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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Deepblue on June 27, 2005, 04:35:30 pm

Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Deepblue on June 27, 2005, 04:35:30 pm
Read the title. Anyone have ideas?
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Flipside on June 27, 2005, 05:14:23 pm
Have you tried the Runelord series by David Farland? A very refreshing bit of Epic-scope Fantasy :)

www.runelords.com

It appears they are making a CG movie of the first book too :D
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Fineus on June 27, 2005, 05:44:41 pm
Any Discworld novel.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Flipside on June 27, 2005, 05:46:30 pm
True, I'm an avid fan of Pratchett. Even Hogfather, which was one of my least favourite of his, actually improves with re-reading.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on June 27, 2005, 05:53:44 pm
It's not exactly new, but the first book of Arthur C. Clarke's "Rama" series is worth a read.

Book 1: Rendevous with Rama
Book 2: Rama II
Book 3: Garden of Rama
Book 4: Rama Revealed
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Deepblue on June 27, 2005, 06:04:12 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kalfireth
Any Discworld novel.


Read 'em and love 'em. Need something else now.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Deepblue on June 27, 2005, 06:04:48 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Jetmech Jr.
It's not exactly new, but the first book of Arthur C. Clarke's "Rama" series is worth a read. The others are worth it too, if you particularly like the first, though IMO they aren't quite the same quality.

Book 1: Rendevous with Rama
Book 2: Rama II
Book 3: Garden of Rama


I'll take a look at those.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Kosh on June 27, 2005, 06:26:16 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Jetmech Jr.
It's not exactly new, but the first book of Arthur C. Clarke's "Rama" series is worth a read. The others are worth it too, if you particularly like the first, though IMO they aren't quite the same quality.

Book 1: Rendevous with Rama
Book 2: Rama II
Book 3: Garden of Rama



What is the series about?
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on June 27, 2005, 07:13:07 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kosh



What is the series about?


I'll quote the summaries of the books:

Spoiler:

Rendevous with Rama

by Arthur C. Clarke

The new celestial body that appears in the outer reaches of our solar system in 2130, believed at first to be an asteroid, and named Rama by earthlings, soon proves not to be a natural object. It is a vast cylinder-about thirty one miles long and twelve and a half across, with a mass of at least ten trillion tones-that is moving steadily closer to the Sun. The five-thousand-ton spaceship Endeavour lands on Rama, and when Commander Bill Norton and his crew make their way into it's hollow interior they find a whole self-contained world-a world that has been cruising through space for at least 200,000 years and perhaps for more than a million. They have, at most, three weeks to explore Rama: a dead world, as it seems at first, though not without it's perils, and with intensifying perils when it proves to be, in it's own astonishing way, very much alive. Yet in the end it is Homo sapiens who poses the greatest menace, and whose exploits bring a continuously absorbing narrative to it's highest pitch of excitement.


Rama II

by Arthur C. Clarke and Gentry Lee

Decades have passed since Commander Norton and his crew met with the enormous alien ship dubbed Rama and declared it an intelligent robot with no interest in the creatures of our solar system. In those years the world has undergone dramatic changes-from the wild prosperity immediately following the Raman visit to the cataclysm of the Great Chaos, also spurred by Rama. And then, near the dawn of the twenty-third century, a spacecraft is identified hurtling across our solar system. A crew of a dozen is assembled to rendezvous with the massive ship. And mankind has a second date with destiny.

Some of the best and brightest minds on Earth are assembled to intersect with Rama II just inside the orbit of Venus. Among them are the brilliant engineer Richard Wakefield, scientist Shigeru Takagishi (author of The Atlas of Rama), heroic life science officer Nicole des Jardins, stern commander in chief Valeriy Borzov, and the duplicitous video journalist Francesca Sabatini. But even though the crew is equipped with every piece of information that is known about Raman technology and culture, there is nothing that can prepare them for what they will encounter on board. For while Rama II appears to be much like its predecessor, the crew will discover startling-perhaps even deadly-differences.

The Garden of Rama

by Arthur C. Clarke and Gentry Lee

By the twenty-third century Earth has had two encounters with massive, mysterious, robotic spacecraft from beyond our solar system-the obvious handiwork of a technology that far exceeds our own. The first time we greeted a Raman vessel, it was with wonder. The second time, it was with weapons. And one scientific fact is incontestable: The Ramans do everything in threes.

Atomic warheads meant for the second Raman craft, dubbed Rama II, have detonated-with cosmonauts Nicole des Jardins, Richard Wakefield, and Michael O'Toole trapped aboard the astoundingly immense vessel. It's vastly superior technology has allowed Rama II to avoid nuclear destruction, but now the explorers are captive to an enigma, traveling at half the speed of light toward an uncertain destination.

