Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: AlphaOne on June 17, 2005, 09:36:39 am
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This is part of chapter one of mi campaign story which i've been talking about.Remember all those questions about ship designs ??
First a time table to give you a head's up on the main events:
2369:GTVA is disolved due to its inefectiveness in crisis management.
2369:GTVEmpire is born. Emperor Alexander is "elected" bi the newly formed parlament.
2370:Emperor Alexander takes stand and anounces a new strategy for geting his people out of crisis.
2371:Emperor Alexander issues an order for the development of new ships to replace the aging Orion and Hecates.
2371:MEC (Milatary engeniers corps) anounces its new specs for new ships to the Emperor. The Hecate MKII,Orion MK II,Sobek MKII,Deimos MK II,Hathepsuit MK II are begining to take shape!
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That is it for now I have to go to work sorry about this I reali wanted to post the entire chapter....god damn work....I' Quit.....
:mad: :mad: :mad:
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Um.... why would this new empire need to develop 2 new destroyers; even assuming there is a need to directly replace the brand new Hecate class (in particular), why develop another new destroyer as well.
Secondly, why do you need these new ships? What point do they serve in the story? I get the impression you're introducing these for the sake of having a flashy model-list, rather than actually needing to do so for the storyline. A small number of new flyables (for the variety & fun) is ok, but IMO if you want to replace an entire fleet you need to have a very, very solid story necessity for doing so.
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Because the other things are aging.
However, enough with the refits. The Orion can be scrapped by now(look at Inferno to see new ideas for destroyer class; just don't steal them), Hecate sucked to begin with... make some new stuff. Seriously.
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Originally posted by Ghost
Because the other things are aging.
However, enough with the refits. The Orion can be scrapped by now(look at Inferno to see new ideas for destroyer class; just don't steal them), Hecate sucked to begin with... make some new stuff. Seriously.
Hecate is less than a decade old. Likewise Deimos. Sobek and Hatshepsut aren't exactly old either.
Look at all the Great War era ships floating around in FS2 (many being 30-50 years old); and those weren't even designed with regards to shield, flak or beam technology.
And where is the GTVA - flooded with several hundred million refugees from Capella, the fleet decimated, and inter-species relations damaged by the NTF rebellion - going to find the money & resources to build an entire new fleet? It took an unprecedented interspecies effort to build the Colossus, and even then it took 20 years. And that would be nothing compared to replacing the entire fleet.
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Wasn't the first hecate comisioned in 2367? That would make it way too young to phase out.
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I don't think it's stated what date the Hecate destroyerwas first made operational. It's made pretty clear the Hecate class is brand new, though; and there are very few seen (maybe 2 or 3, including the Aquitane IIRC).
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Yes, I did notice that the dates were messed up.
If you plan on making this campaign immediately after Capella, then you'll want to listen to Aldo. If not, then move your dates way forward.
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Well the GTVA is no longer. It is the empire's turn to take hand of the situation. And we all know how empires find various wais to get money!
The campaign isnt going to be made it is just a story which I thought I should post. The whole campaign story spans over 50 years....soooo yes the refits are more then welcomed.The Orion MK II isnt actualy a brand new ship because is has the older version to wich it is based. The same goes for the rest of the refits as I like to call them.
You will see the point of all these refits.
2375: The Emperor gets asasinated while holding a speach in Polaris.
2375:Emperor Ha'ti hets "elected" .
2376:Emperorrs Ha'ti plan of economical prosperaty begins to take efect.Largeli due to slave labour provided by prisoners and persons deemed unfit to be a citizen of the Empire.
2377:Emperor Ha'ti gives orders for a separate fleet to be constructed for the protection of the empire. This fleet would be the last line of defense against invaders and also would perform police and "peakeeping" missions in the empire.
2378:Rebelion starts and a brutal war ravages the empire.
2379:The epires Inteligence agenci makes contact with a new specie's named The Aerians.
2380:A grand plan begins to take shape due to recent subspace technological advances. Acces is denied to a colapsed jumpnode.
2382:After 4 years of bloody war the empire begins to crumble and is eventualy disbaned.
2382:The Grand Terran Vasudan Federation is born and hope for a better future begins to take shape.
2383:The first Terran Knossos becomes operational opening the doorway to a whole new sistem.Progress on the Sol gate takes much longer then anticipated due to new problems in the stabilazation filed. Date to completion unknown.
2384:The Nebula class destroyers begin to take shape.The first 2 ships leave the shipyards in Deneb.
2384:The Orion Mk I is retired from active service. This is the longest "tour of duty" of a ship in history.The Orion MK III are drawn up and production begins in the Regulus sistem. The Hecate MK I and Hathepsuit MK I begin to steadely be phased out. Production is increased on the MK's II.
2385:Test trials on the Nebula destroyers are complete and is introduced into active service.This is the most powerful Ship in the GTVF arsenal.
2386:Plans are issued for a new class of ship's..enter the carriers!(Not like the ones we know but a ship dedicated to carring fighters and bommbers to the battlefiled.)
2387:War starts between the GTVF and the Aerians.
2388:GTVF wins the war but the Aerians are granted special statute.
2389:A new lider rises to power in the Aerian Republic.Treaties are being made in order to alow the Aerian Republic to join the Federation.
2390:A new brakethrough is made in shielding technology.The Nano-Armour is created.(38% weight reduction to a 47% increase in protection). Refits aere begining to be made through out the GTVF warships.
2391:The Mirage class frigate takes shape but production is postponed in order to alow for other projects to finalize.
2392:The first 2 Carriers GFCa Amon-Ra GFCa Phoenix leave the shipyards in Luyten.
2393:The Aerians join the GTVF and the first mixed crews are organized later the year on the Amon-Ra
2394:Plans are issued for a new shipp class the frigate.
2394:A breakthrough is made in beam cannon technology wich raises its total damage to about 87% of its shivan conterpart.refits start through out the fleet's
2395:the GTVF celebrates is 15'th new star sistem discoverd and colonized.
2396:The Sol jumpgate is nearing completion problems stil arise in the gates stabilazation filed.
