every single flaw you can find? What's so special in this 'WAR!'? It rather explained the situation in one word than in a long and customary 'The Galaxy has once again been burning of the horrors of war' sentence.
WAR! is very blunt compared to something such as:
The galaxy is in the throes of the Clone Wars. There are heroes on both sides of this great conflict, but evil is everywhere.
Originally posted by StratComm
Naboo was also Senator Palpatine's, well, planet. More likely Tattooine wasn't some random desert planet to be involved in the plot, but one carefully chosen by its location.
Yup. Because remember in Star Wars there is no cooincidence. More then likely Palpy's motives were influenced by the force, making the prophecy self-fulfilling.
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Originally posted by Nuke
but that is the sterotypical definition of nihilisim which is quite often misrepresented as negative. thats like saying all christians burn pagans, and kill jews.
It's also the/a dictionary definition.
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Originally posted by Ace
WAR! is very blunt compared to something such as:
The galaxy is in the throes of the Clone Wars. There are heroes on both sides of this great conflict, but evil is everywhere.
...
Very well. We will never be able to convice each other. It's only a matter of opinion. I stop discussing this. It is not worth continouing.
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hi, loooong time lurker, long time FS player (back to the old FS1 multiplayer days, even)
anyway, regarding the WAR! thing, when I first saw it I was reminded of this:
clicky (http://www.stickingittotheman.com/images/history/dec_pearlharbor.jpg)
Perhaps GL was trying to reference that... the SW movies do get their inspiration from stuff from the 40's and 50's... serials and whatnot.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
It's also the/a dictionary definition.
dictionary definitions can be just as biased as anything. if you compair an old dictionary to a new one you see that not all definitions are the same.
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Huh, interesting parallel there.
(somebody roll out the welcome wagon!)
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All batteries... target mister J. Open fire!
:welcome:
Welcome to HLP!
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Originally posted by Nuke
dictionary definitions can be just as biased as anything. if you compair an old dictionary to a new one you see that not all definitions are the same.
You can't pick and choose definitions based on your own preference, though.
As a legitimate definition of the word 'nihilism', it can be used with reference to a relation with the naming of Darth Nihilus. you wanted a possible reason for the connotation, there it is.
Incidentally, anyone read the rumours of a 7th Star Wars movie? (rumour is that it'd be set 100 years before Ep.1 and focus on everyones favourite muppet o' doom.... probably complete bollocks, of course).
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If it's by Lucas, I hope not. If it's by Spielberg, or some other director who's not clinging to the "Let's put this in cuz it's cool!" mentality Lucas seems to have used when making the prequel trilogy, then by all means, go for it. :)
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I was just watching a bit of ANH with my brother (starting from the trash compactor scene and ending with the start of the Obi Wan-Vader duel) and I'd just like to say that I think ROTS, while I enjoyed it, does not even come close to capturing the magical feeling that the original trilogy evokes.
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It's a matter of script/acting... I never felt that any of the people in the new trilogy had any of the quirks that make us real, quirks that were found in abundance in the original trilogy. Ironically, Anakin was the one who came the closest to having personality "issues", but his issues were sooo over-scripted and so central to the story that they didn't seem like they were personal.
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Overall, the film leaves you with a sense of sadness. A hero succumbing to the dark side because he is unwilling to let go. Too attached.
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I was sad because it sucked.
:nervous:
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Originally posted by mister J
hi, loooong time lurker, long time FS player (back to the old FS1 multiplayer days, even)
anyway, regarding the WAR! thing, when I first saw it I was reminded of this:
clicky (http://www.stickingittotheman.com/images/history/dec_pearlharbor.jpg)
Perhaps GL was trying to reference that... the SW movies do get their inspiration from stuff from the 40's and 50's... serials and whatnot.
The original is normally considered to be closer to Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hidden_Fortress) than to 40s and 50s SF serials.
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Originally posted by Sandwich
It's a matter of script/acting... I never felt that any of the people in the new trilogy had any of the quirks that make us real, quirks that were found in abundance in the original trilogy. Ironically, Anakin was the one who came the closest to having personality "issues", but his issues were sooo over-scripted and so central to the story that they didn't seem like they were personal.
Overproduced, perhaps.
I have not seen ROTS yet, however (going Sunday; it's cheaper :D), so I have to reserve judgement on that one....
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I liked the movie. ... But I liked the book more.
I hope there is an extended cut of the movie somewhere that fills in all the holes...
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thanks for the welcome :)
The original is normally considered to be closer to Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress than to 40s and 50s SF serials.
that's true... in fact one of the earlier drafts of Lucas script is almost a remake, albeit sci-fi flavored, of the Kurosawa film. Hehe... I was just trying to explain where he could have gotten the WAR! thingy.
The book is nice... for one thing, in that Vader birth scene it captures the emotion better than "nooooo" ever can.
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Originally posted by Grey Wolf
The original is normally considered to be closer to Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hidden_Fortress) than to 40s and 50s SF serials.
I think the prequel trilogy took design inspiration from them (40-50s serials) for the Naboo ships in particular, though.
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Originally posted by mister J
The book is nice... for one thing, in that Vader birth scene it captures the emotion better than "nooooo" ever can.
Are you talking about the movie novelization or the actual book? (Yes, there is a difference to me.)
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the book... I think :p
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First of all, sorry for reviving this thread, but I don't wanna get attacked for starting a new one.
Second of all, <<<>>>SPOILER WARNING!!!!111shiftone<<<>>>
Just saw it last night. I loved it. And I agree with Ace in that Anakin was probably created by Palpatine. The prophecy was that the chosen one would bring balance to the force. It said nothing about the fact that the chosen one might be created by a sith. It makes sense, as Palpatine had the ability to create life from Midi-chlorians, and Anakin had an über high Midi-chlorian count. I recall Qui-Con saying something along the lines of "It is possible that he was concieved of the Midi-Cholrians himself". What Qui Con didn't know is how he was concieved or why he was concieved at the time that he was. The Jedi believed that he was the Chosen One, and didnt think further than that. IMO, It was the Sith who actually fulfilled the prophecy by creating Anakin. Ironic that the Sith's own creation would eventually lead to their own destruction in ROTJ, and even more ironic that it was because of the chosen one's own son. In my opinion, this is what Lucas was aiming for.
