Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Deepblue on July 04, 2005, 02:25:31 pm
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http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2005/07/01/pgr3_screenshots
Very, very, nice looking game.
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You should know better than to believe publicity shots
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You don't believe that's in-game? That's the whole point of the article...
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Originally posted by Deepblue
You don't believe that's in-game? That's the whole point of the article...
[color=66ff00]Remember Microsoft's tech demos for the original xbox?
I'd wait a bit to see...
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Speaking just for Bizzare Creations, if you look at the E3 tech demos for PGR 1 & 2, they actually look a little worse than the final game.
OT: I find it kind of funny that the same people who lauded the Killzone trailer are doubting this stuff...
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]Remember Microsoft's tech demos for the original xbox?
I'd wait a bit to see...
[/color]
Waiting a bit is always good, but it's not too far off until release time.
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Why do I get the distinct impression you're an Xbox360 fanboy Deepblue?
As for the screenshots, I thinking that they're real, and spectacular.
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Killzone 2
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Originally posted by Rictor
Why do I get the distinct impression you're an Xbox360 fanboy Deepblue?
As for the screenshots, I thinking that they're real, and spectacular.
I'm an anti-fanboy. I don't care what kind. I am partial to the Xbox exclusive games though.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Killzone 2
??
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[color=66ff00]I find an xbox to be a far better multimedia player than a games console, mine's got an xecuter 2.6 chip and an 80gig HDD in it. I got it for free as my friend damaged the circuit board tracks.
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Deepblue, Killzone has already been released, the trailer you are mentioning is from Killzone 2.
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More screenshots: http://www.bizarreonline.net/page.php?p=screenshots&f=pgr3
They do look unbelievable. I don't think they would just lie off-handedly about these things (bad, bad long-term consequences), so they're probably in-game screenshots. So..er..what do you call n antediluvian 5-year-old, obsolete 750mhz PC? :) :)
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the cars could look better
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I'm inclined to agree with Bobboau on this one... the scenery is very nice - although lets face it - with the processing power of the upcoming consoles it should look that good. The cars are far too perfect, shiny.. generally fake.
Fake:
http://www.bizarreonline.net/img/screenshots/pgr3/02.jpg
Real:
http://www.car-wallpaper.net/mclaren/images/srcMcLaren-F1-1997-003.jpg
The real one isn't the best shot - but it's obvious that it's real. Ho hum...
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Personally I'd like perfect fake than average real.
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But a mix looks out of place :)
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Originally posted by Ghostavo
Deepblue, Killzone has already been released, the trailer you are mentioning is from Killzone 2.
That's not for sure. The trailer didn't give a number, and Geurilla has previously said Killzone 2 will be for PS2...
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Originally posted by Kalfireth
I'm inclined to agree with Bobboau on this one... the scenery is very nice - although lets face it - with the processing power of the upcoming consoles it should look that good. The cars are far too perfect, shiny.. generally fake.
Fake:
http://www.bizarreonline.net/img/screenshots/pgr3/02.jpg
Real:
http://www.car-wallpaper.net/mclaren/images/srcMcLaren-F1-1997-003.jpg
The real one isn't the best shot - but it's obvious that it's real. Ho hum...
Exactly why I like Rallisport 2. As you drive your car collects dirt/dust/mud/snow. It makes for a pretty awesome effect after a long rally.
EDIT: Another note about realism, PGR 3 will have fully modeled functioning interiors.
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those screenshots look like real life miniatures/models
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why?
are you going to be geting out and shoping for scented candels in the middle of a race or something?
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nowadays buildings in games are texture baked with radiosity, so they look as good as high quality renders because the game doesn't need to render them in real time.
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Yeah, the cars need to have a little work done on 'em. The buildings are close to photorealism, but the cars are obviously rendered. Considering the buildings are going to be whizzing by at high speed, that seems a little wrong to me. :p
Although, spectators are usually the thing that kills the realism of a lot of racing games. Nothing like a bunch of heads smeared across a giant plane to drag you out of your suspension of disbelief. :p
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Originally posted by Deepblue
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Don't judge until you see it on your TV, with a controller in your hands.