2397:The aging Sobecks and deimos are replaced by newer and more powerfull corvette's (Albea class escort corvette,the Viking heavy corvette, and the Centurion class heavy assault corvette)
2398:Rebelion starts as the NTVA (Neo Terran Vasudan Aliance chalanges the curent political and economical organization)
2399:The Heracles and the Asgaroth (milatary and science) stations are destroyed by a NTVA fleet.
How does it look so far...??? Remenber I havent posted everithing that took place like new fighter bommber designs beeing introduced just the major events.
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Firstly, you have far too many mods (big ships - at least 7 new destroyers, new race, installations, fighters). Unless you had every modeller in the community making them, you'll never get it done. You're introducing unbalancing technology ('nano-armout', 'beam cannon technology') as an excuse to add infeasible weaponry. presumably because you've not worked out any realistic strategy or story for actually defeating the Shivans.
NTVA is a derivative name. Empirical dictators are cliched, and highly unlikely to arise in a situation where the military forces have been decimated in previous wars (preventing any form of wide-spread security and oppression apparatus).
Despite a plethora of mods, you have no mention of new transports.
It's pretty infeasible to imagine a new race starting a war with the GTwhateverthehell, and then moving to mixed species ships in an alliance within 4 years - just look at the mixed fleets in FS2 after 30 years of alliance. Not to mention which race would join an alliance with 2 species which have went through 4 different froms of government, 2 civil wars and a dictatorship in under 30 years.
Despite this constant war and instability, you have detailed a continuous process of military building which seems to occur entirely independently of the social and economic consequences of war and instability; your best explanation is 'emperors get money from somewhere', which is frankly pathetic.
All of which doesn't matter, because you'll likely never get this finished. A story spanning 50 years, with 14 new GTVA big vessels alone (i.e. ignoring a new race, fighters, bombers, cruisers, transports, sentry guns). Pick a realistic target; something small, but with a well written and tight knit story.
I'm no stranger to futile, stupidly overambitious campaigns - but even I never suggested something on this scale.
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Why is everything Mark II? When you're going to build a new ship, you generally just make...a new ship. Not a MK II of something. You don't see the US making Enterprise class Mk I, MK II, MK III, etc.
Ok, first of all, copy your post into word and correct it there or something, but trying to decypher your posts is giving me a headache.
Also, this isn't a story, more like a series of dates. Write something, don't just give us a long list of dates about each new technological advance. I don't know about everyone else, but I want to read about actual storyline, not just a bunch of "MK II" and obscurely named ships being introduced.
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:nod:
Story first, then ships.
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Indeed. The story needs to come first: characters, basic plot, and manageable sections. What you have there is a timeline. Unless you're planning on making a single campaign that takes over the 30+ years that you have outlined, then it needs to be divided up. Honestly, it looks like you could easily divide it up in a number of ways, starting with the civil war during the days of the Empire.
A small minicamp (or full campaign, if you choose to do so) could cover the contact with the new race, and then you could do another chapter on the war with the new race. The war with the Shivans could cover another, and then the revolution that topples the Federation could fall into another.
If all that you posted is Chapter 1... then, I'm sorry, unless you're planning on doing the History of the Galaxy™, then I would suggest that you divide that up into several chapters on its own. My own campaign may eventually consist of 8-10 chapters, though I'm only covering nine to eleven months.
Oh, and just for you, UT:
Following a massive port into MSWord and with ten minutes of clicking "Change" in Spellcheck...
Well the GTVA is no longer. It is the empire's turn to take hand of the situation. And we all know how empires find various wais to get money!
The campaign isn’t going to be made it is just a story which I thought I should post. The whole campaign story spans over 50 years....so yes the refits are more then welcomed. The Orion MK II isn’t actually a brand new ship because is has the older version to which it is based. The same goes for the rest of the refits as I like to call them.
You will see the point of all these refits.
2375: The Emperor gets assassinated while holding a speech in Polaris.
2375: Emperor Ha'ti gets "elected”.
2376: Emperorrs Ha'ti plan of economical prosperity begins to take efect. Largely due to slave labor provided by prisoners and persons deemed unfit to be a citizen of the Empire.
2377: Emperor Ha'ti gives orders for a separate fleet to be constructed for the protection of the empire. This fleet would be the last line of defense against invaders and also would perform police and "peacekeeping" missions in the empire.
2378: Rebelion starts and a brutal war ravages the empire.
2379: The empires Intelligence agency makes contact with new specie's named The Aerians.
2380: A grand plan begins to take shape due to recent subspace technological advances. Access is denied to a collapsed jump node.
2382: After 4 years of bloody war the empire begins to crumble and is eventually disbanded.
2382: The Grand Terran Vasudan Federation is born and hopes for a better future begins to take shape.
2383: The first Terran Knossos becomes operational opening the doorway to a whole new system. Progress on the Sol gate takes much longer then anticipated due to new problems in the stabilization filed. Date to completion unknown.
2384: The Nebula class destroyers begin to take shape. The first 2 ships leave the shipyards in Deneb.
2384: The Orion Mk I is retired from active service. This is the longest "tour of duty" of a ship in history. The Orion MK III is drawn up and production begins in the Regulus system. The Hecate MK I and Hatshepsut MK I begin to steadily be phased out. Production is increased on the Mike’s II.
2385: Test trials on the Nebula destroyers are complete and the destroyers are introduced into active service. This is the most powerful Ship in the GTVF arsenal.
2386: Plans are issued for new classes of ships...enter the carriers! (Not like the ones we know but a ship dedicated to carrying fighters and bombers to the battlefield.)
2387: War starts between the GTVF and the Aerians.
2388: GTVF wins the war but the Aerians are granted special statute.
2389: A new leader rises to power in the Aerian Republic. Treaties are being made in order to allow the Aerian Republic to join the Federation.
2390: A new breakthrough is made in shielding technology. The Nano-Armour is created. (38% weight reduction to a 47% increase in protection). Refits are beginning to be made through out the GTVF warships.
2391: The Mirage class frigate takes shape but production is postponed in order to allow for other projects to finalize.
2392: The first 2 Carriers GFCa Amon-Ra GFCa Phoenix leaves the shipyards in Luyten.
2393: The Aerians join the GTVF and the first mixed crews are organized later the year on the Amon-Ra
2394: Plans are issued for a new ship class the frigate.
