Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Grunt on May 19, 2005, 01:16:01 pm
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I mean from the Shivans in the two wars.
Was it the Vasudans or the Terran race ?
I was thinking about a command briefing text and couldn't answer this.
If it can be decided at all .. :rolleyes:
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I don't think this is hard at all - the vasudans.
Though we lost the ability to return to earth (for now) the vasudans lost their homeworld.
All their culture and history wiped away in mere hours. While earth is cut off it is still there - and if you were born there and were stuck out in the Freespace 2 part of the galaxy at least you know that it is there, and it is ok - safe from the shivans
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Vasudans. After all, their homeworld was glassed by the Lucifer.
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Originally posted by Andreas
Vasudans. After all, their homeworld was glassed by the Lucifer.
Earth is not a way better: It wasn't destroyed, but contact was sealed, so it was also lost. Furthermore, it is not only the Earth that was lost, but the entire system, including any Terran mines refineries, shipyards or military forces. The Vasuda system suffered too, but it "only" lost one planet completely, not an entire sector.
In addition, the Terrans suffered more military losses, at least of what we saw from the Great War, there were not much Vasudan forces present.
This does not want to belie the quoted post, the quote's only purpose was to give me an idea of where to start[/size]
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Originally posted by Black13
I don't think this is hard at all - the vasudans.
Though we lost the ability to return to earth (for now) the vasudans lost their homeworld.
Interesting. That's what I wanted to write first.
Then I thought OK but what about Capella ? It was populated by Terrans and we have also lost it.
Vasuda Prime could at least be recovered and recolonized later.
A fair share of the population left both systems in time anyway.
The incursion came from Terran worlds in FS1, and the second invasion hardly touched Vasudan space.
As for the fleets, Terrans seem to have lost more ships all together.
So I'm still not fully convinced, though your version would fit my story better. ;)
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I've cut this out from the FS2 Tech Room. It refers to the GVFr Bes Vasudan freighter:
"While some Terran systems languished in the post-war era, the Vasudans experienced an economic recovery that was miraculous, given the annihilation of their home planet. Experts credit the policies of the restored Imperial government that emerged following Khonsu II's dissolution of the Vasudan parliament. As commerce among the Vasudan systems resumed and expanded into Terran worlds, a new generation of space-faring cargo vessels was required to meet the needs of this burgeoning economy"
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True, but as said earlier, Terra was only severed from the GTA, not destroyed, unlike Vasuda. From purely a statistical point of view, 4 billion Vasudans died on Vasuda alone. I hardly think that even Terran and Vasudan losses of the T-V and the Great War combined would even come close to that figure. Of course the separation of Terra from rest of the GTA is tragical, but at least it wasn't destroyed.
And, one must remember that the main campaign of FS1 revolves greatly around the Terrans. Therefore we are not given an accurate picture of the Vasudan losses to the Shivans. They must have lost a fair share of their Typhons to the Shivans as well, since the debriefing for sm3-02a.fsm says "For protecting one of the few remaining Vasudan Typhon-class destroyers...".
But from a purely emotional point of view, the loss of the GTD Galatea was the greatest loss for me during the Great War. :(
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Yea.. that's true.
I'm almost convinced now..
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When contact with Sol is restored we'll see. For now the Vasudans have the biggest whining rights but if Earth has fallen into barbarism or has glassed itself in a big war as Command suspects then I'd say the terrans came off worse.
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For all intents and purposes, Terra WAS destroyed, as there was no possiblity of ever getting there again. (At that time.) Just as if it were glassed, the people, ships, resources, and facilites of Terra were lost to the GTA seemingly for all time. Say they're not dead all you want. They might as well have been.
Based on FS1 CBanis and on other evidence, the Vasudans had a smaller, but more heavily populated and heavily industrialized empire, while much of what the Terrans held was sparsely populated and not capable of supporting the war effort. Put simply, the Vasudans could better afford to lose Vasuda Prime then the Terrans could afford to lose Earth.
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Originally posted by ngtm1r
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Based on FS1 CBanis and on other evidence, the Vasudans had a smaller, but more heavily populated and heavily industrialized empire, while much of what the Terrans held was sparsely populated and not capable of supporting the war effort. Put simply, the Vasudans could better afford to lose Vasuda Prime then the Terrans could afford to lose Earth.
What a flourishing empire... they can afford four billion deaths. :sigh:
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I'd say Terra; as well as the aforementioned loss of the complete sol system, the inhospitable nature of Vasuda Prime IMO would leave the Vasudans more likely to colonize new planets, and thus be better equipped from the loss of a homeworld.
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Vasudans cant cover ****, tho terrans do have Alpha 1, alpha one can still fail every mission. That would cover for 4 billion lives right there.
I think Terrans suffered more, tho i voted Vasudans, due to Vasuda Prime.
If Earth was destroyed, in FS..cough, i think id either suicide (Gamewise) or.. go off to fight those bastard shivasn.. in the next dimention.
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Originally posted by ngtm1r
For all intents and purposes, Terra WAS destroyed, as there was no possiblity of ever getting there again. (At that time.) Just as if it were glassed, the people, ships, resources, and facilites of Terra were lost to the GTA seemingly for all time. Say they're not dead all you want. They might as well have been.
Except that now that they've studied the Knossos they may very well be able to reopen the node to Sol.
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The Vasudans had 4 Billion deaths when the Lucifer Glassed Vasuda, and Capella had been evacuated before the SuperNova, they also lost a good few Typhons and the Psamtik.
The Terrans lost 2 Orions over The First Great War (The GTD Galatea and the GTD Legion, Opening Cutscene, they are the only losses that are mentioned). No destroyers' destruction was mentioned (Again IIRC) in the Second War against the Shivans, and I think we can guess that the Terrans and Vasudans would have fairly equal losses in the unmentioned battles.
The Vasudans lost more, the Terrans will have a Second Armada when the Sol knossos is opened.
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Depending on what's on the other end of the jump, though; Sol could have been glassed for all we know. I'm assuming that what Sol does & doesn't have isn't a factor until it can be accessed - as it stands Sol is 'lost' all the way through FS2.
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Originally posted by kietotheworld
The Vasudans had 4 Billion deaths when the Lucifer Glassed Vasuda, and Capella had been evacuated before the SuperNova, they also lost a good few Typhons and the Psamtik.
The Terrans lost 2 Orions over The First Great War (The GTD Galatea and the GTD Legion, Opening Cutscene, they are the only losses that are mentioned). No destroyers' destruction was mentioned (Again IIRC) in the Second War against the Shivans, and I think we can guess that the Terrans and Vasudans would have fairly equal losses in the unmentioned battles.
The Vasudans lost more, the Terrans will have a Second Armada when the Sol knossos is opened.
Uhh, no. Definitely more destroyer losses than that.
Ever heard of Tombough station? How many did they lose there?
As far as population loss is concerned the vasudans beat the terrans pretty handily. But if you want to evaluate the situation economically and militarily the terrans definitely beat the vasudans there.
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TopAce
What a flourishing empire... they can afford four billion deaths.
Better then the Terrans can afford a conservative 20 billion, yes? Nevermind other planets in the system or manufacturing capablities therein; Vasuda Primes' orbital shipyards survived, remember?
Originally posted by karajorma
Except that now that they've studied the Knossos they may very well be able to reopen the node to Sol.
Immaterial. Question is who suffered most from the Great War; post-Second Shivan Invasion is outside the scope.
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Originally posted by kietotheworld
The Terrans lost 2 Orions over The First Great War (The GTD Galatea and the GTD Legion, Opening Cutscene, they are the only losses that are mentioned).
