Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: EtherShock on June 11, 2005, 11:34:55 am
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For years we've speculated what it might be like for the first generation of Star Wars fans who watch the saga "in order"... Episode I, II, III then IV, V and VI.
I haven't watch the OT after seeing the prequels yet, but have you noticed any of these? (http://blogs.starwars.com/ghent/15) The one thing I can think of is the Obi-Wan/droids connection, but I quickly realized the answer to that myself. He does recognize them, sort of.
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Well, for the droids, it's just like the blog explained. Obi-Wan was probably trying to keep quiet about talking about Luke's father (or at least R2's connection to his father), but then Luke brought up his father at Obi-Wan's home.
That, or Lucas simply made a biiigg mistake in throwing R2 and 3PO into the prequels :p
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- after recognizing the Tantive IV corridore, "Hey, they didn't have all those people in there before. Where did they get them."
What a stupid question is this? 22 years pass between EpIII and IV. During this time, the crew can change.
- later in that same scene, "Are the Republic troops clones too? They all look the same?" (Of course, by Republic troops he meant what we've always called Rebels. But being on an Alderaan ship... who is correct?)
:wtf: The rebels are not all the same.
- "Wow! Is the Death Star done already? I guess that's how you know that a long time has passed."
This whole Death Star thing is stupid. Ignore. :p
- "Look... Obi-Wan is pretending he doesn't know R2-D2." (see Hole/No-hole: Why doesn't Obi-Wan remember R2? )
R2 has never been Obi-Wans. Remember, his droid was destroyed in the battle above Coruscant in the open scene of EpIII.
- in Ben's hut: "Where is Qui-Gon? I thought Obi-Wan was supposed to be training with him?"
:wtf: Why is Qui-Gon supposed to be with Obi-Wan? What I don't understand in Obi-Wan is that he claimed to have been apprenticed to Yoda, which is apparently untrue.
- as C-3PO throws a Jawa body on the pile... "Do you think that R2-D2 started that fire with his jet rockets?"
In a desert, it's not difficult to set fire. I think R2 could have done it, not with the jet rocket, an Astromech droid is quite versatile.
- "How can the Emperor dissolve the Senate? Didn't he destroy it trying to kill Yoda?"
They could have reconstructed the chamber.
- "Is Chewbacca the only Wookiee that survives the Clone Wars?" (with great concern)
The Wookies won on Kashyyyk and they were not hunted by the Empire.
- "Why don't those ships need Hyperspace rings?"
Only the Jedi starfighter needs hyperspace rings.
- "So, does this mean that R2-D2 is really the main character in Star Wars?"
The Skywalker family members are the main characters.
- and finally, though not prequel-provoked, "Why are red leader and gold leader the leaders? They don't know what they're doing..."
Red leader in EpIV was a pro and experienced pilot. Gold leader was Lando Calrissian, he quite knew what he was doing. The destroyed the main reactor after all.
Originally posted by nuclear1
Well, for the droids, it's just like the blog explained. Obi-Wan was probably trying to keep quiet about talking about Luke's father (or at least R2's connection to his father), but then Luke brought up his father at Obi-Wan's home.
That, or Lucas simply made a biiigg mistake in throwing R2 and 3PO into the prequels :p
I don't like the droids in the prequel, to be honest. They did not spoil the prequels too much.
A bit off-topic, but I think Jar Jar was a good character in EpI, it's good that in EpII and EpIII, he was omitted. Lucas does know what he is doing. :)
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[color=66ff00]Bear in mind that it's a seven year old kid asking those questions TopAce so you can expect a few seemingly 'dumb questions'.
In a related note I saw the Clone Wars animated series today, it far surpasses the prequels for action and content IMHO.
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Red leader in EpIV was a pro and experienced pilot. Gold leader was Lando Calrissian, he quite knew what he was doing. The destroyed the main reactor after all.
I think he means Gold Leader from Ep. IV -- the Y-Wing pilots who got toasted by Vader on the first trench run (Stay on target...).
I don't like the droids in the prequel, to be honest. They did not spoil the prequels too much.
A bit off-topic, but I think Jar Jar was a good character in EpI, it's good that in EpII and EpIII, he was omitted. Lucas does know what he is doing.
Which is why I stand by my first statement in that quoted sentence. :nod:
In a related note I saw the Clone Wars animated series today, it far surpasses the prequels for action and content IMHO.
Indeed. It was one of the best animated series that I've seen in a very long time.
