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General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: The Spac on June 26, 2005, 10:21:01 am

Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: The Spac on June 26, 2005, 10:21:01 am
I went online and searched your forums for the star map. I didn't really like the ones I found.

So I ripped it straight out of Freespace 2.

It has no "extra" systems, just the bare bones that Freespace 2 has.
(I can make up my own systems lol)

I checked every bit of video footage in Freespace 2 to make sure all names were correct.

No point keeping it to myself so if anyone wants the star map directly ripped from the game here it is.

Official Freespace 2 Star Map (http://home.iprimus.com.au/thespac/downloads.htm)
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Unknown Target on June 26, 2005, 10:28:40 am
This was already made somewhere...:wtf:
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Annorax on June 26, 2005, 10:38:20 am
Quote
Originally posted by Unknown Target
This was already made a few dozen somewheres...:wtf:
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: aldo_14 on June 26, 2005, 10:50:00 am
You misspelled 'Polaris' and 'Beta Aquilae'.

And the official Volition nodemap can be found on the wiki.

Bugger, eh?
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Black Wolf on June 26, 2005, 10:54:17 am
This is as official as it gets - it comes straight from [V]

(http://www.volition-inc.com/fs/downloads/fsnodemap.gif)

We know the two unlabelled systems are Epsilon Pegasi and Gamma Draconis. We also know there's a nebula beyond Gamma Draconis (We don't canonically know it's name) and that there's a binary system one jump beyond that.

That's bare bones canon.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: DarthWang on June 26, 2005, 10:55:28 am
That's the same as the volition map except you labeled Epsilon Pegasi and Gamma Draconis.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: WMCoolmon on June 26, 2005, 11:51:24 am
Quote
Originally posted by Unknown Target
This was already made somewhere...:wtf:


Would've been nice if it was posted in an easily-findable place.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: RED DIAMOND on June 26, 2005, 06:26:28 pm
Excellent start. However, we MUST explore beyond the canon systems in the new campaigns:D
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: aldo_14 on June 26, 2005, 06:47:31 pm
Er... many campaigns do.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: BlackDove on June 26, 2005, 06:58:20 pm
....and all that do, suck because of it.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: The Spac on June 26, 2005, 09:54:58 pm
Righto then I'll update the mistakes, I just wanted an official screen shot from in the game so I could be definate about those system names is all.

Like I've said I've been out of the community for ages lol.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Unknown Target on June 26, 2005, 10:18:52 pm
...Not like it wasn't released almost exactly when FS2 was released? :p
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: The Spac on June 26, 2005, 10:24:29 pm
Oh well no matter.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Aquatayne on June 27, 2005, 01:09:47 am
Quote
Originally posted by Black Wolf
We know the two unlabelled systems are Epsilon Pegasi and Gamma Draconis. We also know there's a nebula beyond Gamma Draconis (We don't canonically know it's name) and that there's a binary system one jump beyond that.

That's bare bones canon.


iv found wat the actual system name of the nebula beyond gamma draconis. it was on a star map of all the ancients empire but i cant find it any more but ill keep lookin. it is actually pretty :jaw:
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Aquatayne on June 27, 2005, 01:35:40 am
if u find a star map divided into 4 areas with GTVA space at the top, that is the ancients empire
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Mefustae on June 27, 2005, 02:14:53 am
Quote
Originally posted by Aquatayne


iv found wat the actual system name of the nebula beyond gamma draconis. it was on a star map of all the ancients empire but i cant find it any more but ill keep lookin. it is actually pretty


You might be thinking of the 'Lupus Nebula', i've read mutterings about how that could likely be the Nebula, extrapolated from Bosch Monolouges, tidbits of information, etc...

...also, i was wondering if anyone had thought about making an interactive 3D map, that would be a pretty interesting a welcome addition to the FS community in my opinion...
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Black Wolf on June 27, 2005, 02:16:58 am
Quote
Originally posted by BlackDove
....and all that do, suck because of it.


That's a somewhat broad generalization, and a largely incorrect one. Homesick doesn't suck. Derelict doesn't suck. I happen to know that things like Lost Souls and Twisted Infinities won't suck. And at the same time there have been some pretty mediocre campaigns which have stayed entirely within the canon systems. Do you actually have reasons for saying that?