Nope. Confirmed losses to the Shivans during the Great War are the GTD Amadeus, GTD Galatea and two other Orions (mentioned in the SB Nephilim tech entry). I don't know where this bloody Legion came from, but I'm not counting it as canon (not confirmed in-game, besides, we are never shown the nameplate of that Orion in that cutscene).
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sol knew that the shivans could still be out there, i had figured that they would push advances in weapons and ships about as much as the gtva has. im suprised that no attempt at radio/laser communication was attempted between sol and alpha centauri for example, it would have several years of lag but it would still alow both sides to send news and information to eachother, including info on new technologies and such. i dont see sol as a loss but rather a safe area of advancement. assuming the shivans didnt find a way to invade that system. as far as the gtva is concerned, with sol out of the picture, they are about on equil footing, nither has a home planet, both have about the same number of colonies. fleets are about the same. so its even
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Originally posted by kietotheworld
The Terrans lost 2 Orions over The First Great War (The GTD Galatea and the GTD Legion, Opening Cutscene, they are the only losses that are mentioned). No destroyers' destruction was mentioned (Again IIRC) in the Second War against the Shivans, ...
3rd Fleet lost GTD Amadeus to the Shivans in Vega (2335).
More Vasudan destroyers lost in FS2 indeed.
Terran fleets lost several ships defected to the NTF and destroyed later (nothing to do with the Shivans of course).
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Dam NTF..
Well Sol, tho i dont wish ti to be ture, could very well be descicrated(Sp?) for the mostpart with few surivivors, (as the vasudan ship yards survived orbiting..).
Im thinking, Sol would possibly send a 'life long' ship\crew out to GTVA.
Sence they were out of contact i think its possible, that they sent a crew, to fly in the direct path of hte lost node, to GTVA, to in several several eyars find them and contact them. I think we should have done it too. Send a ship out flying, so that their kids onbord would reach and find Gtva, if it took that long.
Tho i could find out, if anyone else knows offhand, what is the distance between Sol jump node and Gtva space? Is it a plasuable plight?
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As someone else mentioned, Alpha Centauri is only a few light-years away. You could send a ship traveling at 0.5 c, assuming Sol had that type of technology, and you'd be able to get there in under a decade. At that speed, though, the time-distorting effects of relativity would begin to come into play. (I'm not sure to what extent, exactly.) I've always thought it was interesting that there was apparently no radio communication between Sol and Alpha Centauri when, distance-wise, it would have been perfectly possible. A few other GTVA systems are within ten or twenty light-years of Sol, as well. Either some sort of interstellar material would scatter all transmissions from Sol outward, or the GTVI has been receiving messages and hasn't released news about them, possibly because they don't like what they're hearing...or maybe outgoing messages from Alpha Centauri have been met with nothing but silence :nervous:
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Mabye the subspace cataclysm surrouned sol with background radiation screening out any signals.
Mabye there was another way to eath and it was destroyed by the shivans.
Vasuda was rendered uninhabitable, there would be no going back.
The GTVA lost at the very least 5 destroyers in cambat against the shivans, coming to mind are.
GTD Galatea
GTD Minnow
GTD Leigon
GTD Repluse
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I don't remeber much of Silent Threat but isn't the GTD Repulse the same Repulse that rammed the Colossus?
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I don't remember a Repluse from ST.
There was a Normandy mentioned in the FS2 CBanis that starred in a X mission for FS1.
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Vasudans.
I don't need to explain myself.
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Originally posted by Mongoose
As someone else mentioned, Alpha Centauri is only a few light-years away. You could send a ship traveling at 0.5 c, assuming Sol had that type of technology, and you'd be able to get there in under a decade. At that speed, though, the time-distorting effects of relativity would begin to come into play. (I'm not sure to what extent, exactly.) I've always thought it was interesting that there was apparently no radio communication between Sol and Alpha Centauri when, distance-wise, it would have been perfectly possible. A few other GTVA systems are within ten or twenty light-years of Sol, as well. Either some sort of interstellar material would scatter all transmissions from Sol outward, or the GTVI has been receiving messages and hasn't released news about them, possibly because they don't like what they're hearing...or maybe outgoing messages from Alpha Centauri have been met with nothing but silence :nervous:
it would be safe to assume both sides would be scanning for signals as well at transmitting them. surely a space fairing civilization would have developed long range, high lag communication protocals and equipment that could transmit that many light years distance. i think i read somewhere that alpha centauri was moving away from sol, so it would take slightly longer than 4.3 years.
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Not repluse,somthing else wiht an R then.
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Hmm. Well the Vasudans handeled the loss of their home planet well, we wouldent. They quickly moved and shifted to other main planets, we, dont have any but Vega IIRC.
And about 'well we had no losses in capella' or the like.
There is no possible way completely everyone or 'under 1,000 - 10,000 ppl' could excape. Thus, ranging from 1000 to 10,000 ppl must have died or been left behind. Capella was highly populated. Possibly more then one capella planet?? ANyways, could we completely evac earth, with everyone, even if it was All as popoulated as America (being no 3rd or 2nd world countries, all high teck peoples). There would be heavy losses, and tho their planet is uninhabitable, there is always chance. Nukes, tho make things uninhabited, will eventually get the radiation clear. We lost all planet loss. And not all planets are inhabitable.. so This was a big loss.
Our covoys, engaged, widespread, and quickly hurried, a good majority was mostlikely w\o fighter protection and alot probably destrooyed. Tho they did evacuate them, not all of them. In the last cutseen. They sent even Caps to engage all capella ships, excapeing. So the protecting friendly caps.. all lost. So we have a loss bigger then just civilians and transport ships were lost, military, large amounts of military and trained personel.
I wonder, where would they move to.. and how would the planets beable to handel that big mass of people all-of-a-sudden.
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Capella was evacuated when the first Sathanas entered GTVA Space.
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Could they completely evacuate Capella? I don't know about that, I guess they could not.
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Originally posted by ngtm1r
Immaterial. Question is who suffered most from the Great War; post-Second Shivan Invasion is outside the scope.
ummm. The question is who suffered more in both wars not just the Great War.
Originally posted by Grunt
Who suffered more ?
I mean from the Shivans in the two wars.
If you're going to arbritarily stick a cut-off point at the second Petrach stopped speaking then the Terrans suffered more. Sol's population was no doubt higher than it is now which means more than 6 billion terrans lost. Compare that with 4 Billion Vasudans and the terrans win on sheer numbers alone.
Personally I think that's a rather stupid way of doing things though. You always have to include future loss and mitigation of that future loss in any such appraisal.
As for the evacuation of Capella it's pretty certain they got almost everyone out. Petrach states that Command is committed to getting every single person out of Capella. Not showing much of a commitment to that if you then go and blow up the only way out of the system a few hours later.
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Originally posted by Charismatic
Hmm. Well the Vasudans handeled the loss of their home planet well, we wouldent. They quickly moved and shifted to other main planets, we, dont have any but Vega IIRC.
And about 'well we had no losses in capella' or the like.
There is no possible way completely everyone or 'under 1,000 - 10,000 ppl' could excape. Thus, ranging from 1000 to 10,000 ppl must have died or been left behind. Capella was highly populated. Possibly more then one capella planet??
The population of Capella pre-evacuation was 250 million;
[q]A small task force will oversee the demolition of the Knossos while the bulk of the allied fleet blockades the jump node leading to the densely-populated Capella system. Command has begun the process of evacuating the two hundred fifty million civilians inhabiting Capella, the largest exodus since the Great War. The Colossus will remain in that system to engage the Sathanas should we fail.[/q]
Note that this briefing came before the first Sathanas was engaged; so a lot would have left prior to destruction.