2394: A breakthrough is made in beam cannon technology which raises its total damage to about 87% of its Shivan counterpart. Refits start through out the fleet's
2395: the GTVF celebrates is 15’Th new star system discovered and colonized.
2396: The Sol jumpgate is nearing completion problems still arise in the gates stabilization filed.
2397: The aging Sobeks and Deimos are replaced by newer and more powerful corvette's (Albea class escort corvette, the Viking heavy corvette, and the Centurion class heavy assault corvette)
2398: Rebelion starts as the NTVA (Neo Terran Vasudan Alliance challenges the current political and economical organization)
2399: The Heracles and the Asgaroth (military and science) stations are destroyed by a NTVA fleet.
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Rather cliched, naff and waaaay overambitious. I'd suggest that first you create a credible minicampaign using no mods whatsoever. Tell a good story first, then worry about mods...
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This place is full of "tough love". :D
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What about the missions? Describe the missions first.
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Far too cliched for my tastes...
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Ok then i'm gooing to stop detailing the timeline for now.
The first mission is a interceptor mission. You are asigned to defend 2 staions from the NTVA.
In this mission the player would of had to engage superior numbers of fighters and bommbers, not necesaraly superior tech wise.
Aldo14 the way the continous milatary spending was posible as you will eventualy see is because they wanted it to go on! Everybody wanted for the mylatary to become more and more powerfull in the hope that they will control it and thus have a secured place as the head of the empire,aliance, whatever.
Also the continous spending in research and ship building provided for fewer uninploied
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Originally posted by AlphaOne
Aldo14 the way the continous milatary spending was posible as you will eventualy see is because they wanted it to go on! Everybody wanted for the mylatary to become more and more powerfull in the hope that they will control it and thus have a secured place as the head of the empire,aliance, whatever.
Also the continous spending in research and ship building provided for fewer uninploied
That's not a viable explanation - it's still a 'magic money' solution. Particularly for a 'state' with no external source of finance, trade, resources, etc; Hitler, for example, had a massive planned economy (which helped reduce unemployement, too) - but it was unsustainable and eventually relied upon invading other countries to keep going.
You're proposing a continuous flow of materials and resources; who pays for this? Does the government just print money? then you have hyperinflation - wages buy nothing, the economy collapses, and soforth. Same thing destroyed the Soviets, arguably.
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Well as I sai at one point during the timeline the resources for the masive ship building campaign came from new star sistems with gas giants and asteroid fields as well as a dozen suitable planets for colonization. this way there was a constant suply of materials and a constant need for skilled miners pilots, engeniers and so forth. Also lets not forget that during a colonization of a planet you would need a lot of man power to get things started.
not to mention the people needed for ship building and training for manning those ships.
The spending on the milatary was not that huge considwering that they had to postpone at least one project in order to increase production on another. Also remember that the Orion staid in service for over 60 years which is a huge amount of time for a ship class to remain in active service.
Also remember the whole Sol Knossos keep in mind that most of the crews that worked on it worked for free so to speak. Remember they had to reopen the jumpnode as soon as posible.
At least that is ehat I would of done if the perspective was to return home.
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Originally posted by AlphaOne
The first mission is a interceptor mission. You are asigned to defend 2 staions from the NTVA.
We don't want missions, either, we want a storyline. Missions and useless tech data do not a storyline make.
No one would work on something like the Sol gate for free. They'd contract it out to sub contractors. But you're forgetting something: sure, they have the resources, but when we're talking about money, they have to be able to pay the people that mine the resources, that refine them, that use them, and those that eventually build the ships. Where do they get that cash?
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Originally posted by AlphaOne
Well as I sai at one point during the timeline the resources for the masive ship building campaign came from new star sistems with gas giants and asteroid fields as well as a dozen suitable planets for colonization. this way there was a constant suply of materials and a constant need for skilled miners pilots, engeniers and so forth. Also lets not forget that during a colonization of a planet you would need a lot of man power to get things started.
not to mention the people needed for ship building and training for manning those ships.
The spending on the milatary was not that huge considwering that they had to postpone at least one project in order to increase production on another. Also remember that the Orion staid in service for over 60 years which is a huge amount of time for a ship class to remain in active service.
Also remember the whole Sol Knossos keep in mind that most of the crews that worked on it worked for free so to speak. Remember they had to reopen the jumpnode as soon as posible.
At least that is ehat I would of done if the perspective was to return home.
Ah, yes, the magic supply of new systems (and how many systems actually have planets or useable resources in real life?) which suddenly just appear in place. Somehow also having enough free miners, people, etc to strip-mine them; and apparently instantaneously producing and training people to do this.
And Sol knossos crews would not work for free. People need to eat, drink and sleep; that doesn't come for free. If the government provides it, then the government needs to finance that, as well.
And how are you going to make all this anways? How many models have you got, for example?
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Originally posted by Unknown Target
We don't want missions, either, we want a storyline. Missions and useless tech data do not a storyline make.
:nod: Give us some characters. Give us some conflict (and not just a vague description of a war; we want conflict between characters, or between groups, and for believable reasons).
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Well a problem with "spare" work force would come from Capella. Remember the whole refugee status???
Also because u are now a federation various star sistems are given a limited autonomi to organize and develop its economy.
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And who's going to fund building homes, hospitals, schools, food & water for said refugees? How is said fleet going to afford to expand and explore into these magical new resource rich systems with that scale of refugee problem anyways? And giving systems financial autonomy does not equate to a magic stream of money; if anything it can work against it, specifically by denying economies of scale, and imposing barriers to trade, transport, etc between systems.
anyways, how many ships are made? How many modellers do you have? How many weapons are done? And how many new backgrounds are drawn?
And if the answer is 'none', how many staff do you have?
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I believe he stated that he would not be making this as a campaign :)
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Agreed with who said the "Tough Love" statement, here.
If i was a leader of a 'people', much smaler or = in size to GTVA or the GTA, i would NOT have money as any form of system. Everyone would do their job, everyone would take what food they needed, everyone would be fine and not starving. Thus you can continously make ships without fear of under funding or economic instability and cancled projects. So you would get all the materials for ship building you needed. I see this as a pritty good system. This way we can keep expanding. Only thing that would pause it would be hits at supply convoys and deopts.