On the movie, I think Grievous and especially Dooku were underused. I knew they died quickly to shift the focus to Anakin's predicament, but they really sorta dissapointed me. After AOTC I thought Dooku was gonna kick some serious arse before getting killed in Ep3, but it turns out that he was dealt with rather quickly. I also thought that Greivous would put of more of a fight, having FOUR FREAKING LIGHTSABERS and all.
For those people complaining about the "War!" In the beginning and Vaders cliche "Noooo!", those are really dumb things to complain about. I found the former to be a great introduction and the latter to be quite convincing IMO. If you want to be "cool" and hate the movie so much, than you could at least point out something that actually affected the movie. The acting wasn't top notch on Anakin or Padme's part (eg. "Youre breaking my heart."), but I thought that Palpatine was perfectly acted to be the cold hearted and selfish manipulator he was. I also found that the scenes were put together quite well, so much that I was in tears at the end of the "order 66" sequence, and was utterly shocked when Anakin attacked Windu, which is quite a feat considering I already know whats going to happen. This, along with other reasons, is why I absolutley love this movie minus the Padme-Anakin romance crap. I think that was where the bad acting on their part really showed the most.
After Ep. 1 and 2, I didn't have high expectations coming into this, but I think that Ep 3 is right on par with 4, 5, and 6. Possibly, (I dare say), even better than the Original Trilogy.
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Kappa, I just saw it for the 3rd time and I have to agree with you. The only scene in the movie that really makes me wince is the one with the love competition "I Love You More" "No, I Love You More." Besides that this movie is on par with the original trilogy IMO.
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"It's only because I'm in love..."
"No... it's because I'm so in love with you!"
[Setekh screams and tears his hear out]
After having watched it with a bunch of church friends last Friday, I'm going to say I enjoyed it. I did see a lot wrong with it, as you guys have pointed out, but all in all I was focusing on how it reconnected the prequels to the original series. I feel I appreciate 4, 5 and 6 much more now. I'm going to go rent A New Hope sometime this week and rewatch it. :)
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My favorite scene: when Anakin marched on the Jedi Temple with the legion of clone troops.
My favorite actor: The medical droid when Padme' was giving birth.
By the way, how much do you think a VHS collection of the original three Star Wars tapes, plus an original "Making of Star Wars" would go for nowadays? Considering that they're not made anymore, and Lucas is only selling his "Super deluxe remastered" version? I'm not selling, just curious.
EDIT: And I just rewatched ANH. God, that movie is so much fun, and the actors are so much better than the prequels. They actually feel human, and the jokes they say are for the most part actually funny, not corny one-liners.
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Originally posted by KappaWing
....
[Long winded review]
[-----Spoilers, here, too-----]
If it is really Palpatine who made Anakin, there would be mention of it somewhere, official one, I think. Your theory makes sense, anyway and I pretty much like it. :yes:
As for tears: It is not the Order 66 that almost made me break out it tears: Rather Padme's death and her funeral in the end.
As for acting and romance: I have no problem with these at all. Acting was not bad, in my opinion and the romance added to the movie, made it colourful even in the darkest days of the Republic.
And in what parts is it better than any of the original ones? There are more battle-scenes in this one than in the three subsequent episodes added.
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The acting was stilted and emotionless, and because of that, I felt no attachement to any of the characters. Whether they died or not had no meaning, as to me they were simply 1D people who existed for the sole purpose of carrying the special effects from scene to scene. That's why when Padme died, when the Republic fell, and when Anakin turned, it had no effect, simply because none of them seemed real.
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Though I note you liked the Emperor, Kappa, who happens to be the only transplanted actor from the original films ;)
I still prefer the originals, better story, better acting, and you didn't know what would happen next, you're never left on the edge of your seat when Obi-Wan is being chased through the Asteroids in AOTC, because you know he can't be killed, since he's still alive (and aged by about 40 years) 20 odd years later.
I think it's that knowledge that means that it will always boil down to which was the better-made film, and I still think it was the original movies.
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The main problem with the prequels is a lack of good secondary characters.
Primarily non-Jedi characters who we don't know what their fates will be.
For example, taking a few KOTOR1/2 characters and tossing them in:
Obi-Wan's old friend, Bao-Dur is a tech specialist for the Republic forces. He's the one who builds Anakin's mechanical arm, tags along to give firesupport in many of the battles and in the end is killed by Vader when trying to turn him back to the lightside. There's some exploration of his species and his attempts to keep from succumbing to revenge since his world was destroyed by the Sepratists.
Mira, a bounty hunter, was an old spacing companion of Anakin's (assuming that the prequels would start with him as a 20-30 year old character) who has a romantic interest in him. She has quite a grudge against Jango Fett, and often makes sarcastic remarks about how she's supposed to be the one who was cloned since she could do a better job. Pretty much a "man-izer" who holds her liquor and makes comments about how she'd like to strap stun-cuffs on any man she finds slightly attractive. She winds up dying when saving Obi-Wan from the clone betrayal, holding off a crack squad of Commandos.
Then the Jedi themselves needed some more characterization. Only Yoda and Mace seemed to have some dialog, there wasn't any sense of dynamics in the council.
Toss in Atris from KOTOR2, and then you have massive changes. The chronicler of the archives who has never had a padawan, screams about how Anakin is the doom of the council, is angered that she isn't allowed on the front lines, etc. A character people love to hate, and she jumps at the chance to kill Anakin when he enters the Jedi temple. She is defeated only because in her rage and anger she realizes that she's beating him through the darkside, stops for a moment, and then Anakin starts tossing her around the room, smashing her into pillars, with the force in retribution.
Dooku would have been a good villain, if he was in all three movies. Same with Greivous. Dooku and some of the lost Jedi could have led to some great scenes in Ep 1 and 2, especially if he honestly thought he was fighting the Sith but wound up dipping into the darkside to do it. In the end his attempts to defeat the Sith were what destroyed the Republic. Turn him into a tragic figure, the audience wants him to win and is frustrated at the inflexibility of the Jedi to join him against Plapatine who they believe will step down when the war ends. Have that the Jedi council believes that the Sith were annihilated and that the prophecy refers to Dooku since his actions are like those of a Sith, not realising that the True Sith lie in wait.
Anyway, secondary characters are where you add flavor in such a prequel. People that you don't know what will happen to them, so you can toss in some surprises and tragedy.
