Hard Light Productions Forums
Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: Raven2001 on July 08, 2005, 08:16:20 am
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I've been working on this...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecate1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecate2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecate3.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecate4.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecate5.jpg
What do you think?? Some of those "window" structures are supposed to be LODable subobjects. THe main hull is at 6000 polys, make it about 7000 with the subobjects it already has (I will add some more)
Feedback is always nice :)
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Amasing work man, some high res textures and it will be stunning ingame.
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My problem is, I cant' draw textures... I'd like it to have a single texture, opposed to a lot of tile textures. If someone would be kind enough to help me with that would be nice...
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The only thing I can suggest (besides working on the smoothing) is to add some structure around the main beam turrets. They are huge on the front on the original model, and making them not look like buttons sewn on to the front might make it a little better.
Excellent work though!
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I don't think I will smooth it much more... the Hecate is still a terran ship no matter what, and I want to keep it with a decent polycount (no 10k poly main hulls for me, sorry :( )
I know someone was working on a HTL Hecate, but later dumped it, I would like to take a look at it, for some inspiration. Does anyone know where I can find it??
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Originally posted by Raven2001
I don't think I will smooth it much more... the Hecate is still a terran ship no matter what, and I want to keep it with a decent polycount (no 10k poly main hulls for me, sorry :( )
I know someone was working on a HTL Hecate, but later dumped it, I would like to take a look at it, for some inspiration. Does anyone know where I can find it??
Grim was working on one, but never dumped it.
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[color=66ff00]That's pretty damn great Raven. :nod:
Three thumbs up.
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I think he lost it once, and hasn't had time to work on it much recently. I say keep on this one though and whichever one is first and/or better will be the one that is used.
Originally posted by Raven2001
I don't think I will smooth it much more... the Hecate is still a terran ship no matter what, and I want to keep it with a decent polycount (no 10k poly main hulls for me, sorry :( )
I don't mean oversmooth it, but right now I'm sure you can see the massive smoothing errors all over. Truespace has always been somewhat crap in this regard (and I assume you are still using truespace) so maybe that's the problem. Anyway, I couldn't agree more that this needs hard lines. It just also needs care to ensure that those smoothing errors don't make it into the finished model.
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Originally posted by WeatherOp
Grim was working on one, but never dumped it.
Where can I look at it??
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Originally posted by StratComm
I don't mean oversmooth it, but right now I'm sure you can see the massive smoothing errors all over. Truespace has always been somewhat crap in this regard (and I assume you are still using truespace) so maybe that's the problem. Anyway, I couldn't agree more that this needs hard lines. It just also needs care to ensure that those smoothing errors don't make it into the finished model.
I never used TS for the modeling... I still use blender (hope to be proficient in Max by next year though...)
I rendered it in 3d Exploration, that's why some parts of the smoothing look like crap :P
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One big 2048x2048 texture should do fine.
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Good job :)
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I think it's too smooth, to be honest. It needs to have more straight lines, particularly around the "head" and on the back where the two conning tower things are.
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Neat :) I think the smoothing is good, after all, the Hecate does reflect the blendingof Terran and Vasudan design ethos, does it not?
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Yeah, however Vas design is curvy not spherical/circular.
The shapes are too concave IMHO - it looks too 60'-ish.
It's a good start.
About the poly limit - check out what Omni did with the Deathstar - superdetail boxes allow that kind of massive LODing and massive detail.
It would be awsome to see a capship take advantage of this mind blowing feature.
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The Hecate itself is concave originaly, so I don't want to break it into something different.
Check the links again. I've updated the pics. I've only done some minor geometry corrections, and added the main turrets (just for showing off...)
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Originally posted by Flaser
About the poly limit - check out what Omni did with the Deathstar - superdetail boxes allow that kind of massive LODing and massive detail.
It would be awsome to see a capship take advantage of this mind blowing feature.
Yeah, but how can I do it?? I have some of those details in separate objects, and LODed already, what must I do in the conversion process??
EDIT: I just thought of something: what do you think of adding a space int the model for a nameplate??? If yes, where would you like it??
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Originally posted by Raven2001
I just thought of something: what do you think of adding a space int the model for a nameplate??? If yes, where would you like it??
On the engine pod, above the "wing"
Originally posted by StratComm
I don't mean oversmooth it, but right now I'm sure you can see the massive smoothing errors all over
That was my first thought
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Very nice
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Well that just blew Grimloq's Hecate right out of the water.