Any comments or speculation about this system?
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Originally posted by Charismatic
Agreed with who said the "Tough Love" statement, here.
If i was a leader of a 'people', much smaler or = in size to GTVA or the GTA, i would NOT have money as any form of system. Everyone would do their job, everyone would take what food they needed, everyone would be fine and not starving. Thus you can continously make ships without fear of under funding or economic instability and cancled projects. So you would get all the materials for ship building you needed. I see this as a pritty good system. This way we can keep expanding. Only thing that would pause it would be hits at supply convoys and deopts.
Any comments or speculation about this system?
Didn't really work for the USSR, did it?
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Why take care of the financials so much? Are you going to think into it while you are playing the campaign?
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If it makes the universe completely unbelievable then yes.
For instance what would you think of a campaign set 8 years after Capella which had a fleet of 50 Colossi in it?
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I would say that's too many... but that case is not quite comparable with this case.
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Originally posted by TopAce
I would say that's too many... but that case is not quite comparable with this case.
8 new destroyer types in a period of about 30-40 years which includes no less than 4 major wars (and no less than 3 complete reorganizations of the government and society)?
Put it this way.... imagine a movie where Cuba invades USa on it's own, wins, and occupies. How enjoyable could that premise be, given that it blatantly screams 'not real!' ?
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Originally posted by aldo_14
8 new destroyer types in a period of about 30-40 years which includes no less than 4 major wars (and no less than 3 complete reorganizations of the government and society)?
Put it this way.... imagine a movie where Cuba invades USa on it's own, wins, and occupies. How enjoyable could that premise be, given that it blatantly screams 'not real!' ?
The sooner is 'more possible' to happen than the latter.
Use the Star Forge! :D
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Well war seems to be a magic money giver.
Let me explain something to you. Everi time you have a war someone benefits from it finacialy. There are no exceptions.
And if those that benefit from is none other then your own weapons industry then....wooopey....there you go. You are auto financing your own economy by waging war. Of course this does not work for a geart deal of time but for a short 10 or 20 year time it works fine and could be considered as a economical boom.
Rember the money doesn't actualy leave your poket you just move them from one poket to the other and in the meen time you increase trhe amount.
Even the USA and the USSR did that for a while and are dooing it even now but with one diference: the USSR had no other means of financing its economy other then war while the USA did.
The same goes here. The GTVF has trade, mining, and other means of financing its wars besides the arms industry.
Remember that while we are used to seeing the money they sure as hell dont. You give leases or loans to people in need for lets say building a new house and other stuff. The money resulted from this are used to finance the same branch that produces the equipment and parts and other stuff that they need for their houses mines etc.
So in a way they are working and payng for theyr houses in the same time. Its a vicious circle that can not be so easely explained.
It is much more complicated then that.
Also here is the first character of mi campaign story:
Adm.Vladimir Alexander
Status: married
Age:42
Height: 1.89 m
Weight: 90 kg
Considered by many to be the most briliant milatary strategist Adm. Alexander is by far a simple character. He reached the rank of captain of a corvette at the age of 25.
He destinguished himself both as a fighter-pilot and as a strategist while comanding the GTCv Intrepid.
It was there that his genious showed for the first time.
While engaged in a hot pursuit of a rebel corvette and 2 cruisers he managed not only to win against them but he did that with the least amount of damage to his own ship. He managed to get them to shoot eachother by gooing at high speed between the 2 cruisers and when theyr beam cannons fired they only managed to clip his ship but the full brunt of the weapon fire was suffered by the cruisers. Then in a coordinated dtrike he managed to subdue the rebell corvette using just one boomber wing and hi own ship.
It was these kinds of event that ensured he would get promoted.
At the age of 30 he was given the command of his own destroyer.
It was an Orion destroyer. While he wanted to get the comand of a Hecate MK II or a newr class of destroyer that was just not posible at the time. But he was not descuraged.
He managed to use the Orion at his full potential and managed to score some amaizing victories agains all odds and aginst an enemy far better equiped then he was.
At the Age of 35 he achieved the rank of RearAdmiral.
He was subsequently given the comand of a better ship but he insisted that he keep his old crew.
At the age of 38 he became a full admiral and was named in comand of the GTVF V-th fleet.
He is also the pioneer of a new strategi employed by the GTVF one wich has become a "must" for every starship captain in the fleet. It was these kinds of achievements that have alowed his to rise this far in such short time.
While he is one of the youngest Admirals ever he is by far one of the greatest soldiers that ever lived.
While caucios and reserved when it came to engaging enemy forces especialy when intel was insuficent to give an acurate picture of the battlefield he could always be counted on for his great intuiton and ferocius atitude once engaged in a battle.
He has become one of the most feared and respected officers in the GTVF.
GTVF command had offered him a place in the higher echelons of the milatary but he refused arguing that he would be more usefull on the battlefield then behind some desk.
However this does not mean that the GTVF High Command does not ask his opinion whenever they are confrunted with a threat.
He has become "the GTVF fireman" because of his incredible abilaty to turn a hopless situation in his favor.
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Sounds good written, but how do you want to make it real?
It's easy to say your Admiral can defeat a fleet more advanced and larger than his, but how do you put it in a mission?
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Put it this way.... imagine a movie where Cuba invades USa on it's own, wins, and occupies. How enjoyable could that premise be, given that it blatantly screams 'not real!' ?
I was going to say RED DAWN! (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0087985/) But the ruskies help them there :D
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The story line, such as it is is indeed pretty weak. It's not totally unsalvagable, but considering the work it would take, I dunno. Here's my take on the discussion so far though.
Even with a social group as large as the GTVA it's not impossible or even really improbable that radical changes in government could take place in a relativly short period of time. Volition did it with the Vasudans and the Terrans not far prior to the present game timeline if you need a canon reference.
Here's something else I'm going to point out: A lot of people continue to say that the GTVA military was decimated (referring btw to having one in ten of a military force destroyed, not one in ten surviving), however in the game itself, reference during the campaign is made only to a few of the GTVA military's fleets engaging in combat: 6th Terran Fleet, 3rd Terran Fleet, and the 13th Vasudan Battlegroup. There is little mention of the other fleets, and none that I could find of any others engaging in the current conflicts.