Quote
Originally posted by Aquatayne


iv found wat the actual system name of the nebula beyond gamma draconis. it was on a star map of all the ancients empire but i cant find it any more but ill keep lookin. it is actually pretty



I can all but guarantee that what you found was fan made and not canon, but by all means have a look. A lot of the nodemaps people have made are quite nice.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Grug on June 27, 2005, 02:37:56 am
Quote
The Spac
Location: Sydney, Australia


Yay another aussie! :D

You don't know an Eddie Woo do you...? :nervous:
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: The Spac on June 27, 2005, 02:58:01 am
Eddie Who? lol ;)
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Ghost on June 27, 2005, 03:41:41 am
Quote
Originally posted by Aquatayne
if u find a star map divided into 4 areas with GTVA space at the top, that is the ancients empire





I saw that ONCE, and I've been looking for it ever since. Where can I get it?
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: aldo_14 on June 27, 2005, 03:44:38 am
Quote
Originally posted by Black Wolf


That's a somewhat broad generalization, and a largely incorrect one. Homesick doesn't suck. Derelict doesn't suck. I happen to know that things like Lost Souls and Twisted Infinities won't suck. And at the same time there have been some pretty mediocre campaigns which have stayed entirely within the canon systems. Do you actually have reasons for saying that?


*cough*  Who said LS would stray into non-canon territory?

Quote
Originally posted by Aquatayne


iv found wat the actual system name of the nebula beyond gamma draconis. it was on a star map of all the ancients empire but i cant find it any more but ill keep lookin. it is actually pretty :jaw:


That'd be a fan-made (i.e. non-canonical) map, then.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: RED DIAMOND on June 27, 2005, 03:54:33 am
Inferno is non canon and it does not suck by any means. Very strange statements people make:confused:
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Aquatayne on June 27, 2005, 06:18:51 am
Quote
I saw that ONCE, and I've been looking for it ever since. Where can I get it?


im lookin i think it was a fan made site

Quote
I can all but guarantee that what you found was fan made and not canon, but by all means have a look. A lot of the nodemaps people have made are quite nice.


still it opens alot of mysteries like if they are really called that and did he make them up or are they real
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Aquatayne on June 27, 2005, 06:49:38 am
LADIES AND GENTLMEN, BOYS AND GIRLS I PRESENT 2 U.............



THE FREESPACE UNIVERSE!!!
(http://www.freespace2.info/axwer/images/starmaps/new_campaignmap3.jpg)

how do u like them apples:cool:
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: The Spac on June 27, 2005, 06:54:38 am
nice map but if the shivans were that close there'd be nothing left of the GTVA :)
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Hippo on June 27, 2005, 06:59:02 am
Calm down there a bit...



[q]...also, i was wondering if anyone had thought about making an interactive 3D map, that would be a pretty interesting a welcome addition to the FS community in my opinion...[/q]

Someone made one long ago... (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/forums/search.php)
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: karajorma on June 27, 2005, 07:07:28 am
And never released it!

AFAIK Galemp never released his map so if someone did one it would be worth having.

For those who are wondering the map is from Behind Enemy Lines. There's another version with some of those stars marked as Dyson Spheres IIRC.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Black Wolf on June 27, 2005, 09:17:53 am
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14


*cough*  Who said LS would stray into non-canon territory?


That's a good point.

LS will do nothing of the sort...

OR WILL IT?!?!?!
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Ghost on June 27, 2005, 12:06:33 pm
Ah, thank you, Aquitayne.

I'm assuming the blue is Ancients?
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Jal-18 on June 27, 2005, 12:34:49 pm
Why are there something like 6 times as many stars in GTVA space as opposed to Shivan/Ancient space?  Not to mention all the stars in the latter are made up.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: TopAce on June 27, 2005, 12:50:33 pm
Aldebaran is also misspelt.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Ghost on June 27, 2005, 12:57:29 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Jal-18
Why are there something like 6 times as many stars in GTVA space as opposed to Shivan/Ancient space?  Not to mention all the stars in the latter are made up.


We've explored our space. Have we explored their space? No, so we haven't discovered all the inbetween stars in their space. It's not a matter of 'there are more here than there are there,' so much as discovery.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: WMCoolmon on June 27, 2005, 12:58:38 pm
It's from the so-called FS2.9, whose storyline was based on some variation of Behind Enemy Lines.