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racing games tend to have really good graphics because of the very gradual way scenry is rendered. the game engine has the time to load scenery graphics and has a more accurate capacity to predict what needs to be loaded next. unlike a space sim in which every object is visible to the player, or an fps which needs to swap textures at lightning speed.
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Originally posted by Deepblue
That's not for sure. The trailer didn't give a number, and Geurilla has previously said Killzone 2 will be for PS2...
http://ps2.gamespy.com/playstation-2/killzone/
http://ps2.gamespy.com/playstation-2/killzone-2/
http://ps2.gamespy.com/playstation-3/killzone-next-gen/
Look at the Killzone 2 trailers description and look at the final link
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Carl's right. You should be able to get those graphics on an Xbox or PS2 right now--presuming you can get either machine to honor normal maps. Hell you only need the normal maps for getting realtime shadowing on complex textures for cheap. If you skip the normal maps, you can just bake everything and use a clean node based rendering system to spend more passes on less scenery. Considering its a racing game, you can cheat just by throwing in a speed-blur (because blur makes it feel faster, right? ;)) and downgrading the texutres and geometry behind the blur.
I'll be more impressed when I see that kind of realism in an action-platformer or first person shooter with destructable scenery. That's when you'll see the real performance of the graphics hardware under stress.
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Looks great. Personally I still am impressed with the quality of the graphics on Forza Motorsport. Great buy I made with that game...very good to play, very nice to look at.
This graphics are better...and very impressive in the new techniques but the new games just look more fantastic while the old games still have quite a bit of charm. Not like it used to be...the old game always looked really old next to the new one.
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Originally posted by Deepblue
EDIT: Another note about realism, PGR 3 will have fully modeled functioning interiors.
[color=66ff00]Is nobody else bothered by this?
It's been discussed that the new consoles are designed to be mainly graphics centric. This means that fancy looking visuals take priority over A.I.
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Well you wouldn't want the bad guys to be all pixelly when they're walking into walls and running over their own grenades, would you?
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Originally posted by Ford Prefect
Well you wouldn't want the bad guys to be all pixelly when they're walking into walls and running over their own grenades, would you?
[color=66ff00]Heheh I still remember what happened when one of the grunts in halflife misthrew a grenade.
They'd all just crouch down around it and wait. :lol:
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]Is nobody else bothered by this?
It's been discussed that the new consoles are designed to be mainly graphics centric. This means that fancy looking visuals take priority over A.I.
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Did you note the quote in the article about having 35 artists (plus outsourced work) and taking 2 years to create the art?
Can't help but wonder how different the game will be from the last one....not very, I wager. I have to say the next-gen consoles (well, except the reclusive Rev cos no-one's even seen that one) get less & less attractive each time I read about them. It's seemingly all big-dick wavery graphics with ****-all by way of innovation.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Did you note the quote in the article about having 35 artists (plus outsourced work) and taking 2 years to create the art?
Can't help but wonder how different the game will be from the last one....not very, I wager. I have to say the next-gen consoles (well, except the exclusive Rev cos no-one's even seen that one) get less & less attractive each time I read about them. It's seemingly all big-dick wavery graphics with ****-all by way of innovation.
[color=66ff00]"Gran Turismo 6 - This is the most beautiful piece of **** I've ever played" - PC gamer.
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Project Race Pedant Underground 12: Turismo Gear Rally
"Now with fully functional central locking simulation!"
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Project Race Pedant Underground 12: Turismo Gear Rally
"Now with fully functional central locking simulation!"
[color=66ff00]You may think I'm being patronising but you should patent this idea immediately.
Some idiot CEO of some idiot publishing company's got to be seduced by the possibilities the name paints.
They'll make it right after "Street Fighter 4 - Z X plus embolism induced ultra championship edition" hits the shelves in time for christmas.
I can just see some kid being thrown into a telly by a poorly calibrated peripheral when the breaks kick in.
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New by Ronconator - the gyrochairinator!
(http://www.body-tone.com/pics/office-chair.jpg)
As seen on TV^
The amazing, incredible, fanstasmagorical gyrochair has the ability to simulate vertical movement and even has tilting functions! Experience games in a whole new light as you pivot, twist and flobble to the picture on screen! Spend ludricous amounts of money on a gimmick with only two games - both crap and by Derek Smart - that actually work with it! Vomit and lose control of your bowels with the sheer excitement! Listen as we throw out more superlatives without actual justification!