The NTF gained much of its resources from the 6th Terran Fleet which was commanded by Bosch before the rebellion, though the unit still existed as a GTVA fleet during the campaign. It is unclear what other units, if any he may have co-opted. He did have access to at least one shipyard however, so it would be realistic to expext the rebels would have at least some new construction.
There were only a handful of systems involved in the NTF rebellion, and only one populated system invaded and destroyed by the Shivans. Though this left Capella's population temporarily homeless, it is rather silly to think the refugees would not be granted homes in the systems ravaged by the rebellion, as the extra manpower would be needed for rebuilding, and therefore most welcome.
As far as the large number of new ship classes, actually with the large number of conflicts in a relativly short time frame, it's not so unfeasable. You need only to take a good look at naval design evolution during WW1 and WW2, and the between war period. There were numerous new ship designs of all classes during each time period. They were spurred on by the conflict, rather than being retarded by it.
The generally ineffective management of all conflicts fron the Terran-Vasudan war to present by Volition's canon governments would be plenty of reason for rebellion/reform. Incompetence by those in power usually leads to their loss of that power.
EDIT: AlphaOne, I'm going to make a suggestion to you. It's not a flame, but some constructive criticism. You need to improve your writing skills. I'd suggest taking classes if you are truly passionate about telling a good story. Your story ideas are not exactly origional from what I've seen. They have a very childish quality to them. While this is not necessarily a really bad thing, it doesn't really work well when writing about war, even a science fictional war. A final suggestion as well, take the time to study your subject. read up on the history of major conflicts. Reality is stranger than fiction, and an excellent place to draw your inspiration from. This will help you mature as a writer.
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You need no classes, just listen to the critisms and take our advice.
~#~
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While it is clear that the story could use some punching up, I really like that some people are willing to let go of cannon and present their own ideas, good for you.
New ideas for the Ancients, Shivans, GTVA and any other new entities post Capella(ala inferno with the EA) are good for the life of the sim at present.
Keep working on the development of your story, by taking the "tough love" from the cannonites and using it to fill in the gaps. Revisions/rewrites are good, don't be afraid to shake it up a bit. Good luck. :yes:
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AlphaOne, you evidently don't understand how an economy works. Money doesn't just "appear" out of nowhere. If you spend vast amounts on the military, sure, the military-industrial corporations will get filthy rich (certain current events are a good example of that), but the money you pay them to build you weapons is gone. It's been spent. So you have less money to spend on everything else. You can't create money from nothing. Hell, just look at what happened to Britain in the first half of the 20th century - we went from superpower empire to second-rate country inside a few decades.
Anyway - I'd agree with what others have said. You need to write a story before you can make a campaign. You can't throw together a vague timeline and a few character bios and call it a plot.
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I'd point out that every time you have a war, many people are ****ed up the ass financially. Especially civil wars; profiteering is most easily achieved when the war is far enough away no to have an impact upon the profiteer.
Think of our most recent case, such as Iraq - billions poured in over there, for no return. Or a more obscure war, like the Ethopia - Eritrea war, which has certainly not helped either country but plunged them into even further famine and destitution.
And the USA/USSR is a strange comparison, when you consider the USSR wasn't (and isn't) exactly short of resources like oil (Caspian sea oil, for example), metal, ore, and soforth. Or even manpower - cheap labour from the Gulags - and yet still the remnants struggle to recover economically.
Or to take your specific example;
[q]Remember that while we are used to seeing the money they sure as hell dont. You give leases or loans to people in need for lets say building a new house and other stuff. The money resulted from this are used to finance the same branch that produces the equipment and parts and other stuff that they need for their houses mines etc.
So in a way they are working and payng for theyr houses in the same time. Its a vicious circle that can not be so easely explained.[/q]
Now this is nonsensical (insofar as I can understand it from what you've said).
A gives B a loan.
B works to pay off loan.
The interest/profit off of Bs repayments is used (by A) to pay for not only Bs initial loan, but also buy equipment, resources and every consumeable required.
But who pays B the money for these extortionate repayments (because they'd have to be to buy all that)? A can't - they have to buy all this equipment in order to either provide or sell it to B.
The 'moving money from one pocket to the other' is also a daft idea; that's a method of faking how much money you have to an outside party, not managing an economy. And ultimately, it comes back and bites you in the ass when you have to pay for it.
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I'd worry less about the finances of the campaign and more about making it un-cliche, because this campaign doesn't have a lot of original items in it, to be quite honest.
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Bah, USSR was different. They were commies. My idea is not commies. Everybody and everything is not =.
Bah, i need to study up on the USSR some more again..
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Originally posted by Charismatic
Bah, USSR was different. They were commies. My idea is not commies. Everybody and everything is not =.
Bah, i need to study up on the USSR some more again..
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Oh cold war, how I do love thee.
Do you even know what communism is? Or are "commies" just evil, generic bad guys who are obviously inferior to you, and incapable of coming up with anything as perfect and world altering as you?
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Originally posted by Black Wolf
Do you even know what communism is? Or are "commies" just evil, generic bad guys who are obviously inferior to you, and incapable of coming up with anything as perfect and world altering as you?
I would guess that depends on whether he was brought up in the US school system or not.
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Or myabe he's making a joke/being sarcastic?
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Originally posted by Unknown Target
Or myabe he's making a joke/being sarcastic?
Honestly, I don't think so.
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Well the idea is this. While i do aknoledge the limired abilities that i have for writing they are not nearly as bad as you think bout mi spelling and knoledge of english is.
as for the campaign I must admit that although there are many already used ideas so far there are many ups and downs and twists to ensure that this will not be just another "hey the GTVF wins over the shivans" campaign story.
I will try to rewrite some of the ambigous details of the story but keep in mind this is only a story which hapens to represent a diferent point of view at least partialy from what is cannon.
You guis can take and rewrite and use whatever you think is good or usefull from this. While most of the story will prove to be dull the last part of it depicts horiffic battles with masive losses on both sides. And the eventual defeat of most of those that will be engaged in the titanic battle. Which will leave an open plot for people to write . In short "there are no winners in war of this scale and with stakes this high, there are only loosers because none will be able to defend against the tides of darkness that have fallen upon our galaxie...." Adm. Vladimir Petrov GTVF year 2420.