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Originally posted by nuclear1
I think he means Gold Leader from Ep. IV -- the Y-Wing pilots who got toasted by Vader on the first trench run (Stay on target...).
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What can any pilot do in a sluggish craft like the Y-wing against agile TIEs?
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Originally posted by TopAce
What can any pilot do in a sluggish craft like the Y-wing against agile TIEs?
[color=66ff00]Pray and hope their ion gunner's a good shot. :)
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Originally posted by TopAce
What can any pilot do in a sluggish craft like the Y-wing against agile TIEs?
"Do a barrel roll!"
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[color=66ff00]I was thinking about how utterly pants it would be to watch the movies in numerical order.
You know Luke has a sister, you know that Vader's his dad, you know that the mysterious Jedi master on Degobah is a half meter tall green alien. It takes wonderful revelations and turns them into a series of bland facts.
Way to piss on the story line for a new generation.
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Dunno, I've always found the whole Leia-sister thing sketchy, at best.
What bothers me is people talking about remaking Star Wars...I don't want to see what would happen if GL decided to re-do the OT with his new vision. (I'm sad to say)
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Originally posted by WMCoolmon
remaking Star Wars
Originally posted by Mark Hamill
NNOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo!!!!
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Something I realised would have been insanely fun in the prequels would be if Yoda on the council always referred to Yoda in the 3rd person to all non-Jedi masters, making people assume that Master Yoda is this strange, powerful being who is never there in person.
Yoda then fights the Emporer, once again claiming that his master Yoda is displeased with the Emporer's manipulations, etc. This would be the one time Yoda is seen fighting and it's the big epic force/sabers/etc. battle that then led to the Emporer being disfigured.
Yoda then mentions to Bail about how he must go into exile to tell his master of what happened.
The Jedi Council has off-comments about Yoda's eccentricities, which the audience may assume is referring to the mysterious Jedi master who is never there.
That way, when watching the movies straight through everyone assumes that Yoda is this mysterious Jedi Master up until the point where Luke realises that the little green guy is actually Yoda ;) The audience assumption being if this little guy trained by Yoda could almost kill the Emporer, why the hell didn't the real Yoda fight?
It'd be difficult to write, but it'd be possible to keep mysteries like that still in the movies.
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I would've liked it.
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If/when I have kids...we'll watch 4, 5, and 6 first and then 1, 2, and 3. I think thats how they were meant to be viewed.
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Originally posted by TopAce
Lucas does not know what he is doing. :)
I took the liberty to correct that sentence for you.:p
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Also, writing it wouldn't be too difficult. Take the end sequence with Chewbacca:
"Into exile I must go. Return, Yoda will, when the time is right."
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I always thought doin' 4/5/6 first just made Lucas come across as a smart arse. There's no real reason to do it.
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Actually, having lines in the Jedi Council such as:
"In the face of this new Sith threat, what will Master Yoda do?"
"Return, Yoda will, when the time is right."
That way there's a bit of repetition and theme.
Of course I also would have had Anakin be 30ish in the prequels, make Dooku & co. actually lightside in intent but destroying the Republic in their attempt to destroy the Sith, and have a Kreia-esque character be the one who has revived the Sith tradition and Palpatine betrayed her to become Emporer. Thus adding in an anti-Yoda teaching character who leads Anakin to the darkside in a subtler manner, especially if he forsakes the force for love and has to relearn it to fight Dooku.
The trick is, you need to make the darkside appealing to even the audience. So the whole "freedom comes through power, power from passions" teachings being pounded in the prequels then comes to fruition when Palpatine finishes twisting Anakin. By also having internal Jedi politics and ineptness/inaction the audience also roots for Anakin and the Emporer (on a deeper level then "evil is cool") up until the last second where they realise that they too have been led down the dark path ;)
...plus Dooku being a contrast to the Jedi sitting and doing nothing would work well. Then there's the question- which is more evil, trying to stop evil but causing it yourself in the process? Or doing nothing?
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Originally posted by Roanoke
I always thought doin' 4/5/6 first just made Lucas come across as a smart arse. There's no real reason to do it.
Episode IV was ideal to start his career with. Episode I would not have been so exciting.
Originally posted by Lynx
I took the liberty to correct that sentence for you.:p
Thank you. It's appreciated. :ha:
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Why the hell was Chewbacca even in the 3rd movie (or is that 6th) nayways? It's completely pointless......
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I was just thinking about all of this earlier...
First of all, you should watch Episodes 4, 5, and 6 before you watch 1, 2, and 3. Why? Because the first episodes (4, 5, and 6) take advantage of suprise. For instance, it was so shocking when Vader went "No Luke, I am your father." But if you watch episodes 1 through 3 first, you'll go, oh, duuuhhhh!
