Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: aldo_14 on July 18, 2005, 04:51:19 pm
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http://info.ea.com/news/pr/pr651.htm
Hmm.... another blow for developer independence, eh?
EDIT; I'm wondering if they'll slap Coca Cola billboards around City 17 and have a named 'EA Trax' soundtrack with all the best amero-punk ****e, now. Presumably Freeman will switch to branded ray ban sunglasses as well.
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Not all that EA puts out is ****, nor loaded with commercial ****. ie battlefield 2 :nod:
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AGGAHhhhh!
Part of me just died inside...
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Originally posted by redmenace
Not all that EA puts out is ****, nor loaded with commercial ****. ie battlefield 2 :nod:
On the other hand, look at what they did to Burnout after buying Critereon.
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I wont even play Burnout 3 anymore. I got disgusted after they defaced the hell out of it like that. The UI was not only EAish, but it was also idiotic. It seemed to be geared more toward NFS:U than the Burnout franchise, which had an awesome interface, great scenery, and an outstanding soundtrack. Too bad EA came along and dumbified the interface, obstructed the scenery with billboards of their own game, and replaced the soundtrack with EA Trax garbage. Burnout 2 is my favorite burnout now, but I wish it didnt have to be that way :(.
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Ahh EA is taking over!!!
First they ruined maxis, then westwood and now Valve. What is this world coming to!?!?!?!
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Hopefully they won't have Steam anymore. I don't really care - Half Life couldn't get much worse, imo. A buggy, bloated piece of software, everyone loved it because it had good physics, graphics, and continued the Half Life storyline. Once you get past that, it's really not much.
Anyway, but yea, poo to EA. Sucks that tehy're taking everything over.
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As long as sierra is still around i wont shoot myself.
However i liked the music in burnout 3, so you can kiss my white amero-ass.
Edit :: And another thing, who the hell cares? Half-Life 2 sucked balls, or the core game did... and personaly, i think theyre both bloated pompous *******s so its a match made in heaven.
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so, how long until the anti-trust suits are gonna coil itself around EA?...
i mean, Microsoft's a better publisher than EA, and that's saying a heap, at least Microsoft so far hasn't released rehashed sequels that don't improve on the overall game itself (see the multitude of EA sports games)
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...I've never played Half Life 2:nervous:
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Yeah. Instead they ruined the Mech Warrior series.
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I never bothered buying it because I dont want to pay $50 for a piece of **** game
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Originally posted by MatthewPapa
I never bothered buying it because I dont want to pay $50 for a piece of **** game
there's no great substance to HL2, so you're better off
as for microsoft ruining the mechwarrior games?....i'm disinclined to say it was all microsoft's fault, Msoft's the publisher, it's pretty much up to the developer to make a good game in the time-frame involved, look at Lucasarts, they're a ****ty publisher to work under with their unrealistic time-frame (kotor 2 was made in 12 months, due to lucasart's wanting a time schedule).
however, if you're referring to ther mechassault games.. they're a different kettle of fish altogether, since it's all set in the Battletech universe (read: PnP/Tabletop) it doesn't make any difference about which dev makes a better game, besides, one game series against EA's track record.. Microsoft's got a long ways to go to match the devilry of Electronic arts, really.
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There is alot of substance to HL2. The story keeps moving throughout the game, and alot of neat stuff is going on in the background. The characters are interesting and the graphics are a lot better than Doom 3. There is also a lot of feeling in it. it's not just mindless empty as much ammo into the bad guys as possible. It is definitely worth picking up.
BTW this is just my opinion. don't start a debate over it or anything. the experience will be different for different people. you can argue against my points, but those arguments will only be true for you and not for me, so there is no point.
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Originally posted by Carl
There is alot of substance to HL2. The story keeps moving throughout the game, and alot of neat stuff is going on in the background.
i meant by lack of substance as there didn't seem to be a flow in the story, it was kind of vague on details, i know you prolly had to -look- for it amongst various bits and pieces and find out for yourself, i also should note that albiet nice use of physics and all, the driving portions of the game were a bit annoying to say the least..
Originally posted by Carl
The characters are interesting and the graphics are a lot better than Doom 3. There is also a lot of feeling in it. it's not just mindless empty as much ammo into the bad guys as possible. It is definitely worth picking up.
i'll give you that, there is some -depth- to the game, the graphics engine is top notch, if a little underused in some circumstances..
physics, top notch, but nothing we haven't seen before, thanks to Havok.