At least 100,000 GTVA died in the evacuation from the Shivan fleet ( briefing prior to Colossus destruction)
[q]With over one hundred thousand casualties and more Shivans incoming, we have no hope of holding Capella.[/q]
Another briefing implies significantly less casualties than I would have thought (prior to Bastion escort mission)
[q]The majority of the fleet is fending off a massive attack at the Vega node. Thousands of civilians await evacuation[/q]
And in the final mission brief;
[q]Your objective is to defend our convoys as they flee through the Vega node. Cargo ships, personnel transports, medical vessels, and the remnants of the allied fleet are now in transit. These convoys are under heavy bomber fire. If we don't provide cover, thousands will die.[/q]
AFAIK there's no explicit statement as to whether Capella was a Terran or Vasudan - or both - planet, anyways; there is however a statement during one of the briefings along the lines of 'getting every last Terran out'; however, that may mean the players (Terran) fleet was only assigned to Terran ships, or simply that Vasudans don't like to run away and would just die instead (ala their escape pods). Particularly as the position of Capella would appear IMO more suited to the Vasudans than Terrans colonizing it first.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
AFAIK there's no explicit statement as to whether Capella was a Terran or Vasudan - or both - planet, anyways; there is however a statement during one of the briefings along the lines of 'getting every last Terran out'; however, that may mean the players (Terran) fleet was only assigned to Terran ships, or simply that Vasudans don't like to run away and would just die instead (ala their escape pods). Particularly as the position of Capella would appear IMO more suited to the Vasudans than Terrans colonizing it first.
The Terran 3rd fleet being stationed in Capella suggests that it was (mostly) populated by Terrans.
Not sure if there was any statement about the status of Capella in FS1 tho.
Calling a star system "densely populated" with only 250 million is also interesting. This is around the population of the greater countries on Earth.
Now assuming that one Argo transport may carry cca. 1000, and that all of them did 10 passes between Capella and Vega, implies that the total number of available ships in this category was about 25000 ... :eek2:
I wouldn't have been a policeman at that jumpnode ...
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Originally posted by FireCrack
Mabye the subspace cataclysm surrouned sol with background radiation screening out any signals.
Mabye there was another way to eath and it was destroyed by the shivans.
Vasuda was rendered uninhabitable, there would be no going back.
The GTVA lost at the very least 5 destroyers in cambat against the shivans, coming to mind are.
GTD Galatea
GTD Minnow
GTD Leigon
GTD Repluse
We did lose the GTD Bastion and another ship to collapse the nodes leading to Capella, albeit not directly by the Shivans, but still
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Originally posted by Grunt
The Terran 3rd fleet being stationed in Capella suggests that it was (mostly) populated by Terrans.
Not sure if there was any statement about the status of Capella in FS1 tho.
Calling a star system "densely populated" with only 250 million is also interesting. This is around the population of the greater countries on Earth.
Now assuming that one Argo transport may carry cca. 1000, and that all of them did 10 passes between Capella and Vega, implies that the total number of available ships in this category was about 25000 ... :eek2:
I wouldn't have been a policeman at that jumpnode ...
Well, I'm not sure the 3rd fleets stationing there would be definitive, as it's not clear whether or not the Vasudan fleets can share a 'sector' with the Terrans (particularly as it's a wee bit murky whether Vasudan fleets are actually called 'Fleet' or 'Battlegroup'). It strikes me as most likely it is Terran, but Capella is really closer to Vasudan territory.
Capella could be densely populated in the sense it has sod-all habitable planets. 250m isn't a massive amount, though. I think one of the early briefings mentions Cygnus Prime neeeding 300,000 GTVA troops to capture it, which sort of implies the GTVA doesn't have a huge population.
I think the Argo transport would have done well more than 10 trips each. I think the in-jump time from Capella to Vega is maybe 15 minutes or so (IIRC this is referenced by the time it'll take the Nereid to come through and collapse the node)... so I think a 2-3 hour evacuation trip time is plausible. And given that the evacutation of Capella began just after the first Sathanas was encountered, I'd guess they had maybe a week or so?
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Seems you lost a 0 somewhere Grunt. Hehe.
Aldo: Dam, that makes me sad. 100,000+ casulties.. so much death. I think we should not have lost capella. Some hidden importance. Dont know why tho.
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The Terran race has probably suffered the greatest losses. Sol is gone, much of the fleet was nearly wiped out in the Great War, and we have no idea exactly how many ships were lost in the Second Encounter. And the loss of Capella, even assuming the majority of the population made it out, is staggering. Once again, a major industrial and civilian population center was lost.
A note to remember, casualties does not mean just deaths. In military terms, it includes both deaths and injuries. Also, we're never told exactly what the number represents. Ships? Stations? People? All of the above? Fighter Pilots? That has always nagged me as yet another thing command refuses to elaborate on. Oh well.
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I've just realised how retarded the "Sol getting cut off is as bad as Vasuda being glassed" argument is.
Jesus Christ, do you people really think that a race being separated and most of both sides survive is as bad as 4 Billion Deaths and Vasuda being rendered uninhabitable?
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Of corce were bias, its Earth were talking about.
[freecampaignidea]
Hell this topic may be bigg enough to start off another T-V war..
[/freecampaignidea]
It was bad, but.. we lost tons of **** also, mega industrial stuff. Yes its still there but its as bad as it being glassed also.
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Goober, is it you that appended the 'me' poll option?
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I think its Raa.
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Originally posted by freespacegundam
The Terran race has probably suffered the greatest losses. Sol is gone, much of the fleet was nearly wiped out in the Great War, and we have no idea exactly how many ships were lost in the Second Encounter. And the loss of Capella, even assuming the majority of the population made it out, is staggering. Once again, a major industrial and civilian population center was lost.
A note to remember, casualties does not mean just deaths. In military terms, it includes both deaths and injuries. Also, we're never told exactly what the number represents. Ships? Stations? People? All of the above? Fighter Pilots? That has always nagged me as yet another thing command refuses to elaborate on. Oh well.
I would guess that the mission designer - i.e. who wrote the brief - would be thinking in terms of people, and probably dead people at that.
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Originally posted by kietotheworld
I think its Raa.
*kicks Kie in the shin*
Although, I do feel like I'm suffering from all of these ridiculous polls...
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Get a new MOD to replace you for a bit then.
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Or.... we could stop making useless polls to spam the forums with. Or I can lock them on sight. Or we can continue with the way things are going now.
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Originally posted by Raa
Although, I do feel like I'm suffering from all of these ridiculous polls...
Uhumm ... you realize that the author was curious about others' feelings on this before he made a statement in a mission brief don't you ? :wtf:
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I'd say Terrans. Mostly because of the vasudans, as opposed to the Shivans.
Post-FS1, the Terrans were in worse shape because they had to suffer the damage of a significantly powerfull Vasudan fleet, and the fact was that they were actually loosing to the Vasudans (albiet slowly).
Now, the Vasudans were stronger when the shivans came, and took only a little more brunt of the damage to their military, with the major loss being their homeworld. However, post-fs1, they'd still be better off than the Terrans. Not only were the Terrans weaker at this time, but they pretty much lost an entire system, as opposed to a single planet. Vasuda would have been recaptured and probably re-colonized as well, with the system still minable at the very least. Their military would also still be intact, with all losses at least recoverable.
The Terrans pretty much lost a significant system completely, a significant portion of the military in that system as well as the resources available in it. Remember - they must have been preparing for a blockade, which means that a significant percentage of the GTVA's ships would be at Earth. The Vasudans would have already shifted their command and other centres off Vasudan when the Shivan advance came in, the Terrans had to build one anew, as well as everything else. With fewer systems than the Vasudans now, they would also be on the lower end economically and resource-wise.
