Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Lone Knight on June 18, 2005, 11:21:45 am
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How really certain are we that the Ancients were destroyed completely? Maybe they had some common sense and collapsed a node behind them, sealing themselves off from the Shivans in a system the Shivans wouldn't think of looking.
If that happened, they could begin their own civilization again, isolated, but alive. Maybe that's what the Lucifer fleet of FS 1 was looking for? The Shivan rulers went, "Hey, we think some got away, but we sure as hell are gonna get those bastards..." and they sent the Lucifer and a small fleet because they thought not many Ancients survived, therefore, they couldn't put up a fight.
Secondly, just how much space did the Ancients rule? I know that it was said that some of the Vasudan space was once in Ancient territory, but perhaps the Ancients' systems stretched past Gamma Draconis? I mean, since they said they wiped out a bunch of simpler civilizations in the various cutscenes, what stopped them from wiping out early humans and vasudans?
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Originally posted by Lone Knight
just how much space did the Ancients rule? I know that it was said that some of the Vasudan space was once in Ancient territory, but perhaps the Ancients' systems stretched past Gamma Draconis?
IIRC, the Ancients' territory was huge. much larger than both the Terrans and Vasudans.
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Their empire "Spanned many galaxies"
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Originally posted by Lone Knight
Secondly, just how much space did the Ancients rule? I know that it was said that some of the Vasudan space was once in Ancient territory, but perhaps the Ancients' systems stretched past Gamma Draconis? I mean, since they said they wiped out a bunch of simpler civilizations in the various cutscenes, what stopped them from wiping out early humans and vasudans?
That's disputed. The Ancients cutscenes say something along the lines of "Subspace gave us our galaxy, and it gave us our universe" Personally, I think it's poetic hyperbole, but it could conceivably be taken as meaning the Ancients had an intergalactic empire. I doubt that very much though.
As for us and the Vassys, I doubt we were advanced enough 8000 years ago fo rthe Ancients to bother with us. I mean, we were well on the way to civilizations (Catal Hoyuk was almost 10000 years ago after all, and certainly not the first of its kind), but what's a barely-out-of-the-stone-age bunch of sentients to a race that uses space ships, plasma weapons and subspace. Less advanced races were probably those at somewhere fluctuating around our present technological level - primitive steps into space, atomic weapons etc.
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Why did they not kill us off? Shivans. They stopped them from destroying us. Maby even before they knew it was the Shivans. "The Great Perservers" (Perservers or protectors i beleive, Shivans were called.
Some how that conflicts within itself. Maby if we find out the ballance of this, e can figure out the "Mind" of the shivans. How they think.
And if it was a near inter galatic empire or galatic empire (I do beleive they spanded many galaxies) then there is no posible way all of them were killed, and every ship gone. They must have had some trick up their sleeve(Sp?). I think in FS- we would discover the ancients. And maby they are not the 'good people' we thought they were. Maby some connection between the Ancients and Shivans.
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Originally posted by Charismatic
And maby they are not the 'good people' we thought they were.
Who think's they're "Good People"? I always hought one of the key story elements of FS1 was that the ancients were not a nice people at all.
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Everyones like "i wana meet the ancients, i wana meet the anceits!".
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I'm certainly not.
The ancients exterminated several races in their attempt to take over the entire galaxy. They only failed because they came up against something far nastier than they were.
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but since we defeated the shivans (sorta) wouldn't that make us the more superior race?
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We only technically beat the Shivans in FS1 (And that was only with the help of Ancient knowledge and subspace tracking technology), and they kicked our arse in FS2.
[V] have said that the Ancients were only a few decades ahead of the PVN/GTA, except in subspace. So they were probably at around FS2 levels of technology when the Shivans wiped 'em out.
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ahh.. now it's clear to me now.
