Post by: Trivial Psychic on May 26, 2005, 07:53:38 pm
In my time of playing FS2, I've occasionally found things that didn't appear to make sense. I'm not sure exactly why they're there, so I was hoping that perhaps someone else knows.
1) Why does the Sathanas table entry have an awacs entry in it? I didn't know that a Sath was also an AWACS.
2) In mission 9 of the FS2 where you have to escort the supplies for the Colossus through an asteroid belt, while flying Perseus fighters, I've recently noticed a pair of Elysium class transports in the area. In all my time playing this game, I never noticed them before. They usually get destroyed by asteroids, but why are they there. Is there a bonus objective for saving them?
If you too have questions along these lines, ask them here.
Post by: Taristin on May 26, 2005, 08:01:17 pm
2) I've never noticed that.
Post by: Kosh on May 26, 2005, 08:06:28 pm
1.) How did the SD Ravana knock off so many GTVA capitalships while taking so little damage? The Delecroix by itself should have been able to do a fair amount of damage to it.
2.) In "Their finest hour", why do none of the GTVA capital ships deployed (except for the Colossus) not fire their beams against the enemy capital ships? Why do they keep going back and forth IN FRONT of the node, right in the path of the incoming shivan capships? Any decent commander would know that is stupid.
Post by: Cobra on May 26, 2005, 08:25:53 pm
2) Probably for bringing in the supplies from the freighters to the Colossus.
Post by: Trivial Psychic on May 26, 2005, 08:26:46 pm
Quote
Originally posted by KoshRavana:
1.) How did the SD Ravana knock off so many GTVA capitalships while taking so little damage? The Delecroix by itself should have been able to do a fair amount of damage to it.
LReds X 2, SReds X 2
100000 hp
Orion (assuming Delecroix is that class):
BGreens X 3, TerSlashs X 3
100000 hp
LRed:
firewait 10
dammage 600
duration 7
SRed:
firewait 25
dammage 200
duration 3.8
BGreen:
firewait 30
dammage 1200
duration 4
TerSlash:
firewait 10
dammage 350
duration 2
Orion can only bring a maximum of 2 of each of its beam cannon types to bear on a single target, so that's about 4 beams, the same as the Ravana. Big drawback for an Orion, is the BGreen, which while poweful, is severely hampered by its 30 second firewait, and 4 second duration. Compare that to the LRed, which may inflict only half the dammage per seconcd, but it both fires 3 times as often and for almost twice as long per shot. Sure, the TerSlash matches the LRed for firewait, but it only lasts 2 seconds and does little more than half its dammage per second. Advantage, LRed... advantage Ravana.
Post by: Cobra on May 26, 2005, 08:30:07 pm
2) How can a destroyed subspace portal stabilize a subspace node?
Post by: phreak on May 26, 2005, 09:01:06 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Trivial Psychic
1) Why does the Sathanas table entry have an awacs entry in it? I didn't know that a Sath was also an AWACS.
The weapons subsystem has an AWACS entry so the Shivans can shoot at you whenever you scan the weapons on the Sath
Post by: Taristin on May 26, 2005, 09:17:49 pm
Post by: WeatherOp on May 26, 2005, 09:22:03 pm
Post by: phreak on May 26, 2005, 09:28:52 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Raa
scanning the subsystem activates teh awacs tag? :wtf:
or going near it allows shivans to shoot you more easily.
Post by: Kosh on May 26, 2005, 09:40:49 pm
Quote
Orion can only bring a maximum of 2 of each of its beam cannon types to bear on a single target, so that's about 4 beams, the same as the Ravana. Big drawback for an Orion, is the BGreen, which while poweful, is severely hampered by its 30 second firewait, and 4 second duration. Compare that to the LRed, which may inflict only half the dammage per seconcd, but it both fires 3 times as often and for almost twice as long per shot. Sure, the TerSlash matches the LRed for firewait, but it only lasts 2 seconds and does little more than half its dammage per second. Advantage, LRed... advantage Ravana.
Yes, I am not questioning that the Ravana would win. But the Delecroix and all the other things command sent against it should have done more than 8% or so of damage, IIRC.