Similarly unexpected twists such as Anakin being a model Jedi, leaving the order for his romance (end of Episode I), and then taking on the force again to protect her (Episode II) from the sepratists and the only one willing to teach him is an exiled Jedi like Kreia from KOTOR2. Obi-Wan wants to teach him, but is forbidden by the council. Hell, ripping off KOTOR2 further, the Kreia type character might even be Palpatine's master and she's the one to hints to Anakin about Dooku not being his enemy but the True Sith hiding at the heart of the galaxy.
His using the force to protect a person, not the galaxy, leads him down the path that eventually has him making a pact with Palpy to save his wife.
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Something I pieced together today/yesterday while watching ROTJ:
I'm not sure if Palps was faking getting owned by Windu or not - all the circumstantial evidence points to it, but the scene in ROTJ seems to point against it. In both cases, Palpatine is reliant on Anakin to save him from another lightsabred foe. But in the latter case, whether he could've force-lightning'd Mace harder than he was is really unclear. It seems stupid to force himself into that position - but the situation really did work out great for Palpatine. If he had killed the Jedi all right away, he'd have to explain away (or get rid of) the bodies. He'd have gotten rid of the upper echelons of the temple leadership, but how would he gain from it? Not much, as any attempt to blame the Jedi for rebelling would be much more circumstancial and much less proven.
What I do think should've been done is for Yoda to hide his powers until Episode 3. Mace could've shown up and rescued Anakin and Obi-wan from Dooku. Then in Ep3, the only point where Yoda is really seen using his powers is in the confrontation with Palpatine. That seems to me like it would've been much better...screw making Yoda out into a great warrior beforehand, just make the battle so damn incredible that it's obvious that Yoda had much more mastery of the force than anyone else. It would've worked out much better for both trilogies ("Do not underestimate the powers of the Emperor")
I really wonder at the prequels though. Going by the OT, it seems like there was so much more that could've been done. The films have sound literary themes, have backed-up messages (and realizing that the films are making something of a statement, that I disagree with, I may enjoy them much less now...) but really fall short in the were-they-as-good-as-they-could-have-been dept. (Talking about the prequels here).
The lessons Lucas is tryng to teach in the new films seem very cynical though...there's a jarring difference between the two trilogies. While the OT the characters win out because of their fighting for justice, in the PT Palpatine wins out by lack of emotion and intelligence and manipulation. If Lucas were to do the OT over again, I'm almost certain that DV's character would be weakened and Palpatine's strengthened.
Also, something else that pisses me off, the complaints about the love scene dialogue. How it's worded is very important. Anakin and Padme are not people to be overtly sincere. Both are used to having their guard up - Anakin's a Jedi, Padme's a politician, and both know that they'd be in huge trouble if word of the relationship got out. Neither are they exceptionally witty and creative with words. Nor do they see each other much. They're both in the sort of silly-jokes phase, thinly disguising their fear of rejection.
Not to mention that the dialogue in the OT wasn't much better as far as romance was concerned. :p So I think the language in the PT was intentionally cringe-worthy.
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Also, yeah, some secondary characters would've been nice...especially ones that didn't die, and instead went into hiding or somesuch.
ie a Bao-Dur-like character could be in the whole trilogy, then end up being forced to think that Obi-wan is dead because he's being monitored. Or characters that are pressed into service as attendants on board the Death Star...
In a sense, it was done, but not for any major characters. The younglings, for example. Jar-jar it could've been done with, and I wonder if Lucas originally intended to have Anakin threaten audiences until it came out that everyone hated him anyways. :p
Padme was one such character, except she was major enough to Anakin and the plot in general that she pretty much had to die (or seem to have died).
Mace Windu and the other Masters were almost there, except nobody really got much characterization. We never saw the human side of the Council, so to speak.
Actually, one thing I really have to commend in the PT...the sunset scene at the end of Ep3 was really good. I dunno if it was the placement, the music, or what, but it got me tearing up in the theater, although the audience was somewhat less than completely respectful of the movie.
Ahh, well. I should probably STFU and go to sleep, unless I can figure out some way to work all this into a term paper... :p
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Originally posted by Flipside
....you're never left on the edge of your seat when Obi-Wan is being chased through the Asteroids in AOTC, because you know he can't be killed, since he's still alive (and aged by about 40 years) 20 odd years later.
...
Obi-Wan was sixty years old when Vader slew him on the Death Star.
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Originally posted by TopAce
Obi-Wan was sixty years old when Vader slew him on the Death Star.
Alec Guiness was 63 when the first Star Wars was released. Ewan McGregor was 31 when AOTC (and 34 when ROTS) was released.
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I was not talking of the actor, I was talking of the character.
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And I was talking of the relative age difference between the actors playing the character, which is what Flip was referring to.
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Then I misunderstood the post.
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Originally posted by Flipside
Though I note you liked the Emperor, Kappa, who happens to be the only transplanted actor from the original films ;)
I still prefer the originals, better story, better acting, and you didn't know what would happen next, you're never left on the edge of your seat when Obi-Wan is being chased through the Asteroids in AOTC, because you know he can't be killed, since he's still alive (and aged by about 40 years) 20 odd years later.
I think it's that knowledge that means that it will always boil down to which was the better-made film, and I still think it was the original movies.
The Emperor is my fave cause he scares the crap out of me. Dooku could have been real cool if he didnt die so quickly, and Greivous isn't really convincing at all. But Palpatine... Wow, so twisted, so devoid of caring, and such an intelligent manipulator in Ep. 3 and in Ep. 6. (In ep. 4 and 5 he is usually a brief hologram). IMO, the Palpatine in Ep. 3 is even better acted than the one in Ep. 6. Even his saber fighting style is bizzare and twisted (what's with all the stabs?). He is definatley the deepest and most developed character except for Anakin/Vader IMO.
And If you take the knowing-that-they-will-live consideration into the mix, I would agree with you that the OT is better. I was reviewing as if I watched it in sequence (From Ep.1-6). It's not really fair to consider that IMO, since it gives the OT a waaay unfair advantage. If I never seen the OT, I would be absolutley certain that either Obi-Wan or Anakin would die in that lightsaber fight. Yes, the acting was a bit worse, but Hamill's acting wasn't too flawless either IMO. For someone whose seen the OT already, the suspense is pretty much spoiled.
My final virdict: Ep.3 is better than the Original Trilogy IF AND ONLY IF they are watched in sequence with no prior knowledge of the next film.
