Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: TopAce on June 19, 2005, 03:02:49 pm
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I found this race rather comical. Seeing how 6 cars chase each other(with only two actually trying to overtake one another) all through two hours was not boring... it was special.
What do you think about this whole scandel? I am curious about the consequences. I think the regulations will change in a major way... next year.
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It was patchetical, indeed. IMO, they should have just canceled the entire race. I mean, six cars? Isn't there somekind of minimum requirement?
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Next year we are going to have a one car race... the excitement!!!!
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It was a ****ing joke. They should have cancelled it and refunded rather than having that farce; or simply allowed the changes to the tires or ciruit to be made, and not awarded the Michelin runners any points (as was suggested by the TV commentator). Or anything rather than what did happen.
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Originally posted by Andreas
It was patchetical, indeed. IMO, they should have just canceled the entire race. I mean, six cars? Isn't there somekind of minimum requirement?
There must be a minimum required about qualified cars(from qualification to race), not about the car number during race. Once, in Monace, four cars finished(Panis won, then). Naturally, the situation was quite different THEN than it was NOW.
Nothing can be done in relation to this as soon as the cars START the lap before the race starts(I don't know the English term for it, and I am ashamed of this :().
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Lap before the race is called the 'Formation lap' IIRC.
Um... it was known that none of the Michelin runners could safely race. So they knew those cars would retire immediately (they only started, I think, due to regulations or some punishment for not doing so). Which means, even though no rules were broken, they should have done something for the sake of the fans - apparently, tickets cost $85, probably more in other areas.
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IIRC there're supposed to be at least 12 cars to start the race
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Originally posted by Skippy
IIRC there're supposed to be at least 12 cars to start the race
Maybe this has changed this year.
OR
This minimum is valid for the already mentioned formation lap.
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I think the latter.
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For me as TV-Viewer it was a special race, it was funny, i never laught so much in a Formula One Race, but for all visitors of this race, this was ........
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Sorry...what happened?
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Originally posted by IceFire
Sorry...what happened?
Ralf Schumacher had an unexplained tyre blowout in qualifying (or was it practice?); spun off and hit the wall on the oval. Had it not been for protection added for F1 races there, he could have lost both legs or his life.
Anyways, Michelin examined the tyres and found they had a manufacturing defect in them that meant they couldn't guarentee their safety across all 70-odd laps (tyre changes no longer being allowed at pit stops). So the 7 (out of 10) teams using Michelin tyres couldn't race; they appealed to the ruling body to put a slow-down chicane on that track for safety (i.e. to allow them to race), but Ferrari refused to allow this, and a unanimous decision between the teams would be needed for it (NB: they could still make the change, but it would then be considered a non-championship race with no points awarded).
anyways, the Michelin teams can't change tyres, even to a new batch of fixed tyres Michelin wanted to ship over. Their own option was to maybe try and 'go slow', which no F1 team would or could (the drivers wouldn't, and what is 'slow' anyways) ever do.
So the 20 cars went out on the formation lap, round the circuit before settingly onto the grid for the start proper. Except at the end of this lap, the 7 teams using Michelin all retired their drives; leaving only 6 out of 20 drivers to actually start the race.
And given that 2 of those drivers were Ferrari, and the other 4 from the worst teams on the circuit, the race was a complete joke.
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Yes, it was completely wrong. :mad:
But, the drivers were ordered not to race by Michelin, and there was no way in hell they were going to ignore that on safety grounds - especially not in the most litigious country in the entire universe...
The FIA again showed it's stubborness and lack of compassion for the fans of F1 round the world. 'The show must go on' is NOT in their phrasebook. :no:
The race organisers, and promoters should have postponed the race and made the tickets valid for a later date.
Michelin are ultimately to blame though, they screwed up very badly, and from the comments made during the 'race' it could be only Bridgestones in F1 pretty soon...
I feel sorry for all the US fans, this just sucked for them, and nobody really explained what was happening - they deserve better. F1 is a great spectacle, but today it was a ****ing shambles...:sigh: :mad:
They should bring back tyre changes in pit stops now. Even if the Michelin runners had to come in every 10 laps, at least there would have been some kind of race..:hopping:
Damn those stubborn people for spoiling a good afternoon! :no:
All I can say to everyone in the US is: give us one more chance, and we're very, very sorry to have ****ed up so badly...:(
I'm praying they have no problems in France in a couple of weeks, because this weekend was a blight on one of the best F1 seasons for about 10 years...:no:
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Story is up on ITV's site now:
http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=33189
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BTW: Ralf crashed in the same corner, with same tires, last year, and that nearly killed him too.
Anyway, I think this was a farce, and shouldn't be allowed.
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Always seems to be Ferrari who object when everyone else has agreed.
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Originally posted by Clave
But, the drivers were ordered not to race by Michelin
Michelin advised not to race
Michelin are ultimately to blame though, they screwed up very badly, and from the comments made during the 'race' it could be only Bridgestones in F1 pretty soon...
Well, they are to blame, I suppose, ther tires were at fault, but I find admirable that, regardless of the bad image that would give them, they decided to question the quality of their own product and choose security first.
As for the comments, well, lol :D Michelin knows how to make tires, they will make new ones, more adapted to such stupid circuits, and that's it.