Originally posted by Carl
BTW this is just my opinion. don't start a debate over it or anything. the experience will be different for different people. you can argue against my points, but those arguments will only be true for you and not for me, so there is no point.
fair cop, just don't get me started on pariah.. ;)
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EA games is teh roxxors, they made the first *almost* real FPS!
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Originally posted by Cobra
EA games is teh roxxors, they made the first *almost* real FPS!
actually, atari made the first series of FPS's.. (see star raider and battlezone)
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no, i'm talking about actual FPS', not those low-poly triangle games made for the atari/commodore computers.
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[color=66ff00]HL2: The facts.
1. Half Life 2 is the first piece of mass marketed DRM (digital rights management). This DRM comes in the form of 'Steam' which has been proven to not only make the game run slower (compared to cracked versions of HL2 without Steam) but it will also stop you from legitimately using the game you purchased on more than one computer on a home LAN. Want to play head to head? Buy two copies. The first game let you use one CD key on up to five computers.
2. It is possible, at any time, that Valve will render your CD key invalid.
Key-generators for HL2 exist and see widespread use, john doe comes along and downloads a cracked copy of HL2, he runs a key-generator to create a key for him and then authenticates that key with Valve. Some time later you walk into a games store and pick up a copy of HL2 "game of the year", "game of the century", "you suck unless you buy this" (it depends on what magazine you read). You go home and install your new game and then try to authenticate the key with Valve. Guess what happens. No amount of contacting tech. support will help you as Valve doesn't want to know.
3. If you've already bought the original Half life and have it installed on your machine, Steam assimilates it into its library. Now every time you want to play HL you have to run the resource intensive and bug filled Steam. You don't get to choose if it does this.
4. You will not be able to legally sell your copy of HL2 at some later date. The only benefit of this as far as I can see is that HL2 will therefore not enjoy the same usage as other retro games as you won't be able to play a legitimate copy of the game a few years from now.
5. Counterstrike; a game that has seen many incremental upgrades was ported for use in the new HL2 engine 'source'. At around version 1.5 many people considered it to be an excellent game based on it's good response and feature balancing. The ported version broke quite a lot of this and was forced on the players despite having serious bugs, being unfinished and having gameplay problems.
6. If at any time Valve decide to no longer support the game, you will not be able to play it legitimately.
HL2: My opinion.
The game is a lacklustre, often boring rehash of the original. It does nothing to forward the storyline except in the most flimsy of ways and carries no suspense, little excitement other than the obligitory 'avoid being shot' and not enough character interaction to actually make you care about the people helping Gordon. The new vehicles are nowhere near as much fun as driving a warthog in Halo and only seem to serve as an attempt to vary the gameplay. The end part of the game instead of engaging your mind, pits you against hordes of carbon copy badguys with guns.
I pre-ordered HL2 when the extent of the crippling DRM was not known, Valve never fully explained how much time and trouble was required to install the game. Had this been known I would not have bought the game. If you buy HL2 or any game like it you are not only supporting DRM, you are sending the companies who use DRM a message: We will buy the media you sell us despite the fact that you're dictating how we use it. If you don't understand why I'm so appalled by this or don't fully understand what DRM is then take a look at this: Link (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Rights_Management)
Remember; If you buy a car you can do almost anything you like to it, if you buy something that has DRM, you cant.
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Steam+EA=On Earth as it is in Hell
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Originally posted by Krackers87
However i liked the music in burnout 3, so you can kiss my white amero-ass.
Me too.
Never knew what all the fuss around HL was about anyway.
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Face it - FarCry rulz!!!!1122
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In HL3 Freeman will wake up and the G Man will tell him to challenge everything.
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I enjoyed Burnout 3 to be honest, and tracks like Orpheus by Ash made the music quite enjoyable. That said - with music there are always going to be people who're disappointed.
I will say though, that EAs insistance on plastering their games with sign boards for their other games is quite irritating. I want to play a game with atmosphere, not a walking advertisment.
Kinda curious though, this whole EA / HL / Publisher thing. EA does realise that Valves Steam system totally goes around the publisher, right? I don't see Valve budging on that, but I don't see EA being happy to role over and let one of the biggest game names of all time use them as a publisher then avoid the publishing costs with Steam.
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I agree with Maeg on the DRM part, I only played HL2 because I won it in a lottery on these boards (thanks Xelion). the game itsself was pretty good, even though character interaction should've been more pronounced.
DRM like Steam should be illegal, because it really harms your rights as a buyer.