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Originally posted by KappaWing
The Emperor is my fave cause he scares the crap out of me. Dooku could have been real cool if he didnt die so quickly, and Greivous isn't really convincing at all. But Palpatine... Wow, so twisted, so devoid of caring, and such an intelligent manipulator in Ep. 3 and in Ep. 6. (In ep. 4 and 5 he is usually a brief hologram). IMO, the Palpatine in Ep. 3 is even better acted than the one in Ep. 6. Even his saber fighting style is bizzare and twisted (what's with all the stabs?). He is definatley the deepest and most developed character except for Anakin/Vader IMO.
And If you take the knowing-that-they-will-live consideration into the mix, I would agree with you that the OT is better. I was reviewing as if I watched it in sequence (From Ep.1-6). It's not really fair to consider that IMO, since it gives the OT a waaay unfair advantage. If I never seen the OT, I would be absolutley certain that either Obi-Wan or Anakin would die in that lightsaber fight. Yes, the acting was a bit worse, but Hamill's acting wasn't too flawless either IMO. For someone whose seen the OT already, the suspense is pretty much spoiled.
My final virdict: Ep.3 is better than the Original Trilogy IF AND ONLY IF they are watched in sequence with no prior knowledge of the next film.
Edit: And as for the better story part, thats simply because there was hardly any freedom to create a decent plot. There was a start, ep2, and there was a radically different finish, ep4. Lucas' ability to join the two far different films together seamlessly AND make a damn good movie to boot IMO makes Ep3 better than the OT.
Edit 2: Oh CRAP I hit quote insead of Edit. :hopping:
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Jeez, Now you're just being ridiculous. Haven't you guys analyzed and argued the films enough yet? :rolleyes:
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LOL People are still arguing about the old series of films, a la weapons power etc, it's like Star Trek, theres a cult out there, we consider ourselves 'higher class' because it's a set of movies instead of TV Series, but we are Warries as much as they are Trekkies. The scariest part is that I am both :nervous:
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There's also the TOS movies, which had some of the bets moments in moviedome out there :p
By the way, did anyone else think Palpatine's facial expressions were horrible? Like when he was fighting Windu, and going "noooo, noooo, youuuu must diiiiiie", his mouth was into this giant O-shape, I thought he was gonna give Mace a BJ :D
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KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!
Sorry, couldn't resist :p
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Trekkies and Warsies, Huh? bleh on both.
An Ent-E would kick an Imperator all over the damn sector though...:p
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Originally posted by Liberator
An Ent-E would kick an Imperator all over the damn sector though...:p
Maybe... but a few hundred Imperators will be a bit tougher opponent ;7
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The Sun Crusher would 0wn them all.
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Or the world devastators:drevil:
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Originally posted by Unknown Target
There's also the TOS movies, which had some of the bets moments in moviedome out there :p
By the way, did anyone else think Palpatine's facial expressions were horrible? Like when he was fighting Windu, and going "noooo, noooo, youuuu must diiiiiie", his mouth was into this giant O-shape, I thought he was gonna give Mace a BJ :D
What's a BJ?
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blow job
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I thought it was Big Jets.
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:lol:
Well, when a man and a woman love each other very much, yet can't afford a condom or pill, they find other ways to express there love for each other... :p
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:rolleyes:
If they had been using pills, Episode IV, V and VI would not have made any sense.
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Which begs to differ, why they didn't use such precautions given the context of their secret romance.
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Anyway, I have acquired some info: The two other Jedi, apart from Kit Fisto and Mace Windu, who were attacked by Palpatine were Agen Kotar (http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/agenkolar/index.html) and Shaesse Tiin (http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/saeseetiin/index.html). Shaesse was the one with the blue sabre, while the one on the side left was Kotar.
They were all the Jedi Masters.
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Yet they die so easily.
Tsk tsk, poorly trained with sabars they were.
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All four of them were present in the Battle of Geonosis, so they must know a thing or two about fencing ;)
Especially Mace Windu.
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Originally posted by Grug
Which begs to differ, why they didn't use such precautions given the context of their secret romance.
Anakin learned the hard way that he shouldn't experiment with Force pushes when using a condom.
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Well... he didn't know it was a glow in the dark condom. That's why they never tell you what Darth Vaders second mechanical implant was ;)
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[color=66ff00]This thread got weird.
*shudders*
[/color]
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very wierd :lol:
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"Would you like to see my lightsaber?"
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"Bzzzzzzzzzzttt."
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*Groans* :rolleyes:
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I think this thread is closer to death than you may think it is.
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:lol:
Originally posted by TopAce
All four of them were present in the Battle of Geonosis, so they must know a thing or two about fencing ;)
Especially Mace Windu.
Mace is the only one who puts up a fight. The first two just stand there and let themselves be cut down. The third dude parry's a few but then gets done in way to easy.
Anakin is such a gullible fool as well. Mastery of the Dark side must rot the brain.
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Originally posted by TopAce
I think this thread is closer to death than you may think it is.
If I turn to the dark side, I might be able to save it. :p
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I think the entire Jedi council was suffering from brain-rot to be honest, Palpatine might as well have been wearing a T-Shirt with the motto 'I am an evil Sith Lord, how may I help you?' for episodes 2 and 3.
I think my one concern is that what Anakin did when he turned to the Dark side is kinda difficult to dissect, since I considered Mace's solution to the problem of the Emperor to be somewhat 'Dark Side' itself. Yet, when Palpatine had told Anakin that Dooku was 'too dangerous to be left alive', Anakin had taken it at face value, but did not apply the same rules to the situation with Mace and Sideous. So, in a strange way, Anakin turned to the Dark Side by actually following the Jedi code.
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In both cases, Anakin hesitated. Anyway, the Jedi Code does not say 'attack the Jedi Master if he wants to kill a Sith Lord'. It does, however, mention to protect the unarmed and defenceless from harm. But this is not valid in that scene, since Palpatine had Force lightning, which is, from any aspect, a weapon.
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Well, so did Dooku, and yes, Anakin hesitated, but he still did it. And when Mace attacked, he was attacking a foe who was, as far as he was concerned, beaten and exhausted and incapable of fighting back any more. Basically, you either apply the Jedi code to everyone, Sith included, or you are not following the Jedi path. I'm not saying Anakin was right to attack when he should have merely blocked the blow, but nonetheless, Mace was not being a good Jedi at that point ;)
Edit : Oh, and Mace himself had said that the council was to decide the Sith's fate when he first confronted him, but obviously decided to kill him anyway.