Post by: Carl on May 26, 2005, 09:40:58 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Cobra
2) How can a destroyed subspace portal stabilize a subspace node?
it's not like a rubber band, where it'll snap back into position. once it's stabilized, then it's stabilized permanenty.
Post by: Charismatic on May 26, 2005, 10:12:47 pm
Then alpha 1 comes in and takes it out.
Post by: NGTM-1R on May 26, 2005, 10:29:09 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Trivial Psychic
2) In mission 9 of the FS2 where you have to escort the supplies for the Colossus through an asteroid belt, while flying Perseus fighters, I've recently noticed a pair of Elysium class transports in the area. In all my time playing this game, I never noticed them before. They usually get destroyed by asteroids, but why are they there. Is there a bonus objective for saving them?
It appears (based on the fact they seem to have been issued dock commands) they're supposed to be hooked up to ships of the convoy. This makes some sense (the Elysiums would ferry material from the convoy to the Colossus: the Colossus has no dockpoints AFAIK, and its fighterbay can't handle Tritons or gas miners), but the dock order seems to have misfired. The Elysiums don't ever move.
Come to think of it, this would seem to be the opposite problem of how the Colossus will charge at the node in "Their Finest Hour", no matter what Goober tries.
Post by: Cobra on May 26, 2005, 10:44:19 pm
Quote
2) Probably for bringing in the supplies from the freighters to the Colossus.
Post by: Goober5000 on May 26, 2005, 10:48:38 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Trivial PsychicUnless there's an AWACS present, the AI cannot target stealth fighters in a nebula environment. As for why it's on the communications subsystem (not weapons), that subsystem is centered on the "head" of the model and provides the best forward coverage.
1) Why does the Sathanas table entry have an awacs entry in it? I didn't know that a Sath was also an AWACS.
Quote
2) In mission 9 of the FS2 where you have to escort the supplies for the Colossus through an asteroid belt, while flying Perseus fighters, I've recently noticed a pair of Elysium class transports in the area. In all my time playing this game, I never noticed them before. They usually get destroyed by asteroids, but why are they there?I think they're supposed to arrive at the same time as the Colossus, but :v: forgot to change the arrival cue. They haul the cargo over to the Colossus.
Post by: Cobra on May 26, 2005, 10:56:04 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Goober5000
I think they're supposed to arrive at the same time as the Colossus, but :v: forgot to change the arrival cue. They haul the cargo over to the Colossus.
maybe that could be fixed in the SCP version of FS2 campaign? :D
Post by: WMCoolmon on May 27, 2005, 12:47:53 am
Quote
Originally posted by Cobra
2) How can a destroyed subspace portal stabilize a subspace node?
My take on it was that either A) the node was never destabilized, and the sensor readings were wrong (for whatever reason) or B) the portal stabilized because the Sathanas was already in transit; either the presence of a ship kept it stble, or the Sathanas was able to emit a subspace stabilization field of unknown strength.
Post by: Kie99 on May 27, 2005, 01:26:18 am
Quote
In the Great Hunt, why is the Asuras a Cain, when it is suposed to be a Lilith
Because a lilith can take out a Deimos, especially one that's already been bombed.
Post by: NGTM-1R on May 27, 2005, 01:58:56 am
Quote
Originally posted by Cobra
2) How can a destroyed subspace portal stabilize a subspace node?
You've assumed a biconditional, but it is not necessarily so. Naturally stable subspace nodes exist, and it is not unreasonable to assume that, once stablized, even if the stablizing influence is removed, that node will remain stable of its own accord for some time.
Post by: aldo_14 on May 27, 2005, 04:32:43 am
Quote
Originally posted by Kosh
Here's mine:
1.) How did the SD Ravana knock off so many GTVA capitalships while taking so little damage? The Delecroix by itself should have been able to do a fair amount of damage to it.
It sounds better in the briefing. :)
Post by: Knight Templar on May 27, 2005, 05:08:20 am
It's not that hard to imagine how they could lose a destroyer. It's not like a ****ty FRED mission, you can't just assume that numbers will win when there is a story to tell.