Post Fs2 is a different story alltogether though. Here, it's pretty much a tie. Both races lost a significant percentage of ships to the NTF. The terrans lost two fleets, while the Vasudan ships would have fallen to the inital surprise attacks and the war of attrition that came later on. They would have also lost a significant amount of force to attacks against the NTF, since the Terrans would have been unable to assist till the fleets in other systems came in. This is nothing to say about the situation on the ground. Judging from human nature and brutality, the scenarios on Deneb and other worlds would have been catastrophic, to say the least.
To the shivans, both races lost a significant and sizable force, with the terrans edging the Vasudans slightly with the loss of several great-war era destroyers as well as most of hte Aeoli cruisers. However, this edge isn't much.
In the long run however, the Vasudans would have lost the most, as with the new Knossos technology, the prior loss of Earth incurred by the GTA would have been nullated. The fleets and ships from there would provide Terrans with significant advantages and resources over their Vasudan allies......
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I don't see how the GTA was losing. I always thought T-V War was more like WWI-style standoff, with neither sides gaining any significant victories. Even the Reference Bible mentions that "What started out as a show of strength and technology degenerated into a war of attrition, with both sides suffering heavy losses. Terran and Vasudan ships skirmished in remote areas of space while the politicos flapped their gums on the news. After 14 years, both sides suffered terrible losses, and the end was nowhere in sight."
I agree that the PVN must have had a larger fleet than the GTA, otherwise they could have never been able to compensate for the lack of quality found in the Aten and Anubis classes, which they seemed to favour, especially in suicide attacks, most likely because of their low cost.
There is not much proof that the GTA had any large blockade in the Sol system. I mean, why was Bastion in such a hurry to launch a strike force against the Lucifer if there would have been an entire fleet garrisoned at the other side, capable of doing the same thing? To me it seemed like Bastion was the only Terran ship capable of launching such an attack at the time.
And how would the Vasudan military be still intact (let's not forget the HoL here, either)? Just because we are never shown or told about their losses, doesn't mean that they don't exist. They did lose some of their Typhons, because the mission debriefing for SM3-02a mentions "For protecting one of the few remaining Vasudan Typhon-class destroyers...".
So they were just as screwed as the GTA was. Politically, the GTA was royally screwed though, as most of their political and economical infastructures were based in the Sol system, and the GTI insurgency that followed only fastened the break-up of the GTA.
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Originally posted by Andreas
There is not much proof that the GTA had any large blockade in the Sol system. I mean, why was Bastion in such a hurry to launch a strike force against the Lucifer if there would have been an entire fleet garrisoned at the other side, capable of doing the same thing? To me it seemed like Bastion was the only Terran ship capable of launching such an attack at the time.
Actually, there is a very, very obvious reason why the Bastion was the only Terran capital ship able to attack the Lucifer in transit.
It was the only one close enough to see the Lucifer enter subspace.
Available evidence is thin, but seems to support the idea that GTA/GTVA subspace tracking is only able to track ships that entered subspace in the presence of a GTA/GTVA craft. Presumably GTA/GTVA technology is similar, GTVA perhaps more advanced, perhaps not. When one considers that all examples of forewarning by Command of enemy arrival via subspace were of ships that had run a blockade to get there and were almost certainly observed entering subspace, it starts to seem fairly reasonable that any Earth-side forces could not have intercepted the Lucifer in the node, as they would not know its location in subspace. Subspace "tunnels" would not appear to fixed objects that all ships that enter a node will travel in through: there must be layers or subdivisions of some sort that seperate them, otherwise the subspace tracking technology would have been wholly unnecessary.
Originally posted by Andreas
And how would the Vasudan military be still intact (let's not forget the HoL here, either)? Just because we are never shown or told about their losses, doesn't mean that they don't exist. They did lose some of their Typhons, because the mission debriefing for SM3-02a mentions "For protecting one of the few remaining Vasudan Typhon-class destroyers...".
Forget the HoL...let's talk about the siege of Vasuda Prime. I imagine that the Vasudans threw in everything they had available in defense of their homeworld, and lost most of it in the process.
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You're right. It's just that they didn't mention about anysort of blockade in the Sol system in any of the command or mission briefings, so I thought that the statement that "significant percentage of the GTVA's ships would be at Earth" was a little bit off.
Originally posted by ngtm1r
Forget the HoL...let's talk about the siege of Vasuda Prime. I imagine that the Vasudans threw in everything they had available in defense of their homeworld, and lost most of it in the process.
Very true. That reminds me, from the command briefing of sm2-03a: "The Hammer of Light has decimated the Vasudan fleet at Vega. Most of the surviving Vasudan forces have retreated to Deneb and Antares."
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Originally posted by Grunt
Uhumm ... you realize that the author was curious about others' feelings on this before he made a statement in a mission brief don't you ? :wtf:
1) No. That was never stated. AFAICT, this was the same kind of poll thread as all the others. Not once did 'the author' say he was looking for opinions for his own command bfiefing.
2) That doesn't even matter. You should know by now that since you're asking for an opinionon HLP. HLP has as many opinions as it does members. And on top of that, the question is totally abitrary. All you know is what they tell you in mission, and what you read in the tech rooms. There's very little real info on the background fluff.
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Speaking of Silent Threat, is that available for d/l on HotU?
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Originally posted by Grunt
...Was it the Vasudans or the Terran race ?
I was thinking about a command briefing text and couldn't answer this...
Originally posted by Raa
...Not once did 'the author' say he was looking for opinions for his own command bfiefing...
HLPers helped a lot to answer the question actually. They quoted all relevant info from both FS games. No I can safely say it was the Vasudans cos it meets the opinion of most people here (66% at the moment). The rest will not agree but it's like tennis, one can not win all the points.
;)
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Originally posted by DeepSpace9er
Speaking of Silent Threat, is that available for d/l on HotU?
Try the FSPort.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
but Capella is really closer to Vasudan territory.
I don't buy that.
Adhara is definately Terran as the Adhara Coalition was one of the regional blocs. Epsilon Pegasi appears to be Terran too as does Polaris (I doubt the NTF could have succeeding in starting their rebellion in a Vasudan held systems, not to mention that the Terran Freedom Shipyards were based there). Regulus is also definately Terran as it too was one of the regional blocs (The Regulus Syndicate).
Vega also must have a sizable terran population too as there are terran fleets based there, the (Terran-made) meson bomb was developed there.
All in all it seems pretty likely to me that Capella was Terran. The fact that the installation we did see was an Arcadia rather than one of the semi-mythical Vasudan installations also tends to point in that direction.
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Believe it or not, I don't think the Vasudans have suffered all that much. Remember, the Vasudans are a philosophical people who have chosen not to dwell on the past. Besides, their homeworld can easily be restored by a little technological secret known as TERRAFORMING. The Terrans however, truly lost their homeworld in the most horrific of ways. We don't know what happened to our loved ones on Earth. Did it survive and prosper? Did it fall into another dark age? Are our loved ones still alive? We had know idea how things had turned out. We did not have the comfort of knowing that our loved ones were dead and at peace. All we had left were fond memories of our birthplace and a small glow of a far off star to dwell upon.
Now I ask you, who hurts now? Huh?! Who hurts now?!!!
*Breathes Deeply*
*Calms Down*
*Sees Vasudans bearing torches and pitchforks*
*Runs*
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Originally posted by karajorma
All in all it seems pretty likely to me that Capella was Terran. The fact that the installation we did see was an Arcadia rather than one of the semi-mythical Vasudan installations also tends to point in that direction.
Show me where there's a Vasudan installation in any system, and I will give you a fish.
I, for some reason, thought of Capella as a mixed system. It's population was too large to be strictly Terran, or Vasudan, IMO.