For all it's dazzling wonders, life on Rama II is not easy or safe. Dangerous octospiders roam the vast corridors, and the bone-shaking course changes literally rock the foundations of hte humans' makeshift dwelling. It takes all their physical and mental resources to carve out an existence aboard a vessel whose purpose they still cannot fathom.

Then, some twelve years into their journey, the travelers must face the ultimate fear. For instead of being adrift on an endless interstellar cruise to nowhere, it becomes increasingly clear that they are headed for a Raman base-and the heretofore unseen architects of their galactic home. Will the Ramans seek revenge for the attack on their ship? Or are their goals more complex?

The cosmonauts have left behind families, friends, and possessions to live a new kind of life. But the answers that await them at the Raman Node will require and incredible sacrifice far beyond what they have already undergone. the potential reward is almost inconceivable-if humanity is indeed ready to discover the awe-inspiring truth.


Just as a note, Rama II and TGOR aren't anywhere near as good as the First, IMO.

http://www.sfreviews.net

Rendezvous with Rama: *****, including multiple awards, like the Hugo, nebula, and John W. Campbell memorial awards.

Rama II: *** :doubt:

The Garden of Rama: **1/2 :ick:

You don't even need to read the last 2. The first is pretty much totally separate from the others.

Oh, and I left one out: Rama Revealed. Haven't read it yet.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Taristin on June 27, 2005, 07:28:04 pm
:lol:

I was trying to think of what words the stars represented! Man this has gotten to me bad!




Oh, and to keep it on topic; World War, by Harry TurtleDove. Mad Bomber can tell you what it's about, but if you like sci fi, and you like WWII history, it's not bad.

(A little too much sex, though)
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Kamikaze on June 27, 2005, 07:31:04 pm
A fairly recent sci-fi series I liked was the Depths of Time trilogy by Roger Macbride Allen (http://www.sff.net/people/Roger.Allen/). The story's based around an interesting version of time-travel centered around wormholes, but it goes far beyond that. If you like epic stories you'll like it.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Liberator on June 27, 2005, 07:51:17 pm
Anything by Peter F. Hamilton...he has got Space Opera down.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Ford Prefect on June 27, 2005, 08:45:23 pm
Anything by Harlan Ellison.

Also, the Hyperion books, by Dan Simmons.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Geezer on June 27, 2005, 09:39:26 pm
I've been enjoying the 'Company' books by Kage Baker.  She's got an interesting approach to time travel.  The first one's called In the Garden of Iden.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: icespeed on June 28, 2005, 04:00:56 am
as for the fantasy side of things, i've been reading the 'wheel of time' series by robert jordan. he writes fairly well and the story is interesting, not to mention the world, so i'd recommend it.

i've also been reading katherine kerr's celtic fantasy novels (they go in cycles of four, i can't quite remember the order of the titles but the first ones are the deverry series, and the second one is the westlands cycle), which if you're into celtic myth and culture (wars, honour, elves, lots and lots of blood and fighting scenes, dweomer (magic), some sex, great description that doesn't get in the way of the plot) is quite good.

terry pratchett rocks.

neil gaiman's quite good- 'neverwhere', 'stardust' are two that he's written. style quite like pratchett but darker and more gory (they wrote 'good omens' together)

do not on any account go near terry goodkind. he's a terrible terrible writer.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: karajorma on June 28, 2005, 05:17:48 am
Quote
Originally posted by Jetmech Jr.
Oh, and I left one out: Rama Revealed. Haven't read it yet.


Don't. It's absolute sh*t.

The first one in the series is brilliant and works best as a stand-alone. I'd advise that people read the first one and avoid the last three like the plague cause I found the ending hugely unsatisfying.

Mild Spoiler.
Spoiler:
Throughout the series the books leave you wondering who built Rama and why. The ending is literally the worst case of Deus Ex Machina I've ever come across in my life
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Deepblue on June 28, 2005, 11:22:01 am
Quote
Originally posted by icespeed
as for the fantasy side of things, i've been reading the 'wheel of time' series by robert jordan. he writes fairly well and the story is interesting, not to mention the world, so i'd recommend it.

i've also been reading katherine kerr's celtic fantasy novels (they go in cycles of four, i can't quite remember the order of the titles but the first ones are the deverry series, and the second one is the westlands cycle), which if you're into celtic myth and culture (wars, honour, elves, lots and lots of blood and fighting scenes, dweomer (magic), some sex, great description that doesn't get in the way of the plot) is quite good.

terry pratchett rocks.

neil gaiman's quite good- 'neverwhere', 'stardust' are two that he's written. style quite like pratchett but darker and more gory (they wrote 'good omens' together)

do not on any account go near terry goodkind. he's a terrible terrible writer.


