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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: aldo_14 on July 01, 2005, 06:14:05 am

Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: aldo_14 on July 01, 2005, 06:14:05 am
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/07/01/bush_net_policy/
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: vyper on July 01, 2005, 06:20:48 am
Right, now it's war.
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: Turnsky on July 01, 2005, 06:25:21 am
well, ****. considering how global this is, this can't end well..
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: Rictor on July 01, 2005, 06:32:00 am
eJihad? Virtual truck bombings, ahoy!
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: Andreas on July 01, 2005, 06:44:15 am
:lol: Time to see how good ICE defenses they have...;7
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: redsniper on July 01, 2005, 08:24:11 am
Bush wants to control all the internets. :nervous:
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: IceFire on July 01, 2005, 08:57:28 am
Wow...incredible.
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: EtherShock on July 01, 2005, 09:40:51 am
Incredibly stupid. Do we expect any less from the US government?
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: Deepblue on July 01, 2005, 11:49:27 am
Quote
Originally posted by EtherShock
Incredibly stupid. Do we expect any less from any government?

Fixed. :D
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: Ford Prefect on July 01, 2005, 12:02:40 pm
"The US government has reason to believe that the terrorists are planning on using l337 h4x to pwn us in de_dust2. We will not stand for this hatred of freedom."
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: Taristin on July 01, 2005, 12:10:51 pm
And we have the nerve to complain about China's censoring the net...
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: Kosh on July 01, 2005, 02:44:48 pm
:wtf: Is this a joke? :wtf:
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: Zarax on July 01, 2005, 04:13:06 pm
- "And they will chain you talking about freedom"
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: mikhael on July 01, 2005, 08:14:48 pm
HA!

Come on guys, there's a really bloody simple solution.

Besides, as I've said before, its OUR Internet. ;)


*starts counting*
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: Rictor on July 01, 2005, 08:21:09 pm
By the way, how many root DNS servers are there anyway? I imagine most of them would be outside the US, no?
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: Unknown Target on July 01, 2005, 08:27:15 pm
Wow.
That sucks.
Next anti-freedom crisis?
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: aldo_14 on July 01, 2005, 08:39:49 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
By the way, how many root DNS servers are there anyway? I imagine most of them would be outside the US, no?


http://www.root-servers.org/

Most are US; note that I think 2-3 of those ones have servers both in the US and otherwise.

  Note that this issue is not so much about the physical location of the servers as who has central control and administration over them.  It's a sign that the US is not willing to abdicate any of the top (or should it be bottom?) level control to other countries - or specifically the UN - over the DNS system.

For me, given that the internet is unquestionably a global 'entity', giving a single country control over it - especially when that country would be able to administer it based upon its own 'national security concerns' - it seems only fair that the UN should be given at the very least a say, what with it being the only entity representing all net-using countries.
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: mikhael on July 01, 2005, 08:40:01 pm
Most DNS root servers are in the continental US. However, if they weren't it wouldn't matter. INTERNIC is in the US and they can just stop updating all the external root servers.

Come on people, the solution is pretty damned obvious.
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: Rictor on July 01, 2005, 08:48:16 pm
Bloody revolution? Senseless violence? Lobby groups?
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: Bobboau on July 01, 2005, 09:28:15 pm
you could always just route around us, we own the hardware it seems only logical that we should administer it. there is nothing stopping you from building your own internet.
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: Unknown Target on July 01, 2005, 10:20:09 pm
Except compatability issues. But he's right, why can't everyone else just build DNS servers of their own?
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: YodaSean on July 01, 2005, 10:30:22 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
you could always just route around us, we own the hardware it seems only logical that we should administer it. there is nothing stopping you from building your own internet.


Yeah, but it would be such a pain in the ass to have two(or more) internets.  *4 years into the future, goes to cnn.com and hits a farm porn site).  "oops, wrong internet..."
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: mikhael on July 01, 2005, 10:32:07 pm
The problem isn't the DNS servers. The problem is INTERNIC. We own the core registry. Oh, yeah, every little country here and there has its own country TLD (.us, .au, .fr, .de, et al) but the vast majority of interesting content is under .com, .net and .org.