It just completely ruins the suprise of that part of the film.
About the questions: it's a 7 year old. Give him a break :p Also, he was talking about Episode IV, none of the other ones (which he hasn't seen yet). In Episode IV the red and gold leaders are morons, although even a sluggish Y wing could defend against a TIE fighter by doing a "barrel roll". In all seriousness, that maneuver saved thousands of lives in WWII, when it was the standard evasive maneuver for bomber pilots when an enemy was on the tail. If you're thinking of simply rolling the plane over in a 360 degree spin, you're wrong; a barrel roll is actually more corkscrew shaped, as the pilot pulls back as well as in the direction he wants to turn.
Lastly, I was thinking about the whole Star Wars one through six correlation, and it just hit me as to why I can't seem to make the connection between the prequels and the old series, why Obi Wan doesn't quite seem like the same Obi Wan, etc.
It's because the prequels aren't really Star Wars at all - the original Star Wars was good vs. evil, space fighters, explosions, but also character. The entire movie had character, right from the actors to the space fights. First off, the characters in the original were actually lifelike, and the ones in the prequel were not. This is why I can't make the connection between the 1D prequel Obi Wan and the 3D original Obi Wan.
Next up is the next major point: the scenes. Star Wars original was laced with interesting little touches, souch as aliens talking in the background, people going about their activities. My favorite example of this is the bar scene - everything is cramped and small, so that it feels like a real bar. It's dark and muddy, just like life. In the bar scene in Episode II (where the assassin is chased down by Anakin and Obi Wan), everything's brightly colored, digital, and completely devoid of life. There's no standard by which you can judge the digital characters: since everything is digital, you can't say "well, this is real, so this must be real too". Instead it's...what IS real? All I see is digital. Many of you have probably heard of the theory that where if a person sees an unrealistic looking thing, they are willing to accept it as real. But if something looks TOO real, almost exactly like the real thing, then they begin to pick for flaws, and the suspension of disbelief is completely destroyed.
George Lucas apparantly thought that the battles in Episodes IV, V, and VI were all about the explosions and the awesome gunfighting. What he didn't realize was that we were actually able to relate to them, because they seemed real for the above mentioned reasons, and the pilots flying them seemed real. Now, everything is glossy and digital, and the pilots seem to exist for the sole purpose of being killed.
Anyway, rant over, sorry :)
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Partly, it was those pointless things that ruined the prequel movies: Chewbacca in Ep3 wasn't necessary, R2d2 and C3PO3 weren't necessary at all(C3 being constructed by the future Vader, come on!), Anakin being from Tatooine, Boba Fetts father appearing in Ep II, etc.
One or two things could be coincidence, but it looked like half of the people in the prequels were supposed to be fahter/mother or aquaintances of the people in the old trilogy. This felt so overly fake, like the whole story and settings had been just made that way to include those obvious Star Wars references, as if Lucas was afraid people wouldn't recognize it's star wars otherwise.
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Two new question which came up to me while rethinking the link between EPIII and IV.
I think I already gave sound to this, but originally, Episode III was supposed to be played 20 years before the Battle of Yavin. Well, Luke and Leia were 18 when EpIV took place. Did George modify on the original timeline?
Antilles was already a Captain when EpIII finished. Was he so unskilled that he remained a Captain unil he got killed by Vader in EpIV?
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I thought Captain Antilles was Wedge?
Originally posted by Lynx
... R2d2 and C3PO3 weren't necessary at all(C3 being constructed by the future Vader, come on!) ...
The droids purposes are to connect the trilogy.
C3PO and R2D2 : Star Wars :: Jay and Silent Bob : Kevin Smith's Jersey Trilogy
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Originally posted by Unknown Target
I was just thinking about all of this earlier...
First of all, you should watch Episodes 4, 5, and 6 before you watch 1, 2, and 3. Why? Because the first episodes (4, 5, and 6) take advantage of suprise. For instance, it was so shocking when Vader went "No Luke, I am your father." But if you watch episodes 1 through 3 first, you'll go, oh, duuuhhhh!
It just completely ruins the suprise of that part of the film.