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Roxor. :yes:
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Good work as always, Raven. :nod: Definitely a nice upgrade from the original.
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Dang, this is the second time the Hecate changed modelers. I started to work on it a long time ago but ran out of ideas as to what to do to the model. I hope you succeed where we stalled; this ship is looking really nice!
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Looks great Raven :yes:
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Uhh, it's quite nice Raven, but Grim is still very much working - if quietly - on his version. He never dumped it at all, and so far it's looking a thousand times better than the old versions he posted pics of.
Ugh, both models are in far to an advanced state to stop now, but at least they've gone in somewhat different directions. Grim is going for a far more HTL Deimos - style industrial curves and chamfers look.
Please people, check first if the ship you want to build is under development already or not, otherwise this sort of duplication of effort happens. :(
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We have no real organized method to keep track of what models are being worked on and duplication of effort is unavoidable. We have a thread in which people post that they are working on something but it is not updated very often and is commonly overlooked.
So far this has happened to 3 HTL modeling projects:
Nico and WeatherOp both have a Moloch model they are working in. (WeatherOp May have stopped working on his. I haven’t seen any development lately.)
Karma and I both have our own version of the Colossus that we are working on.
And now Grim and Raven are working on their own idea of the Hecate.
In order to prevent this from happening again we would need a much more organized approach to what is being worked on.
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I think it happened with the deimos as well. Karma began work on one before Bob made his.
The tracking system is a good idea - any ideas for a more effective method? One that would be more obvious/accessible than the current thread we have?
If not, people are just going to have to use that thread more i guess. :\
Actually, it doesn't take long at all to update that thread or to check if a ship is already under development, so it's really just a matter of remembering to do so.
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Awesome work you do Raven. If this model will be released in the next version of Media VP or as a stand alone ship, it 'll give to Freespace 2 a new look.
We have the beautiful nebulae, we have new models, new HUD, and now new model (Hercs Mark II, Hecate, etc...).
I expect the ship will be available soon ^^
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I'd rather see people actually finish the HTL models they're working on. Right now there are at least 5 different ships that have had HT&L versions made, but never released (Either in some state of production, or work was stopped on).
I'm not sure if I've seen the other one, but this one is looking pretty good (esp. the gun turrets)
But, someone could start a page in the wiki so people could keep track of who's doing what HT&L model (And where to download finished ones!)
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Wouldn't it be easier just to add "CHECK HERE BEFORE STARTING A HTL MODEL" to the top thread?
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The wiki would let everyone update on their own progress, rather than having one person keep try to keep track of everyone's status. (Although they could also do that with the wiki)
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Originally posted by Vasudan Admiral
I think it happened with the deimos as well. Karma began work on one before Bob made his.
The tracking system is a good idea - any ideas for a more effective method? One that would be more obvious/accessible than the current thread we have?
If not, people are just going to have to use that thread more i guess. :\
Actually, it doesn't take long at all to update that thread or to check if a ship is already under development, so it's really just a matter of remembering to do so.
I remember someone making a good fenris too while I was working on mine (which could have been used for the leviathan IMHO). BTW in my case this happens because I'm slow and work on different things at the same time, this increase the possibility of "model forking".
Anyway, there's nothing wrong in making more versions of the same things, it's called competition, but of course it could be a waste of time and efforts which are already limited in the community.
A simple database of what's going on, like the one on the xwaupgrade site, could be a good solution, or at least a stickyed thread would work too
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http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,29228.0.html
HTL-Status v.2
This thread was already made with the intent of keeping track of whose working on what along with finished releases.
(Actually HTL non-canon models could be included in their own section, like the Raa's Killercraft or Nico's Ezekiel)
Having 2 finished models is still better than none - and I don't think that having competition / different implementation would hinder progress.
Quite the contrary IMHO.
Even if we have 2 models, a good mission designer can still use them both:
"Ladies and Gentleman on the left, you see the original Hecate variant built in the Polaris shipyards.
After the NTF took over the system; production was transfered to Deneb. The difference in the shipyard facilities and building methods resulted in a vastly different ship at glance.
However their internal systems are identical, the fusion plant and engine built in Vasuda, the beam systems in Beta Aquale - cosmetics aside the ships have the same capabilities."