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The Ancients were forced back into their own system by the Shivans, and their planets were destroyed like Vasuda. Perhaps a tiny fraction of the people survived that (a few ships that were elsewhere at the time perhaps), but with nowhere to go they'd either have been hunted down by the Shivans or simply drifted off into deep space on the edges of the system and died of starvation/ power failure when their fuel ran out. The only surviving Ancient ships would be those left on installations (such as that on Altair), and those that moved into deep space to hide. Either way, there would be no living crew left after 8,000 years.
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I think there is enough info out there to speculate that the Ancients were Vasudan. :eek:
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They're certainly linked, but beyond that we don't know. It was postulated that the Ancients interfered (or at least had a hand in) the early development of Vasudan civilisation...
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Perhaps a few ended up on Vasuda Prime, too.......... :)
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They could have visited more than just Vasuda Prime mate. :nod:
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Originally posted by pyro-manic
Either way, there would be no living crew left after 8,000 years.
If there was one male and one female and they reprodused, and their family had 8,000 years to keep reproduseing, and createing more, id expect a farily large amount of them in the hidden systems. Maby they are sticking to their own area for fear of being discovered by the shivans. I think they are there..watching :eek2: us.
Wow were only a decade of two behind them. Hmm they must be smart then if they can beat us Terrans;7. Ancients must have found those pritty ships of the shivans if they got wiped in their FS2 world. Probably they had dubble what we saw, so 80 x 2 = 160 sathanis's and they no no had Colossus(tm). Musta had sathys blowin up the ancients stars and killed out half of them sathys.
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They helped a civilization arise from the desert on Vasuda prime...
...no idea WHO built the Sphinx, but them Ancients sure like deserts.
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The Ancients are probably still around in small isolated colonies insignificant enough to be ignored or missed by the Shivans, but their civilization will be mostly gone, a direct result of the horrendous decimation of their population and infrastructure by the Shivans.
The whole situation is something akin to what would happen if today the human population was reduced to a few million and our major centres of commerce, industry, and culture were wiped out. We'd still be here, but the 'level' of our civilization would quickly degenerate.
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Originally posted by Solatar
They helped a civilization arise from the desert on Vasuda prime...
...no idea WHO built the Sphinx, but them Ancients sure like deserts.
Pyramids...
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I always thought they never could figure out who exactly built the Sphinx, but they knew the pyramids were built by egyptians. I haven't studied the issue in years, so my info is probably outdated. It's still a cool concept though.
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I always hoped that if FS- was made, we'd be getting our butts kicked, and we'd make contact with the Ancients, and together, finally destroy the Shivans in a titanic war.
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One thing to note....the Ancients didn't stumble on the Shivans....the Shivans came for them, suggesting they had done some incredible 'sin' or act that attracted their attention. If we go according to FS2/FS1 standards, the fact that they were an intergalactic or near-intergalactic species alone means that the Shivan armada had to be massive, otherwise it would have fell to sheer numbers alone. However, I seriously doubt that it was the Shivan's most powerfull fleet either
I also suspect that Altair was one of the last remnants of the Ancients, and that the depleted Shivan fleet that had hunted them down pretty much chased them there, where the last few ships and survivors somehow managed to find their weaknesses (ever wonder HOW they did it? I bet it was while the lucifer was chasing them into subspace towards altair) before ditching and hiding from them.
I bet the Lucifer fleet in FS1 was doing 'mopping' up, so to speak, sweeping accross that section for any survivors when it came accross the Terrans....and then we all know what happened next.
Perhaps the fleet that encountered the ancients were doing the exact same thing with a previous, far larger civilization?
DAMNIT!
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Singh: Bosch did say that whole "9 cities of Troy" thing... the Shivans destroyed civilizations that were built on the ruins of those before it. So you're probably not far off the mark.
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I seem to remember something about the Ancients contacting the Vasudans when they were still primitive and telling them about the Shivans, that's where the HOL got their whole 'prophecy' deal from.