I remember I was always skeptical/suspicious of the whole thing...and then the 'two' guys (who used the same screenname) disappeared.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: TopAce on June 27, 2005, 01:04:25 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Black Wolf

That's a somewhat broad generalization, and a largely incorrect one. Homesick doesn't suck. Derelict doesn't suck. I happen to know that things like Lost Souls and Twisted Infinities won't suck. And at the same time there have been some pretty mediocre campaigns which have stayed entirely within the canon systems. Do you actually have reasons for saying that?
....


You are forgetting that campaigns are a matter of taste. Somebody doesn't like a campaign because it's too hard to beat or it's plotline is unbelievable to happen. This man simply doesn't like when we step away from canon too much. I don't think there is a problem with this view. That we don't agree with it, we should respect it. And I do.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: RED DIAMOND on June 27, 2005, 03:51:41 pm
There almost seems to be an underlying bias against non canon by some here. Frankly, it is hard to understand and respect a limiting point of view like that.

We have FRED to make our own missions. Looking at that in the most restrictive unimaginative way ANYTHING not included in the retail version six years ago made in FRED by us is non canon. How ridiculous does that sound??

I think people should respect all of the storytellers here, canon or not.:mad2:
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: karajorma on June 27, 2005, 03:55:05 pm
Actually there are are enough ships in the community that you can ditch the entire Freespace universe completely.

My complaints about people who go a little bit non-canon is based on their lack of bravery or initative to go the whole hog and just make up their own universe.

If you want to avoid canon go all the way. Otherwise stick to it. None of this sorta, kinda canon bulls**t.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: RED DIAMOND on June 27, 2005, 04:07:01 pm
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma
Actually there are are enough ships in the community that you can ditch the entire Freespace universe completely.

My complaints about people who go a little bit non-canon is based on their lack of bravery or initative to go the whole hog and just make up their own universe.

If you want to avoid canon go all the way. Otherwise stick to it. None of this sorta, kinda canon bulls**t.


:p You are kidding right? None of this sorta, kinda canon bs? That is my point mate. EVERYTHING "we" do is non canon:eek:

Or to put it better ANYTHING not from "V" is NOT canon:wtf:

A story is a story and a good story is a good story. The art is in the proper mixing and matching. BTW, I totally agree about being able to ditch the FS universe :drevil: :drevil:
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: karajorma on June 27, 2005, 04:14:54 pm
Quote
Originally posted by RED DIAMOND
:p You are kidding right? None of this sorta, kinda canon bs? That is my point mate. EVERYTHING "we" do is non canon:eek:

Or to put it better ANYTHING not from "V" is NOT canon:wtf:  


:wtf:

You're the one who commented on their being a bias against non-canon then you twist what you're saying round and claim that it must mean that we're biased against every single mod and campaign in development.


I had assumed that you meant campaigns that went against canon by doing stupid s**t like having 15 colossi a year after Capella. If that wasn't what you meant then what the hell are you on about? :wtf:
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Jal-18 on June 27, 2005, 04:24:39 pm
Going non-canon is fine, as long as you can convince the player that what you're doing makes sense and is something they can convince themselves to believe in.

The above map instantly shatters any suspension of disbelief I might have had, simply because if they can't take the time to create a proper and complete looking map, it places doubts on my mind that the actual campaign will be much better. (And the "we haven't explored it yet" arguement is bollocks.  The map is from an all-knowing point of view, and even if it wasn't, you should have some cheap "Unknown regions" graphic or something to fill in all that empty space.)
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: RED DIAMOND on June 27, 2005, 04:32:50 pm
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma

:wtf:

You're the one who commented on their being a bias against non-canon then you twist what you're saying round and claim that it must mean that we're biased against every single mod and campaign in development.

I had assumed that you meant campaigns that went against canon by doing stupid s**t like having 15 colossi a year after Capella. If that wasn't what you meant then what the hell are you on about? :wtf:


I need to explain. Yes, there does seem to be a bias, but not by me. I was just pointing out the fact that we are all doing non canon mate. In addition, I agree that plotlines need to be punched up if 15 colossi are in the GTVA in 2368. :sigh:

I was speaking to some degree to the half and half comment made about those campaigns that don't go whole hog an create there own non freespace verse. Some may think that the Freespace community(at the cult stage) would not accept a whole hog verse. A practical decision possibly, but lack of bravery or  initative seemed a bit harsh.

My sensitivites aside you made valid points that I respect. S~
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Inquisitor on June 27, 2005, 04:35:53 pm
Quote
I think people should respect all of the storytellers here, canon or not.