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lol, i guess that's possible. One could be used as a more modern version or something.
Either way tho, it'd have been better to have two separate HTLed ships as opposed to two variants on the one. HTLing takes a lot of time effort.
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I mayself am working on improving hte stock Hecate model by adding a lot of detail. How far I will go, I have no idea yet, nor do I have plans for making new textures or anything, so i prolyl guess, it wouldn't count as HT&L...
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Originally posted by WMCoolmon
I'd rather see people actually finish the HTL models they're working on.
I intend to get the model finished soon enough, as for the texturing and conversion part, that is another matter, but I assure you that the mesh and subobjects will be finished by the end of the month. You have my word on it :)
I'd really like to see some pics of Grims version (searched over his thread, but all I can see are the red X's...)
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You made ths ship i used to hate beautifull.
Awesome.
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I never hated it, m'self.. more like never got attached to it like the Orion. Why'd you hate it, FC?
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Well, i just thaught it was ugly, especialy that horrible brown texture, and also mabye the fact that it tries to replace the orion wich IMO is the coolest ship design ever. Also other things of weirdness about it, how it looks like it belongs in an atmosphere, how it's biggest looking guns are AAA, though in retrospect the long range flak thing is preety cool. Ok, mabye i didnt hate it, but out of all of the fs capships, it was my least liked design-wise.
It's most of a first impression kinda thing, the first time we get a good look at one is in a nebula, where you can only see limited sections at a time, and therefore it looks ugly.
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Ok ladies, this is how the main hull is right now. it is about 6000 polys and I don't think I'll change it much more. Some geometry fixes and that's it I think... unless of course I remember of something uber cool :D
Oh and yes, the wing structures are LODed sub objects, that's why they aren't shown here.
And please don't start yelling at me for that round structure in the front part of the engine pods... I guesss they look ugly for now, but with I am thinking to do to that part in terms of sub objects, *think* it will look good... We'll see :)
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecate10.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecate9.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecate8.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecate7.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecate6.jpg
I'm going on vacation this week, so don't expect any updated until next week
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Cool, are the windows on the "bridge towers" going to be seperate subobjects too?
Is it possible to have mmore than two subobject LOD's? i know this was the case, but i think bob might have changed it.
I'm glad the sublod feature is realy starting to get used.
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You removed the wings? That's blasphemy!
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They're subobjects - they're not shown in the image :)
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Yeah, i can jsut hope that they can have more than two lods, even then, two would be plenty enough i suppoose.
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Oh my God dude, I love that.
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Make the front side pods subobjects too! :p
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sweeet, the hecate never looked so good
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Originally posted by FireCrack
Cool, are the windows on the "bridge towers" going to be seperate subobjects too?
Nop, they are part of the main mesh
Originally posted by FireCrack
Is it possible to have mmore than two subobject LOD's? i know this was the case, but i think bob might have changed it.
I hope he has changed it, because most of the subobjects have three different LODs, and one of them is supposed to not be seen from a certain distance, making that 4 LODs I think.
So, if it isn't yet changed, PLEASE BOB make the engine support more than 2 LODs per sub object!!!
Riiiiiiight, I said that you shouldn't see any updates untill next week... guess what? I lied :D
I took the trouble of adding all the sub objects (excluding turrets) to the main hull, just to show it to you, so there you go :)
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecate11.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecate12.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecate13.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecate14.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecate15.jpg
Just have to fix the geometry a bit in some of those subobjects, find any geometry error on everything, make all the LODs for the sub objects, and that's it...
Is anyone willing to draw the textures for this baby?? I can make a UV map template, no prob with that. If anyone has the time and skill for it, contact me through PM
See ya all next week (for real this time)
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:jaw: Dear God, I'm loving this ship.
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whoa.
If you can't finish it for whatever reason, release it as a WIP and let someone else finish the job. I hate seeing superb HTL ships just fall into obscurity because the modeller decided to start collecting stamps or tile bricks and never releases his WIPs.
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I can't tell from the shots so far, but are you gonna include any kind of a more substantial fighterbay. I think you'll agree, the fighterbay on the original model was less than half-assed.
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Originally posted by Janos
If you can't finish it for whatever reason, release it as a WIP and let someone else finish the job. I hate seeing superb HTL ships just fall into obscurity because the modeller decided to start collecting stamps or tile bricks and never releases his WIPs.