The solution isn't to build your own DNS servers. The solution is to build a new core registry and then route-hijack all requests intended for the root nameservers to the new  registry's root nameservers. All it would take is everyone else of any import everywhere but the US to get off their asses, bite the bullet and not let the US get away with it.

But it won't happen, because everyone knows, deep down in their hearts, that the Internet belongs to the United States. If they didn't, this situation would have been fixed already, seeing as how all of you outnumber all of us by about 20:1.
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: castor on July 02, 2005, 04:31:08 am
Quote
Given the Internet's importance to the world’s economy, it is essential that the underlying DNS of the Internet remain stable and secure

Given the Internet's importance to the world’s economy, it is essential that the underlying DNS of the Internet remain in control of US government.

Why the hell would anyone disagree :doubt:
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: Zarax on July 02, 2005, 04:34:23 am
Quote
Originally posted by castor

Given the Internet's importance to the world’s economy, it is essential that the underlying DNS of the Internet remain in control of US government.

Why the hell would anyone disagree :doubt:


Given the Internet's importance to the world’s economy, it is essential that the underlying DNS of the Internet remain in control of an International Body.

Why the hell anyone would deny Democracy :doubt:
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: Hunter on July 02, 2005, 05:06:10 am
The US will lose - Though it take a thousand years, we will be FREE. :P

Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: TrashMan on July 02, 2005, 06:17:49 am
Freedom is na illusion...

I don't really igva a damn..
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: Admiral LSD on July 02, 2005, 06:57:41 am
*Bush takes a leak*

Public: OH NOES!!1!1 OUR FREEDOM@!1!

*yawn*

wake me up when I have to care.
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on July 02, 2005, 08:32:58 am
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael


But it won't happen, because everyone knows, deep down in their hearts, that the Internet belongs to the United States.  


haha, but bollocks.
the reason is just that changing the whole thing would simply cost too much in many (un)expected ways.
A matter of practicality, not (your) nationalism.
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: mikhael on July 02, 2005, 11:04:46 am
Methinks someone is missing his Sarcasm Meter.
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: Janos on July 02, 2005, 12:49:39 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Zarax


Given the Internet's importance to the world’s economy, it is essential that the underlying DNS of the Internet remain in control of an International Body.

Why the hell anyone would deny Democracy :doubt:


The Internets are not democratic.
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: Janos on July 02, 2005, 12:50:18 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Deepblue

Fixed. :D


Because not all governments are US governments?
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: Unknown Target on July 02, 2005, 12:56:03 pm
Here, put this on. *hands Janos a sense of humor*
He meant that all govnerments are dumb, not all governments that aren't US governments are dumb.
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: Zarax on July 02, 2005, 01:20:45 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Janos


The Internets are not democratic.


You're right, they're anarchic.
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: Janos on July 02, 2005, 01:31:57 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Unknown Target
Here, put this on. *hands Janos a sense of humor*
He meant that all govnerments are dumb, not all governments that aren't US governments are dumb.


I pretty much disagree with "all governments are dumb", though.
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: MatthewPapa on July 02, 2005, 01:44:24 pm
The USA owns the hardware, they funded its early and current R&D so my opinion is that they should keep it at least for now. And plus, why fix somethign if it isnt broken? The USA hasnt done anything (to my knowledge anyway) showing that they cant handle the responsibility of managing the root servers.
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: mikhael on July 02, 2005, 07:19:59 pm
In that, MatthewPapa, you are mistaken. The handover of INTERNIC's responsibilities to Verisign was botched. The splitout to multiple competitive registrars was botched. Verisign continues to mismanage their duties horribly. ICANN has mishandled their role continually. All of this is happening as a direct result of the US federal government tinkering with a system that was working fine (albeit noncompetitively).
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: Unknown Target on July 02, 2005, 07:37:56 pm
I think what MathewPappa was saying was that the US hasn't exactly done anything to harm the internet itself. We're still surfing fine, it's not like anti-US websites have been cleansed off the net. We're a stable country and pretty good at maintaining the internet. While I think it'd be better if it was in international control, I'm not going to start sabre-rattling until the US does something that definately proves that it should not have the responsibility it does.