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Originally posted by Boomer
Besides, their homeworld can easily be restored by a little technological secret known as TERRAFORMING. The Terrans however, truly lost their homeworld in the most horrific of ways. We don't know what happened to our loved ones on Earth.
Point 1; You cannot Terraform glass. Not to mention Vasuda Prime is probably so radioactive, it'd kill anything attempting to survive on the surface.
Point 2; Radio waves from a nearby system could have reached Earth and back several times in the years after the Lucifer. Sol had survived for millenia before humans made it to space, it could survive more after being isolated once more.
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Originally posted by Raa
Show me where there's a Vasudan installation in any system, and I will give you a fish.
That's why I said they were semi-mythical. It's fairly obvious that the vasudans almost certainly have them but yet we never ever see one in either game.
Originally posted by Raa
Point 2; Radio waves from a nearby system could have reached Earth and back several times in the years after the Lucifer. Sol had survived for millenia before humans made it to space, it could survive more after being isolated once more.
It could survive but it being cut off could easily have sparked a war that resulted in it not doing so.
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Point 1; You cannot Terraform glass. Not to mention Vasuda Prime is probably so radioactive, it'd kill anything attempting to survive on the surface.
Plus, the surface wasn't glassed. Remember the FS2 Intro cutscene? The planet with all the dead Terran and Vasudan Marines? That was Vasuda, not Deneb. Their was no ground action in Deneb.
Plus, "technology", that's the operative term here. Wow, we can go faster than light, but we can't build something that can deal with radioactivity? Especially after OUR history with nuclear weapons? Wow, the Vasudans were right, we ARE an arrogant, stupid and uncooperative race.
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But there's no evidence that it did, nor that it didn't. So it's immaterial. You cannot base suffering on speculation.
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Originally posted by karajorma
I don't buy that.
Adhara is definately Terran as the Adhara Coalition was one of the regional blocs. Epsilon Pegasi appears to be Terran too as does Polaris (I doubt the NTF could have succeeding in starting their rebellion in a Vasudan held systems, not to mention that the Terran Freedom Shipyards were based there). Regulus is also definately Terran as it too was one of the regional blocs (The Regulus Syndicate).
Vega also must have a sizable terran population too as there are terran fleets based there, the (Terran-made) meson bomb was developed there.
All in all it seems pretty likely to me that Capella was Terran. The fact that the installation we did see was an Arcadia rather than one of the semi-mythical Vasudan installations also tends to point in that direction.
Well, firstly the population of Polaris & E.P IMO have little to do with Capellas initial colonisation if they were colonised after the GTVa was formed. (I'd guess in that event a large Terran refugee population from Sol - or otherwise cut off from homes there - would make them particularly amenable to the NTF rebellion).
The first mission of FS2 (proper) takes place in Deneb; the presence of the 13th Vasudan battlegroup, plus the need to escort Vasudan refugees, IMO points to this system being Vasudan; as does the description of Bosch's war being to get to sites within Vasudan systems.
Deneb is, of course, the system next to Vega. It's also next to Vasuda, which to me would hint that it would be heavily populated (along with Sirius, Antares, and Alpha Centauri); because the Vasudans got into space early in their history, and to me this would make it likely they'd have colonized their surrounding systems.
In FS1, IIRc there's a mention of a battle in Vega during the TV war. There's also mention of Vasudan forces massing in Vega to counter-attack the Shivans (later decimated by a HoL attack), and also mention that Antares was being held by the GTA (which to me might indicate that the TV war thrust by the GTA was mainly in that area, perhaps because Vega had been fortified by Vasudan colonisation).
(of course, FS1 also mentions an Antares-Vega node; in which case the battle of Vega must have led to a Terran defeat, regardless of the initial holder of the system; proximity to Vasuda again makes me think it's more likely the Vasudans would hold the system).
As Vega is the only system which connects to Capella without having to also go via Vasuda, this makes me think that if the Vasudans controlled Vega, they would control Capella. And I believe they did, so would have colonized Capella first.
The other thing is that IMO if the Capella and Vega are Terran, then the Vasudans would by consequence have very few systems insofar as the known ones go;if they held Antares outwards, then it'd be more even. Except that FS1 describes the Antares system as being the site of Thresher, and initmates that Beta Cygnic & Ribos are held by the GTA (the shield tech is transferred from an Arcadia station in the latter to the former).
Of course, the screwy nature of the FS1 nodemap kind of raises questions over the legitimacy of any info drawn from them (and you'll notice all the 'mights', 'maybes', 'ifs' and soforth), but I don;t think it's contradictory to suggest Capella was at least originally Vasudan. Odds are, IMO, it was probably colonised by both, rendering this arguement meaningless :D
Inicidentally, Capella isn't mentioned in FS1. Which makes it an interesting issue as to why Volition chose that star, and that name.... I'm guessing it wasn't because it was a binary, as they didn't seem to notice that in the missions or cutscenes....
Mythologically, the best I've found (in a cursory 10-second wikipedia search) is that in Hindu mythology Capella is known as the heart of Brahma; the Hindu creator god, one of 3 which includes Vishnu and (yes, you guessed it) Shiva.
the wikipedia entry reads;
[q]Brahma is the Hindu creator god, and one of the Trimurti, the others being Vishnu and Shiva. He is the husband of Sarasvati. However, being the Creator, all of his "sons" are "manas-putras", or mind-sons, indicating their birth from Brahma's mind and not from his body.
Brahma only occasionally interferes in the affairs of the gods, and even more rarely in mortal affairs. He did force Soma to give Tara back to her husband, Brihaspati. He is considered the father of Dharma and Atri. Brahma lives in Brahmapura, a city located on Mt. Meru.
Brahma is an agent of Brahman, the Supreme Being or Absolute of Hinduism.
Brahma is traditionally depicted with four heads and four faces and four arms. Each head recites one of the four Vedas. The hands hold a water-pot used in creating life, a string of rosary beads used to keep track of the Universe's time, the text of the Vedas, and a lotus flower.
The acquiring of Brahma's heads makes for an interesting legend. When Brahma was creating the universe, he made a female deity known as Shatarupa (one with a hundred beautiful forms). Brahma was immediately infatuated. Shatarupa moved in various directions to avoid the gaze of Brahma. But wherever she went, Brahma developed a head. Thus, Brahma developed five heads, one on each side and one above the others. In order to control Brahma, Shiva cut off the top head. Also, Shiva felt that Shatarupa was Brahma's daughter, being created by him. Therefore, Shiva determined, it was wrong for Brahma to become obsessed with her. He directed that there be no proper worship in India for the "unholy" Brahma. Thus, only Vishnu and Shiva continue to be worshipped, while Brahma is almost totally ignored. Ever since the incident, Brahma has been reciting the four Vedas in his attempt at repentance.
Another legend of the lack of worship of Brahma is as follows: Once, both Vishnu and Brahma approached Siva and requested to find his beginning and end. Vishnu was appointed the end, and Brahma the beginning. Each took their journey, and neither could find their appointed destination. Vishnu, satisfied, came up to Siva and bowed down to him as a swarupa of Brahman. Brahma did not give up so easily. As he was going up, he saw a kaitha flower, dear to Siva. His ego forced him to ask the flower to bear false witness of Brahma's finding Siva's beginning. When Brahma told his tale, Siva, the all-knowing, was angered by the former's ego. Siva thus cursed him that no being in the three worlds will worship him.
There is another legend which relates Brahma's not being worshipped to a curse by the great sage Brahmarishi Bhrigu. Once a great fire-sacrifice (yajna) was being organised on Earth with Bhrigu being the high priest. It was decided that the greatest among all Gods would be made the presiding deity. Bhrigu then set off to find the greatest among the Trinity. When he went to Brahma, he was so immersed in the music played by Saraswati that he could hardly hear Bhrigu's calls. The enraged Bhrigu then cursed Brahma that no person on Earth would ever invoke him or worship him again.