Nope, the idea is someone helping me finish it... I don't like to release unfinished stuff, sorry...
And no, I won't colect stamps :D
Originally posted by Trivial Psychic
I can't tell from the shots so far, but are you gonna include any kind of a more substantial fighterbay.
Explain "more substantial"... I have to confess that haven't put much work (if any) on the fighterbays, so I'm open to suggestions
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The original models fighterbay was just a triangular tube going into the ship, make it a nice wide square thing or somthing.
By the way, every time i see your model i cant help but think that the four "bobbles" in the middle should be missile launchers.
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:jaw:
That is beautiful, Raven. I take back anything negative I said before. I love the deck detail on the underside. I'd like to suggest putting a bit more of that on it, perhaps around the "neck" and the parts that aren't the heavy armour plates.
As for the fighterbay, I'd suggest making a hangar, with launch rails and gantries and the like.
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I'm back :)
Well, for the fighterbay, I already done what FireCrack suggested, but I will only make launch rails and gantries as LODs for the interior...
As for the bobbles looking like torpedo launchers... welll, I hope that if this model gets textured, it will fix that... they are supposed to be the docking points...
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:jaw:
That is truely amazing...
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Updates?
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Be a bit patient! I'm almost done with it... I have been making the lods for the subobjects, so nothing worth showing yet.
Also, I'm working a bit on the main hull to save polys and I'm remodelling it a bit. Simple stuff.
I wager I'll be done with the mesh in 3/4 days max.
Now, here comes the hard part: I'm not going to release an unfinished ship, so for now, I need someone who can UV map my baby, and someone who can draw textures (copy\paste the tile textures to the UV template, fix any drawing errors, and maybe draw a bit).
The idea is to make 1 or 2 big textures for the whole model, so that it is HTL friendly...
If anyone is willing to help me, please send me a PM.
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While you're UV mapping it, you should use the opportunity to make some new textures, imo - the Hecate is a messy mass of tiled, nasty textures.
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That's what I meant by "fix any drawing errors". I like the texture disposition on the Hecate, but it has many a mess... Whit a single UV template, the texturer should copy/paste the tiles, and then draw a bit to make the ship look less messed up :)
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Two pics of the main hull. It's a bit less than 6000 polys
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecate18.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecate19.jpg
I will add a bit more detail to the front part and this part is more than finished :)
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THese 3 show the ship with all the subobjects excluding the turrets
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecate20.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecate21.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecate22.jpg
I'm almost done with the LODs... then I only have to make the debris and its done
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Ok, some work done on the front part of the main hull.
I just have some doubts about what is shown in the pic below...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecate23.jpg
Notice the part where the main beams are mounted?? What do you think???
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It's hard to judge how that will look with the beams.
If one beam is on the raised area and another in the recess yes,
If both beams are in the recessed area i say no.
But that's just my opinion.
I might volenteer for the UV mapping and Texturing stuff, but first i want to finish my own model.
Actualy, on second though they might ook good either-or way...
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moddel in a few of those brick style armor plates
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I agree, start modeling in some of the hull plating, and have it match up with how the textures will be UV mapped.
This ship looks nice and sleek. Which my main complaint about Bobb's HTL Deimos is that its turned a design that is said to be sleek into a box with jagged edges. (especially the bottom)
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Basicaly, you are telling me to make the same kind of detail I made in the rear section, right??
That will take a while bit, because I have very few polys to spare now... I'll see if I have anything done by tomorrow :)
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[color=66ff00]You might actually make me like that ship design if you keep this up. :D
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Im loving the look of his hecate!! On a not not so related note, I was wondering if you were going to take a second look at the calypso she was purddy!
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Ok, I'm REALLY almost done with it:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecate24.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecate25.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecate26.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecate27.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecate28.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecate29.jpg
Notice the 4 barreled turrets?? those are supposed to be flak guns. Also, I've added some detail to the front section, but not too much (careful with the polys). This is final for what you see (maybe except the beam turrets...).
The polycounts:
main hull (without the "wings"): 6000
main hull with all LODable subobjects on maximum detail (except turrets): 10000
fully LODed and turreted (again maximum detail) 20000
I just have to make the LODs for the 2 barreled turrets, model the debris and model\lod some sort of rotating missile turrets to be placed in the lower section of the main engines... and then it will be ready for UV mapping\texturing :)
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Originally posted by Sheepy
I was wondering if you were going to take a second look at the calypso she was purddy!