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He wanted to stop the Sith menace with that. There would have been nothing wrong about it, especially after seeing three of his fellow Jedi befall to Palpatine in a battle.
The way it happened, he did not stop the Sith menace, he started a new era in it.
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Well, there is something wrong with it, though I can understand why he would want to do it, but if it is Dark for Anakin to kill Dooku for revenge for his arm, then it is also wrong for Mace to kill Sideous for revenge for the Jedi.
Look at Kyle Katarn or even Luke Skywalker, they were excellent Jedi, because they would rather try to redeem than destroy, that is more how I imagined the Jedi to be.
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I reckon Yoda's battle was a little poorly ended. Sure Jedi can jump four story's in a single bound, but for some reason they can't survive the fall. =/
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Yea, I didn't understand why Yoda just gave up after that. He fell down and then got right back up, why'd he run?
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Originally posted by Lt.Cannonfodder
Maybe... but a few hundred Imperators will be a bit tougher opponent ;7
www.ditl.org -> Recreation (along bottom) -> Portal (bottom of left nav).
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Originally posted by Flipside
Well, there is something wrong with it, though I can understand why he would want to do it, but if it is Dark for Anakin to kill Dooku for revenge for his arm, then it is also wrong for Mace to kill Sideous for revenge for the Jedi.
....
What revenge are you talking about? Mace could have killed Palpatine to bring peace.
Anyway, Sidious, not Sideous.
Originally posted by Unknown Target
Yea, I didn't understand why Yoda just gave up after that. He fell down and then got right back up, why'd he run?
The fall did hurt :D
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'He wanted to stop the Sith menace with that. There would have been nothing wrong about it, especially after seeing three of his fellow Jedi befall to Palpatine in a battle.'
Your post not mine :)
Oh yes and...
Sodious
Sedious
Sudious
Sadious :P
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And where did I say it would be for revenge?
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Well, that's what it boils down to TopAce, even Mace knew that what he was doing was 'wrong' from a Jedi point of view, yet he still chose to do it because it was the fastest, easiest way of dealing with the problem in front of him. That is the dark side of the force
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Originally posted by Flipside
Well, that's what it boils down to TopAce, even Mace knew that what he was doing was 'wrong' from a Jedi point of view, yet he still chose to do it because it was the fastest, easiest way of dealing with the problem in front of him. That is the dark side of the force
I disagree. It would be much more dangerous and risky to capture Palpatine than to kill him on the spot. Attempting a capture would risk the lives of civillians and other Jedi if he were to somehow escape. Killing him on the spot would negate that risk. And besides, If they brought him in front of the council, they would have simply killed him then anyway. When the Jedi code was written, I don't think the writers had in mind "Do not attack an unarmed dark sith lord who will fry your ass with force lighting if you hesitate few seconds", rather I think the writer was referring to civillian fugitives and bounty hunters and other everyday scum. I think Mace was acting in the light side with his actions because:
1. He WAS armed.
2. He could escape if not killed.
3. Having him escape would endanger the lives of many innocents.
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As I said before, as far as Mace was aware, Sidious was too weak to continue fighting. The first offer Mace made was to pull him in front of the council. If Sidious had agreed, and owned the Courts and the Senate as Mace claimed later on in the same scene, then surely he was far more armed and dangerous there and then, yet the offer was still made.
Mace later decided that the offer did not stand and that Sidious should die. Sidious was in the same condition as Dooku, beaten and weak, I think it was Anakins conversion that restored him at that moment, remember, Jedi and Sith draw their power from the Force around them.
So why should it be evil if Anakin does it to Dooku, and yet fine if Mace does it to Sidious?
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Originally posted by Flipside
As I said before, as far as Mace was aware, Sidious was too weak to continue fighting. The first offer Mace made was to pull him in front of the council. If Sidious had agreed, and owned the Courts and the Senate as Mace claimed later on in the same scene, then surely he was far more armed and dangerous there and then, yet the offer was still made.
Mace later decided that the offer did not stand and that Sidious should die. Sidious was in the same condition as Dooku, beaten and weak, I think it was Anakins conversion that restored him at that moment, remember, Jedi and Sith draw their power from the Force around them.
So why should it be evil if Anakin does it to Dooku, and yet fine if Mace does it to Sidious?
Anakin did it for revenge, and I think Mace did it for safety of the Republic. I think the only reason Mace suggested that was to not sound like a sith himself in front of the other Jedi. And remember, Mace wasen't expecting Palpatine to be as powerful as he was, and his judgement changed to reflect the current situation. He wasen't expecting him to be powerful enough to 3 of his escorts in under half a minute. Windu knew that Palpatine could probably worm his way out of any situation, legally or by other means, and he decided that he was simply too powerful. And he was right, as it didn't take long for Palpatine to recharge his force lighning powers.
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Well, the say they road to Hell is paved with good intentions ;)
It may have been the decision Mace came to, but, as the movie proved it was the wrong one. When Anakin chops off Mace's hand, Palpatine strikes with a cry of 'Unlimited Power!', that's what makes me stop and think that Sidious' power for the second burst of lightning actually came from Anakin, not Sidious himself. Had Anakin not turned on Mace, I don't think the Sith could have done a thing to defend himself at that stage. I still don't consider Maces decision to be wise, or even particuarly 'Jedi', but it's easy to see how he came to it.
One other question, why the big swipe anyway? He's holding the Sabre 2 inches from the guys nose and yet decide to go for a golf club style attack rather than simply jabbing forward. (And yes, I do know it's because otherwise Anakin couldn't cut his hand off and it would have caused a rather sticky continuity error, but I had to ask ;) )
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Originally posted by Flipside
Well, the say they road to Hell is paved with good intentions ;)
It may have been the decision Mace came to, but, as the movie proved it was the wrong one. When Anakin chops off Mace's hand, Palpatine strikes with a cry of 'Unlimited Power!', that's what makes me stop and think that Sidious' power for the second burst of lightning actually came from Anakin, not Sidious himself. Had Anakin not turned on Mace, I don't think the Sith could have done a thing to defend himself at that stage. I still don't consider Maces decision to be wise, or even particuarly 'Jedi', but it's easy to see how he came to it.