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*me senses a disturbance in the force, which is ironic because me also senses a BoES situation*
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Originally posted by AlphaOne
Well the idea is this. While i do aknoledge the limired abilities that i have for writing they are not nearly as bad as you think bout mi spelling and knoledge of english is.
as for the campaign I must admit that although there are many already used ideas so far there are many ups and downs and twists to ensure that this will not be just another "hey the GTVF wins over the shivans" campaign story.
I will try to rewrite some of the ambigous details of the story but keep in mind this is only a story which hapens to represent a diferent point of view at least partialy from what is cannon.
You guis can take and rewrite and use whatever you think is good or usefull from this. While most of the story will prove to be dull the last part of it depicts horiffic battles with masive losses on both sides. And the eventual defeat of most of those that will be engaged in the titanic battle. Which will leave an open plot for people to write . In short "there are no winners in war of this scale and with stakes this high, there are only loosers because none will be able to defend against the tides of darkness that have fallen upon our galaxie...." Adm. Vladimir Petrov GTVF year 2420.
I'm cheering for ya Alpha One!:yes:
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Well here you go of another piece of the story which i've been tring to rewrite to make it shorter and more concise!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Ahes to ahes and dust to dust...."
As the GTVF 5-th fleet entered the sistem they were received with a grand fireworks show..as well as a big celebration!
As trans ports started to depart the destroyers and corvettes with the refugies 4 wings of fighters took escort positions around them.
Beta1:"This is beta1 command we have started our escort of the transports"
Command:"Roger that! You shouldnt have eny problems..this is a secure sistem"
Beta2:"bah this is just for show....we are 5 kilcks away form the stations and they want us to escort them..."
Beta1:"...show or no show we have a job to do so zip it.."
As most of the 5-th fleet left the sistem GFD Independence and the GFFr. Intrepid staid behind for resuply and some r&r. Theyr crews have been fighting non-stop for the last 2 months against the NTVA.
Later that day.
As Adm. Petrov exited the airlock 4 marines were waiting for him to escort him to his room.Also just outside the airlock there was a women and a child waiting for him.
As soon as the child saw the admiral exiting the airlock he sprinted towards him.
Adm.P:"...woo...easy there champ..."
The admiral picked up his son and headed for his wife.
"He missed you so much.." said the his wife.
"You were suposed to arive 2 weeks ago what happened?"
Adm.P:"well that was the plan but this war....it's .....it's without reason....you should know better.."
As they headed for theyr room escorted by the 4 marines the young boy asks his father:
Peter:" Dad...well...I wanted to ask you something....but..."
Mom:"Well go on just as we talked...."
Petrov:"What have you 2 been skeeming...about while I was gone..??"
Mom:"Well he has been a good boy...and he has gotten high marks on his last test's..."
Peter:"Well I wanted to ask you if you could take me to see the bridge of your ship. I saw it and its huge and so beutiful I wanted to see where you work.."
Petrov:"Work...now heres a new interpretetion of what I do...! Besides you know children arent alowed on warships. That's not a good place for a child to be especialy the bridge!"
Peter:"Please dad I did exactly what you told me and i've been a good boy mom' can vouch for me"
Seeing he wasnt about to win this one he made use of his diplomatic skills:
Petrov:"Well why dont we wait till tomorow and we shal talk again tomorow"
This seemed to please the boy as he started running towards a couple of boys that were waiting across the coridor.
Later that day.
All alarms start to go off around the station.
"All hands to battle staions!All hands to battle stations! This is not a drill repeat this is not a drill"
1 minute later outside the Admirals apartment.
Petrov:"Yes...I understand...i'l be out in one minute"
"Peter what is wrong said his wife whats all this about.."
Petrov:"Listen to me I want you to pack up a suitcase and prepare to leave this place we are under atack. I have to go..."
Peter:"Dad you are leaving again..you said you will take me to see the ship.....you promissed...!"
Petrov:"I know but something has come up..and I have to go for now..I promise I'l come back..and then we will visit the ship okay..? I'n the mean time I want you to take care of your mother..understand?"
Peter:"Yes sir " said the young boy and speeded of to his room to take somthing...!
After he said goodbye to his wife the admiral speeded towards the airlock where a armoured transport was waiting fo him to take him to his ship.
On board his ship the admiral recieves an update on the situation.
An entire NTVA fleet was haded theyr way E.T.A. 15 minutes.
Command:"Admiral we have bad news the NTVA 2-nd fleet is headed your way. but they will not arive all at once they will arive in 3 waves because we mannaged to delay them."
Petrov:"What about reinforcement...my entire fleet has left the sistem some 16 hours ago to engage the NTVA in the N-002 and Pilgrim sistems."
Command:"We know we sent orders for them to head back but....! The only ship close enough to you is a Nebula class destroyer and its escort comanded by Cap.Ramses! E.T.A. 1 hour."
Petrov:"Roger that..." and the admiral turned white and sat down in his command chair...!
Command:"Peter...I sugest you get your famaly out of that science station....this is gooing to be bad..! You must protect the milatary instalation in that sistem at all cost."
Petrov:"Roger that"
This is a piece of it I will post the rest as well as a folow up tomorow..because for now i'm just to tired.
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No offense, but how are you going to put all that dramatic storytelling in the game? The only way you can have that large exchange of conversation between the admiral and his son is through a few cutscenes and I doubt you know how to make cutscenes... It seems more like you're trying to make a major motion picture than a campaign we can play.
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Oh, Crap.
AlphaOne, you need to stop. I'm all for creating fan fiction and new campaigns/missions, but you just don't have the right idea.
In fact, you have nothing but a terrible cliche of a campaign.
Learn how to type and spell too.
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The more he writes the better his writing skills will become. Respect this, let him practise. As for spelling, he must read more.
If I hadn't read any novels in English, I would still spell 'cute' as 'quede'. ;7
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Originally posted by d3r3k
Oh, Crap.
AlphaOne, you need to stop. I'm all for creating fan fiction and new campaigns/missions, but you just don't have the right idea.
In fact, you have nothing but a terrible cliche of a campaign.
Learn how to type and spell too.