Uh?? What are you talking about??
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Okay, whenever you get the mapping done, I'm definitely getting this Hecate. It looks so totally awesome.
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The model is completely finished :)
Tomorrow I'll post pics of all the sub objects (including their lods)
Now I just have to wait for a texture artist/UV mapper :D
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OMG it looks great. :eek2:
I'm really impressed..
I'd texture it, but I already got texture job for a HTL model. A very hard job, which will take some time.
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Well, if you define "some time" I'm willing to know if I want to wait or not, given what I've seen from you so far :)
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As promised:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/turret2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/4barrelturret.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecatewing.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecatedock.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecatedetail5.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecatedetail4.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecatedetail3.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecatedetail2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/sb38R2/Hecatedetail1.jpg
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That quad turret is very cool, particularly the middle one. :yes:
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Will this model be equipped with any destroyable, non-targettable, sub-objects?
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*Never noticed any turrets on the wings*
Did you add those?
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There are wing-mounted turrets in the cutscenes that seem to have been dropped ingame...
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Well, made smaller atleast.
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still need to model the chuncks on it's face
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like this
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Originally posted by WMCoolmon
*Never noticed any turrets on the wings*
Did you add those?
Originally posted by ngtm1r
There are wing-mounted turrets in the cutscenes that seem to have been dropped ingame...
http://www.thewolfdog.com/wingturret.jpg
Still there, it's a beam turret though.....
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AWSOME
:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: 5 thumbs up from our resident Shivans
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Originally posted by Bobboau
still need to model the chuncks on it's face
I won't do that, because:
1) The poly count is already too high
2) Texture maps can simulate that pretty well
3) I still have faith that you will implement bump mapping to SCP (hint hint) :D
Will this model be equipped with any destroyable, non-targettable, sub-objects?
nop, sorry...
There are wing-mounted turrets in the cutscenes that seem to have been dropped ingame...
Well, the turrets are still there, but Wolfdog is partially right: the the turrets in the upper side of the wings are beams, but the ones in the bottom are flak :)
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bump mapping can't simulate the ability to fly through the ridges created by the chuncks
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I know, but like I said, the poly count is already too high
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You're kidding, right ?
Someone show Raven Omni's BSG,
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Not everyone has a mean machine at hoime you know.
and what about mission where more than one of those high-poly ship. What if I have a mission where 3 or 4 of these monsters (or more) appear.
No one wants a slidshow. Good models, yes. Unnecessary polys, no.
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Actually, at one stage i managed to put 30 high poly tritons into one mission - which adds up to 179 070 polys visible at one point in time, and 510 thruster glowpoints all visible to the player. The triton also uses a 2048x2048 res texture, along with 1024 res glowmaps and shinemaps - each.
All the recent FSO builds managed to average 80-90 FPS. Even with particle damage effects all over the place. My machine back then wasn't hugely powerful either - 2.4Ghz, 512 ram and a R9800pro.
As far as i can tell, multiple itterations of a ship on screen will not really adversely affect framerates. ;) Besides, how often will someone be using more than two Hecates in one mission anyway? :)
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Hmm..I dunno..
I personally have a Athlon 1900, 1GB DDR anda GForce 4 Ti 4200 (64MB) and with everything turned on I do experience slowdowns..so I cut the tga/jpg, 32 bit textures and shinemapping.
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I don't think the face bumps would cause much slowdown at all. They also make the model look a lot more like the Hecate (IMHO).
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Make them sub-objects opnly shown at short distances.
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I cut the tga/jpg, 32 bit textures and shinemapping
That's a known slowdown - have you tried it with just the tga/jpg, shine and glow settings on in a recent build? If you've got a gig of ram it should run decently. (tho your card is a bit on the old side. :\ )
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No... and that's final.
Sorry about that render lovers, but as a game modder, one must have a sense that not everyone has ubber machines, and I do try to please everyone. I'll keep it as it is because:
1) It is about time it gets textured
2) It already has a bit enough polys to be viable in most situations (low or high end machines, model crowded missions, etc...)
3) I have little time, and I want to focus on the Ravana
Sorry guys
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Just add the parts. We're talking only 100 more polygons at the most.
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he can do whatever he wants, if he doesn't do it someone else can modify it after he releases it.