Brahma gyan is a rarely word used in the Hindu religion. It means knowledge of the supreme or knowledge of the creator God. A person who has this type of knowledge can be considered a highly enlightened person. He may see God in every object he sees, he can talk to God. Brahma gyan can be found in books like Gita, Vedas etc. Brahma gyan is considered as supreme knowledge in Hindu religion.[/q]
(NB: 'Siva' is another form of 'Shiva')
EDIT; is that where you got the Starborn idea from?
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Originally posted by Boomer
Plus, the surface wasn't glassed.
It was bombarded by the Lucifer for 13 hours straight, rendering most of the landmass uninhabitable. It may not have been radioactive, but it was almost certainly turned to glass or another similar chemical form.Remember the FS2 Intro cutscene? The planet with all the dead Terran and Vasudan Marines? That was Vasuda, not Deneb.
It was Deneb. It says so at the beginning of the intro.Their was no ground action in Deneb.
First, it's spelled "there". Second, there was ground action in Deneb in FS2, so there certainly could have been ground action in FS1.Originally posted by aldo_14
Deneb is, of course, the system next to Capella.
No it isn't. Check the nodemap - you have to go through Vega.
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Whoops. I meant Deneb was next to Vega :o
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Originally posted by Raa
Point 1; You cannot Terraform glass. Not to mention Vasuda Prime is probably so radioactive, it'd kill anything attempting to survive on the surface.
Why would it be radioactive?
The Lucifer's main guns are not nuclear weapons, and there is nothing in existing canon on which to base supposition that they generate radioactivity under any circumstances.
Vasuda Prime recovered after the war; notation in the techroom regarding Vasuda Prime orbital shipyards producing the Bakha bomber; also notation in Intel brief on the Vasudans that the Emperor resides in the Imperial Palace on Vasuda Prime. Whether or not you believe it was terraformed is immaterial. It was restored to at least partial habitiblity, which implies some level of terraforming capablity.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Deneb is, of course, the system next to Vega. It's also next to Vasuda,
No it's not. If you look at the map to get to Deneb you either go Vasuda>>Antares>>Beta Aquilae>>Vega>>Deneb or Vasuda>>Alpha Centauri>>Sirius>>Deneb.
Originally posted by aldo_14
which to me would hint that it would be heavily populated (along with Sirius, Antares, and Alpha Centauri); because the Vasudans got into space early in their history, and to me this would make it likely they'd have colonized their surrounding systems.
Considering that the Vasudans failed to find Sol which is 4 jumps away (and probably didn't settle Delta Serpentis either which is 3 jumps away), I think we can dispence with the assumption that the Vasudans were hugely expansionist as soon as they left Vasuda. It could be that they were simply happy with the first few systems they found.
Originally posted by aldo_14
(of course, FS1 also mentions an Antares-Vega node; in which case the battle of Vega must have led to a Terran defeat, regardless of the initial holder of the system; proximity to Vasuda again makes me think it's more likely the Vasudans would hold the system).
What proximity to Vasuda? Vega is 3 jumps from both Sol and Vasuda. Both routes go through Beta Aquilae (which leads me to believe that Terrans must have held that system).
In fact if the Terrans didn't hold at least parts of Antares too it seems hard to believe that they managed to hold onto Ribos and Ikeya since the only other way into the system is via a plot hole.
Originally posted by aldo_14
As Vega is the only system which connects to Capella without having to also go via Vasuda, this makes me think that if the Vasudans controlled Vega, they would control Capella. And I believe they did, so would have colonized Capella first.
I agree with you there. I simply dispute that the Vasudans controlled Vega.
Originally posted by aldo_14
The other thing is that IMO if the Capella and Vega are Terran, then the Vasudans would by consequence have very few systems insofar as the known ones go;if they held Antares outwards, then it'd be more even. Except that FS1 describes the Antares system as being the site of Thresher, and initmates that Beta Cygnic & Ribos are held by the GTA (the shield tech is transferred from an Arcadia station in the latter to the former).
Which tends to point towards my theory of Antares being a contested system. At the start of FS2 we know that Deneb, Alpha Centauri and Epsilon Pegasi are all contested systems so it seems quite possible that a system can stay contested for long periods of time. The fact that the war had turned into a war of attrition also seems to agree with that (With no contested systems both sides would have simply fortified the jump nodes and the war would have become a cold war instead.
Originally posted by aldo_14
Of course, the screwy nature of the FS1 nodemap kind of raises questions over the legitimacy of any info drawn from them (and you'll notice all the 'mights', 'maybes', 'ifs' and soforth), but I don;t think it's contradictory to suggest Capella was at least originally Vasudan. Odds are, IMO, it was probably colonised by both, rendering this arguement meaningless :D
I agree that the FS1 node map makes the discussion almost silly. That's obvious right from the FS1 intro where the Vasudans must have some how taken a skirmishing force straight through Delta Serpentis (surely the second most powerful Terran system) in order to reach Ross 128
Originally posted by aldo_14
EDIT; is that where you got the Starborn idea from?
You'll have to ask Geezer about that one. The Starborn were already invented when I came on board :D
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From the brief;
Most escaping transport ships were destroyed. All major Vasudan cities were leveled, and most of the landmass was rendered uninhabitable. All of our attacks launched from the nearby installations were defeated.
So no need for any for of regeneration, really, although you'd expect an attempt at it regardless..
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Originally posted by Boomer
The planet with all the dead Terran and Vasudan Marines? That was Vasuda, not Deneb. Their was no ground action in Deneb.
How can that be Vasuda? There was also no ground action on Vasuda I think, also, how did those bodys get there in the first place? I thought Shivans didn't do ground battles.
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Originally posted by Fragrag
How can that be Vasuda? There was also no ground action on Vasuda I think, also, how did those bodys get there in the first place? I thought Shivans didn't do ground battles.
The bodies IMO are suppossed to be from crashed ships and whatnot (and just sheer artistic value). I think the cutscene caption, the transition to the wrecked herc, and whatnot, makes it pretty obvious the planet is in Deneb.
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The Vasudans. They lost a planet. Nuff said. :(
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We lost a planet to, no, I mean literally, we don't know where the heck it is
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Originally posted by Fragrag
We lost a planet to, no, I mean literally, we don't know where the heck it is
What? I'm fairly sure earth is still orbiting Sol in 2367. In fact, even if it wasn;t, there are very few forces in the universe that could knock earth out of its orbit, and none (to my knowledge) that could knock it entirely out of the solar system within 32 years. So I'm fairly sure it's safe to say that Earth is in Sol. Thus, it is not lost.
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Originally posted by ngtm1r
Why would it be radioactive?
The Lucifer's main guns are not nuclear weapons, and there is nothing in existing canon on which to base supposition that they generate radioactivity under any circumstances.
Just as there is no evidence to prove that it wasn't.
Originally posted by ngtm1r
Vasuda Prime recovered after the war; notation in the techroom regarding Vasuda Prime orbital shipyards producing the Bakha bomber;
There's your answer. Orbital.
Originally posted by ngtm1r
also notation in Intel brief on the Vasudans that the Emperor resides in the Imperial Palace on Vasuda Prime. Whether or not you believe it was terraformed is immaterial. It was restored to at least partial habitiblity, which implies some level of terraforming capablity. [/B]
:wtf:
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Originally posted by ngtm1r
The Lucifer's main guns are not nuclear weapons, and there is nothing in existing canon on which to base supposition that they generate radioactivity under any circumstances.