Welp, get to it and tell us an interesting story then :)
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: RED DIAMOND on June 27, 2005, 04:36:51 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Jal-18
Going non-canon is fine, as long as you can convince the player that what you're doing makes sense and is something they can convince themselves to believe in.

The above map instantly shatters any suspension of disbelief I might have had, simply because if they can't take the time to create a proper and complete looking map, it places doubts on my mind that the actual campaign will be much better. (And the "we haven't explored it yet" arguement is bollocks.  The map is from an all-knowing point of view, and even if it wasn't, you should have some cheap "Unknown regions" graphic or something to fill in all that empty space.)


To understand your point. The map would be better if those Shivan areas were marked unknown until they were named within the plot and campaign, right?
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: RED DIAMOND on June 27, 2005, 04:38:01 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Inquisitor


Welp, get to it and tell us an interesting story then :)


You must not have seen all of my ship use request posts:D
Check the inferno additional content thread.;)
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: The Spac on June 27, 2005, 04:38:04 pm
I found three different spellings of Alderbaran actually in the game. lol. I went with Alderbaran which is how it's spelt in the bastion briefings of FS1.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: karajorma on June 27, 2005, 05:47:22 pm
Quote
Originally posted by RED DIAMOND
I need to explain. Yes, there does seem to be a bias, but not by me. I was just pointing out the fact that we are all doing non canon mate.


I know. I'm well aware of that but when I make a freespace campaign I try to respect canon as much as possible. Which means that my campaigns follow on from canon. I may have new systems for instance but I won't have them settled before the Great War.

Quote
Originally posted by RED DIAMOND
I was speaking to some degree to the half and half comment made about those campaigns that don't go whole hog an create there own non freespace verse. Some may think that the Freespace community(at the cult stage) would not accept a whole hog verse. A practical decision possibly, but lack of bravery or  initative seemed a bit harsh.


Maybe but if you've decided you don't care about canon why not go the whole hog and make your own universe. There are plenty of non-canon What-if campaigns that I have no problem with. NTV for instance is fine. But often the reason for breaking canon is simply laziness or is a sign that the person behind it hasn't put much thought into their campaign.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: General Freak on June 28, 2005, 07:43:17 am
This post was unsuccessfully deleted by General Freak.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: StratComm on June 28, 2005, 08:40:35 am
I feel like I should point this out.  The aforementioned starmap catches so much flak not because it is "non-canon" but because it suffers from the same problem as the "15 Colossi 2 years after Capella" campaigns.  We here have a high degree of knowledge about what is "canon" in the Freespace universe, and so we can tell when a campaign has been thought out as a logical expansion to the events that were set in place by :v:.  Campaigns that either adhere to that standard or make it clear that they are not trying to expand on the existing Freespace universe are fine.  It's the campaigns that cannot expand on the universe as it is defined in any sensical way and yet that pretend to do so that we usually have problems with, and only because we can see too clearly why it wouldn't work.

Take that node map, for example.  From what we know of the FS universe, the GTVA expands very slowly and cautiously into unexplored and uninhabited regions of space.  I forget the exact number of star systems added to the "official" map between FS1 and FS2, but it's few enough to count on one hand.  Extrapolate that 5, 10, 20 years out (when most campaigns are set) and it's absolutely impossible that just the systems in GTVA space could have been discovered in that time frame.  And I'm not even about to go in to the "Shivan space" bit.  It's about plausibility within the established universe; that map and any campaign based off of it have none and so are doomed to become that kinda-canon junk that kara was talking about.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: RED DIAMOND on June 28, 2005, 09:26:35 am
Good points all. I think the starchart Icefire release a long time ago was a good one.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: IceFire on June 28, 2005, 12:07:33 pm
Thank you!  And I totally forgot to put it online again!
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Trivial Psychic on June 28, 2005, 07:25:17 pm
I like Ice's too.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: RED DIAMOND on June 29, 2005, 08:26:27 am
I think there is still hope  for the hybrid. Looking at Icefire's map there  are some systems of interest to me. Tegman Tania(kaus) Austrailis, Kaus Borealis, etc... These lead to some good possiblities of encounters in the outlying systems. There are some nebula cluster's just above Kaus Borealis IRL;)
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: phreak on June 29, 2005, 08:35:37 am
have you played warzone and derelict?
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: RED DIAMOND on June 29, 2005, 07:44:06 pm
I played those soooo long ago I forgot. Funny becuase I was just looking at Warzone's map made by Icefire:cool:
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: RED DIAMOND on June 30, 2005, 05:54:41 pm
Just relived some of my favorite missions from Warzone and Direlect. Really nice ideas in those for sure:D
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Taristin on June 30, 2005, 09:43:40 pm
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma
And never released it!