:lol:

The Wheel of Time... Ah...

I got to the 12th book before I decided the books had gotten dull and stretched out. Jordan REALLY needs to end the bloody series already! Books 1-9 were pretty good though.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Deepblue on June 28, 2005, 11:26:10 am
Well... Rama sounds promising, but does anyone know of any books that are similar to the Halo books? I really, really like those, but I personally have been unable to find something quite like them.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Geezer on June 28, 2005, 03:59:45 pm
Aha!  Try the "Starfist" series by David Sherman and Dan Cragg, the "Legion of the Damned" series by William C. Dietz, the "Spec Ops Squad" series by Rick Shelley and the "Last Legion" series by Chris Bunch.  They're all decent Military SF.  And if you want Space Opera, there's always the "Honor Harrington" books by David Weber.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Deepblue on June 28, 2005, 04:53:59 pm
Sweet. Thanks.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: redsniper on June 28, 2005, 06:37:11 pm
X-wing series. 9 books. 8 are good and 1 is mediocre.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on June 28, 2005, 07:26:46 pm
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma


Don't. It's absolute sh*t.

The first one in the series is brilliant and works best as a stand-alone. I'd advise that people read the first one and avoid the last three like the plague cause I found the ending hugely unsatisfying.

Mild Spoiler.
Spoiler:
Throughout the series the books leave you wondering who built Rama and why. The ending is literally the worst case of Deus Ex Machina I've ever come across in my life
[/B]


Warning appreciated. I'd heard that the last 3 books were written more by Gentry Lee. Is that true? Would explain the ****tiness. It's just cliche' after cliche' after cliche' :ick:.

Quote
Originally posted by Deepblue

The Wheel of Time... Ah...

I got to the 12th book before I decided the books had gotten dull and stretched out. Jordan REALLY needs to end the bloody series already! Books 1-9 were pretty good though.


Wheel of Time >>>>>>>> Lord of the Rings.

Never insult the Wheel of Time. EVER.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: mikhael on June 28, 2005, 10:35:00 pm
Wheel of Time absolutely rocks--as an audiobook. It flows better, surprisingly.

The Sword of Truth is awesome, in my opinion. Fair warning though: the whole series is a fantasy interpretation of Ayn Rand's objectivist philosophy.

Jacqueline Carey's Kushiel novels are masterful, if you can get past the central character being a sexual masochist and you don't mind Christianity being mucked about with. These books appealed to me on many levels, not the least the idea of Christ's blood and the earth mixing to produce a new, more wordly god.

George R. R. Martin's  A Song of Ice and Fire is as good as you'll ever get in the realm of modern epic fantasy. It is at once subtle in detail and audacious on scope. I've never been rivetted so thoroughly by a fantasy series. Its a reimagined medieval Europe on the edge of winter that will last decades. There's not much magic, but what's there is inspiring.

Susan R. Matthews Bench series. Scifi stories set in a stellar nation ruled by Law, devoid of moral guidance. Cautionary and chilling at times and less about the technology than horrible things nations do to individuals in the name of Justice. Fair warning: the main character for most of the books is a self-loathing sadist, and Matthews style is rather raw at times. The end result is, in my opinion, utterly beautiful.

Any C. S. Friedman, especially the Coldfire Trilogy. Fantasy (nominally scifi due to background) about a world where human thoughts uncontrollably affect the environment around them, causing magical effects and manifesting people's fears.  Features the best priest ever and one of the best fallen men I've ever read. Absolutely excellent. Also of note is the Madness Season (a science fiction take on a vampire and an alien invasion) and This Alien Shore (a story about the many uses of human mental diseases).

Stephen Donaldson's Gap series is worth reading if you don't mind a story in which every main character is designed to be loathsome. Fair warning, Donaldson seems to have a fetish for having leading men rape leading women. Its happened at least once in every series I've read by the man.

Carol Berg's Books of the Rai-kirah are fun fantasy about a slave and the prince who owns him and the battle to save the world from demons. Some of the interpersonal twists are devastating and the lead characters really are incredibly pleasing.

Michael Flynn's "Star" books (Firestar, Lodestar, Roguestar and Falling Stars) are an excellent exploration of the threat of earth crossing asteroids and the future advancement of technology.