Also, I don't think their empire was that big, since they obviously first encountered the Shivans somewhere past Gamma Draconis, they kept building Knossos portals to stabilize jump nodes and go farther, and eventually they ran into the Shivans, who did the whole supernova deal and created that nebula, then proceeded to wipe out the Ancients.
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well if what we know so far is at least 90% true then we would have the Ancients ruling at least one galaxy.
As for the whole Shivan armada they would of had to come from somewhere else posibly another galaxy where they were probably attacked by the Ancients.
I suspect that what we saw of the Lucifer fleet was the remnants of the huge armada that anihalated the ancients.
The diference beeing made by the Lucifer itself beeing indestructible. or at least so it seemed.
They must of had thousands of ships going after the Ancients.
and if what I suspect is true then the shivans lost most of theyr fleet against a titanic war aginst the Ancients. Then just as they were confidendt of theyr victory something else happened, posibly a new species stubeled into the shivans. A species powerfull enugh to be considered a serious threat by the shivans not just for themselfs but for every other sentient race out there.
considering they were wekened by the last war they would find it dificult to battle both the GTVa to extinction and the ongooing threat.
So they did the only thing posible and logical, they sealed the door (capella) and also used the supernova to divert theyr forces from engaging the GTVA to engaging the new nemesis.
Remember they had no idea how many ships the GTVA had for all they knew the GTVA could of had 80+ Colossus class ships waiting for them around the corner.
The fact that the GTVA has a strict polici on saving capships this would of lead the shivans to believe:
a)either they are that weak that they can not fight us and win or
b)this is nothing but a strategi to lure them into a carefully planned killing ground where they would decimate them.
What do you think???
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Well, if the Shivans are the "Great Preservers" maybe they didn't completely wipe out the Ancients, they merely wiped out a large number of them, kinda saying "You can't get that powerful"
They just killed a butt load of Ancients, which convinced the Ancients that their galaxy/species conquest was over.
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Originally posted by Charismatic
If there was one male and one female and they reprodused, and their family had 8,000 years to keep reproduseing, and createing more, id expect a farily large amount of them in the hidden systems..
Ever heard of 'genetic diversity'?
Originally posted by AlphaOne
Remember they had no idea how many ships the GTVA had for all they knew the GTVA could of had 80+ Colossus class ships waiting for them around the corner.
Actually, I'd wager they probably would know there was only one Colossus; they had Admiral Bosch and his upper crew in custody - a readily available source of information on the GTVA's strategy and strength if there ever was one.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Actually, I'd wager they probably would know there was only one Colossus; they had Admiral Bosch and his upper crew in custody - a readily available source of information on the GTVA's strategy and strength if there ever was one.
Not sure about that, I mean, would you go running at a alien race yelling "We'er weak, your overestimating us! You can destroy us in 4 seconds!"
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Aldo firmly believes that they could extract the information from Bosch's brain.
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I believe they could do that too. Generally by using sharp impliments on the rest of him.
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Originally posted by Fragrag
Not sure about that, I mean, would you go running at a alien race yelling "We'er weak, your overestimating us! You can destroy us in 4 seconds!"
Bosch may have believed that the Shivans wouldn't attack if they didn't consider humanity a threat. OR the Shivans could have just picked his computers.
IIRC the Shivan Sathanas advance only started after they picked him up, didn't it?
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I dont think so. I mean can they even understand what bosch is sayng, can they even understand what boch has in his computers..???
Also I dont think that those jugg's started moving after bosch was captured...! They must of started moving a lot sooner then that. You can not pull 80 jug's out of your magic hat and place them on the ront door of the GTVA no matter how powerfull you are!
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Originally posted by AlphaOne
You can not pull 80 jug's out of your magic hat and place them on the ront door of the GTVA no matter how powerfull you are!
It could have been simply that the juggernauts were moving, and Bosch, having realized that the Shivans had something nasty in store for the GTVA, simply diverted the Shivans to deep-fry Capella, and not continue through to GTVA space.