Post by: Black13 on May 27, 2005, 09:02:23 am
What happened to Bosch
What was the point of nova-ing capella
Where did the Knossos portal go
Where did the nebular knossos go
Here is one that might be answerable though
How long does a trip through subspace take? Someone who is relatively strong with physics should be able to figure it out based on the info (amount of time) you get to blow the lucifer's reactors.
Post by: Ghostavo on May 27, 2005, 09:55:59 am
Quote
Originally posted by Black13
Where did the nebular knossos go
Have you played "Into the Lion's Den"?
Post by: aldo_14 on May 27, 2005, 10:59:36 am
Quote
Originally posted by Black13
What were the Shivan Com Nodes for
Possibly part of a long-range communications network that alerted the Shivans to the opened knossos and then co-ordinated the Sathanas armada (the destruction of them explaining the destruction of several Sathani in the nova and possibly the 'failure' - if it was - of what the Shivans wanted to do
What happened to Bosch
Taken by the Shivans. I personally reckon he (and the rest of the taken NTF) was tortured for information and then torn to pieces. Some reckon he's brokered some form of alliance/mutual interest between the Shivans and survives.
What was the point of nova-ing capella
Possibly an easy way to seize the system. Or a way to generate a new nebula for resources. Or to create some form of 'supernode'.
Where did the Knossos portal go
Into Shivan space
Where did the nebular knossos go
Into Shivan space (again).
IIRC Command states that this region (when entering the nebula for the first time) might be where the Ancients first encountered the Shivans. I'd expect the last knossos in that chain to lead to that system; perhaps the Knossos in GD was shut down as the Ancients retreated.
(note that this means the Knossos was built after that nebula was created)
Here is one that might be answerable though
How long does a trip through subspace take? Someone who is relatively strong with physics should be able to figure it out based on the info (amount of time) you get to blow the lucifer's reactors.
Quickly, but not instantly (albiet close to in the case of intrasystem jumps); it seems to depend upon distance AFAIK; I think it's left purposely vague for plot freedom; take the NTF ship being tracked for a wee bit of time before arriving in the very first mission.
Post by: Black13 on May 27, 2005, 11:24:11 am
Quote
Where did the Knossos portal go
Into Shivan space
Where did the nebular knossos go
Into Shivan space (again).
IIRC Command states that this region (when entering the nebula for the first time) might be where the Ancients first encountered the Shivans. I'd expect the last knossos in that chain to lead to that system; perhaps the Knossos in GD was shut down as the Ancients retreated.
(note that this means the Knossos was built after that nebula was created)
Right, I guess what I should have asked was - where in the galaxy were / did these gates take you to. I know that in FS1 the Ancients talk about how in their home galaxy they found no advanced life, and it wasn't until opening subspace gates to other galaxys that they found life forms of equal power.
I wonder if the knossoses were actually the gates that left the galaxy and I wonder if the GTVA realized that.
Post by: Ghostavo on May 27, 2005, 12:46:06 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Black13
I know that in FS1 the Ancients talk about how in their home galaxy they found no advanced life, and it wasn't until opening subspace gates to other galaxys that they found life forms of equal power.
:wtf:
Post by: aldo_14 on May 27, 2005, 01:03:33 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Ghostavo
:wtf:
You've never noticed the Ancients monologues? they talk about exploring to other star systems, conquering other worlds and only after that of discovering subspace.
EDIT; albeit they did discover advanced life in their / this galaxy, only not as advanced as they were.
[q]Ours was a proud people, and always the strongest. For thousands of years our empire expanded. For so long we could imagine ourselves alone in the universe. For so long never did we encounter advanced life. And we travelled faster and further spreading in our galaxy and before long we could see the day when our reachable systems would have been exploited. And then there would be nowhere else to go.
And we discovered subspace. It gave us our galaxy and it gave us the universe. And we saw other advanced life. And we subdued it or we crushed it. In months the extermination of billions of years of evolution on a similar but slower path. With subspace our empire would surely know no boundaries.[/q]
[q]
When we conquered and colonised in galaxies where we had no place the destruction and the anguish and the loss were the clarion call of our doom. And so the destroyers came for us[/q]
I tend to think that's poetic rather than literal story, though; FS2 makes it pretty clear IMO that the Ancients had a vast empire, but not one spanning the (this) entire galaxy.