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Rights as a buyer? Did you read the EULA? You signed your life and everything you own away to Valve with the simple click of I Accept. They own the rights to your soul now.. thats how they get away with DRM.
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Originally posted by DeepSpace9er
Rights as a buyer? Did you read the EULA? You signed your life and everything you own away to Valve with the simple click of I Accept. They own the rights to your soul now.. thats how they get away with DRM.
[color=66ff00]EULA's have never stood up in court IIRC, in fact I seem to remember someone in the higher echelons of the law system claiming that they could be illegal.
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Point of EULAs, I reckon, is that your bog-standard gamesplayer can't afford to hire a fancy pants lawyer to challenge them in court (nor even a simple hyperchicken from a backwood asteroid)
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Originally posted by aldo_14
challenge them in court
EA would encourage you to do that.
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Originally posted by IPAndrews
EA would encourage you to do that.
:lol:
*Don's Hippy clothes*
Down the corporations!
Death to EA!
:nervous:
IMO HL2 was very medicore. Just another run of the mill fps with some extra features. There is no real story, just weird crap happening around you.
I play / ed Halo2 much more times than HL2... >.>
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HL2 was brilliant, although I may differ with the writers from a creative point of view.
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It was a brilliant execution of tired old innovations. It looked pretty and it had a nice polish on it, but what would you say it really did...?
Moving vehicles... we've been there. Physics... we've been there. Graphically it stood strong, but graphics alone do not a game make.
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Originally posted by redmenace
Not all that EA puts out is ****, nor loaded with commercial ****. ie battlefield 2 :nod:
which is made by a swedish company whos stockholder told ea to go to hell when they wanted to buy the company from them.
oh, and I actually like burnout 3 quite a lot. :)
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The sad thing is if everyone had simply said no to HL2 when it came out it would have been released 2-3 months later max without steam.
Instead the weaker minded individuals went out and bought it because they didn't realise that HL had to sell or Valve would be going down the tubes with it.
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I never realised how bad Steam was, and I deeply regret not returning the game within the statutory grace period. Primarily, I expected to be able to uninstall Steam after registering the game.
Stupid me.
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[color=66ff00]I'd have to dispute the reasoning a bit kara, Valve never made the extent of HL2's crippling apparent, the court case brought up against them in europe is indicitive of this. Basically they never made it clear on the box or the requirements that an internet connection was necessary in order to play the game.
They fudged the facts to make people buy.
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I'm not saying that everyone was weak minded but there were a hell of a lot of people who had heard that Steam was bad and STILL went out and bought the game without checking how bad.
After the first few days, sales of Half Life should have ground to a halt once everyone realised how bad Steam was. Yet I still see people defending it. If everyone had simply taken their copies back to the shop this debate would be over.
In fact it probably would have made worldwide news and discouraged anyone else from trying it.
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I assume I'll never play HL2, listening to you all. Bah, who care, if I want to buy a FPS some day, it'll be doom3, not HL2.
Did they ever release a demo or something, anyway?
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Yes (for both Doom 3 and HL2).
The HL2 demo required Steam; AFAIK it was only released at the request of ATI, presumably as their licensing deal was ****ed over by the mammoth delay to the game.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
The HL2 demo required Steam
:lol:
They can kiss my ass :p
So, I find it a good news Valve teams with EA, no? They may suck each other's blood out.
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Originally posted by Kalfireth
It was a brilliant execution of tired old innovations. It looked pretty and it had a nice polish on it, but what would you say it really did...?
Moving vehicles... we've been there. Physics... we've been there. Graphically it stood strong, but graphics alone do not a game make.
Has the mainstream audience been there? The non-hardcore folk who just buy a game and couldn't tell you a polygon from a PCI slot.
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Originally posted by vyper
Has the mainstream audience been there? The non-hardcore folk who just buy a game and couldn't tell you a polygon from a PCI slot.
If not, then really, it's their own damn fault.
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Originally posted by vyper
Has the mainstream audience been there? The non-hardcore folk who just buy a game and couldn't tell you a polygon from a PCI slot.
Yep. I can't think of a single HL2 feature that wasn't already present in some other released game; physics/graphics in Far Cry, vehicles in FPS' since Goldeneye (and before; that's the earliest that comes to mind for me, though, not being a PC player at that time period). Dsytopian future is a cliche since Bladerunner, zombies since Res Evil 1 (and before; not sure what the first FPS to have them would be, but Return to Wolfenstein had zombie-things for one)
The Gravity gun was probably the most innovative thing, but even then it amounted to another way to chuck things. Oddly enough, offhand I can't remember too many times when the 'natural' physics (as opposed to setpieces) actually were valuable in playing, anyways.