That's not true, though it's not the type of radiation you're refering to. Shivan weapons in general leave residual Mesonic particles in detectably high concentrations, and the concentration of particles from the Lucifer's guns is astronomically greater than that of strike craft-grade arms (FS Reference Bible). Therefore they produce some form of Mesonic radiation during firing. However, the better question is what effect do these particles have on living tissue (since that's the core concern for habitability) and FS canon doesn't say.
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Originally posted by karajorma
No it's not. If you look at the map to get to Deneb you either go Vasuda>>Antares>>Beta Aquilae>>Vega>>Deneb or Vasuda>>Alpha Centauri>>Sirius>>Deneb.
What nodemap are you looking at? The official one links Deneb to both Vasuda and Vega.
I think there's enough evidence that Vega could have been a contested system during FS1.
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Originally posted by Raa
Just as there is no evidence to prove that it wasn't.
Originally posted by Raa
But there's no evidence that it did, nor that it didn't. So it's immaterial. You cannot base suffering on speculation.
I leave you hoist by your own petard.
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From what i know theres no reason at all to belive mesons could be harmfull.
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Originally posted by ngtm1r
I leave you hoist by your own petard.
I knew you'd do that, but I am not basing suffering on it. ;)
Either way, I'm not actually sure what was stated on the beams of the lucifer, if anything.
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Originally posted by Goober5000
What nodemap are you looking at? The official one links Deneb to both Vasuda and Vega.
*Presses delete key* Bloody so called semi-official node maps :)
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I was just checking back to see if Vasudans are still leading the match.
They do. But "Me" are coming up pretty fast actually. :D
It would be fair enough IMO to assume that Terrans first met Vasudans somewhere around Antares, and most systems beyond Antares were controlled or at least known by Vasudans before the war. Seems logical that systems next to Beta Aquilae (Antares and Vega) were the first contested ones.
With Deneb and Vasuda heavily defended, the easiest way to go for Terrans (from Vega) was towards Capella, though Vasudans were probably there before. T supply lines in Vega must have been easily cut by V attacks from Deneb, so it was probably difficult to keep a steady foothold in Capella, and Terrans had no other choice than attacking Deneb.
This leads me to believe that at least some Vasudan population was surely there in both Vega and Capella when the Alliance was formed.
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My two sence for teh day. I know i speled it wrong on purpose.
Anyways, deneb. I cant beleive none of you said this sofar. I recall, GTA or GTVA command sendign 600,000 troops to take over Deneb from Bosch. Thus, thats a mega ground battle on deneb for you.
Vasuda? No, it was deneb.
And for the Vasudan Instalations, yeah, iv never noticed that before. But i just realized something. Remember in the Multi mission with the Shia (Sp?)? They let it sit right in the node like a instalation. I beleive now that Vasudans use Bigger Bolder Ticker ships as instalations.
Very smart if you ask me. Fortified, mobile, manned. Deployable anywhere. BUt then again, they must not have frighters like we do, or use them to lock on to 'instalatoins'.
Also, one ship i beleive to be a 'mobile instalation', in the Sirus Blockade, multiplayer mission. When we have our Promethus cap, what jumps in? A big dark ship with blue lights. Forgot name but it sure as hell looks like a instalation. Who would design a ship like that, if its for combat fully? Big, slow, and bulky?
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What ARE you talking about :wtf: The big dark ship with blue lights is almost certainly a Typhon, which is actually perhaps the most elegant of all FS1 ship designs.
Anyway, Vasudans have no installations in retail FS/FS2 because the story is told from the Terran perspective, in predominantly Terran systems, supporting Terran ships and installations. Consequently :v: never bothered making any, as they were never used. Does that mean they don't exist? Probably not. If Vasudans turned to space early in their species development, it seems to me that making habitable off-world installations would be a natural progression.
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:D
both species suffered, and you. there.
//-*Slaps Cobra* Stop abusing the HTML before it gets turned off again![/b]
RAA!!! come on, i'm not allowed to use HTML for fun? :D
//-As a general rule, no. It gets disabled when people do that.[/b]
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*Busts out FRED2*
Your right its a typhoon. Heh i was about to claim i knew what a typhoon was, but i mistook it for the hazelsprut.
Still, it looks more like a vasudan instalation (W\ engins) then a ship. Too bulky.
Anyone else understand what i tried to say?
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Moron. it's spelled TYPHON. Only one O. It's not an asian storm, it's an Egyptian mythological figure.
Jeez, I'm gonna bug an admin to make a turrent -like smilie for Typhon, too.
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Originally posted by Charismatic
typhoon.
hazelsprut.
typhoon = Typhon.
hazelsprut = Hatshepsut.
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When the hell did he call it a hazelsprut?! i should trout him for that alone! :hopping:
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Pretty simple in my mind.
Vasudans might've lost Vasuda, but they're more cerebral, depend on logistics, and overall I don't think it bugged them that much aside from the fact that it was a blow to morale.
On the other hand, Terrans lost Sol and Capella, and they're verging on the more emotional side, meaning it comes as a bigger blow to them.
Khonsu said "Damn Vasuda Prime is gone.....whatever.....Let's start building the Colossus, screw the fact that we should maybe accomodate the survivors of the Vasuda disaster - just ship those suckers to the Terrans, they'll take care of em".
Though, none of it compares to the Ancients, and the species that came before them. That was total obliteration to the power of depressve x10.
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Originally posted by Raa
Moron. it's spelled TYPHON. Only one O. It's not an asian storm, it's an Egyptian mythological figure.
Greek, actually.
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[q]Typhon is the offspring of Gaia and Tartarus. His mate is Echidna and both were so fearful that when the gods saw them they changed into animals and fled in terror. Typhon's hundred, horrible heads touched the stars, venom dripped from his evil eyes, and lava and red-hot stones poured from his gaping mouths. Hissing like a hundred snakes and roaring like a hundred lions, he tore up whole mountains and threw them at the gods.
Zeus soon regained his courage and turned, and when the other gods saw him taking his stand, they came back to help him fight the monster. A terrible battle raged, and hardly a living creature was left on Earth. But Zeus was fated to win, and as Typhon tore up huge Mount Aetna to hurl at the gods, Zeus struck it with a hundred well-aimed thunderbolts and the mountain fell back, pinning Typhon underneath. There the monster lies to this very day, belching fire, lava and smoke through the top of the mountain.
Echidna, his hideous mate, escaped destruction. She cowered in a cave, protecting Typhon's offspring, and Zeus let them live as a challenge to future heroes. Echidna and Typhon's children are the Nemean Lion, Cerberus, Ladon, the Chimera, the Sphinx, and the Hydra. [/q]
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Cerberus? The three headed dog from hell? heh, i can understand that. born from the mates from hell. :D
//Fixed.
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Is that supposed to be humour? :wtf:
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I don't know...
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holy ****, how did the other 2 posts get there? :wtf:
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you were typing something in another window, which IE thought were keyboard commands to go back, and hit submit again.
[q]From what i know theres no reason at all to belive mesons could be harmfull.[/q]
There was a meson BOMB... Obviously some charecteristic of mesons allow them to become extremely volatile and release enormous amounts of energy into surrounding particles. Considering that they made a big deal over the mesons detected in Ross 128 (RefBible), you can assume that they are not that common naturally, which could imply that they are unstable. None of this makes them dangerous, but most radioactive elements exibit the same charecteristics, and are often deadly.
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If i remember my sub-atomic particals from physics, mesons occur... screw it i'll look it up:
Main Entry: me·son
Pronunciation: 'mez-"än, 'mEz-, 'mEs-, 'mes-
Function: noun
: any of a group of unstable, strongly interacting nuclear particles that have a mass between that of an electron and a proton and that occur in more than one variety —me·son·ic
lamens: unstable+strong+interactive+nuclear+alot of them starting in a small space= BOOM
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Originally posted by FireCrack
From what i know theres no reason at all to belive mesons could be harmfull.