AFAIK Galemp never released his map so if someone did one it would be worth having.


I'm actually making one right now. It'll be handy for the future.



It's hard work...
Preview:
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Grug on July 01, 2005, 10:45:44 am
Is that all 3d... =O

Your nuts! and at 2am in the morning too... :nervous:
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Jal-18 on July 01, 2005, 11:20:20 am
Ha, remember Grug, the forum displays local time.  To me it looks like he did it at 9:43 pm. ;)
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Taristin on July 01, 2005, 11:38:32 am
10:43PM actually... :nervous:


Slight update
(http://game-warden.com/raa/temp/officialnessness!.jpg)
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Grug on July 01, 2005, 11:48:05 am
I was talking to him over msn when he was making it so I could steal his ideas... :nervous:

It's now just about 3am in the morning, and I'm still chatting to him. :p
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Grug on July 01, 2005, 11:52:25 am
*psychic* Raa is about to post an update!

:p
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Taristin on July 01, 2005, 11:54:31 am
And yet, more progress! :D

(http://game-warden.com/raa/temp/nodemap%20starts.jpg)
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Grug on July 01, 2005, 11:57:08 am
Told yah so. :p

The jaggys are gones!

Perfect! :yes:

^_^
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: General Freak on July 01, 2005, 12:27:18 pm
Is that, according to Grug, a full 3D map? Did you make it to scale in FRED? ;) :D
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Grug on July 01, 2005, 12:51:21 pm
Yup, he made it in 3ds Max. :)
He's currently adding in all the other planets etc I believe. Until he goes mad that is. :p

Mighty effort by Raa. ;)
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Taristin on July 01, 2005, 01:30:20 pm
It is fully 3d. In 3d Studio max. And it's going nowhere near Fred. :p
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Grug on July 01, 2005, 01:40:15 pm
Once you've finished slaving away on it, I don't suppose you'd offer up the 3ds max file... ^_^
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Charismatic on July 08, 2005, 10:56:23 am
Great work Raa.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: TopAce on July 08, 2005, 11:11:44 am
I thought there was a subspace tunnel between Vasuda and Beta Aquilae.

[EDIT] Never mind, I missed Vasuda with Vega.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Eishtmo on July 08, 2005, 07:30:10 pm
Now here's a challenge:

Make it so the real systems are in their proper position relative to one another.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Taristin on July 08, 2005, 07:42:15 pm
Or... you can make your own...
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Grug on July 08, 2005, 08:16:57 pm
:lol:
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Eishtmo on July 09, 2005, 07:03:37 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Raa
Or... you can make your own...


Two reasons why I won't:

1)  Why should I do it if I can get some sucker, er, someone else to do it?

2)  I can't.  I have no skills in that department at all.  I weep at the lack.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Eishtmo on July 09, 2005, 07:03:37 pm
Wow, a double, haven't done that in, um, well I can't remember.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: FireCrack on July 09, 2005, 07:16:05 pm
What's the "real" vasuda again?
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Taristin on July 09, 2005, 07:21:20 pm
Beta Hydri?
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: FireCrack on July 09, 2005, 07:28:12 pm
I'm personaly inclined to say beta cygni...
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Trivial Psychic on July 09, 2005, 10:56:14 pm
Quote
Originally posted by FireCrack
I'm personaly inclined to say beta cygni...

Except there already IS a Beta Cygni system, in addition to Vasuda.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Eishtmo on July 10, 2005, 07:40:22 pm
Quote
Originally posted by FireCrack
What's the "real" vasuda again?


Actually, that's kind of why I want it made.  There's a slight difference between the FS1 map and the FS2 maps, and I think it might be possible to use some geometry to actually locate where in the sky Vasuda should be.  From there, we just need to locate a yellow star in that range and boom, Vasuda.

