Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Fineus on July 18, 2001, 04:17:00 am
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Really sorry to keep asking this but after getting different answers from all the real life people I know who might know about this, so I'm just going to try and get the last bit of knowlege from you guys again.
I've narrowed it down to about 3 Motherboards, but if theres any others that I should look at please say so (and tell me why their better).
The following are in order of what I think is best.
Abit KT7A RAID
Via KT 133 chipset
3 Dimm
4x AGP
6 PCI
1 ISA
100DMA
2+ USB
Asus ATV-133
Via KT133 chipset
3 Dimm
4x AGP
6 PCI
100 DMA
2+ USB
Gigabyte GA7DX
AMD 761 chipset
2 Simm
4x AGP
5 PCI
100 DMA
2+ USB
Any and all help is greatly appreciated as I really need to get this all sorted out as soon as possible. Cheers all.
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Co-Creator: Hard Light Productions (//"http://www.3dap.com/hlp/")
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GET ONLINE (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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Done, now back to topic (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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I'd say get an Abit or Asus, the rest really aren't worth your money.
I'd go for the Abit, since they've proven to be pretty overclock-friendly, and has that one ISA port (you never know when it might come in handy).
Any price differences?
EDIT. Checked the prices, they're essentially equal. So imho, go for the Abit
Oh, and this is me assuming you mean the Asus A7V-133, not ATV-133 (since that doesn't exist).
[This message has been edited by Jabu (edited 07-18-2001).]
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i'd go for the abit board myself....if you're commited to going for an SDR platform.
DDR memory is about the same price now, the only stumbling block is the motherboards..which are still about twice the price (for a decent one)
take a look at the Asus a7m266 , or an epox board. Both of these are listen on www.overclock.co.uk ("http://www.overclock.co.uk") i think.
asus also do an ali magik 1 based board that supports SDR and DDR. Whatever people might say about the different DDR chipsets...the performance delta is actually pretty small between them.
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Fair enough, thanks for the good info guys - things do seem to be leading me towards the Abit boards right now, however I think a little bit more research is needed before commiting.
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- ICQ: 57179504
Co-Creator: Hard Light Productions ("http://www.3dap.com/hlp/")
Webmaster: Sounds of Thunder ("http://www.3dap.com/hlp/sot/")
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Originally posted by Setekh:
GET ONLINE (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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Can't, to busy... email me if it's important (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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(http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/rolleyes.gif)
You're the one missing out - check the staff forum (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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Theres not much to it so far - I hardly call it missing out (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif) But I'm sure it'll prove impressive once you actually add anything to it. In the mean time I am busy with things and therefore can't afford to chat on ICQ.
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- ICQ: 57179504
Co-Creator: Hard Light Productions ("http://www.3dap.com/hlp/")
Webmaster: Sounds of Thunder ("http://www.3dap.com/hlp/sot/")
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But you can have ICQ conversations in general discussion forums... (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
Who do I remember who was looked down upon for doing that... (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/rolleyes.gif)
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Oh be quiet (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
Anyone else happen to be a motherboard expert? it's not to late to help the weak and stupid you know...
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- ICQ: 57179504
Co-Creator: Hard Light Productions ("http://www.3dap.com/hlp/")
Webmaster: Sounds of Thunder ("http://www.3dap.com/hlp/sot/")
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try me or the ars technica forum :P
(sorry to sound like a self-satisfied little..you get the picture)
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all those chipsets suck large donkey testis
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wEvil, Kazan... if both of you know so much about these then tell me which ones are better. Anybody can say they know about motherboards, or that the ones I've selected suck - but I want to see an alternative before I consider what your saying.
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- ICQ: 57179504
Co-Creator: Hard Light Productions ("http://www.3dap.com/hlp/")
Webmaster: Sounds of Thunder ("http://www.3dap.com/hlp/sot/")
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Well, here's the perspective of a Senior R&D Engineer in real life and computer buff since way back (don't ask how far) (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif) (and that's as close as I'm coming to your G'day thread Setekh (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/tongue.gif) )
I rate the ASUS K7V above the ABIT board for 1 main reason, stability (the ASUS A7V is extremely stable). As a minor point, it's layout allows slightly more room for large heatsink/fans (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif) It also outperforms the ABIT board in almost all testing and reviews (performance).
If you really want the ISA slot which the ASUS MB lacks, then instead of the ABIT board, I would suggest the IWILL KK166-R. It is equally as stable as the ASUS board, it's performance is almost on par with the ASUS board, and it has an ISA slot. The '-R' version has an onboard RAID IDE controller that does RAID 0, 0+1, and 1 (the ASUS board only does RAID 0 without modification). If you don't care about the RAID controller, then the plain IWILL KK166 would be the choice here.
If you want to go with a DDR board instead of a SDR based board, I would recommend the ASUS A7M266. DDR memory is approximately the same price as SDR right now... but the MB will carry a significant price premium.
Speaking of memory...do _NOT_ get cheap, no name memory EVER. I would suggest either Corsair brand DIMMs that use the Infineon memory chips or Mushkin High Performance memory. I've used Mushkin for years on numerous systems and have had ZERO problems (and I'm a push it to the limits guy) and they come with a lifetime guarantee. Both brands consistently are at the top of the heap in terms of stability, overclockability, and reliability in stress tests.
Eth (who thinks Kazan has an Intel Inside logo on his forehead (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/tongue.gif) )
[This message has been edited by Eth (edited 07-21-2001).]
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Woah, theres something freaky...