It's so good, they want to ban it!*
^ in our adverts. Also seen on Watchdog (not the one with that mangy cow Anne Robinson), and Consumer Scam Report
* 8/9/2005 "British Safety Council seeks to ban imports of spinal injury causing chair" (The Times)
EDIT; 14kth pos. W00t and soforth.
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I'm not too worried about the AI drivers in PGR3 based on the fact that the AI in the first two was very good and most of the time extremely hard to beat.
About the Killzone thing, apparently it was not real-time, however, that was the in-game engine. It wasn't real-time because it ran at 5 fps on the dev hardware so they had to speed it up in post-production. Who knows what the final product will look like?
About destructable environments mentioned by someone earlier in the thread, I would advise them to check out the Gears of War footage... Destructable goodness.
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The measure of game AI is not and has never been to be 'hard to beat', though. It's all about being convincing; reacting in the way a real person would be (getting pissed off, innovating, etc). IIRc Gran Turismo in particular always failed at that.
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Well, in Forza Motorsport, the AI actually moves their car to block you or bump you when you try to get around them, that seems pretty human...
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I don't know, maybe I'm the only one for whom AI has always been a non-issue. Programmers spend vast amounts of time scripting the AI to act "human" during the three second between when I see them and when they are a crumpled heap of pixels on the floor. In anything other than vast, outdoor type environments, the basic tactic is "see-shoot" with the occasional roll or dodge to impress the reviewers. There seems to me to be little difference between the best AI and the worst, provided they're not stupid enough to get stuck in walls etc (talking strictly FPS/action-platformers here).
In racing games, it's even more moot. I'm sure there are a thousand little intricacies, but when you're going 150 mph, trying your best to stay on the road, they don't really stick out. An adequately realistic script would be "drive really fast, go around cars/obstacles if necessary", though I admit I don't play too many racers.
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Originally posted by Deepblue
Well, in Forza Motorsport, the AI actually moves their car to block you or bump you when you try to get around them, that seems pretty human...
Ah, but you nudge them on the way past, do they chase after you for revenge? If you tailgate them, do they drive sloppier because of the pressure? Do they 'fake' to send you to the wrong side of the road, etc. And soforth. That sort of AI; it is being done, but it's still at a gimmick stage IMO.
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Well, except for the whole bash for revenge thing, I don't see human players doing that stuff...
@Rictor: AI does make a difference in an FPS game, that's one of the elements of Halo that made it such a great experience. You're just not normally used to the targets actually taking cover and popping out to shoot you as you reload or turn away.
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Halo had AI?
I saw some kind of dancing back and forth that was so predictable it made them easy to hit. of course predictability is the hallmark of Halo, what with everything in the game getting reused about six billion times.
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Originally posted by mikhael
Halo had AI?
I saw some kind of dancing back and forth that was so predictable it made them easy to hit. of course predictability is the hallmark of Halo, what with everything in the game getting reused about six billion times.
Just to prove you wrong I'll make the point that people are still finding new dialogue in Halo 2.
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Originally posted by Deepblue
Just to prove you wrong I'll make the point that people are still finding new dialogue in Halo 2.
Dialogue != AI
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The AI in halo 2 is pretty smart, elites will run behind cover when im trying to gun them down with my turret, and wont come out until i stop firing for a while, and the second i start again, theyre back in, those flying dudes swarm around you, grunts are pretty convincing as the stupid-cannonfoddder they are, Jackals tend to stay in groups to maximize the power of their wrist shields.
I mean, the fact that a marine can drive you around the map in a warthog, or that 2 marines can fully use a warthog on their own, is pretty amazing.
Everytime i try to hide behind some cover, thee enemy will try to blast me out with nades, or sneak up on my ass and start beating on me.
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]They'll make it right after "Street Fighter 4 - Z X plus embolism induced ultra championship edition" hits the shelves in time for christmas.[/color]
The Street Fighter Names have long been a Capcom injoke.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Dialogue != AI