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We have no idea how far away Shivan space is or what they are doing there. For all we know the third knossos leads straight to one of their most highly developed system and 80 saths is the equivalent of a Shivan standing army.
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Actually, if I may divert to Bosch's monologues, he does make a remark regarding the Shivans being born "out of the flux of subspace". Now, if this were true and the Shivans were actually created out of subspace, what is there to say that the eighty juggernauts weren't simply created in a certain subspace portal? The Shivans, for all we know about them, could have an unlimited supply of ships, if they do follow the idea of an intergalactic police or the universe's method of balancing power in species.
Could it be possible that the Shivans simply [absurd]disappear[/absurd] after they have either been defeated or have destroyed a civilization that has gotten out of hand? If this is true, then the Lucifer from FS1 could very well not be the same ship that killed the Ancients, but just a new Shivan ship that popped out of subspace when they noticed the Vasudans becoming too powerful, blasted them, and then were simply going to disappear after dealing with the GTA.
However, I'm willing to support that the Shivans were simply finishing off the Ancients as well; the Ancients had influenced the Vasudans during their development, so destroying Vasuda Prime was obviously getting rid of the Ancients' legacy in Vasudan space. Then, by that logic, they could have been travelling to Earth to eradicate some other Ancient influence. Eden? Atlantis? Pyramids? Sphynx? Sounds strangely like the Ur-Quan from Star Control II, destroying anything older than 500 years on Earth.
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Originally posted by AlphaOne
I dont think so. I mean can they even understand what bosch is sayng, can they even understand what boch has in his computers..???
Also I dont think that those jugg's started moving after bosch was captured...! They must of started moving a lot sooner then that. You can not pull 80 jug's out of your magic hat and place them on the ront door of the GTVA no matter how powerfull you are!
Why not? Bosch has developed a translator in the form of ETAK, he wouldn't have arranged to go with the Shivans in the first place if there wasn't a form of communication, rudimentary as it may have been. And I'd reckon the Shivans would be possibly more adept at working with computers than verbal communication; particularly bearing in mind that the GTVI did manage to manipulate Shivan technology that was far in advance of its own.
I mean, you're assuming the Sathanas fleet was far away. But they could be a mere 2 jumps away from Gamma Draconis - excluding the one already in the nebula, of course. And I'm not talking starting moving, either; I'm talking advancing, as in upon GTVA space from a prepared assembly point; if the Shivans thought the GTVa had firepower in the form of 80 juggernauts (unlikely if there was any 'back-communication' from Shivan forces during the Great War - they'd know the GTVA technological state and be able to estimate forces from it), they'd assemble defence points anyways - it'd be the decision to actually attack that would be modified by intelligence.
And, of course, that's assuming they weren't preparing an attack to search for something, before sending the Sathani fleet in - it just happened that Bosch gave them a location they wanted.
Either way I don't think it can be ruled out fully.
Originally posted by nuclear1
Actually, if I may divert to Bosch's monologues, he does make a remark regarding the Shivans being born "out of the flux of subspace". Now, if this were true and the Shivans were actually created out of subspace, what is there to say that the eighty juggernauts weren't simply created in a certain subspace portal? The Shivans, for all we know about them, could have an unlimited supply of ships, if they do follow the idea of an intergalactic police or the universe's method of balancing power in species.
Could it be possible that the Shivans simply [absurd]disappear[/absurd] after they have either been defeated or have destroyed a civilization that has gotten out of hand? If this is true, then the Lucifer from FS1 could very well not be the same ship that killed the Ancients, but just a new Shivan ship that popped out of subspace when they noticed the Vasudans becoming too powerful, blasted them, and then were simply going to disappear after dealing with the GTA.
However, I'm willing to support that the Shivans were simply finishing off the Ancients as well; the Ancients had influenced the Vasudans during their development, so destroying Vasuda Prime was obviously getting rid of the Ancients' legacy in Vasudan space. Then, by that logic, they could have been travelling to Earth to eradicate some other Ancient influence. Eden? Atlantis? Pyramids? Sphynx?