Hmmm... We'll never know what would have happened if Windu tried to apprehend ol' Palps.
One other question, why the big swipe anyway? He's holding the Sabre 2 inches from the guys nose and yet decide to go for a golf club style attack rather than simply jabbing forward. (And yes, I do know it's because otherwise Anakin couldn't cut his hand off and it would have caused a rather sticky continuity error, but I had to ask ;) ) [/B]
The Jedi always have to be so dramatic and artsy, one of their fatal flaws IMO. Another question, why did Windu give him a speech first? Why did it even matter if Windu was planning to kill him anyway? I don't think Windu should have paused at all the second he knocked Palpatine's saber out of the window. He should have taken the rare oppurtunity and struck him down immediatley. But of couse, being the dark sith lord that I am, killing him immediatley would have been my obvious course of action. ;)
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I think the point of that scene was to show that Anakin was willing to bend the rules for Palpatine (who he knew) but not for Mace. Mace was continually distrusting of him, Palpatine was continually supportive.
In the case of Dooku, Anakin was killing a (literally) unarmed foe. Whether or not Dooku could've used Force Lighting is doubtful. Putting him on trial might've actually weakened the CIS cause, and/or given the Republic something to barter with.
In the case of Palpatine, he was still very much alive. Very possibly capable of more Force lightning if given time to recharge, and had obviously already killed 3 Jedi Masters (I have a hard time believing Anakin missed the bodies). If it took all that to get him to the position he was in, how could they expect to hold him, much less put him on trial?
And finally, I don't think anybody realized that Palpatine was the Sith Lord because no one expected him to be hiding in plain sight. How many people would believe you if you tried to seriously argue that Tony Blair is actually Osama bin Laden?
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Well, I think Yoda had his doubts about Palpatine from the point he suggested that Anakin be Padme's bodyguard, and knowing who the bad guy was from Episode 1 doesn't help, but I thought it was pretty obvious who the Sith was ;)
I actually found Ian McDiarmid's performance to be very good for most of the film, except for his fight scenes, for one, he's one of these people who opens his mouth or sticks his tongue out when he's concentrating, and secondly, when Yoda confronts him, theres times when he acts almost....comical. In his defence, he's nearly 30 years older than when he made ROTJ (he wasn't in Episode 5 iirc, an old lady was actually playing the Emperor in the original Empire Strikes Back). But there are times, when it seemed like Sidious was 2 different people, from the cold and calculating Emperor to the insance, giggling, animalistic Sith. I think it was the intention to make him seem like that, but it didn't all fit together quite squarely.
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The Jedi Order was dogmatic. That's why everything happened the way it did. They were very orthodox, having to follow the rules.
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Originally posted by Unknown Target
Yea, I didn't understand why Yoda just gave up after that. He fell down and then got right back up, why'd he run?
He realized he was beaten. Between losing his lightsabre, falling 100 feet, and losing his cloak, I think he realised that he wouldn't be able to beat Palpatine. And even if he could , there would be ahell of a mess to clean up afterward, with the Republic, and Anakin.
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Or he sensed the approaching clonetroopers and realized he couldn't fight them plus Palpatine at the same time.
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
He realized he was beaten. Between losing his lightsabre, falling 100 feet, and losing his cloak, I think he realised that he wouldn't be able to beat Palpatine. And even if he could , there would be ahell of a mess to clean up afterward, with the Republic, and Anakin.
That duel was more of a draw, a victory for either side would've meant the other's demise. I found it funny when Sidious was cackling and then all the sudden he's screaming for his life as well. It seemed very cartoonish.
I just saw the movie again tonight. It was captioned too. Someone must've requested it. Jeez, they caption everything. I liked it much better this time... still not as good as the OT though.
You know what I realized, Anakin might have lost Padme either way, because the Jedi said they would have to kill all the senators as well, or maybe they just meant all the corrupt senators? *Shrugs*
Originally posted by Flipside
It may have been the decision Mace came to, but, as the movie proved it was the wrong one. When Anakin chops off Mace's hand, Palpatine strikes with a cry of 'Unlimited Power!', that's what makes me stop and think that Sidious' power for the second burst of lightning actually came from Anakin, not Sidious himself. Had Anakin not turned on Mace, I don't think the Sith could have done a thing to defend himself at that stage. I still don't consider Maces decision to be wise, or even particuarly 'Jedi', but it's easy to see how he came to it.
You're right, it's very possible that once Anakin turned, Palpatine was able to tap into his power, as he exclaimed, "Power! Unlimited power!" while zapping Windu.
Originally posted by KappaWing
The Jedi always have to be so dramatic and artsy, one of their fatal flaws IMO. Another question, why did Windu give him a speech first? Why did it even matter if Windu was planning to kill him anyway? I don't think Windu should have paused at all the second he knocked Palpatine's saber out of the window. He should have taken the rare oppurtunity and struck him down immediatley. But of couse, being the dark sith lord that I am, killing him immediatley would have been my obvious course of action.
I would've killed him to--after one line of dialogue--which I could've delivered whilst thrusting my saber through his body. Then again, I have the makings of a Sith Lord. :p
Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
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:nod:
As soon as Palps was disarmed Mace should have followed on by lopping his head off and then said something witty. Jedi must destroy the sith and that can't be done by talking all the time.:devil:
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He shouldn't have done that, because the two trilogies would have contradicted each other. :nod:
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Blah, bugger the two trilogies :lol: that what he should have done ;)
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Regarding Palpatine, I was under the impression that he was mostly faking his "weakness" when Windu was standing over him. I have the feeling that Palpatine was just pulling a good act in order to get Anakin to snap and turn competely over to the dark side. I don't buy for a minute that he couldn't have kicked Windu's ass at any time he chose, no matter how badass Samuel L. is. :p
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I saw it tonight. I hereby deny the existence of Episodes 1-3 and maybe 6.
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Samething I said about Episode 2 applies here.
Good movie.
Bad Star Wars movie.
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Originally posted by Mongoose
Regarding Palpatine, I was under the impression that he was mostly faking his "weakness" when Windu was standing over him. I have the feeling that Palpatine was just pulling a good act in order to get Anakin to snap and turn competely over to the dark side. I don't buy for a minute that he couldn't have kicked Windu's ass at any time he chose, no matter how badass Samuel L. is. :p
Mace Windu was the second best lightsabre-wielder in the galaxy, first was Yoda.