Quote

I pretty much disagree with "all governments are dumb", though.


That's nice. That's your opinion, that's his. He expressed his in a joke. Yay for both of you :rolleyes:
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: mikhael on July 02, 2005, 08:05:00 pm
That's just it: the US SHOULD have the responsibility it has. We did create it, we've administered it for this long. This is, however, the Internet and the Internet is as open source as it gets. If other people think they can do better, the solution is simple: fork the project. Set up another shop. The rest is down to the market.
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: Rictor on July 02, 2005, 08:06:39 pm
As long as they keep the porn flowing, they can avoid full on mutiny. But mess with the sacred cow, and there's going to be trouble.
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: Zarax on July 03, 2005, 02:56:47 am
Quote
Originally posted by MatthewPapa
The USA hasnt done anything (to my knowledge anyway) showing that they cant handle the responsibility of managing the root servers.


Ask Indymedia about how the US government policy toward their servers...

True they aren't alone but a centralized structure is easier to control...
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: Kosh on July 03, 2005, 03:27:49 am
True, the US hasn't done anything like try to destroy any websites that oppose it.........yet :nervous:


With a grab like this it is only a matter of time before it becomes abused.
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: kasperl on July 03, 2005, 03:40:30 am
Quote
Originally posted by Kosh
True, the US hasn't done anything like try to destroy any websites that oppose it.........yet :nervous:


With a grab like this it is only a matter of time before it becomes abused.


As Zarax said, do a google on Indymedia.
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on July 03, 2005, 07:59:30 am
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
Methinks someone is missing his Sarcasm Meter.


really, cause the US "owning" the internets because it was invented there is surely an argument I've heard before...

Besides, my sarcasm meter works in metric only, not imperial :p
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: Mefustae on July 03, 2005, 08:45:02 am
Quote
The vision of a US-controlled internet infrastructure will be anathema to large parts of the world however and it is a demonstration of the US administration’s failure to think globally that it doesn't recognise that there is surprisingly little preventing other parts of the world from creating a second Internet outside of US control.


I can honestly imagine what happened in the UN when they realised this;


American Representative - "We are taking presidence over the entirety of the Internet...how you like them apples!"

Australian Representative - "Yeah? Yeah? Well...well, we'll make our OWN Internet, with...Blackjack! And...Hookers! ...It'll be called...the Internet2[No Bushes]...how you like THEM apples!"

Everyone Else - "...Applesauce B***h!


[Please note, this post is intended for those who have seen 'Jay&Silent Bob Strike Back', and watch 'Futurama']
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: Swamp_Thing on July 03, 2005, 04:55:46 pm
Well well, i have to say i´m impressed my country did the right thing for once. See,  most of the content of our national internet sites is located under our own DNS. We don´t use .com, we use mostly .pt. And if i understand all this mumbo jumbo right, we can run our national grid independentlly, if Bush does decide to pull a fast one. Or so i think, because this crap is hard to understand...

:nervous:
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: Kosh on July 04, 2005, 12:11:08 am
Which country do you live in?
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: aldo_14 on July 04, 2005, 03:53:57 am
.pt is Portugal I think.
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: WMCoolmon on July 04, 2005, 03:57:05 am
"My internet could DOS your internet!"
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: Zarax on July 04, 2005, 03:58:14 am
"My internet is faster than your by 1bps!"
Title: US wants DNS hegemony?
Post by: Mefustae on July 04, 2005, 05:22:02 am
They'll never get full control of the Internet, and you know why? One reason; you see ther-



*Paragraph deleted by U.S. Department of Defence - Have a nice day, and enjoy Freedom*



-ybody just dies! So really, for that simple reason and that reason alone, the US will never be able to control the Internet.