Stargate!
Um...i don't like the idea of Shivans being literally born of subspace. IMO it's a cheap magic-style solution to their origins.
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I think the Vasudans and Terrans are not big enough to be a threat, as the Ancients were. But we've "adapted" and "survived". If they were created out of subspace, then we can kill them by subspace, and if the live there, they have a Limited supply. Their own beings in another 'dimention' so to speak, and they transfer to our world.
Think of this: You know those 3-4 knossos's. Combine those with the "9 citys of troy" theory. And lastly, what did we do to stop the shivans? Ta-da!
The civilazations before them knew how to blow up a node to keep the shivans out. The Ancients, being gifted in Subspace technology, knew how to reopen those closed off nodes. But failed, they did, to realize the darkness beyond he portals. But i think, if we cant Build our own knossos, we could simply "Move" one to the Sol node and say hi.
Shivans suck, and thats that. We too powerfull? Hell no. 80 Sathys, if you didnt notice.
--And if a Hades can kill a sathy with not much prob, were dumbasses for kiling it. Dam command!
I think Bosch kinda bluffed the Shivans. Shivans fighting a nother force or problem, and us, and he said we got some big ass ships aroudn the corner so dont take more losses and leave to fight the other big bad guy.
[emotional speach]Bosch i beleive in FS- will play a big roll in the fate of humnantiy. Tho he was insane, his hidden agendas, even still he had more hidden oens then we know from his monologs and ideals, those. Those hiddne ones, will save us all.[/emotional speach]
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I have to admit, while Bosch's methods were suspect, his motives were true. What was it that Mark Antony said about Brutus in Julius Caesar? "He alone did what he did out of his love for Rome."
(I can't believe I just quoted Shakespeare, someone kill me now!)
I really do think that the whole Bosch thing will come back to bite us in the ass one way or another.
As far as the Ancients go, I think they deserved everything they got.
"Let's destroy this planet with stupid bipeds who can't even realize that they are not the center of the universe. These small races make me sick. I wish I could-"
*80 Sathani jump in*
"Oh ****, wtf, all guns open-"
*Shivans proceed to wipe the floor with Ancients*
Ahhh, what a satisfying image....
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Bosch never speculates that the shivans were born of subspace, he simply notes that that was what the ancients belived.
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Maby he dose, who know's.
Tho it sounds cool and funny, that would be a horific sight to see Any people be such brutally murdered like that. A shivan out break 100 times worse then what we got. We contained it, they didnt.
I dont beleive they got what they deserved. No one deserves that. I respect their galatic empire, to a degree, and to another degree, they show'ed no mercy, those bastards!
Something relateing Bosch will bite us in the ass.
By the way, what star was being created, in that cutseen, a monologue. Where was it?
And Finally, can someone make a map, showing where the 3+ Knossos's are please.
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It's not the fact that the Ancients were deserving anything; they simply had stepped outside of their boundaries and limits, and the Shivans had to come to restrain and end their expansion before they eradicated any other space-faring race.
By the way, what star was being created, in that cutseen, a monologue. Where was it?
That wasn't a star being created, IIRC. It may have been a black hole sucking energy from the nearby star, if we're thinking of the same monologue.
And Finally, can someone make a map, showing where the 3+ Knossos's are please.
Someone made a non-offical map of the systems beyond Gamma Draconis a while back, though I can't remember where it was. Anyway, the Knossoses were right in order: Gamma Draconis jump to the nebula, then a jump to the system beyond the nebula, and then the third Knossos off in the distance.
Bosch never speculates that the shivans were born of subspace, he simply notes that that was what the ancients belived.
Yes, I understand that from the monologue. I was simply using what he said to base my theory off of. Whether he himself believed it was not the subject of my post.
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No offence but IIRC, A big star was being sucked into the formation of a new star beside it. I saw no black hole.
Can anyone verify?
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It was either a neutron star, or a white dwarf. You wouldnt be able to see a black hole.
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It doesn't 'look' like a black hole at all. There are no polar jets, and the bright light at the centre is too 'full' (there should be a large, well, 'black hole' where the event horizon should be.)
It probably is a neutron star or a white dwarf.
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Whatever it is, i wouldnt like to live in the same system it's in.
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Sounds strangely like the Ur-Quan from Star Control II, destroying anything older than 500 years on Earth.
I think the reason why they did that was to make sure that no one could "stumble" onto any powerful precursor technologies. Since they knew without question that the precursors were vastly more powerful than they were (when the precursors were still around).
By the way, I loved that game.
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All right, maybe I was a little over condemning with the whole "they deserved everything they got" comment. I apologize.
However, I still believe the Ancients had it coming. A great man once said that a man's reach should exceed his grasp. To paraphrase that statement for the situation at hand.
"A man's reach should exceed his grasp unless he wants to get his ass kicked by Shivans."
The Ancients went too far, too fast, and with no thought toward the consequences of their expansion. They were bound to encounter someone who could utterly destroy them. Had they not spread out so rampantly, the clarion call of their destruction may not have been sounded.
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I doubt anything as poetic as the Shivans were born out of subspace, or were the universe's way of healing itself because of harmful travel through subspace. :wtf:
Perhaps the Shivans wished only for genetic purity. Perhaps the destruction of Capella was some kind of bizarre mating ritual for the Shivan juggernaughts (I believe it's been theorized that their ships are at least partially organic.)
Or maybe the Shivans are attempting to preserve the universe, by destroying stars and altering the gravitational balance of entire galaxies to forestall the eventual collapse of the universe.
What if the first Sathanas juggernaught was only a decoy, to scare the GTVA out of the nebula while the Shivans moved the other juggernaughts in?
Or maybe the Shivans were simply running tests on Terran/Vasudans, attempting to control the course of their evolution.
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Maybe Bosch saved us! Maybe he saw the power of the Shivans and said "Uh.....we got 999999999 colossuss'.....that's why they trigged capella. All 'cause of our buddy Bosch. I mean, in his monlogues he spoke so much about [holycrap]saving[/holycrap] the terrans. When he saw the Saths he lied to save the Terrans cause he knew otherwise the Shivans would mop the floor with us.
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You have just summed up my Shivan Manifesto-derived argument quite nicely.
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You know, assuming Capella is anywhere near the various other GTVA systems, then the most likely reason they nuked it is so that the radioactive shockwave will eventually kill us all... :p
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I highly doubt that..... I think that a good way for the Freespace series to end would be that we make contact with the Ancients and in a massive war we destroy the Shivan queen(?) and the Shivans leave, never to return again. The Ancients move onto their old galaxy, far away from us. Peace is everywhere, and there is a closing scene of Terrans and Vasudans dancing with Ewoks. Alpha 1 watches as he sees the ghosts of Admiral Wolf, Bosch, and Yoda appear.
The End
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Bosch is a dumbass and insane, yet his insantiy will save us in some way or another. Because what He is attempting, Command would never allow.
Do we realise, he HAS inniciated the first VERBAL CONTACT with the shivans. I bet NO ONE EVER has made V. C. with them, so im willing to bet their willing to listen. And in that case, he may have Some exadreation leeway "999999.99 colossus" (IIRC, on last page).
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There are widespread theories that Command let Bosch escape, maybe so he could make contact with the Shivans? I mean...if you think it's dangerous to talk to Shivans, just let Bosch do it and save your own warship.
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Originally posted by Charismatic
"999999.99 colossus" (IIRC, on last page).
They have one million colossi! but one of them is'nt done yet, the GTVA is going down to the hardware store to buy some brown paint right now.
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Originally posted by Charismatic
Do we realise, he HAS inniciated the first VERBAL CONTACT with the shivans. I bet NO ONE EVER has made V. C. with them, so im willing to bet their willing to listen.