However, if it comes to the Force, I think Palpatine was the stronger.
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I quite liked it. It did get acros the tragedy of Anakin's fall to the darkside. Still think Yoda's best part was fighting R2 for the lamp in ESB.
And that opening shot when you first see the Cruisers duking it out at the start was indeed cool.
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They needed ninja's. Screw lighsabers. Where were the force wielding ninja's! :D
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Originally posted by Roanoke
... Still think Yoda's best part was fighting R2 for the lamp in ESB.
...
:lol:
Damn, I think this is the comment of this thread.
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My 10th post! :D
How come everyone here is talking about the plot and the events of the movie? I think that those aspects of ROTS are the most easy to understand, and also the weakest arguments against ROTS. What about the music, special effects and acting? Personally, I thought that the characters, who were mostly played by above average actors, had some stale/bland lines. This wasted a lot of the good actor's skills although, I don't mind that for a Star Wars movie, because all 6 of them were pretty much the same in terms of dialogue quality. The rest of the movie, IMO, was brilliant and any other faults or flaws one cares to mention are just little scratches on the king's crown.
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They probably wanted the plot of the very last Lucas film to be more complicated than that.
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Well, considering the fact that the plot is worth being discussed for 13 pages, maybe it's not so straight-forward after all?
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We have been discussing the whole movie in this thread + don't forget it also has an om-topic discussion. Whatever we say about Episode III is off-topic, considering the first post.
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No, my point was not about this thread, but that the plot is actually good enough to be so heavily discussed.
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Yeah, the man's got a point. It's a self-defeating argument to be so pre-occupied with a plot that apparently isn't that good. It's good/interesting/gripping enough to keep our attention and make us ticked off when it's not quite the way we want it. ;)
Oh, and welcome to HLP General Freak. :)
:welcome:
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Originally posted by Grug
They needed ninja's. Screw lighsabers. Where were the force wielding ninja's! :D
What do you think Yoda was? :p
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Yoda wasn't a ninja, he couldn't speak Japanese.
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Originally posted by TopAce
Yoda wasn't a ninja, he couldn't speak Japanese.
How do you know that? Did you ever see anyone try to speak to him in Japanese? :D
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Originally posted by TopAce
Yoda wasn't a ninja, he couldn't speak Japanese.
He looks and talks like some ancient Chinese wiseman who can kick major ass when needed. That's good enough for me. :p
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http://www.realultimatepower.net/index4.htm
Facts:
1. Ninjas are mammals.
2. Ninjas fight ALL the time.
3. The purpose of the ninja is to flip out and kill people.
Although Yoda may fall under #1, he does not fall under #2 or #3, so therefore, Yoda is not a ninja.
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Originally posted by EtherShock
He looks and talks like some ancient Chinese wiseman who can kick major ass when needed. That's good enough for me. :p
[color=66ff00]Ninja's are Japanese.
Whole world of difference from the Chinese.
[/color]
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If you try to say that they're the same, both the Triad and the Yakuza will come kill you.
The only real connections are that both are Mongoloid peoples, and that they have a similar cultural base due to the importing of Chinese cultural concepts in the first millenium by a Korean kingdom.
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]Ninja's are Japanese.
Whole world of difference from the Chinese.
[/color]
Originally posted by Grey Wolf
If you try to say that they're the same, both the Triad and the Yakuza will come kill you.
The only real connections are that both are Mongoloid peoples, and that they have a similar cultural base due to the importing of Chinese cultural concepts in the first millenium by a Korean kingdom.
:rolleyes: Yes, I know. I was just expressing my lack of concern for this subject matter. Anyone that doesn't know Asian nationalities are different from one another is ignorant.
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Originally posted by TopAce
He shouldn't have done that, because the two trilogies would have contradicted each other. :nod:
You mean they would have contradicted each other more than they already do.
Originally posted by TopAce
Mace Windu was the second best lightsabre-wielder in the galaxy, first was Yoda.
However, if it comes to the Force, I think Palpatine was the stronger.
Not quite. Mace Windu was the on ewith the lightsabre skills. Yoda was the one with the knowledge of the force.
When Mace and Palpatine are fighting, Mace pretty much toys with him for a bit, then lets him know he's serious when they do that close up shot on his face. After that, he promptly disarms Palpatine by kicking his lightsabre out the window. (which he somehow gets back to fight Yoda with)
Yoda on the other hand, did not have supierority over Palpatine in the lightsabre department. He was agile though. But Yoda's forte was in the force. Where Mace had to use his lightsabre to block force lightning, and eventually got killed by it, Yoda absorbs it in his hands, on two seperate occasions. The last time, on the platform, Yoda even brings the lightning back upon Palpatine, at which point the camera makes a shot of Palpatine going from a cackling looney to actually being afraid. Afterward, the explosion sends Yoda flying because he's smaller, Palpatine has a chance to grab on the edge.
The fact that camera angles and shots were taken of Palpatine in fear of both Yoda and Mace's abilities shows their supieriority over Palpatine in those areas.
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
Not quite. Mace Windu was the on ewith the lightsabre skills. Yoda was the one with the knowledge of the force.
Don't know how relevent this is but Samuel L. Jackson did actually once say in an interview that his lightsabre skills were second only to Yoda's.
Of course actors generally don't know the universe anywhere near as well as the fans :)
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Originally posted by karajorma
Don't know how relevent this is but Samuel L. Jackson did actually once say in an interview that his lightsabre skills were second only to Yoda's.
....
:nod:
That is what I was thinking of.
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
(which he somehow gets back to fight Yoda with)
I bet he just used one of his spares. After all, the Sith generally seem to have far less reverence for the whole lightsaber construction process; they don't see it as a rite of passage like the Jedi do, and so they just go ahead and get synthetic crystals instead (hence the universal red colour). Maybe he has a drawer somewhere full of them. :)
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I am sure there will be a canon explanation on this Palpatine's lightsabre topic as soon as the film is distributed on VHS and cinemas stop projecting it.
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DYI
lightsaber lightsabre: http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/lightsaber1.htm
:D ;)
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Originally posted by TopAce
I am sure there will be a canon explanation on this Palpatine's lightsabre topic as soon as the film is distributed on VHS and cinemas stop projecting it.
You mean as soon as enough warsies bug Lucas enough that he gives them one.