You, sir, win the least helpful post award. :doubt:
Guys, seriously--if AlphaOne's writing and story irritates you so badly, either ignore it or do something completely out of the ordinary--try to help him!
No offense, but how are you going to put all that dramatic storytelling in the game? The only way you can have that large exchange of conversation between the admiral and his son is through a few cutscenes and I doubt you know how to make cutscenes... It seems more like you're trying to make a major motion picture than a campaign we can play.
As he stated earlier in the thread, this will not actually be made into an actual campaign. Rather, he is simply exposing the plot for us for enjoyment. If it were going to be developed, he could include the story with the Admiral's son as part of a monologue or log entry in a Command Brief.
As for the post, AlphaOne: while you do need some grammar/spelling work (it's understandable, don't take it offensively), I like the premise. While there are some cliches and overused ideas, that doesn't necessarily mean it sucks; just use those cliches in a new and unexpected way.
Good luck. I'll be waiting for the rest. ;)
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Thanx Nuclear1...! :eek2: I must admit thgat although Nuclear1 has criticised me for other post in the past I have yet to see him lash out at someone for posting his ideea or whatever unless it's about FS-X !
As for the rest who think that I should stop dooing this and take writing lessons and spelling lessons....well let me just say..that you mai be right but since you are so eager to stop me that is a good enough reason for me to continue regardless of the disadvantages that I or mi campaign story mai have!
As for the last part of it (Nuclear1) I must disapoint you since I will be able to post it at best tomorow morning!
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I never said I didn't think alphaone should make a campaign, and I understand he can put that bit between the admiral and his family in the monologue portions of the campaign, but it just seems strange making the monologues entirely composed of that. People want to see him set up the story first not jump straight into the admiral's perspective. We want to know what events led up to the current situation of the game and how "you"(the player) ended up there. Then perhaps we can have some of those side story segments and I welcome the idea.
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Originally posted by AlphaOne
Adm.Vladimir Alexander
Status: married
Age:42
Height: 1.89 m
Weight: 90 kg
[Mary-Sue? I don't know.]
Whatever happened to merely competent officers, pilots and politicians? Does everybody have to be played by Samuel L. Jackson?
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Originally posted by d3r3k
Oh, Crap.
AlphaOne, you need to stop. I'm all for creating fan fiction and new campaigns/missions, but you just don't have the right idea.
In fact, you have nothing but a terrible cliche of a campaign.
Learn how to type and spell too.
And you, sir, should learn some tact.
Have nothing helpful to say? Say nothing.
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Originally posted by Blaise Russel
Whatever happened to merely competent officers, pilots and politicians? Does everybody have to be played by Samuel L. Jackson?
Why do I think you are thinking of Mace Wiindu's character here? :rolleyes:
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Well, trying to find loginc in an unrealistic space shooter is ...funny.
Sure, FS2 didn't have Newtonian physics, but most things could have been explained and achived with normal physics.
But the charachters and storyline? Wre they belivable?
Really hard to tell - Bosch is a great charachter, but from a belivable standpoint, would anyone belive idiots like those in command would ever be in charge in the real world?..
No..wait a sec... nevermind that last question..
As for the economy bit - who cares.
In ST there is no ecomony so to speak, yet I see no one complaining.
where does the money for ships come? Well, military allways spends a lot - just look at the US
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Originally posted by aldo_14
8 new destroyer types in a period of about 30-40 years which includes no less than 4 major wars (and no less than 3 complete reorganizations of the government and society)?
Put it this way.... imagine a movie where Cuba invades USa on it's own, wins, and occupies. How enjoyable could that premise be, given that it blatantly screams 'not real!' ?
30-40 years is a LOT of time mind you...
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Why do I think you are thinking of Mace Wiindu's character here?
Actually, mate, I was thinking of Samuel L. Jackson.
I certainly wasn't thinking of Mace Windu, given that I haven't seen the new Star Wars movies nor intend to. If anything, I was thinking of Jules from Pulp Fiction... but really, I was just thinking of Jackson's reputation as a badass mofo.
So no.
:rolleyes:
What did I do?
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Originally posted by Blaise Russel
Actually, mate, I was thinking of Samuel L. Jackson.
....given that I haven't seen the new Star Wars movies nor intend to.....
It's a sin. :) Go watch them.
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Originally posted by TrashMan
30-40 years is a LOT of time mind you...
For the equivalent of 4 world wars? (we're talking all-encompassing of society wars here, not the relatively minor conflicts of, say, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Ethiopia, Yugoslavia, etc)
And then followed by the re-organization of society multiple times?
That can't be good for your infrastructure or accounting, let along the simple problems of rebuilding and repairing war damaged 'stuff'.
(In fact, why do we need 3 for this story? why not just one?)
It's not logic in gameplay environment, it's logic in storyline. I hate plots which rely upon assumptions or fluke coincidence - or which simply don't make sense.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
....
It's not logic in gameplay environment, it's logic in storyline. I hate plots which rely upon assumptions or fluke coincidence - or which simply don't make sense.
Then you probably hate the FS2 storyline.
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Originally posted by Blaise Russel
Whatever happened to merely competent officers, pilots and politicians? Does everybody have to be played by Samuel L. Jackson?
Competence? In the GTVA? :confused:
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Adm.Vladimir Alexander
Status: married
Age:42
Height: 1.89 m
Weight: 90 kg
[Mary-Sue? I don't know.]
If he's 1.89 meters tall and only 90 kg...he's a midget, isn't he? And a lightweight one at that?
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1.89 meters is like, 6 foot 2
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Originally posted by Unknown Target
If he's 1.89 meters tall and only 90 kg...he's a midget, isn't he? And a lightweight one at that?
:wtf:
What's the problem with that? 90 kilogramms is normal for a 1.89 metre tall man.
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I'm 1.88m and I weigh 85-90kg...
and I'm not skinny ether - boardshouldered, well built, in fact.. (alltough I do have to work a bit more on my chest and back)
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I think Unknown Target is being sarcastic. At least I hope so. :nervous:
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Originally posted by TopAce
Then you probably hate the FS2 storyline.
Why? I find it perfectly plausible within the context of the universe and background information provided.
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The "sequel" !