Well, maybe.  Hard to say for sure if it's possible.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Steel on July 11, 2005, 06:35:09 pm
hmmm....

has anyone considered that canon is done and over with?
and that the folks here, since they all like freespace so much. could actually continue in the canon vein and further the work started by the creators of this universe?  why could new stuff not be brought into canon?

i would suggest a board of the most dedicated folks that vote on additions to the universe...  approval then makes them canon and "official".  needs to be an odd number of people so there are no ties, these folks need to be community members that can be objective, and would take time to review the submitted material.

yes, there are lots of reasons it would not work...but how about some ways to make it work???  face it, this universe will not be expanded upon any more...and there is no reason it should not be.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Hippo on July 11, 2005, 07:33:04 pm
because then opinion becomes canon, and canon as we define it is fact that is proveable with elements of the game. Not speculateable with, proveablewith.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: pyro-manic on July 11, 2005, 08:12:06 pm
Steel: That's an idea which has been thrown around before, and has been dismissed as a bad idea. Canon is the universe as created by :v: - it is for them to expand on it, if the opportunity ever arises. We as the community are free to interpret the existing information as we see fit, and add to it in our own way. Hence the many and varied fan-made campaigns that now exist. If certain ideas and events were to be made into "canon" facts, then that would invalidate the work of many people, work which they have spent a long time creating. That just isn't right. Firstly, it means that the work which is made canon is somehow preferable to that which is not made canon. This is wrong, as nobody's opinions and ideas should be more valid than anyone else's. Secondly, the people who created the "new canon" are then responsible for it, and they cannot go back to it later and change anything without upsetting all subsequent work.

Lastly, the people at :v: developed substantial additional material for continuing the FS storyline (and thus the canon), though they have not released it. They and they alone are responsible for any extensions and additions, as they created the scenario in the first place, and a bunch of random people on an internet forum do not have the right to interfere with their work.

What if it was decided that Inferno was to be canon? That would mean that many other campaigns could not be finished. If the FSU Project was declared canon, that would invalidate basically every other major project currently in development, as their storylines will be vastly different. I work for two projects that deal with future events (i.e. post-Capella), Into the Night (the 158th) and the Scroll of Atankharzim. They have completely different plotlines, but both are equally valid. Why should one be more "official" than the other? That would imply that one is better than the other, and that is not something that anyone has a right to declare to the world as fact. Opinion, maybe, but not fact.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Gapie on July 12, 2005, 05:45:37 am
Ever considered multiple galaxies? :D
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Boomer on July 12, 2005, 11:22:33 am
Just to give my two cents...

Pyro is right.  :v: worked to create a base universe that gave the player an immersive environment in which to pursue the ever so satisfying pasttime of blowing stuff up and the not so pleasant past time of listening to Command.  Errr... oops getting off topic.

Anyway, the reason to say that the universe as stated by :v: is canon is so that anyone who wants to write a new campaign has the opportunity of building off of a stable foundation accepted by all.  

I can pretty much guarantee that short of additional material released by :v:, no user made campaign is going to be accepted by all members of the community, past, present, or future to ever attend.  One thing you can't do is pretend to know how :v: intended to go with the Freespace universe.  You can only present your view of how you think it should go.

Oh, and, uhh, does anyone have change for a nickel?;)
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Steel on July 12, 2005, 12:57:21 pm
so i said what are the reasons to do something, rather than not...  negativity never gets anything done.  how about reasons to do something.

you said base universe - exactly!  expand the base, little by little.  no one said anything about things in the future...???  just you negative folks.

i personally have not seen V do anything recently?  lots of material to release?  where?  who REALLY knows this? (maybe someone does, but who...)

this is all made up, for enjoyment.  why not expand on it?  it seems to me that THIS group, not V or anyone else, has the reigns of the freespace world now.  is that not really correct?  is V constraining the work here?  have they dictated that you had better not mess with Freespace canon or else we will exterminate the human race?

party poopers...

yes, there will be some disagreement.  some folks will be disappointed, sure.  but this may get folks to actually put more research and work into their mods and campaigns.  like a badge of prestige.  this could increase the quality of work within the community.

or geez - maybe it is just a bad idea...  ;)  :)
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: karajorma on July 12, 2005, 01:27:02 pm
It's a bad idea.

What you're basically suggesting is in the same vein as the "Let's get together as a community and make FS3" suggestions that pop up. It's a bad idea for pretty much the same reason that is.

 If you're too lazy to do your own research simply borrow from Inferno or something and say it's in the same universe.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: WMCoolmon on July 12, 2005, 06:03:17 pm
Or just come up with a timeline that names other campaigns as being 'canon' with your story.