I was impressed by HL2 when I first played it, but over time I've grown to dislike it; it's repetitive, short on variety (of enemies and weapons in particular), and the storyline (not the setting; that's actually one of the best I've seen, but it doesn't impact as much without context IMO) breaks the classic rule of rewarding the player for playing; my expectation is that any answers eventually given in sequels will ultimately be fairly bog-standard and disappointing.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
zombies since Res Evil 1 (and before; not sure what the first FPS to have them would be, but Return to Wolfenstein had zombie-things for one)
FPS? Well, Shadowcaster (made by Raven, using wolfeinstein 3D engine, so, something like the second or third FPS ever). And I wonder if Spear of Destiny (wolf3D retail) did not have zombies, actually.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
short on variety (of enemies and weapons in particular)
see, now i don't see why people keep on saying that. there are more different types of enemies in HL2 than in HL. Are people grouping the C.P.s, Overwatch, and Elite Overwatch into one bad guy?
And with the gravity gun, everything is a weapon.
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Originally posted by Carl
see, now i don't see why people keep on saying that. there are more different types of enemies in HL2 than in HL. Are people grouping the C.P.s, Overwatch, and Elite Overwatch into one bad guy?
And with the gravity gun, everything is a weapon.
CPs, Overwatch and Elite virtually are the same enemy. Nearly identical weapons, human, and the same basic appearance (face with gasmask).
In total, there's 13 enemies (http://www.planethalflife.com/half-life2/enemies/) I'm excluding the mines there & counting the 2 OW types seperately. Headcrabs are much of a muchness, so I'm counting them also as one.
So... the chopper isn't massively different from the (admittedly cool) gunship. The scanners are totally pointless. The manhacks are the same after you get the GG. And the barnacle is the same as the mines.
The zombies have variation, but it's still upon the same theme. The antlions are by far the most interesting. Striders could have been cool, but they're barely used; only at one bit IIRc can you actually get under and about them.
In terms of gameplay, IMO there's only 4 different enemies - flying big things that you destroy with rockets (and also the strider; you never really take on an APC, although I guess that'd count), things that rush you (crabs, fast zombies & lions), ones that amble towards you and attack melee (zombies), and ones that stand and shoot at you (combine).
And I, as an aside, found the weapons uninspired & weedy. None really felt powerful or satisfying in the same way as in other games (such as the P90 in Far Cry or most of the Call of Duty weapons)
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I would have to agree that Half Life 2 wasn't that great....I am however happy that VUG is losing Valve, and half of their revinue (the other half from blizzard). I have a long-standing grudge against VUG for ruining the Tribes games...:mad2:
Tribes 2 > All other FPS
*Prepares to be brutally maimed and tortured*:nervous:
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Steam's good in concept, but the execution was completely off, for example, neat little menu that allows you to connect and chat with other users of the game, deathmatch them, etc ,etc, not to mention patching..
however, the -REQUIREMENT- that you have to have the internet in order to play the game, hell, even install it.. is stupid. nice idea to go above the heads of publishers, but, the 'net to play requirement has clearly earnt the ire of many a gamer.
i actually bought the HL2 CD's under the impression that i'd bypass steam to a degree, much to my dismay, this was not the case.
that said, things like blizzard's autoupdate, and bioware's update software win against things like steam, simply because you do not require the internet to play the game out of the box..
HL2, wasn't "playable" right out of the box, you still had to go through a lot of bull**** in order to simply play the damn thing.
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Originally posted by vyper
Has the mainstream audience been there? The non-hardcore folk who just buy a game and couldn't tell you a polygon from a PCI slot.
Although the answer to that has already been tackled by others, I would like to raise this point:
Should we really applaud developers for catering to the lowest common denominator? For the masses? Taking the same old formula, rehashing it and then spitting it out with a glossy new pixel shader just shouldn't cut it. It'd be similar to saying that something based on Eastenders, Big Brother or some other bland yet successful product is a good idea.
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There's a funny trend with Half Life 2 that I'm noticing - when the game first came out, pretty much the entire gaming and publishing community was 10000% behind it. However, as time progresses, more and more people are coming to dislike this game and Valve's pompous attitude towards it's consumers - showed in how they chose to distrubite it.