Tad Williams' "Memory, Sorrow and Thorn" series, named for three powerful magical swords is another fine fantasy epic. The basic world details will be familiar, but the story is completely different than you might think. The short version of the setup is: "collect the magic swords and save the world", but that hardly does it justice, and the man's ability to twist the reader's preconceptions inside out, sideways and upside down is without parallel. Likewise, his Otherland series, a mixture of virtual reality scifi and bizarre fantasy is wonderfully bizarre and surprising. The ending is especially memorable.

Finally, I'm going to recommend Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash, The Diamond Age and Cryptonomicon. The first two are nominally set in the same world and feature, among other things, katana wielding pizza driver hackers, skateboard messengers, viruses, discussions of Sumeria and the origins of books of the Bible, nanotechnology, massive orgies, powered armor and a chinese revolution. The last is a time frame jumping story about searching for Nazi gold, along with a lot of cryptography, math, at least one secret society and the strangest method of divvying up a dead person's belonging I've ever seen. The only flaw in all of these books is that Stephenson can't write an ending to save his life. The books are brilliant till about 95% through, then he just runs out of words and the story ends. Its always a wild ride up to the end though. All three of these make excellent audiobooks, btw. I've read them and listened to them and there's just something so much better about listening to them. He's got the right style for storytelling (which is different than merely writing).

There's a series whose authors I can't remember and I can't be buggered to look up. The title of one of the books is "By Honor Betray'd". Great bloody scifi/fantasy series about jedi knights and sith lords--er... about two different schools of psuedowizardry fighting it out against an galactic backdrop. the whole things is very Star Wars, but different, and in a lot of ways better. These'd make great movies.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Ransom on June 28, 2005, 11:32:41 pm
Stuff by Alastair Reynolds.

In particular I recommend Diamond Dogs (tis a short story). His full novels are also pretty good from what I've read so far (except Chasm City... which I thought was terrible) but I've yet to see them surpass Diamond Dogs, which incidentally was what renewed my interest in sci fi novels.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: karajorma on June 29, 2005, 06:23:34 am
Quote
Originally posted by Jetmech Jr.
Warning appreciated. I'd heard that the last 3 books were written more by Gentry Lee. Is that true? Would explain the ****tiness. It's just cliche' after cliche' after cliche' :ick:.


From his previous writings I'd guess that the big unsatisfying ending was due to Clarke rather than Lee. That said at points in the other 3 I did wonder at what point the authors had decided to stop writing sci-fi and start with a political thriller/soap opera in space.

The books get too obsessed with the people onboard Rama and forgot that the main reason people were reading the sequal was because they were interested in what Rama itself was.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: pyro-manic on June 29, 2005, 09:48:13 am
Phillip Pullman's Dark Materials Trilogy. Genius.

Tenner says the upcoming movie "interpretations" are godawful... :doubt:

Rendezvous With Rama was outstanding. a little brief, but very cool, because it leaves so much unsaid. If done properly, it'd make an excellent film, though Hollywood would murder it. I'm not even touching the sequels, as they're supposed to be dreadful.

Another suggestion: Robert E. Howard. He wrote the Conan books, about the Hyborian era of the world (basically a fictional history of early humanity, with magic and monsters and stuff). I haven't actually read any yet, but they're meant to be very good. :)
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: karajorma on June 29, 2005, 09:54:30 am
Quote
Originally posted by pyro-manic
Rendezvous With Rama was outstanding. a little brief, but very cool, because it leaves so much unsaid. If done properly, it'd make an excellent film, though Hollywood would murder it. I'm not even touching the sequels, as they're supposed to be dreadful.


Aparently the film adaptation was looking good. No idea what happened to it. The IMDB (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0388369/combined) page is a little sketchy.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Mongoose on June 29, 2005, 03:49:59 pm
Quote
Originally posted by pyro-manic
Phillip Pullman's Dark Materials Trilogy. Genius.

Tenner says the upcoming movie "interpretations" are godawful... :doubt:

The Dark Materials trilogy was truly excellent.  Very well-written and poignant.  If that line about the movies is true, I'll be very upset.  At least I have the amazing Narnia movie to look forward to this December. :D

Quote
Originally posted by Jetmech Jr.
Wheel of Time >>>>>>>> Lord of the Rings.

Never insult the Wheel of Time. EVER.

No personal offense, but if I knew where you lived, I'd probably be firebombing your house right now. :p I only got through the first two of the Wheel of Time books, and there were many parts even during those when I was mentally screaming, "Just get on with the damn story, already!" I plan to keep reading the series to find out what happens, but Jordan is not even remotely in Tolkien's league.  Not to mention the fact that, even over the course of two books, he seems to have "borrowed" a lot of Tolkien's material (black riders that inspire fear; "troll"+"orc"="trolloc"; fell flying things; a journey in the dark that could be either Moria or Paths of the Dead, take your pick; something occurring in the "Third Age"...I could go on :p).  Call me a fanatic, but I don't take insults to what I consider the greatest work of English literature ever very lightly.  Without Tolkien, most of the authors who have been mentioned in this thread wouldn't be writing what they are. :)
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on June 29, 2005, 04:25:40 pm
Then I guess it's good you don't know where I live then. *cough* White House *cough* :p

You're right. Jordan isn't in Tolkiens league. He's way beyond that.