Inferno and Derelict could easily be said to be a part of the same timeline, even though the campaign styles are vastly different, since AFAIK there is nothing to contradict it yet. Of course there's nothing to support it, either.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: karajorma on July 12, 2005, 06:22:47 pm
Yep. That's basically what I was on about.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Steel on July 13, 2005, 02:19:38 pm
Quote
If you're too lazy to do your own research simply borrow from Inferno or something and say it's in the same universe.


i never once said i was too lazy or did not want to do my own research.  in fact, if i worked on something it would take forever because i am so anal...  not sure why you went down that path with me - sorry if i implied i was lazy.... ;)

if you (generally speaking, not anyone in particular) have a committee (whoever that MIGHT be...), and folks wanted their stuff "approved" (whatever the heck that MIGHT mean), they might do some higher quality work.

but...whatever.  no skin off my teeth!
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: pyro-manic on July 13, 2005, 02:50:39 pm
But that would mean that whatever the "committee's" idea of "acceptable" was would be the rule, and that stifles creativity as people have to work to the new rules rather than doing what they want. I'd much rather we have a diverse body of work of varying quality, than have a narrow range of what is acceptable and what isn't, even if it's all to a high standard, because most people simply wouldn't bother if they couldn't do what they wanted.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: karajorma on July 13, 2005, 02:51:56 pm
I didn't mean you in particular. Collective you.

Personally I don't see any reason why I need my stuff to get an official stamp of canonicity. If I have a good idea people will copy it. If they don't like it they won't. Why is anything more needed?
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: TopAce on July 13, 2005, 05:01:03 pm
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma
...Why is anything more needed?


Money, power, ladies. :D
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: karajorma on July 13, 2005, 05:28:45 pm
A jedi craves not these things. :D

Besides if you believe that working on extending Freespace canon will bring you any of those things youre clearly delusional and should be locked up and neutered as quickly as possible in the name of the public good. :p
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Hippo on July 13, 2005, 05:58:12 pm
Thats why i prefer Scarface's version - you can't lock up respect :p
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Steel on July 13, 2005, 11:42:52 pm
TA,
Tou can keep the power part!  :D  But my fiance' would not like the ladies part, so all I would have left is money, which she would like to buy clothes and shoes with...  :rolleyes:

Folks,
I give up.  You win.  You do know however, that committees pretty much deicde what you are able to do on a daily basis, right?  It is part of life and modern political systems.  It seems none of you trust your oldest and most respected community members enough, so in that case it would not work...  The thought was the community could vote on who gets onto the committee, maybe you have 5-7 members, and they set up standards (quorum for voting, yada, yada) and the community approves those (you know, like voting for a constitution) and then away they go...  But if the trust and desire is not there (made quite apparent here) then it really would not work.  Yep, it would be a large thing to do but it could pay off.  Like I said  - it was an idea, and no skin off my teeth...and you all know this community much better than I do.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Taristin on July 14, 2005, 12:54:15 am
The commitee would decide to leave things as they are. Period.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: karajorma on July 14, 2005, 02:35:36 am
It's not about not trusting the older members. This has nothing to do with trust. It's about seeing no good reason to do this in the first place.

The community has discussed just about every aspect of the game. If you want to see what the community thinks about a certain aspect simply search or start a new topic on the subject.

I don't see any reason why you need to do the same thing and then get some kind of official stamp of approval. If you like the idea the discussion resulted in, you use them. If not you ignore them.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: RED DIAMOND on July 14, 2005, 07:56:38 am
Naw, I like the way it is now, with each persons vision playing out as they see fit. Any attempt to canonize non canon(Non V) material would be a step in the wrong direction IMHO. Free your minds.:D
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: aldo_14 on July 14, 2005, 08:32:55 am
There is no purpose in 'expanding canon' beyond reducing the options open to people in storytelling.  We'd be voting to cut our own throats, effectively telling the many mods in development they're storyline is invalid before it's even completed.

Not to mention people won't accept being told what canon is by anyone other than Volition employees.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Mefustae on July 14, 2005, 09:11:36 am
Y'know, just taking a look at the 'Official Map', and i was just wondering something...it's obvious that the Shivans entered GTA/PVN Systems through an unknown Node in the outlying Systems, most likely, that system would be Ross128. Now, what i'm wondering, is if Lucy and her pals were on a Homeworld Destroying bender, why the hell did She bypass Sol's node in Delta Surpentis to go for Vasuda Prime first?! I mean, She must have passed right by the Node to Sol, so why didn't she take out Sol first?!