[nitpick]With the shivans, I doubt it's verbal communication :p [/nitpick]
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And it is known GTI built the Hades with Shivan help.
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The Hades was based off of Shivan technology and biological study, though I highly doubt off of help from the Shivans themselves.
:nervous:
*runs off to write for GTI Rebellion*
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Things in the ST command briefings suggest the Shivans might be assisting GTI; the fact the Hades launches a wing of full-performance (not busted up like your Dragon in Playing Judas) Seraphim to engage the Orff pretty much clinches it.
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Originally posted by nuclear1
That wasn't a star being created, IIRC. It may have been a black hole sucking energy from the nearby star, if we're thinking of the same monologue.
Actually, its a Nova (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova) (Not to be confused with supernova)
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*Crap*
Some admin delete this post please
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If V were more scientifically minded I would wonder if the cutscene wasn't a subtle form of foreshadowning. After all most of us who are immediately thing of novae and supernovae the second we see an accreting white dwarf. :D
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Originally posted by karajorma
If V were more scientifically minded I would wonder if the cutscene wasn't a subtle form of foreshadowning. After all most of us who are immediately thing of novae and supernovae the second we see an accreting white dwarf. :D
I think DaveB is actually quite a 'hard sci-fi' bloke, so maybe they were foreshadowing it.
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Doesn't explain "the Capella star" though does it :D Or lasers that don't move at light speed for that matter.
Although those could be someone else's fault :)
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Originally posted by karajorma
Doesn't explain "the Capella star" though does it :D Or lasers that don't move at light speed for that matter.
Although those could be someone else's fault :)
Dunno about the Capella star, but I distinctly remember a post on the FS Mailing List along the lines of it being a game and having to follow certain gameplay and design conventions.
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Originally posted by ngtm1r
Things in the ST command briefings suggest the Shivans might be assisting GTI; the fact the Hades launches a wing of full-performance (not busted up like your Dragon in Playing Judas) Seraphim to engage the Orff pretty much clinches it.
When did it do that? I do remember the Zeus bombers, though no Seraphims in that mission.
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Originally posted by Charismatic
Bosch is a dumbass and insane, yet his insantiy will save us in some way or another. Because what He is attempting, Command would never allow.
I see where you're getting. A simple logical deduction:
a) Command is dumb as hell
b) Command doesn't approve whatever Bosch is trying.
c) Since command only does dumb things, that means Bosch is doing a SMART thing
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I second that!
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Yep.
I have a new idea (oh here we go again)..
So the white dwarf and the other new star. Where was it? Was it in a new system. Because if it was, then the loss of capella may be aleviated with the (gtva's) discovery of that system. Tho this is some speculation, Bosch mostly hung around planets that were inhabitable so, it may be of use???
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Originally posted by Charismatic
Yep.
I have a new idea (oh here we go again)..
So the white dwarf and the other new star. Where was it? Was it in a new system. Because if it was, then the loss of capella may be aleviated with the (gtva's) discovery of that system. Tho this is some speculation, Bosch mostly hung around planets that were inhabitable so, it may be of use???
It almost certainly wasn't in a new system. You can probably work it out by checking the briefings of the NTF advance; I can't be arsed properly working it out myself, but I'd hazard a (very rough) guess at it being somewhere around the Regulus - Polaris - Epsilon Pegasi area.
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Eh, k. Thanks. I knew it was a bad theory\guess. But the one before that was good and real. >)
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hmm, i need to understand something.
in the universe of fs an army is made of some normal class ships and 1-2 uber ships right?(like the gtva had that colossuss). so basiclly my point is that if the shivans have 80 sath, is it possible they have an uber ship? far more bigger than any other ships?
if thats true that acctually delete the theory about the shivans scared to attack gtva,because of them thinking gtva have 90k colossuss.(why should they be afriad if they got far more powerful ships ;))
i mean maybe the shivans themself were just toying with us, no reason for hunting(maybe for the sport). some kind of a predators, they came here for the fireworks. is it possible the shivans send to every galaxy a scout after an amount of time(the lucifer) just to explore and find spices that are well-worth to attack? and maybe this is the reason why they didnt wipe out the humantiy in its early stages, because it wasnt ready for struggling\fighting the shivans.
another thing is.... after 8k years u r telling me that the crappy lucifer is still one of their capital ships?, u r telling me that the shivans didnt evovle one bit?