I think Steak is probably right on the money. Hell even the Jedi's have spares. They tossed Anakin one during the Jedi arena battle in AotC (Unless you want to believe that the Jedi went to the trouble of finding and retrieving it before hand).
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We'll have to examine the movie more closely(or closerly? :nervous: ): If Uncle Palpatine has the same lightsabre hilt he did in the fight against Windu, this is a mistake in the film.
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Originally posted by General Freak
No, my point was not about this thread, but that the plot is actually good enough to be so heavily discussed.
The plots of Star Wars movies are simple, but the EU ****, comics, contradictionary statements and good old-fashioned errors plus retconing makes the seemingly irrelevant stuff (like Palpy's face or Leia's moms or EpIV battles or some blue-skinend jedi chick) seem far more important than what they are.
they drop a moon on Chewbacca hahahaha
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Originally posted by karajorma
I think Steak is probably right on the money. Hell even the Jedi's have spares. They tossed Anakin one during the Jedi arena battle in AotC (Unless you want to believe that the Jedi went to the trouble of finding and retrieving it before hand).
:nod: In this case, Ockham's Razor is the way to go.
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They should make a Star Wars beat em up game, in fashion of Mortal Kombat or Dead or Alive.
Total focus on dueling with dismemberment! :D
Come to think of it, why don't they have one...? o.O
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They do, it's called Masters of Teras-Kasi (http://www.lucasarts.com/products/masters/default.htm), for Playstation. No dismemberment, but you could fight mano a mano or draw your weapon, every character had one. It was really only fun to play with someone else though. Lucasarts should try to make another fighting game. They seem to learn (http://www.lucasarts.com/games/swempireatwar/indexFlash.html#GameInfo.Features) from their mistakes (http://www.lucasarts.com/products/forcecommander/default2.htm), or at least try to correct them.
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Hmm. Looks almost interesting.
They should remake or create a new one for the next gen of consoles. Would look pretty kewl. But you gotta have dismemberment... :(
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I rember reading about one fighting game with completely dynamic models.
you know what that means? You could tear off clothes, break bones (visibly) and every impact counted.
You hit that guy hard in the right arm - you'll be able to see a bruise there.
A punch in the mounth? - he wil bleed and maby loose a toth
You spinned kicked that chick in the chest - oh my, she just lost her bra...
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Originally posted by TopAce
We'll have to examine the movie more closely(or closerly? :nervous: ): If Uncle Palpatine has the same lightsabre hilt he did in the fight against Windu, this is a mistake in the film.
No, it just means he had two identical ones. Or had some clonetroopers do a search for it. If it hit anything I imagine it would cause a major scene, as would Mace's body :p
So on second thought, it's actually possible he sent some clonetroopers to clean up the evidence and they got his lightsabre, too.
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Originally posted by karajorma
Don't know how relevent this is but Samuel L. Jackson did actually once say in an interview that his lightsabre skills were second only to Yoda's.
Of course actors generally don't know the universe anywhere near as well as the fans :)
Episode Two, I think it was Obi, telling Anakin that if he trained harder, someday he might hope to be as strong in the force as Master Yoda, and as powerful with a lightsabre as Master Windu. Or it could have been Anakin to Obi Wan.
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"If you spent as much time practicing your lightsaber skills as you do your wit, you would rival even Master Yoda."
Or something like that.
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Originally posted by Grug
They should make a Star Wars beat em up game, in fashion of Mortal Kombat or Dead or Alive.
Total focus on dueling with dismemberment! :D
Come to think of it, why don't they have one...? o.O
There is actually the ability in Jedi Knight 2 (Outcast) to set the probability of dismemberment during lightsaber battles, via the command line. It was wicked funny. :D
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Yeah I've got Outcast and Academy. Outcast was kinda alright. Academy was a rip though. It's more of an expansion pack than a whole game. =/
There is a nice Melee mod that adds heaps of gore and choppy-ness into it though. :)
The Quake engine is too old though. =/
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heh, I remember that. You could just barely touch someone with your lightsaber and their limbs and head would just sort of fall off. It looked more funny than gruesome.
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Yeah, they tended to explode rather than get sliced. Outcast was great, Academy was OK but not up to the same standard. I did like the weapons options, though - a double-bladed lightsabre is great fun to use. :nod:
EDIT: What would be really cool would be to integrate the Havoc damage engine from Soldier of Fortune 2 into Outcast....;7
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hey, whats the link to that mod? I still play academy and could use some gore.
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I think it's a cheat code, but I'll just check...
EDIT: Try this:
To enable Jedi Academy cheats, while playing a game, bring down the console with
[Shift]+[~] and type: "devmapall" or "helpusobi 1".
You can then enter any of the following codes in the console:
Enable dismemberment * - g_saberrealisticcombat <1-20>
Notes:
* - Turn dismemberment on at the options menu after enabling this code.
That should do it. I think the number parameter sets the "level" of the dismemberment - 1 it'll only take off one limb or whatever, and 20 the body will fall to pieces. Experiment with it though...
EDIT2: Here's some more info:
Dismember people
Here is how to dismember people in JK3, just like in JK2.
This involves editing a game files ! But it works.
1: Go into the Game folder.
2: Find the GameData folder.
3: Find the base folder.
4: Find jaconfig.cfg
(if it is not there, make sure that the window is set to show ALL FILES)
5: Find g_saberMoreRealistic "0" and change it to g_saberMoreRealistic "99"
6: Find cg_saber EntMarks "1" and change it to cg_saberEntMarks "99"
7: Find g_dismemberment "0" or "1" and change it to g_dismemberment "99"
8: Save it.
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yeah, it's a console command. It should be pretty easy to find on any JK2 site.
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I was always a fan of Galactic Battlegrounds myself. Nothing like ordering a group of six AT-ATs to wreak some havoc. :D
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Hmmm, I dismember people normally while playing JK:JA... Totally awesome multiplayer game.
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I also used a blood mod. Which basically replaced the sizzle with plenty of blood. Much Gore. :)
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Ehh, I found the blood mod to be silly. It just changed the smoke to red.
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I used to like the dismembering in outcast LOL,bits and pieces flying everywhere :LOL:
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http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=150
LOL!!!!!
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:lol: For some reason, that reminds me a lot of Penny Arcade.
I too enjoyed the dismember hack. I wish there were more body parts to cut off though.
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This cartoon is indeed very funny. :blah: