Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rictor on July 23, 2005, 04:34:33 pm
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I'm entitled to my obligatory minimum of inane threads, so my question is this: which city should/will eventually be named as the world capital. At some point, humanity will unite (centralize power) to the point that the single capital city will become appropriate (such as Brussels is to the EU). Needless to say, this city will likely be highly significant, and would have to cater to most of humanity's ideas of identity, or whoever happens to have the most clout at the time.
I say Jerusalem, due to it's significance to the three Abrahamic religions. Sure, Hindus and Buddhitst (India and China) are growing in power and would potentially object, but I can't think of any better choice, other than an entirely new city. Besides, Chinese are more nationalist than religious, thanks to the 50+ years of communist rule.
Probable choices would likely be New York (headquarters of the UN), Geneva (vaguely associated with international law, and Switzerland has always been neutral.) Other, less likely choices would be maybe Bahgdad (Babylon) or somewhere in Africa (birthplace of mankind). I don't know, think of something.
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>>; I say we make a colony city on the Moon and have that as the capital.
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Canberra. :nervous: I expect Australia to rise up and conquer mankind anyways...
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The day Humanity will unite is the day there's no religion anymore, so taht wouldn't be a factor for a world capital.
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I never said religion specifically. I said "identity"; that could be national, religious, economic or whatever.
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I vote for San Diego, California. Beautiful, inviting climate.
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Originally posted by Ford Prefect
I vote for San Diego, California. Beautiful, inviting climate.
Until it falls into the ocean...
My thoughts, Bejing
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Space platform 103ASJ15b
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Location Formerly Known as Carthage
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I say calculate the center of the earth land hemisphere (the part with mostly land) and if there's a city tehrte, it should be the capitel (after all - it's in the center). If there isn't one, then build it!
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Originally posted by Nico
The day Humanity will unite is the day there's no religion anymore, so taht wouldn't be a factor for a world capital.
I dunno, countries manage to stay together despite different creeds. Well, some of them.
I'd say Geneva, due to its historic neutrality.
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the ancient Greeks considered Delphi the center of the world. That would be a good one, though only significant to those who identify with the ancient Greeks (potentially most or all of the West, but that's still limited).
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Originally posted by TrashMan
I say calculate the center of the earth land hemisphere (the part with mostly land) and if there's a city tehrte, it should be the capitel (after all - it's in the center). If there isn't one, then build it!
0lat 0lon is in the middle of the atlantic
anyway i say atlantis wins
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I'd say somewhere in Macedonia, Mongolia or England. They can all lay the most claim to having done it previously :D
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I think it'd most likely be New York.
Given the choice, probably Sydney, Paris, Rome or Athens.
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You could just, you know put it to a vote, but by that time China+India would likely have over 3 billion people and they could just make a deal amongst themselves.
By the way, what was it in Babylon 5? Geneva, right?
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Originally posted by Rictor
I never said religion specifically. I said "identity"; that could be national, religious, economic or whatever.
You specifiacally chose Jerusalem because of religion :doubt: get your facts straight, for the sake of seriousness ~~
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Well I think it's likely to happen in the next 50-100 years, so I don't think people will still identify with religion. But it's not all about that. The reason I think New York or Beijing isn't too probable is because of nationality - it suits the people of one nation, but that's it, unlike religion which can encompass large areas and many nations.
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New York, Genevia, Rome.
a floating citty in the middle of the ocean.
or atop an orbital elivator's tether.
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Antarctica!
Brrrrr......
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Atlantis :)
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Geneva sounds nice...make it a fortress...
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This whole debate is pointless because we already know from Star Trek that it's going to be San Fransisco.
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:lol:
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By the way, what was it in Babylon 5? Geneva, right?
Yeah, that's right.
But I guess a lot of it depends on which country is the most powerful. The UN was located in New York probably because Europe was devestated by the biggest war in history when it was created.
The reason I think New York or Beijing isn't too probable is because of nationality - it suits the people of one nation,
You could say that about any city in the world. Jeruselem currently belongs to Israel, and no one else. So it would be convenient for people in Israel, but no one else.
Besides, Beijing has the word "capital" in its name already. ;7
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Mon Oylmpus on Mars but Geneva sounds good.
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I'd say Geneva, most definately.
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Greenwich. Everyone seems to think that it is the center of the universe, so why not it be there?
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Originally posted by IceFire
Atlantis :)
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Sydney! Everyone already thinks it's the nicest place to go for a Holiday, all we need now is a Weapon of Unimaginable Destructive Power (ie. Doomsday Weapon) to force the rest of the world to unite under the banner of Sydney, Australia! *Meniacal Laughter*
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See! I was right! (quote me) But I had the city wrong!
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Greenwich sounds nice - we already base local times all over the world on it - why not a political presence as well?
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Originally posted by Mefustae
Sydney! Everyone already thinks it's the nicest place to go for a Holiday, all we need now is a Weapon of Unimaginable Destructive Power (ie. Doomsday Weapon) to force the rest of the world to unite under the banner of Sydney, Australia! *Meniacal Laughter*
Don't you guys have a bigass ozone hole?