Post by: Ghostavo on May 27, 2005, 01:42:39 pm
1- The ancients were from another galaxy (it is a possibility, but not something we can be sure of, and it gives a few doubts about the lucifer clues in Altair IIRC)
and 2- about them only discovering inteligent life outside of their galaxy
Post by: karajorma on June 01, 2005, 10:59:46 am
Quote
Ours was a proud people, and always the strongest. For thousands of years our empire expanded. For so long we could imagine ourselves alone in the universe. For so long never did we encounter advanced life. And we travelled faster and further spreading in our galaxy and before long we could see the day when our reachable systems would have been exploited. And then there would be nowhere else to go.
And we discovered subspace. It gave us our galaxy and it gave us the universe. And we saw other advanced life. And we subdued it or we crushed it. In months the extermination of billions of years of evolution on a similar but slower path. With subspace our empire would surely know no boundaries.
It's obvious that the ancients must have had some sort of interstellar (possibly even FTL) travel before they discovered subspace. They say that their limit was reachable systems but in the Milky Way their is no such boundry. A race could spread all the way to very near the core.
The ancients being from another galaxy ties in quite nicely with Petrach's comments about the Shivans trying to get home. Maybe they aren't from this galaxy either?
As for why their galaxy is devoid of life... Am I the only one who can think of a species with a reputation for wiping out entire species which was around when the ancients were? :D
Post by: Lone Knight on June 01, 2005, 07:07:57 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Black13
What was the point of nova-ing capella.
Black13, my only advice to you is to read the Shivan Manefesto. It makes very good pointers and answered A LOT of questions I had on Shivans.
I think the Shivans did it for one easy reason.
Petrach (did I spell that right?) said in the ending movie something like the nova created a bridge between our world and the Shivan world. I think the nova created a subspace node, hence the weird subspacy stuff coming from the Juggernauts. Maybe the Shivans somehow controlled where the node would connect to?
My other thought is that the Shivans were afraid of us!!! May seem incredible, but with the Collossus, they could have thought that we had a fleet of 'em. They apparently had never encountered a race with (perhaps) equally dangerous technology, and what they coulda believed, just as many in numbers. They did it for self preservation, maybe to gather more forces to strike when they saw fit?
Hokay, this is my question:
Do you think the the Lucifer had the invincible shields because they were off smoking another race, perhaps with these Shields. The Luci mighta gotten this tech since it was the flagship of this particular assault force and carried it back home. On the way back, they were going through unexplored systems on the fringes of GTA and PVN space, and a few scouts accidentily bumped into Terrans and Vasudans.
That could explain why they were so heavily armed with so many fighters, and destroyers, eliminating the idea that they were just "scouts". I mean, if the real Shivan empire invaded, not just remnants of a mostly decimated assault force, Terrans wouldda gotten their butts whooped.
What do you think?
Post by: Boomer on June 01, 2005, 09:04:22 pm
Quote
Do you think the the Lucifer had the invincible shields because they were off smoking another race, perhaps with these Shields. The Luci mighta gotten this tech since it was the flagship of this particular assault force and carried it back home. On the way back, they were going through unexplored systems on the fringes of GTA and PVN space, and a few scouts accidentily bumped into Terrans and Vasudans.
It would make sense. The Shivans may have ignored us if they had another target in mind, so it makes sense they were going home and decided to exterminate these two pesky races so they wouldn't have to come back later. And I think everyone can agree that if the Shivans were really all that concerned about us in the first place we would all be dead by now.
Now here's mine:
1) In humanity's two encounters with the Shivans, were the Shivans even concerned about our existence and bent on our destruction? Or are they just trying to get home?
2)What the **** is Command smoking?
3)Where can I get some?;7
My current theory is they're supplied by the Snuffleupagans.:D
Post by: Charismatic on June 01, 2005, 09:57:31 pm
I dont think the lucys sheilds were impenetratable. The colossus with its bigger and many guns coulda smoked it, takeing some damage of corce (Sp?).
What exactly did Petrach say about the nova and shivans and some sort of brige that was stated perviously?
And i sorta agree with the Shivans being afraid of us. We are the only ones who put up a fight, IMO. I dont beleive they thought we had a fleet of them. They knew us enough to know we were weak. They could have curshed us. Maby they had to split cause somethign was following them?
1)What was command smokeing. Hehe. Some pritty good **** IMO.
And for the record, we Did get our butt's whiped around the galexy. And to answer the 'why do our caps fight them head on?' question. It goes like this in the captains mind. "Shivans! Omg! Wtfomgmustkillahhhhrun****mustgoahhhdosomethigndosomethingomgomgomg!" so they charge them. Paranoid if you ask me..
Post by: Lone Knight on June 02, 2005, 04:40:10 pm
Will the Technician: Captain, we've got a target entering subspace. IFF reads a Shivan target!
Captain: SHIVANS?! I'll tell ya what! *hiccup* we're gonna charge em' head on, laddies!!!!
Will the Technician: Ch-charge them, Captain?
Captain: OF COARSE CHARGE THEM!!!! THEY'VE STOLEN THE AQUITAINE!!! WE GOTTA GET IT BACK!
Will the Techician: Captain, we're on the Aquitaine!
Captain: HOLY CRAP! THEY'RE NOT GONNA TAKE US WITHOUT A FIGHT!!!!! *hiccup*
Will the Technician: Uh....Gunnery Control, the Captain urges an immediate assault.
Gunner: Roger that. Fire at will! I repeat fire at will!
Captain: FIRE AT WILL? *Pulls out gun from Hall Fight Scene*
SORRY IT HAD TO END THIS WAY WILL!!!!!
*Aquitaine, during all this confusion charges headfirst into the Shivan ship, which only ends up to be a SSG Trident Sentry gun...
Post by: Charismatic on June 02, 2005, 07:32:02 pm
Post by: Goober5000 on June 02, 2005, 07:54:44 pm
A cookie to whoever can complete that quote. ;)
Post by: Fade Rathnik on June 02, 2005, 08:40:53 pm
tail spin
Post by: Goober5000 on June 02, 2005, 09:58:43 pm
He didn't say "the", but you got it. :)
Post by: Fade Rathnik on June 02, 2005, 10:10:05 pm
Post by: Goober5000 on June 02, 2005, 10:28:27 pm
Post by: Fade Rathnik on June 02, 2005, 11:27:37 pm
MMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmm COOOOOOKIEEEE :::::CHOMP:::::
Post by: psycho_fergo on June 08, 2005, 10:38:05 am
so we could go back 8000 years ago...and since at this time..the ancients could be totally crazy advanced...you wouldnt really be going back in time...you would be really going forward in technology..and perhaps even the shivans too....since they probably had to bring a much more powerful force to wipe em out...you know...it doesnt HAVE to be the lucifer that wiped em out..they have fleets of saths..so why not sheilded lucis...
thats what i think..
by the way...is tehre anywhere to download all the fs1 movies..since i havent seen these....and i wanna watch this so called "hall fight"
Post by: pyro-manic on June 08, 2005, 10:52:04 am
I think an ancients campaign could be interesting - there are some Ancients mods around, particularly in the Inferno campaign (though some are, erm, a bit crappy) so it is feasible. You'd have to have a serious redesign of the interface, HUD and weapons, though, and one hell of a script-writer to make it any good...
Post by: psycho_fergo on June 08, 2005, 11:01:15 am
wepons is easy....
nothing really new in any regaurds if you just look at inferno...you can see it is pretty prossible....and if you follow of that big ancients ship u find in the inferno data base...it refers to killing a few of the new and bigger crazy shiven ships in inferno...
and when i said...fleet of licifers..i meant as in..there were lots of lucifers...like you know how many sathanases there were? im talkin that many lucis...or more...since they are less powerful...
Post by: Cobra on June 08, 2005, 12:58:50 pm
Quote
Originally posted by pyro-manic
The ancients wouldn't really be much more advanced than Terrans or Vasudans - don't forget they were wiped out by the Shivans, whereas the GTVA has thus far managed to survive. As far as I'm aware, it was a Lucifer fleet that destroyed them (they found out how to track it through subspace to bypass it's sheilds, but by that time they had lost their entire fleet, and so had no way to attack it), although the war may have been rather protracted, with the Lucifer only appearing late-on - perhaps after the Ancients managed to destroy some of the Demon-class destroyers they had already encountered.
maybe there were so many Shivans that the Ancients couldn't handle them all?
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 08, 2005, 04:18:45 pm
Post by: psycho_fergo on June 09, 2005, 01:51:54 pm
Post by: Nuclear1 on June 09, 2005, 02:49:26 pm
Quote
Originally posted by ngtm1r
And maybe there weren't?
More than likely. The Ancients said themselves:
Quote
But they were not like the others; these did not die.
So, in that context, it is unlikely that the Ancients managed to kill any Shivans to our knowledge. For all that matters, it could have been one group of invincible cruisers marching through their space with the Lucy tagging along to destroy the Ancients' home planet.
This would really work best if we merged it with the "Beams, Shivans, and the Great War" thread. There's a lot of stuff in there that would go along with what we're talking about in here.
Post by: aldo_14 on June 09, 2005, 05:11:34 pm
Post by: Lone Knight on June 09, 2005, 05:39:40 pm
Nobody say they looked like E.T. or I will smack them!
Post by: karajorma on June 09, 2005, 05:44:33 pm
Post by: Lone Knight on June 09, 2005, 06:00:56 pm
Here it is!!!!!
\/ \/ \/
Post by: Nuclear1 on June 09, 2005, 06:28:41 pm
[list=1]
- Spam, and
- a bad joke, which is a much more heinous crime.
:doubt:
Post by: Lone Knight on June 09, 2005, 08:42:52 pm
Post by: Unknown Target on June 09, 2005, 09:03:22 pm
Post by: Alpha_Monkey on June 10, 2005, 08:40:28 am
Haven't had much luck on google....
Post by: Singh on June 10, 2005, 09:05:25 am
It seems rather.....odd.......the nebula beyond Gamma Draconis. Bosch mentioned the star was from a nova god knows how many light years from Earth...but there are two Knossos portals here. But to get a subspace node, you need gravitational objects such a planets and stars, right? Would either be present in the remnants of the supernova? The existance of nodes here suggests that either
a. They are strong enough to survive a supernova, which was triggered after they were placed there.
or
b. The Ancients did indeed have FTL travel and discovered the Nebula, and then installed the nodes there.
If (a) is true, then does it mean that hte node to Gamma Draconis is still operational from the nebula?
if b. is true, it leads to the conclusion that for the Shivans to have achieved complete extinction of the ancient species, they must have possesed a similar FTL device, otherwise the ancients would have simply hid here and there. Perhaps it may also indicate the Shivans dont actually need nodes to travel....or more shockingly, that they ahve a fleet that does not have this requirement at all??!
Post by: aldo_14 on June 10, 2005, 09:27:10 am
I think, if the ancinets did have FTL travel without nodes, it would raise a question as to why they felt the need to build Knossos devices atall, and particularly why in that location.
Post by: Boomer on June 10, 2005, 09:59:14 am
Quote
I think, if the ancinets did have FTL travel without nodes, it would raise a question as to why they felt the need to build Knossos devices atall, and particularly why in that location.
Why wouldn't the Ancients want to use subspace travel whenever they could? Even with a nodeless FTL drive, subspace can get you from Delta Serpentis to Sol in about seven minutes. Assuming that DS is farther away than Alpha Centauri, (which in reality is the closest system to Sol), It would take years at the speed of light or at the very least months or weeks to make the journey with an FTL drive.
*NOTE: I am assuming a Star Trek style warp scale, but anyway you juggle it, no FTL drive is going to outrun subspace node travel. Unless you bring freespace to another universe*
Post by: Nuclear1 on June 10, 2005, 01:33:44 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Alpha_Monkey
where would one find the reference bible thingy and/or the Shivan Manifesto, out of curiousity.
Haven't had much luck on google....
Here (http://www.volition-inc.com/fs/downloads/fsrefbible.zip) is the Freespace Ref Bible, right off of V's webpage.
And here (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,18138.0.html) is the Shivan Manifesto. All brought to you by the magic Search button!
Post by: Lone Knight on June 10, 2005, 02:51:49 pm
Post by: Kie99 on June 10, 2005, 02:53:44 pm