Comparing Myrdraal and Naz'ghul is a stretch. Beyond the Black cloaks, there's not really many ways they are the same (in fact, what the Naz'ghul wore were more akin to beggars rags). Same with Trolls/Orcs and Trollocs. The only similarity there is the name, and thats REALLY stretching it. I'm not even going to try to understand where you were going with your comparison of Draghkar and "fell flying things." Going by that, tokien ripped off of Crows and ravens.

"A journey in the Dark?" You've gotta be ****ting me, there :wtf:.

I won't deny that Jordan got some inspiration from Tolkiens books (it's likely).

But the fact remains that TWoT>>>>>>>>>>LOTR.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Andreas on June 29, 2005, 05:13:11 pm
Althought it wasn't really released recently, I'd highly recommend Gateway, by Frederick Pohl. A true classic, in my opinion. :nod:
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Flipside on June 29, 2005, 05:58:56 pm
I don't really think it's worth saying that one Author is better than another. After all, there asre people out there who think the J.K.Rowling is the greatest author who ever lived, whereas I think she is a mercenary biatch who simply re-dressed ideas from several other books and now tries to sue anyone who's writing even remotely looks like a Harry-Potteresque work. Notice, if you will, that she does not go near Pratchett, despite the fact that Ponder Stibbons looks very remarkably like Harry Potter. This is possibly because theres more than a few comparisons to be drawn between the Unseen University and her own work ;)
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on June 29, 2005, 06:17:05 pm
You misunderstand. I'm not saying Jordan is better than Tolkien. Merely that The Wheel of Time is better than The Lord of the Rings.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Flipside on June 29, 2005, 06:49:39 pm
hehehe, fair enough ;) I'm not saying whether you're right or wrong, mainly because there is no right or wrong, only opinion ;)

Personally, I thoroughly enjoyed Tolkein, I like Gemmell, some of the early Raymond Feist stuff, and, as I mentioned earlier, David Farland, his books have an excellent 'edge' to them that managed to be fantasy without glamour, even if, in my own opinon, his work isn't quite as polished or complete as some more experienced writers, the potential he has provided himself with to extend the series is massive. He's come up with a technique for 'magic' that is both unique and intelligent, with people making donations of 'wit' or 'strength' etc to their leige lord at the cost of their own, using runes that are burned onto the flesh of the Lord. But he takes the idea further, bringing in such things as Vectors, who are highly runed individuals, say with multiple runes of strength, who then donate that strength, via a single rune, to their lord, this makes the Lord even more powerful, but also serves to act as a weak link in the chain, thus forcing the magic users to not only consider their strategy on the battlefield, but also to consider the safety of the source of their abilities. Anyway, it's worth a look ;)
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: mikhael on June 29, 2005, 07:06:09 pm
Saying Jordan lifts things from Tolkien is like saying "humans breathe air". One has to go long and far out of one's way to write an epic fantasy story centered on apocalyptic events and the battle between good and evil in this day and age that doesn't owe at least a little to Tolkien. He defined the genre. Jordan is certainly inspired by Tolkien, and this is a good thing.

Contrast this to Terry Brooks, author of the Shannara books. I defy you to read Sword of Shannara and not see the near 1:1 correlation in plot points and events between it and LotR. The difference between Brooks and Jordan is immense: its the difference between outright theft and owing a debt.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Mongoose on June 30, 2005, 04:32:36 pm
All right, I will admit that the trolloc reference was a stretch; it's just that, when I first read the description of them, the only thing I could think of was "orc."   I still completely disagree with your comparison between the stories, but different strokes for different folks, I guess.  To me, one of the things that makes the Lord of the Rings so thoroughly enjoyable to read is Tolkien's skill at keeping up multiple threads of the story, all in sync with one another.  Another is what I consider to be his brilliant use of description; the story generated more vivid mental images of Middle-Earth for me than any other story I've read has done.  Above all else, the fact that the three books represent such a small fraction of what Tolkien did is amazing; he created an entire history, mythology, pantheon, many different factions over thousands of years, a higly detailed geography, and even two complete Elven languages.  He didn't just write a novel; he created an entire alternate world, one that feels every bit as real as our own.  To me, that sets him far above any other author.  Tolkien defined this entire genre of literature; that's why I love Lord of the Rings so much.  I haven't bothered to even look at most of the other authors mentioned in this thread; as far as I'm concerned, I've already read the original and the best. Considering that Lord of the Rings has been listed as the second-best-selling work in English, behind the Bible, I guess I'm not alone, either. :D