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New York as my first choice, its rather international and it is a huge hub of commerce for the northern hemisphere.
Rio De Genero, Brazil (excuse my spelling) as my second choice because it functions sort of like New York but in the southern hemisphere instead.
London as my third choice because of its significance throughout the colonial era. Much of the world was under the control of England at one time.
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Because of the colonial era?? If you're going to use that argument, why not just say Rome? Rome > London.
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New York as my first choice, its rather international and it is a huge hub of commerce for the northern hemisphere.
Then again so are a lot of major cities. You could say the same thing about Tokyo and Hong Kong for example.
Because of the colonial era?? If you're going to use that argument, why not just say Rome? Rome > London.
Because the Italian economy sucks. :p
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Originally posted by Scuddie
Because of the colonial era?? If you're going to use that argument, why not just say Rome? Rome > London.
What on Earth are you on about? Even at the height of the roman empire they still didn't hold as much land as Alexander the Great had.
And during the colonial age they still didn't hold as much land as the UK. In fact they barely held any land at all. The Spanish, French Portuguese and even the Dutch had more land in their colonies than the italians ever had.
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I say Geneva because that's the Earth Alliance capital in Babylon 5. :p
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I'd like to say London, but Geneva is far more likely...
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Originally posted by Nico
You specifiacally chose Jerusalem because of religion :doubt: get your facts straight, for the sake of seriousness ~~
Jerusalem is not only at the convergence point of 3 continents, but it's already the world's belly-button and, if you listen to propoganda, the cause of much of the world's problems. Why not? ;)
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Belly button :lol:
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Let's stop arguing and turn Earth into a Coruscant. :P
If that fails, er, I vote for the Eternal City. ;P
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Originally posted by Ford Prefect
Don't you guys have a bigass ozone hole?
Okay, 1) That more South, over the Pole with the limits only occaisionally reaching over Tazzy. And 2) that's because you bastards up in the Northern Hemisphere churned out so much CFCs, remember that ALL that crap flies right down South and now we get burned if we're out in the Sun for 20 minutes without sunblock. You guys up there can stay out there for ages, and you don't have the 'burning' feeling when you're in the sun that we've gotten used to.
But, still, Sydney will become the World Capital by default, as - should the world climate continue as it's going right now - the Northern Hemisphere should blow itself up quite effectively, and you lads gone, we're number one baby!! :p
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Heh,. If you want a world city, you'd need to create an area of land which is it's own 'country' similar to the Vatican in Italy, but much more Neutral, I don't think you could build a World City inside any sovereign Country, it's kind of a contradiction of terms ;)
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To be blunt, a "World Capital" not only doesn't make sense, but can't realistically work while there are seperate nations on the planet.
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Originally posted by Raa
Canberra. :nervous: I expect Australia to rise up and conquer mankind anyways...
LoL! *Cheers*
Go Raa, the brainwashed american soon to be aussie! :p
I'd say build a new city somewhere in the Pacific in international waters, aka Atlantis. <. .>
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New York.
Watch any Hollywood movie - especially action flicks. The chances are it's set in New York.
With all that already happening there - it makes sense to make it the World Capital as well!
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It'd be Geneva.
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Originally posted by Sandwich
Jerusalem is not only at the convergence point of 3 continents, but it's already the world's belly-button and, if you listen to propoganda, the cause of much of the world's problems. Why not? ;)
Let's make the belly button an "innie" then, and build the 24 hour United-Earth Shopping Mart over the crater! ;)
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Bah New York. :doubt:
And Jerusalem too!
The united world will have no religeon! ^_^
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Capital of the World? Where the World Government will be headquartered. My guess would be Washington or London.
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Starfleet headquarters is in San Francisco, but IIRC, the capital of Earth is Paris, no?
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Originally posted by Grug
LoL! *Cheers*
Go Raa, the brainwashed american soon to be aussie! :p
I'd say build a new city somewhere in the Pacific in international waters, aka Atlantis. <. .>
I read Canberra was the most boring place on Earth, somewhere. Personally, I'd rather go to Sydney* or soforth.... although you might want somewhere boring as world capital, I guess.
*I'm not sure why Sydney in particular always comes to mind when it comes to places in Oz I'd like to visit.
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Originally posted by Sandwich
To be blunt, a "World Capital" not only doesn't make sense, but can't realistically work while there are seperate nations on the planet.
Not necessarily. Organizations like the EU have a capital city (whether or not its called that). As the world moves towards a centralized government, it's likely to be a gradual transition. Sure, at some point in the future nations will probably disappear, but there's no guaratnee that this will be before the time comes to choose a capital.
Even in a completely centralized global government, there will likely be pseudo-nations ("administrative areas"), simply because of beaurocratic and logistical reaons. Think of the individual States within the US. Or even think of the UN, where all the members submit to a central authority on certain matters, but retain a degree of independece. Right now, the "world capital" could be said to be New York, because that's where the largest, most powerful and only legitimate international government in stationed.
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Or the component states of the United Kingdom, or of Spain (Basque country, Catalunya spring to mind), Germany, etc. Most countries have some form of decomposition for historical or logistic reasons.