About the questions: it's a 7 year old. Give him a break :p Also, he was talking about Episode IV, none of the other ones (which he hasn't seen yet). In Episode IV the red and gold leaders are morons, although even a sluggish Y wing could defend against a TIE fighter by doing a "barrel roll". In all seriousness, that maneuver saved thousands of lives in WWII, when it was the standard evasive maneuver for bomber pilots when an enemy was on the tail. If you're thinking of simply rolling the plane over in a 360 degree spin, you're wrong; a barrel roll is actually more corkscrew shaped, as the pilot pulls back as well as in the direction he wants to turn.
Um...you do realise there are no aerodynamics in space to make barrel rolls work in the same way?
you're right about the lack of 'grit', though; whilst it was expected that some massive war would take place to explain the visual differences between (at release) the first of the prequels and the latter trilogy, there's still that sort of anaesthetic appearance.
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[color=66ff00]Wedge isn't a captain in ANH, the 'captain Antillies' was the guy that Vader chokes when the Stormies take the Tantive IV (the blockade runner). As for why captain Antillies remains captain Antillies for so long, any amount of speculation could be done.
I always thought it was kinda ironic given the family ties protrayed in the original trilogy that Denis Lawson (Wedge) is Ewan MacGregor's (Obi wan) uncle. :)
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Originally posted by EtherShock
The droids purposes are to connect the trilogy.
C3PO and R2D2 : Star Wars :: Jay and Silent Bob : Kevin Smith's Jersey Trilogy
There were enough references to connect a dozen movies to the old trilogy. The droids didn't have any real purpose. In the OT, they were integral parts of the plot, but in the new movies they contributed nothing other than doing stupid noises and were subject to abuse for the rotten humor present in the new trilogy. C3PO's head being attached to a battle droids body in AotC was so bad, it felt like Lucas was taking a crap on the audience.
They were suppposed to be funny in the old movies too, but not in a stupid way like now. They also contributed to the advancement of the plot.
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]I always thought it was kinda ironic given the family ties protrayed in the original trilogy that Denis Lawson (Wedge) is Ewan MacGregor's (Obi wan) uncle. :)
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You mean there's family ties between the actors themselves?
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Originally posted by Sandwich
You mean there's family ties between the actors themselves?
[color=66ff00]Yeah. :)
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Kewl.
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Empire enslaved the wookies. Chewbacca only hang around with Han because he couldn't really return to his homeworld and because Han saved his life.
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Notice how the B-Wings have never really appeared in anythin' other than RotJ (cept for the odd dodgy "Interactive Movie") ?
That shot, in RofJ, when the Rebel arrives, realises it's a trap, and you see the flet parting left 'n' right, how supa dupa cool was that bit ? I love it.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Um...you do realise there are no aerodynamics in space to make barrel rolls work in the same way?
Doesn't mean you can't use maneuvering thrusters to the same effect. :p A combination of forward/up/left or right thrust would produce the same maneuver.
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I was actually joking about the barrel roll thing...Starfox64 quote...sorry. :p
And yeah, I think Lucas' big problem is that he was working retroactively, and didn't do anything really startling/creative with the storyline. A lot of the things in Episode 4-6 don't really make sense if you start with the PTs, but, whatever.
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Originally posted by Roanoke
Notice how the B-Wings have never really appeared in anythin' other than RotJ (cept for the odd dodgy "Interactive Movie") ?
That shot, in RofJ, when the Rebel arrives, realises it's a trap, and you see the flet parting left 'n' right, how supa dupa cool was that bit ? I love it.
:nod: That's a great shot.
The B-Wing (and A-Wing) were supposed to be new according to RotJ.
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how does a rag tag group of rebles always on the run manage to design, test, and manufacture new fighter craft?
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Originally posted by EtherShock
:nod: That's a great shot.
The B-Wing (and A-Wing) were supposed to be new according to RotJ.
The A-wing already existed in the time of the Battle of Hoth, they simply did not get part in the movie.
I mean, in the timeline, obviously the A-wing model was not made while filming the Empire Strike Back.
COLOURS
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you spelled colors wrong
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Originally posted by redsniper
you spelled colors wrong
[color=66ff00]Nah, remember that anyone that speaks english over in your neck of the woods does so because they took it with them when they moved there.
Ergo you are spelling it wrong. :p
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Must we go off-topic so much? :p
Colour = British spelling
Color = American spelling.
Let this settle it.
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We don't spell it wrong, we spell it better. :D
alright, I'll stop now...
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Originally posted by TopAce
The A-wing already existed in the time of the Battle of Hoth, they simply did not get part in the movie.
I mean, in the timeline, obviously the A-wing model was not made while filming the Empire Strike Back.
COLOURS
Well, I said according to the movie, but whatever.
*Likes the A-Wing*