One thing that did strike me negatively about Jordan's series was seeing that there were twelve or thirteen books, each of which seemed to keep getting longer.  To me, the trilogy is the perfect length for fantasy or sci-fi; if you start lingering into a seemingly neverending series, it's highly difficult to keep a relevant flow of story.  Even over the course of the first two Jordan books, I kept getting the feeling that certain parts of the story were either drawn out for far too long or just irrelevant to everything else that was going on; the section in the first book where everyone is separated just grated on my nerves for some reason. I'm normally a patient reader, so I don't know exactly why it happened, but that's just the way I felt about it.  Some parts of his storyline did interest me quite a bit, and I do plan to keep reading the series, even if it will seemingly take me years to get through it. :p  I do understand that Jordan isn't simply ripping material from Tolkien; I'm sure he has a great respect for his predecessor.  It just unconsciously irks me whenever I see what I consider to be "borrowed" material from him in other books; I'm just a fanatic, I guess. :p I've heard about how a lot of Terry Brooks's work is just blatant ripping-off; I wouldn't even bother reading him.

To make another contribution to the actual topic (sorry for the side-track :p), another trilogy I'd recommend is the Sabriel series by Garth Nix; it's made up of Sabriel, Lirael: Daughter of the Clayr, and Abhorsen.  It's written for more of a young adult audience, but I still find it to be immensely enjoyable.  It's not like many other aspects of fantasy I've seen.  The series revolves largely around the Charter, a kind of Force-like benevolent ethereal presence of bound magic, and the opposition to it by necromancers who raise the Dead and wield corrupting Free Magic.  These necromancers can travel freely in Death itself, which is represented by a cold and dark river.  The main focus of the series, the Abhorsens, are the only servants of the Charter who wield Free Magic, but they work to banish the Dead, not raise them.  I've always been of the opinion that this trilogy would make terrific movies if treated properly. :)
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Ford Prefect on June 30, 2005, 09:18:24 pm
Quote
Considering that Lord of the Rings has been listed as the second-best-selling work in English, behind the Bible, I guess I'm not alone, either.

I've also heard that title given to Don Quixote. Don't know which one is right, but just thought I'd add that.
Quote
I haven't bothered to even look at most of the other authors mentioned in this thread; as far as I'm concerned, I've already read the original and the best.

But with some authors, that's sort of like comparing apples and oranges. Not all fantasy and science fiction authors mentioned write in the epic style. Harlan Ellison's fiction, for example, is allegorical short stories, and they're nothing even remotely resembling what people think of when someone mentions sci-fi or fantasy.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: mikhael on June 30, 2005, 09:48:02 pm
Heh. Ellison. Isn't he the guy that wrote "Midnight in the Sunken Cathedral"? That was pretty damned brilliant.

Quote

I haven't bothered to even look at most of the other authors mentioned in this thread; as far as I'm concerned, I've already read the original and the best.

That's just dumb. Might as well say Terry Goodkind isn't worth reading, simply because Ayn Rand already wrote the masterwork of Objectivism. They're different books with different stories. Only the core ideas are the same. Sometimes, to appreciate the meaning of a story, or the message the author is trying to put forth, you have to see it from a different angle, contrast it against something similar but slightly different.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: icespeed on July 01, 2005, 12:51:12 am
nanana, terry goodkind isn't worth reading because he's a dodgy writer, or at least the first book was dodgily written and put me off reading the other ones.

ursula le guin is another cool writer, her short stories are better than her novels in my opinion but both are... she's got a very poetic, flowy, aesthetic sort of style.