This morning I spent several hours wandering a local computer fair looking at all it had to offer and contemplating what I wanted. I was almost totally set to go for an Asus mobo and 1.3 CPU when I stopped myself as it didn't support DDR RAM. I left the fair and came home to research what mobos could cope with my need for speed... guess which one was most recomended... yep - the Asus A7M266, the same one that you said was good. I think things are beginning to come together now, and thanks for your help - which (for once) made sense and gave me the impression that you weren't just trying to be a know-it-all. Many thanks again (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
EDIT: Although it appears to only have a 100+ FSB? I thought 266 was the norm/as high as you could go? will this make a massive difference?
Additional question for if you check back here: what kind of cooling would a computer need if it was running on an AMD Athlon 1.4? I already know these make a lot of heat, but to what extent do I need to go to combat the problem?
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- ICQ: 57179504
Co-Creator: Hard Light Productions ("http://www.3dap.com/hlp/")
Webmaster: Sounds of Thunder ("http://www.3dap.com/hlp/sot/")
[This message has been edited by Thunder (edited 07-21-2001).]
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Ummmm.... no (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
The A7M266 will run (with good memory and proper cooling) in the mid 140Mhz range for the actual FSB clock speed (I've seen one hit 148 and run rock solid). As a result of the DDR memory interface the _effective_ speed is in the 290Mhz range (DDR clocks data on both the rising and falling edges of the clock, so for example if the actual clock speed is 133Mhz, the memory is actually running at 266Mhz).
That aside, in the majority of programs today you won't see that large of a gain from DDR, with the exception of memory intensive programs (like say Adobe Photoshop (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif) )
As far as cooling, temperature... electronics live longer and are more reliable the cooler (within limits) you run them. They will also operate at a higher speed the cooler they are (actual propogation delays inside the parts get larger as temperature goes up).
That being said, a _good_ heatsink/fan combo is a must for the processor itself. In the mid-price range I would say an Alpha cooler like the PEP66 or Swiftech's MC370. The best hs currently regardless of price for an Athalon is Swiftech's MC462-A.
Of equal importance is proper mounting of the hs/fan combo and use of a high grade heatsink compound. Artic Silver is what I would recommend for the hs compound.
As far as case cooling, it depends on what all is jammed inside your case. General recommendation, fans blowing in on the bottom, pulling out on the top. Keep things inside your case neat (wiring, cabling, etc.) so that the air can flow as cleanly as possible through the case. Almost all modern motherboards have temperature sensors. Use them, watch them.
Initially if your case has semi-decent cooling, you need make no changes and simply keep an eye on the temp. If you notice a heat buildup over time, then you can make modifications later. If you aren't picky about asthetics, you can even go the old fashion route...take the cover off and sit a 2 to 3 foot box fan blowing into the case next to the computer (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/lol.gif)
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So it is infact faster than 266? good, I'm glad I misunderstood - I'm trying to balance cutting edge with prices and it's very hard to get the combination right.
I do use Photoshop though, and intend to run various rendering programs and other intensive stuff on there as well, so I'll want the DDR ram if possible (besides, new software comes out a lot more rapidly than I upgrade my computer).
Thanks for all your advice on cooling and everything, I think I have a fair idea of what I want to chuck into this thing now, I just need to find a place to buy it... (this isn't a call of links to dabs.com or whatever BTW people, I intend to look around London for the correct large scale import stores).
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- ICQ: 57179504
Co-Creator: Hard Light Productions ("http://www.3dap.com/hlp/")
Webmaster: Sounds of Thunder ("http://www.3dap.com/hlp/sot/")
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start looking on pricewatch.com
if you can get free shipping (or sometimes even not free shipping) you will always get better prices in the US than in the UK, because they dont have massive taxes slapped on all and sundry.
and to kazan on his other thread; sorry, didnt mean to offend.
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how did you find out i was Powered By an Intel TrueAI IV Central AI Processing Unit? [chuckles]
Thnx for closing the other thread thunder.. that insufferable jackass zylone likes ruining things as you can see
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Ah yes, you like Intel - I imagined as much. Do you take pride in liking what virtually everyone else has proven to be overpriced whilst not as good? Ah well.
As for owning the thread, it was because of everyone (including yourself) that I decided to own the thread. Zylon is not the only one to blame there, please don't do so again.
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- ICQ: 57179504
Co-Creator: Hard Light Productions ("http://www.3dap.com/hlp/")
Webmaster: Sounds of Thunder ("http://www.3dap.com/hlp/sot/")
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I have a buddy who just got a 1.2GHz Tbird, and he hates the Via chipset in his asus mobo, it causes problems. I'm planning on waiting to upgrade since computers now are all bottlenecked. The new nVidia nForce chipset is supposed to have some new tech that AMD made that will eliminate the bottleneck.
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Kryten - "They've taken Mr Rimmer, Sir! they've taken Mr Rimmer!"
Cat - "Quick, lets get out of here before they bring him back!"
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Originally posted by Akira:
I have a buddy who just got a 1.2GHz Tbird, and he hates the Via chipset in his asus mobo, it causes problems. I'm planning on waiting to upgrade since computers now are all bottlenecked. The new nVidia nForce chipset is supposed to have some new tech that AMD made that will eliminate the bottleneck.
The ASUS A7M266 does NOT use the VIA chipset. It uses the AMD designed 761 chipset.
Oh, and yes, all the other DDR chipsets suxor for the Athalon (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif) Just for completeness... the difference is in the memory latency, same issue that was seen between Intel's venerable BX chipset and the chipsets from everyone else.
[This message has been edited by Eth (edited 07-23-2001).]