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Originally posted by Roanoke
Always seems to be Ferrari who object when everyone else has agreed.
They had the base right now. They have been suffering because of the tyres so far and they were given no advantage. When Michelin asked the construction of the chicane, it was no surprise Ferrari rejected it, finding the whole request unfair.
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Ferrari are, however, interested in making it a club of one; hence the other nine teams threat to breakaway. They put themselves ahead of the sport, and IMO that can't be a good thing, however justified they can claim their position was.
Michelin screwed up, and the FIA screwed up in response. As a result, F1 in the US is probably dead - and that's going to hurt a lot of teams, especially sponsors.
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Then again, Minardi and Jordan accepted. Where did they (Ferrari) miss that F1, with all its big bucks, was still a sport, you know, the spirit of sport, etc?
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They probably saw the situation is good for them. :p
I can't give any serious answer for that, I do think they found it unfair, Michelin should have brought proper tyres.
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The entire race was sickening.
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Hell, I live in Indianapolis, just a short distance from the Speedway, and I was watching the race from home. It really wasn't all that shocking when only the Bridgestone cars started--rumor had been going around since before the race that the Michelin teams would boycott the race or not race once they were on the track.
It really isn't Michelin that is to blame. They simply advised the drivers that if they didn't fill their tires up to standard air pressure, then the tires would blow out in the more extreme turns. Of course, F1 pit crews tend to lower air pressure in the tires for better traction, but then this leads to blow-outs in the turns. The F1 teams that used Michelin tend to use this exploit to their advantage (the traction), and therefore boycotted the race once Michelin gave them a slap on the wrist for doing so.
But, yep, Tony George and all of those Europeans/Brazilians are going to be pissed now.
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Originally posted by Nico
Then again, Minardi and Jordan accepted. Where did they (Ferrari) miss that F1, with all its big bucks, was still a sport, you know, the spirit of sport, etc?
Hahaha. F1 hasn't been a sport for years. It's a means of making Bernie Ecclestone obscene amounts of money - he couldn't give a toss about the sport, so long as he fills his pockets... :doubt:
My opinion is that the FIA should have agreed to the chicane, and only awarded points to the Bridgestone teams. That would have been the best course overall (crowd gets to see a proper race, the drivers get to drive, the sponsors are happy).
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What use would it have served? Michelin-greared cars would only have had one more reason to abort the race.
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Originally posted by TopAce
What use would it have served? Michelin-greared cars would only have had one more reason to abort the race.
It would have given them a choice to abort or not. And they would have a good reason not to - their sponsors.
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I find it a little unsettling that people outside the U.S. are interested in NASCAR. It's bad enough that we have it at all-- don't encourage us.
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Originally posted by pyro-manic
My opinion is that the FIA should have agreed to the chicane, and only awarded points to the Bridgestone teams. That would have been the best course overall (crowd gets to see a proper race, the drivers get to drive, the sponsors are happy).
Incidentally, that was the proposal; as part of requesting the chicane, the Michelin teams offered to start at the back of the grid and were willing to score no points.
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Originally posted by Ford Prefect
I find it a little unsettling that people outside the U.S. are interested in NASCAR. It's bad enough that we have it at all-- don't encourage us.
I find it a little unsettling that people inside the U.S. are interested in NASCAR.
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Whee! Big car go bang bang! Hyuck!
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:lol:
As for your previous post, I don't see why it didn't happen. Bernie and his pals had something to do with it I'll be bound....
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Originally posted by nuclear1
I find it a little unsettling that people inside the U.S. are interested in NASCAR.
And why is that? I find it much more entertaining than any F1 race I've ever seen. I'd prefer cars to actually race each other, not just be strung out over a few miles of track. :p Actually, with some of the new cookie-cutter tracks that NASCAR's been adding to the circuit, that's almost become a reality. Blech. Bring back Rockingham, and give me plenty more of Bristol, Dover, and Talladega. :)
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Originally posted by TopAce
India Napolis
:lol:
Indianapolis
It's a city.... Not... whatever a Napolis of India would be. I don't know if that's how it's presented in Hungary, but I wouldn't be surprised if a foreign nation got the name of an american city wrong. (Especially that one)
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Originally posted by Mongoose
And why is that? I find it much more entertaining than any F1 race I've ever seen. I'd prefer cars to actually race each other, not just be strung out over a few miles of track. :p Actually, with some of the new cookie-cutter tracks that NASCAR's been adding to the circuit, that's almost become a reality. Blech. Bring back Rockingham, and give me plenty more of Bristol, Dover, and Talladega. :)
Well, if you find cars racing interesting.... What's depressing is that the world finds cars going around in a circle hundreds of times worth watching. But hey, that's just me.
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I like NASCAR a bit, but then again I spent a few years 15 minutes away from Bristol Motor Speedway. Mountain people love racing...
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Originally posted by Solatar
I like NASCAR a bit, but then again I spent a few years 15 minutes away from Bristol Motor Speedway. Mountain people love racing...
but not climbing back up the hill!
Hahahahahahahaha!
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I'll get me coat.
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Originally posted by Raa
:lol:
Indianapolis
It's a city.... Not... whatever a Napolis of India would be. I don't know if that's how it's presented in Hungary, but I wouldn't be surprised if a foreign nation got the name of an american city wrong. (Especially that one)
You can eat my socks. :D