also orson scott card rocks mad. have i said that before? he wrote ender's game, but i liked the ender's shadow series better.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: karajorma on July 01, 2005, 10:47:47 am
The only reason I didn't mention OSC is because the original post asked for new stories. That said Ender's Shadow is pretty new :) So I can pimp it and say read Ender's Game first :)
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Deepblue on July 01, 2005, 11:24:08 am
Yeah, OSC does rock. Only problem is I've already read most of his books. :D
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Flipside on July 01, 2005, 12:33:46 pm
I thought Mark Twain held the record for second largest selling book in English?
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Geezer on July 01, 2005, 05:45:45 pm
If you are looking for non-Tolkienesque epic fantasy, you might try David Edding's "Belgariad" pentalogy.  Well, the bad guy is a Melkor-like evil god who "broke the world" but there's no orcs or dwarves running about.  And most of the main characters have a delightfully snide sense of humor.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: mikhael on July 01, 2005, 08:30:44 pm
Bugger me dead. Stay away from Eddings. That man has never written a decent novel. EVER. I'm shedding tears of blood forcing myself to finish the last book of the Mallorean (sequel to the Belgariad) hoping desperately that it will get better. Every time I think it can't get worse, the bastard turns the screws a bit tighter. The pacing is awful, the characters are unbelievably stupid (IE: characters are shown a set of facts and routinely come to either utterly wrong conclusions or blatantly ignore logical conclusions, only to have one of the other characters explain, at tedious length the  obvious conclusions). His plots have no suspense or character development. In fact, he throws in about sixty secondary characters that are so sketchily detailed that they are reduced to a stereotype and a name, and only come out of the background to perform a taske every fifth chapter or so (despite travelling along with our central characters for the entire series). The story has less of a plot and more of a series of events that happen one after the other. And did I forget to mention that any situation more complex than sword swinging is resolved through deus ex machina? Spare yourself. Really. Eddings starts his series' with excellent premises (the Belgariad has a wonderful setup, almost Tolkienesque in character and quality) but can't write anything to back them up. Just about the best thing I can say about the series is that it has Polgara. She and her father Belgarath are the only characters with genuine personalities. Unfortunately, pretty much all the rest of the characters share precisely one personality among them, with only vocal ticks to define them (one character speaks in an irish brogue. If you imagine all the other characters speaking in an irish brogue, you won't be able to tell who they are at all. Their personalities are precisely that bloody thin).

icespeed, give the second book of the Sword of Truth a shot. Wizard's First Rule is uneven at best, but Stone of Tears is nothing short of brilliant.

Orson Scott Card is fine if you stop early in all of his series. Ender's Game is brilliant. Quite possibly one of the finest science fiction stories ever written. Ever. I mean EVER. Xenocide and Speaker for the Dead are pretty good. After that its all downhill. Tales of Alvin Maker? First two rock like Bad Religion.  The rest are utter pain. Then there's the Book of Morm--er, what I mean to say is the Homecoming series. That one kicks off brilliantly, but pretty much at the end of the second book starts heading for sheer pain. I rembember forcing my way through the fifth book and wondering if he wrote it just to fulfill a contract, since he obviously took no joy or care in the doing.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Geezer on July 01, 2005, 09:23:02 pm
So, Mik, should I assume you don't care for Eddings? ;7 Even after 9 1/2 books? I do admit that the Mallorean was nowhere near as good as the Belgariad - it was one of those times I kept reminding myself that authors get paid by the word.  But then, I had the same feeling about Jordan.  I also don't care much for Clark's Rama - I found it deadly dull.  To each his own, I guess.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: mikhael on July 01, 2005, 10:24:16 pm
Actually, Eddings Sparhawc books weren't nearly as bad as the Belgarath books. There he showed he had the ability to write characters. So, this estimation is after 19.85 Eddings books. I'd say that's enought time to decide if an author sucks or not.

Rendevous with Rama and Rama 2 (don't bother with the rest) were a very special kind of book, one that really can only appeal to a specific set of readers. They're what i call "discovery" books: characters only exist to act as tour guides to a subject (in this case the Rama artifacts). If you're not the sort who goes in for boldly going where no man has gone before (to borrow a phrase), you're not going to like them. Personally I love them (I even have the Rama2 video game!), but I understand precisely why some people wouldn't.

Me, when it comes to fantasy, I expect dense plot, careful and well thought out character development and I expect recurring characters to make genuine contributions. Jordan, Goodkind, Tolkien and Martin all have this. Eddings' Belgarath books treat characters as generic tools in Belgarath's toolkit. It makes for a bad reading experience.

I read a lot. I can generally read a thousand page novel in about 5-8hrs, depending on my interest level. When I was younger, it was more like 3-6hrs. If, like recently, I have a job that takes up lots and lots of my time, I never get to settle into that sponge-like groove that lets me do that, so its more like 10-15hrs. I have a series of bookshelves literally sagging under the weight of hundreds of books and that's just the ones I bought and haven't sold back to a used bookstore. In some cases (like Jordan, Tolkien, Goodkind, Martin and Rawn), I've read the books at least twice, usually more like four or five times each. Even an author I don't like gets a fair bit of reading before I decide that I don't like him (that's a lot of Eddings I've read, for example) enough to write more than a short blurb like "Tepper? yeah, she sucks." (incidentally, she really does).