Note: There was a tiping error in the previous post the stations werent 5 km from the jump node but 50 km from the jump node!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As Petrov issued orders to his fighter/bommber pilots he also positioned the GFD Independence closer to the jump node in order to fire at incoming ships from as far back as posible this wai reducing the damage his own ship would take. He also ordered the frigate the Intrepid to take similar position paralel to his own ship.
Adm.P:"I want 8 wings of interceptors to provide bommber protection for us and the Intrepid. I want the rest of them to take defensive positions around the 2 stations."
First officer:" Sir arent 8 wings of interceptors a little few for 2 capships....I mean..."
Petrov then abrupty interupts him.
Petrov:" I know but we cant keep to many interceptors on bommber protection we are outnumbered as it is so i need as many interceptors as I can spare to attack the enemy bommbers before they can reach the stations. I have a little surprise for them...."
Petrov asigned the 8 wings of stealth fighters he had on board. These were state of the art ships only a handfull of them reached the fleets most of them went to SOC,GFI, the Madjai fleets and the Preatorian Guard.
He had to pull a lot of favors to recieve these fighters. He knew they would come in usefull some day soon he just nevere thought he would usem them this fast.
The Saphire Stealt fighter/interceptor
These ships are the result of more then 8 decades of intense research into shivan technology and stealth technology. They benefit from a new experimental reflective armour as well as brand new weapon sistems and sensor sistems as well as advanced subspace engines and shiled technology.The fact that theyr engines are based partialy on shivan technology means that they can achieve a very high topspeed and have a lot of power for the weapons and shileds sistems.
Speed:90m/s max.speed 90m/s+45 m/s using the burners.
Armour:experimental reflective armour (cand deflect almost 57% of total energy based weapons fire).
Shilelds:Advanced independent trifazic shields
Weapons sitems:-4 primary banks
-3 missile banks
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Originally posted by TopAce
:wtf:
What's the problem with that? 90 kilogramms is normal for a 1.89 metre tall man.
Then why do I have the notion that 1 meter = about 3 feet? :wtf:
Oh well, then I guess my bad. Shows you why NASA plowed that one probe into the dirt :D
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@AlphaOne: The correct spelling is 'system'. This is not the first time you misspell it. There are other mistakes, but this is the most serious and one, I think.
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Originally posted by Unknown Target
Then why do I have the notion that 1 meter = about 3 feet? :wtf:
Oh well, then I guess my bad. Shows you why NASA plowed that one probe into the dirt :D
It is, kinda. 6 feet = 1.8288 meters
2 meters is quite tall.
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UT: here's your answer :p http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=lang_en&safe=off&q=1+meter+in+feet&btnG=Search
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The story continues!
After he managed to issue the orders to his pilots and crew the enemy began to show up.
Sensors Officer:"Incoming jump signature, hostile configuration, its and Orion MK III sir with its cruiser, fighter/bommber and corvette escort. "
Petrov wanted the first enemy wave out of his "skies" as soon as posible. So he ordered all nearby fighters to engage the enemy bommbers. He gave orders to his bommbers to take out the 2 cruisers and the corvette and ordered the Intrepid to open fire all guns on the Orion.
He had a trick up his sleave and didn't want the enemy to know about it. This was the main gun of the Independence the RBFB. This weapon was capable of delivering a cripling blow to eny ship smaller than a destroyer or severely damage a destroyer and so on and so on depending on the size and armour of the ship.
He wanted to use this weapon as a means of last resort. This beamcannon used so much power that it left the ship almost powerless for about 50 seconds. This was a timeperiod on wich he had to rely on his other ship the Intrepin to take care and keep ocupied any enemy ship that may arive.
A perfect situation would be if he could manage to disable the enemy beamcannons then use his superweapon this way he minimized the riscs to his ship to an acceptable level. But this was to prove enything but a perfect situation..!
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What, he's not using the SFHBGBOD on the GTVSD Generic Nameplate Mk.IIV?! :o
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"And so on and so on."
I like that. I should start doing that. Who needs details, or even plot development? I mean, hell, you get the idea already.
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First Officer of the GFD Independence:"Sir the enemy warships are gooing down and our fighters are mopping up the rest of the enmy fighters/bommbers."
Petrov:"Roger that..we need to hold on for just a little longer.
What is the ETA on our backup??"
Commander Asimov (First officer of the Independence):"ETA 47 minutes sir but I dont know if we will be able to hold on that much?"
As they preapared for the second wave they were in for a shock .
They were about to get a little more then they could chew.
With the 2 part defensive sistem organized by petrov they could of defended the sistem for a limited amount of time and with no other reinforcements to use Petrov was playing all on one card.
He counted on the fact that the NTVA would come in 3 or 4 waves . This was to prove one of his worst mistakes of his career largely due to the fact that the GTVF high command gave him "almost acurate" information about the enemy (as usual).
Petrov:"What is the status of our forces??"
Asimov:"Sir we lost 43 fighters and the Intrepid has suffered minor damage to its hull, also we have sustained 17% damage to our hull.
Sir...this was just the vanguard of an entire NTVA force hell it could be theyr biggest attack on us to date. We are at the node of 3 major sistems of the GTVF if they get past us they have the potential to do a lot of damage before we would be able to stop them. Hell al they have to do is destroy those 2 staions and they woudl deliver a serios blow to civilian and milatary personell morale....."
Petrov:"I know...I know....that is why they must not win here today...hell not ever...! Signal the stations commanders to prepare for evac of those stations..."
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Originally posted by AlphaOne
The Saphire Stealt fighter/interceptor
These ships are the result of more then 8 decades of intense research into shivan technology and stealth technology. They benefit from a new experimental reflective armour as well as brand new weapon sistems and sensor sistems as well as advanced subspace engines and shiled technology.The fact that theyr engines are based partialy on shivan technology means that they can achieve a very high topspeed and have a lot of power for the weapons and shileds sistems.
Speed:90m/s max.speed 90m/s+45 m/s using the burners.
Armour:experimental reflective armour (cand deflect almost 57% of total energy based weapons fire).
Shilelds:Advanced independent trifazic shields
Weapons sitems:-4 primary banks
-3 missile banks
Hurray for the uberfighter!:rolleyes:
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God bless those Shivans, eh? Every time you need a deus ex machina or convenient plot device, there they are ready to be researched.