...I mean, sure, one could argue that She was simply going in a big loop, planning to exit GTA/PVN systems the same way She came, and thus would come back via Delta Surpentis and thus get Sol then...but that makes no sense, it would only make the extermination of life in our little quadrant of the Galaxy harder to accomplish...Moreover, it is really emphasised throughout FS1 that the Shivans were obsessed with holding Nodes, and yet they completely ignore the Delta Surpentis-Sol and go on their merry way...what's the deal with that?!
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: aldo_14 on July 14, 2005, 09:31:39 am
Because Volition hadn't drawn the canon map at that point. :nervous:

Interesting to note that the players first encounter with the Shivans was escorting ships to the Antares-Ribos node; their first attacks in the game were in conflict areas (this is of course ignoring the Lucifer).

 It's possible that either the Shivans simply didn't know where Sol was (perhaps not realising there were 2 capital planets to target), or that the Lucifer was acting to disrupt the soon-to-be GTVAs supply lines, logistics, etc whilst the bulk of the Shivan attack was launched.

Or that the Shivans needed to regroup before launching all-out war (one of their entry points was Ikeya, for example; which would be an entirely different point of attack to that upon Ross 128) - so you'd have the fleet assembling from multiple locations, causing chaos in the GTA/PVN lines, and then forming up for the concentrated thrust onto the 2 home planets.

Of course, Volition could have drawn up the map after most of FS1 was done/plotted/scripted/etc, and just tried to match as much of the story as they could and hoped the poltholes would be ignored :D
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Mefustae on July 14, 2005, 09:38:04 am
*Feels content after being put in his place*
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: karajorma on July 14, 2005, 11:34:42 am
The other explaination is that since the Shivans were able to use jump nodes that were too unstable for the Terrans and Vasudans, it's quite possible that they never entered the Delta Serpentis system in the first place.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: TopAce on July 14, 2005, 02:20:43 pm
We can observe this in FreeSpace 1. They advance from one system to another between which, according to Terran science, there is no jump node. I need a star map to tell you the example.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: aldo_14 on July 14, 2005, 02:47:41 pm
There's an example where they simply circumnavigate a node blockade in IIRC Antares when advancing on Vasuda.  (this could also explain a lot why the GTVA didn't use blockades on the Shivans as often as some would have expected)

And of course the brief that Ikeya is a source of some of the Shivans.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: WMCoolmon on July 14, 2005, 04:08:05 pm
Or possibly the HOL told the Shivans. Although I can't see them as being so eager to be wiped out to ignore Earth entirely.

Maybe something due to the way the Vasudans command structure was set up, or maybe because the Vasudans resembled the Ancients in some way (ie ship designs).
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Taristin on July 14, 2005, 04:11:49 pm
Quote
Originally posted by WMCoolmon
Or possibly the HOL told the Shivans.


Because anyone was able to actually contact the shivans before Bosch.... :doubt:
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: TopAce on July 14, 2005, 04:14:09 pm
Who knows?
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: WMCoolmon on July 14, 2005, 04:16:44 pm
The HOL did get shielding technology from somewhere. Besides, there are other ways to communicate - they could've sent some kind of long, strong pulse towards Vasuda Prime.
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Mefustae on July 14, 2005, 11:25:21 pm
Quote
Originally posted by WMCoolmon
The HOL did get shielding technology from somewhere. Besides, there are other ways to communicate - they could've sent some kind of long, strong pulse towards Vasuda Prime.


I read that part of the story as; they recieved the Shields from parts of the PVN that weren't too fond of the growing relationship with those zany Humans, and thought simply; the enemy of my enemies' enemy is my...enemy...and, uh...what was i saying again...?
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: Jal-18 on July 14, 2005, 11:44:46 pm
"The enemy of my enemy was really stupid in giving me these shields" :D
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: TopAce on July 15, 2005, 04:52:33 am
Quote
the enemy of my enemies' enemy is my...enemy


WHAT? From the aspect of which organization? GTA? Let me see: The GTA's enemies are the HoL and the Shivans, their enemy is rhe HoL in this case, and the HoL's enemy is the GTA.

Correct!
Title: Official Freespace Star Map
Post by: aldo_14 on July 15, 2005, 05:44:47 am
"The enemy of my enemy is me"