If mesons are the mediators of force interactions within the atom, it strinkes me that by manipulating them you could create a very big bang indeed. Chances are that's how the moeson bomb works - stick a great big hunk of dense matter (Lead or Uranium or something) inside that glowey blue thing and have it eliminate the mediation effect of the Mesons (That's what big blue glowey things are for). That's gotta do something.
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Think of a fragmentation warhead where the schrapnel(sp) are subatomic charged particals moving at greater than the speed of light. Because the particals are so small there would most likely be some kind of chain reaction with whatever is caught in the effective range of the meson's themselves. IE anything in that region would not only be vaporized but its mass would add to the explosive force of the explosion.
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Pff.
It's obvious, really. Meson bombs work because they are powered by magic pixie dust.
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:wtf: :lol:
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Clearly it was me. The amount of hours I lost to that game... who knows what I could've done in that time. ;7
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Pff.
It's obvious, really. Meson bombs work because they are powered by magic pixie dust.
I thought it was Plot Devices, Inc., but oh well.
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Originally posted by Fade Rathnik
particals moving at greater than the speed of light.
err...
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Originally posted by Black Wolf
If mesons are the mediators of force interactions within the atom, it strinkes me that by manipulating them you could create a very big bang indeed. Chances are that's how the moeson bomb works - stick a great big hunk of dense matter (Lead or Uranium or something) inside that glowey blue thing and have it eliminate the mediation effect of the Mesons (That's what big blue glowey things are for). That's gotta do something.
Mesons arent what mediates the NSF, Gluons are. Mesons are particles composed of an even number of quarks. The meson bomb liklely works by smashing baryons (particles of 3 quarks such as protons and neutrons) or some larger hardon and split them into mesons. THe residual mass loss would generate enregy. Think subnucleuar fission, ofcourse it could just as easily be fusion and work the other way.
Anyways, i was refering to residual meson radiation, wich probably is'nt alot nor are the mesons moving at high speed.
Fade, mesons dont move faster than light, you're thinking tachyons.
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Apparently, according to the Poll, I've suffered more than the Terrans! :D
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Huzzah! I was right!
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Originally posted by ngtm1r
I thought it was Plot Devices, Inc., but oh well.
No, they manufacture Magical Pixie Dust (and One-size-fits-all Plot Holes, but they don't like to advertise that as much).
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@ the last page riot: Iv always called it a Hazelsprut, cause i never said the name rigth off of a first glance. Takes too much to say it.
@ raa: That new simley would be funny. Go ahead. Hehe.
I suck at spelling as you all notice.
We have more science wizz's here at HLP then we do in a medium sized city. Nice..
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'Hazelsprut' makes me remember 'Hazelnut'
Confusing. I don't want to consider the Psamptik a giant hazelnut with beams!
Originally posted by kietotheworld
Huzzah! I was right!
Nobody is right in a discussion where we do not know exact numbers. If we had a lot of canon statistics at our disposal, we would be able to objectively conclude who suffered more.
But if we had one, there would be no discussion about it. :)
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Going back to whether Capella was Terran or Vasudan, i think that you could probably sit on a mix of both (I'm not saying even, but they probably weren't huge differernce), since there are both terran and vasudan ships in the evacuation, and i hardly belive that comand would send freighters there to load them up and take them back... While that would make sense if just relocating, the shivans were a huge risk at the time...
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Originally posted by Charismatic
@ the last page riot: Iv always called it a Hazelsprut, cause i never said the name rigth off of a first glance. Takes too much to say it.
I suck at spelling as you all notice.
Hatshepsut. That's how it is spelled.
And you are, what, almost 18 years old, and can't even bother to spell properly? :blah: Wonders of the American education system, right?
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What can any Educational system do to make people spell the name of an Egyptian myth figure properly? You can't teach all mythological figures. I don't think it's a shame on spelling, it's rather a shame on his circumspection(I don't know if it is the right word).
The 'Iv' spelling instead of 'I've' is probably a pure spelling mistake, while the 'rigth' spelling instead of 'right' is rather a typing mistake.
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Originally posted by TopAce
What can any Educational system do to make people spell the name of an Egyptian myth figure properly? You can't teach all mythological figures. I don't think it's a shame on spelling, it's rather a shame on his circumspection(I don't know if it is the right word).
The 'Iv' spelling instead of 'I've' is probably a pure spelling mistake, while the 'rigth' spelling instead of 'right' is rather a typing mistake.
Most education systems teach people to remember spelling in general. With long words, by breaking them up into phoneme groups.
i.e. Hatshepsut; hat-shep-sut
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And do you think the US system does not?
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I have no idea whether they do or not.
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Originally posted by TopAce
'Hazelsprut' makes me remember 'Hazelnut'
Confusing. I don't want to consider the Psamptik a giant hazelnut with beams!
Psamtik!
And u all missed something- the Snuffleupagans suffered the greatest losses by far!
BTW I voted 'me' because I couldn't decide...
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Originally posted by TopAce
What can any Educational system do to make people spell the name of an Egyptian myth figure properly? You can't teach all mythological figures. I don't think it's a shame on spelling, it's rather a shame on his circumspection(I don't know if it is the right word).
I wasn't referring to the Hatshepsut, but the lack of proper spelling. "I" is not written "i", for example.
I didn't mean to offend Charismatic, I just wanted to say that proper spelling greatly helps to understand what someone is saying. That's all.
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Originally posted by SuperCoolAl
Psamtik!
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I have seen this ship's name spelt with a 'p' and without it, too. The mission where it is destroyed spelt with as 'Psamtik', but mission 1 spelt it as Psamptik, if I remember correctly.
Even though, I don't know which spelling is the correct one, I have never looked it up.
[EDIT] You were right that it is spelt correctly as Psamtik, but I am sure the FS2 campaign spells it both ways.
Originally posted by Andreas
I wasn't referring to the Hatshepsut, but the lack of proper spelling. "I" is not written "i", for example.
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He simply did not use the Shift. That's all. I bet he would write I normally, in an exam or test, or generally everywhere where he does not have to switch SHIFT.
Originally posted by SuperCoolAl
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And u all missed something- the Snuffleupagans suffered the greatest losses by far!
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Snuffleupagus! :D
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The egyptian ruler was called & spelled Psamtik; I'd imagine that would be the intended spelling.
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I do not recall it ever being spelt with an extra p, but there is a music track called 'Psampik' i believe
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I wish I had FRED these days, I would be able to contradict myself :D
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Thanks for the correction on the partical speed thing
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Nobody expects the physics inquisition ;)
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Muahahahahahaha!
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Originally posted by Flipside
Nobody expects the physics inquisition ;)
There are people, but not in THIS community. :o
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There are people, but not in THIS community.
Not necessarily.....
Had someone mistaken Tachyons and Mesons in my house they would be shot as heretics!!!
:snipe:
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:nod: :ha:
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i think we should also think of what we count as a loss....i know this is just complicating things...
but say for instence...if say the queen dies...all countries "governed" by her wil stop for mourning..where if someone ffrom a 3rd world country dies...they dont even get a mension or even recoreded dead...this happens in our own society....(i said "governed" cause australians dont really give a poo what happens in england)
so perhaps if we take in importance to people like for instance...terrens would have lost alot of people on earth....where the vasudans still have thier emporer...and probably most of there other "important" people since they would have gotton out first...
just a speculation...
edit: i think that there are alot of people who like..or just know...physics here...me included....its great :) has anyone ever built a solenoid big enough to propell something fast enough to be used as a weapon? hee hee
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http://www.powerlabs.org/railguncurrent.htm