But here's the thing - now that everyone has Steam and has tried it, when Half Life 3 comes out, hardly anyone's gonna want to go through that mess. Either Valve will fix the problems people had with Half Life 2, or people will start to not buy it. Valve, in planning a sequel, has sealed their fate, because now the consumers are informed. The only reason that people bought Half Life 2 was because, as stated before, no one knew what it'd be like. On top of that, it was a continuation of Half Life, and it was something "new" - or at least it seemed like it. Sort of how a movie looks cool the first time, then the second time it's just dumb. Now that people know what everything's really like, they won't be so blindly faithful to Valve. In truth, I think only the die-hard Half Life fans, or the people with Steam still on their computer, will actually buy Half Life 3 if it includes Steam.
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Originally posted by Divine Wind
I would have to agree that Half Life 2 wasn't that great....I am however happy that VUG is losing Valve, and half of their revinue (the other half from blizzard). I have a long-standing grudge against VUG for ruining the Tribes games...:mad2:
Tribes 2 > All other FPS
*Prepares to be brutally maimed and tortured*:nervous:
Tribes 2 was indeed great. I refused to buy vengeance however after reading the reviews, and shall refuse to buy HL3 after having to go through that crap fest of a game.
and its rather sad dynamix is no more.
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Well I luv'd HL2 and whenever I want to play it now I do so offline. :P
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EA to be new Half Life publisher
=(
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yea, RIP Dynamix....I'm glad i didnt get Tribes Vengeance, since it was a complete pile of....you know. I played the Demo for 5 minutes and knew the game was bad. HL2 on the other hand, I thought (along with probably 999999 other people) that the good graphics and hype about it meant it would be good...and i was terribly mistaken
HL2 merely disguises its gameplay failings with the graphics...and as much as I hate VUG, I doubt EA will make any improvements. Still, it is a good day for VUG haters everywhere..
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Well I dislike VUG because they cancelled B5:ITF when they consumed sierra :mad:
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Originally posted by Sigma957
Well I dislike VUG because they cancelled B5:ITF when they consumed sierra :mad:
we'll still have IFH, and TBP, so it's not -that- bad.. they're free!
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Originally posted by Unknown Target
There's a funny trend with Half Life 2 that I'm noticing - when the game first came out, pretty much the entire gaming and publishing community was 10000% behind it.
| wasn't. I knew what a load of sh*te Steam was and I complained about it several times. There were quite a few people pointing out the flaws in game due to Steam but not many people wanted to listen unfortunately.
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Originally posted by Turnsky
we'll still have IFH, and TBP, so it's not -that- bad.. they're free!
[color=66ff00]Another thing about an 'official' B5 game is that the owner would probably clamp down on mods, J.M.S. on the other hand seems quite happy to have people promote his work.
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Originally posted by Nico
FPS? Well, Shadowcaster (made by Raven, using wolfeinstein 3D engine, so, something like the second or third FPS ever). And I wonder if Spear of Destiny (wolf3D retail) did not have zombies, actually.
The original Wolfenstein had zombies in the later episodes. I remember them well.
And I fart in the general direction of those who whine about Tribes: Vengence. I fell in love with the demo. This was what I had always envisioned classic sci-fi mecha combat as being like. Five minutes in and I was already envisioning a Starship Troopers (the book, or maybe the game) or Robotech mod. The MechWarrior series matched its own reality, but Battlecry should have felt like T:V did.
Perhaps the gameplay is integral to the series and nothing changed. I don't really care. I never bought the previous versions because I never buy online-only games. Navyfield, when it goes retail, will probably be the only exception.
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]Another thing about an 'official' B5 game is that the owner would probably clamp down on mods, J.M.S. on the other hand seems quite happy to have people promote his work.
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Pity we can't get an official reccomendation from the man himself then :D
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Originally posted by karajorma
Pity we can't get an official reccomendation from the man himself then :D
that would rock beyond belief, somebody email him some SCP screenies of it! ;)
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Problem is what if he doesn't take kindly to it.
AFAIK the B5 model on Sheridan's desk was actually a model that some company had made and sold without a licence. When it was seized it ended up being used in the show as a prop.
Now admittedly in that case they were trying to sell and unlicensed product but I certainly wouldn't want to send JMS a pic TBP in action only to get a cease and desist in return.
What we need to do is to subtly get his view on mods and fan based projects first :)
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"Mister JMS, we have the project of porting your beloved universe to the Wing Commander engine ( you don't want him to find HLP right away, no? :p), etc etc".
No need to be subtle, it's the net.
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Originally posted by IPAndrews
In HL3 Freeman will wake up and the G Man will tell him to challenge everything.
lol