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If it were not for the plot holes, different node maps in game from the "official" release map, the last Bosch cutscene etc... we would have nothing to discuss. :p
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Originally posted by Fear
hmm, i need to understand something.
in the universe of fs an army is made of some normal class ships and 1-2 uber ships right?(like the gtva had that colossuss). so basiclly my point is that if the shivans have 80 sath, is it possible they have an uber ship? far more bigger than any other ships?
if thats true that acctually delete the theory about the shivans scared to attack gtva,because of them thinking gtva have 90k colossuss.(why should they be afriad if they got far more powerful ships ;))
It's probably quite likely FS3 would have seen far bigger ships for the Shivans than even the Sathanas, simply for the purposes of eye candy :D. Although there's no indication that the Shivans follow the same fleet strategy as the GTVA does; also the Colossus is somewhat of an exception to the rule, as the regular GTVA fleet structure appears to be each fleet headed by at least one destroyer (as seen in FS1 and the pre-Colossus parts of FS2).
Originally posted by Fear
i mean maybe the shivans themself were just toying with us, no reason for hunting(maybe for the sport). some kind of a predators, they came here for the fireworks. is it possible the shivans send to every galaxy a scout after an amount of time(the lucifer) just to explore and find spices that are well-worth to attack? and maybe this is the reason why they didnt wipe out the humantiy in its early stages, because it wasnt ready for struggling\fighting the shivans.
I think one of the V staff did say on the FS Mailing List that the Shivans were 'drawn to conflict'; although that doesn't indicate they do it for any reason beyond a base instinct, and doesn't mean they don't have other motives. (or it could have been a red herring)
Originally posted by Fear
another thing is.... after 8k years u r telling me that the crappy lucifer is still one of their capital ships?, u r telling me that the shivans didnt evovle one bit?
There's no actual proof the Lucifer was around during the Ancients war; all the evidence there is indicates the Shivans had multiple destroyers which were shielded, and that a ship with weapons similar to the Lucifer destroyed Altair.
There's also no indication that the Lucifer is considered a 'top of the line' ship by the Shivans, nor did they have any reason to stop using it - it was only destroyed by a fluke discovery of the Ancients data, after all.
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Originally posted by Fragrag
Actually, its a Nova (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova) (Not to be confused with supernova)
"Capella has gone Super[/u]Nova, repeat Capella has gone Super[/u]Nova!"
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Fragrag was on about the double star system in Bosch's second monologue. I don't think the star was going nova there either though.
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God they left so many unsolved question, wish some 1 will just make fs3 :( (preffer V staff tho :))
P.s Interplay owns the rights for Fs series right? i have heared they have a big money issue...if they do and will bankrupt, who will purchase the rights for fs?
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That's an issue better left alone. Use the search feature (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/forums/search.php), just don't dredge up those old topics.
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Acctually i have been always lurking around here in the vacautions, always asking the same question even tho i know the answer. im waiting for a mircale i guess,maybe next year when i will ask..."then...what about fs3?" some will say "yep its coming tommorw,but because u r special for u its coming in 1 min",oh the anticipation ,cruel world.
Beside let me be optmistic, and the search button is not for us the lazy people.
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Stop mentioning that word!!! I can not abide the word of which all Knights of FS(!) cannot hear!!!
Now stop saying that word before some administrator comes up and closes this topic!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Use search and ask about "The Word", don't bring it up here or you'll be burned to a crisp and banned.