Authors can vary immensely between books (Rawn, for instance wrote the Sunrunner books, which I think are excellent, but her Ambrai books hurt like broken glass in your jock; Orson Scott Card is another good example) so you really have to read more than just one and write off the author. I can't imagine reading Jordan's take on Conan the Barbarian and using that as a basis to read the rest of his works. Likewise, Terry Brooks: the reason I hate him so much is that he took Magic Kingdom: For Sale--Sold! (a wonderful little story) and ruined it with both sequels and his Tolkien ripoffs. Good authors make mistakes and bad authors sometimes get it right. You have to read more than one book (and sometimes more than one series) to make definitive judgement.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Ford Prefect on July 01, 2005, 10:59:15 pm
In science fiction (and fantasy, but I'll say science fiction for brevity), there are two general types of authors: Those who are science fiction, and those who use science fiction. The former are responsible for most of what we know of as "hard" science fiction. Their work is written to put forth questions about the future, to ask "what if?", or simply to create exciting adventure stories. Many of the monolithic names in science fiction, (Isaac Asimov, Poul Anderson, etc.), fall into this category. Authors in the latter category very often could not care less about creating science fiction, because they are using it as a literary tool to convey something that has nothing to do with the genre. Ray Bradbury, Kurt Vonnegut, Harlan Ellison, Harry Harrison, George Orwell, and Aldous Huxley have all produced this kind of work. Obviously, it's a sliding scale, and many works can be read as either.

Anyway, my point is that when you debate genre literature, especially science fiction and fantasy, it's important to first establish the context in which you're dealing.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: mikhael on July 01, 2005, 11:14:51 pm
I find it interesting that you call Poul Anderson "hard science fiction", since his stuff was almost always space-opera and science fantasy. When you say "hard science fiction" I'm thinking of people like Baxter, Benford and Bear: scientists who write speculative fiction based on scientific theory.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Ford Prefect on July 01, 2005, 11:22:59 pm
Poul Anderson's work is about space colonization, which is speculative fiction based on scientific theory. In contrast, it is not about the fundamental nature of humanity, theological questions, or contemporary politics.

Like I said, I don't mean to imply hard and fast rules here. The concept of "hard" and "soft" science fiction is sort of nonsensical anyway. What  I'm getting at is that literature is defined by its purpose, not its content.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Martinus on July 02, 2005, 12:54:27 am
[color=66ff00]Iain M. Banks.

Shrike put me on to him a while back. Clever, inventive, touching and humourous. I think I may run out of superlatives for his books. :)
[/color]
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: karajorma on July 02, 2005, 04:17:16 am
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
Rendevous with Rama and Rama 2 (don't bother with the rest) were a very special kind of book, one that really can only appeal to a specific set of readers. They're what i call "discovery" books: characters only exist to act as tour guides to a subject (in this case the Rama artifacts). If you're not the sort who goes in for boldly going where no man has gone before (to borrow a phrase), you're not going to like them. Personally I love them (I even have the Rama2 video game!), but I understand precisely why some people wouldn't.


It's worth noting that this is why the third and fourth books are so bad. Rama is reduced to simply being the place where the events of those books occur. The central question of what Rama is becomes an afterthought.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Flipside on July 02, 2005, 07:48:14 am
Try the Foundation Quintet by Asimov if you prefer something more down to Earth, as it were. I've owned them for nearly 20 years, and I still sit and read through them again from time to time, especially the first 2-3 books, which are a collection of 'short' jumping from one phase in the Foundations growth to the next. You suddenly reaslise that what Asimov REALLY was, was a study of Human nature, the science fiction covers a lot of very carefully thought out physcology ;)
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: mikhael on July 02, 2005, 11:03:39 am
You know, I need to read Foundation. I picked up the unauthorized sequel, Psychohistorical Crisis (finding out only later that it was related) and I loved it. If this guy was just writing a story inside Asimov's world, then I need to go read the stories written by Asimov in that world. It was AMAZING.

For what its worth, I've read precisely one Iain M. Banks Culture novel (Player of Games). I have to read the rest. I bought Excession the other day, but haven't got to it yet.
Title: Good recent fantasy/sci fi books.
Post by: Ford Prefect on July 02, 2005, 11:30:36 am
Quote
Originally posted by Flipside
You suddenly reaslise that what Asimov REALLY was, was a study of Human nature, the science fiction covers a lot of very carefully thought out physcology ;)

I know it's sort of sacrilegous in the science fiction world to say anything "bad" about Asimov, but his studies of human nature are rudimentary by comparison. That's not to say they aren't interesting-- the parallel in the Foundation books to the fall of Rome is certainly creative-- but he was still an author who focused more on telling the story than anything else.