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Originally posted by General Freak
Let's stop arguing and turn Earth into a Coruscant. :P
Balls to that. I like trees, thankyou very much...
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Originally posted by Sandwich
Jerusalem is not only at the convergence point of 3 continents, but it's already the world's belly-button and, if you listen to propoganda, the cause of much of the world's problems. Why not? ;)
To be blunt: because it's a ****ty city? :p
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Originally posted by pyro-manic
Balls to that. I like trees, thankyou very much...
We can make half of the terrain Coruscant and the other half a big forest.
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Originally posted by Rictor
...UN... authority...
*snicker*
Originally posted by Nico
To be blunt: because it's a ****ty city? :p
You should know better than to diss something you haven't tried/been to/whatever, what with all the France-bashing you get from the Americans. ;)
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Bah, let me embrace the Internet (non)culture and shut up :p
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I'd say Athens, that's where the modern thought born and the bases of our current civilization have been set.
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Modern western thought, surely?
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Modern western thought, surely?
Err, yes... I forgot to specify, my brain cells looses efficency after midnight it seems...
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Originally posted by Sandwich
*snicker*
That was fair I suppose, at least from an Israeli perspective since we've never enforced the resolutions against you guys.
I mean, God help you if we ever do because there's enough to justify a tactical nuclear strike, but we're busy right now with the dictators we installed 20 years ago. :p
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Just to be different, how about Amsterdam?
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They'd never get any governing done, with all the hookers......
actually, that'd be perfect.
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I can't think exactly where but it would have to be in the States or they wouldn't go along with. Torontonians already think their city is the centre of the universe so they wouldn't embrace a world capital either, unless it was in the States in which case they'd play lemming.
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Originally posted by MicroPsycho
I can't think exactly where but it would have to be in the States or they wouldn't go along with. Torontonians already think their city is the centre of the universe so they wouldn't embrace a world capital either, unless it was in the States in which case they'd play lemming.
Why? They have 1/20th of the world's population and while the power and prestige held by the US is indeed disproportionate, this is likely to decrease from current levels.
I'm a Torontonian and I hardly consider it the capital of the world. it's a nice city, and I like living in it, but not nearly the biggest or greatest.
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Originally posted by vyper
That was fair I suppose, at least from an Israeli perspective since we've never enforced the resolutions against you guys.
I mean, God help you if we ever do because there's enough to justify a tactical nuclear strike, but we're busy right now with the dictators we installed 20 years ago. :p
I'm not going to start a debate in this thread about how Israel's hardly the only country not particularly paying attention to the pathetic little squeaks the UN makes from time to time. ;)
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Having been watching humanity for about twenty-one years now, I can say the declaration of a capitol city will have to involve something stupendously inane and self-destructive... I'd say that we'll probably hollow out Earth's core for a wonderful, 'centralized location' sentiment, all the while failing to even consider the effects this would have on the planet. Ironically, I think the capitol city would, in its construction, become the only habitable city on the planet.
You know what? I'm going to buy up development rights to the core, so that if someone is silly enough to suggest a city down there, I'll get to play the role of the surly, old squatter. Is it bad that I generate ambitions based strictly on what will piss people off later on?
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Originally posted by BlueFlames
Having been watching humanity for about twenty-one years now, I can say the declaration of a capitol city will have to involve something stupendously inane and self-destructive... I'd say that we'll probably hollow out Earth's core for a wonderful, 'centralized location' sentiment, all the while failing to even consider the effects this would have on the planet. Ironically, I think the capitol city would, in its construction, become the only habitable city on the planet.
You know what? I'm going to buy up development rights to the core, so that if someone is silly enough to suggest a city down there, I'll get to play the role of the surly, old squatter. Is it bad that I generate ambitions based strictly on what will piss people off later on?
Too late, that was registered as Zion in The Matrix.
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The UN is a weak organization at the moment. I think that eventually it will either be dissolved in favor of a strong, "world state" style government (like the Earth Alliance from B5) or be strengthend. Either way the end result is that same.
I believe that the UN is just a stop-gap measure for something much grander.
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Originally posted by Kosh
The UN is a weak organization at the moment. I think that eventually it will either be dissolved in favor of a strong, "world state" style government (like the Earth Alliance from B5) or be strengthend. Either way the end result is that same.
I believe that the UN is just a stop-gap measure for something much grander.
Hmm, how was it?
Ah, yes... Austrasia, Eurasia and Estasia... Though the names might vary a little*
*Italian Edition
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I have heard of Eurasia, but not about the other two.
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Hull.
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Originally posted by TopAce
I have heard of Eurasia, but not about the other two.
Rictor should be able to recognize and eventually correctly name them...
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Originally posted by TopAce
I have heard of Eurasia, but not about the other two.
Oceania, Eurasia and Eastasia - the three fictional super-power blocs in 1984.
Though I would hardly consider something along those lines to be likely. The UN, for all it's problems, still provides a unique and very necessary service. I don't see them going away any time soon; no one, not even the US, is seriously contemplating pulling out.
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Originally posted by IPAndrews
Hull.
Not Milton Keynes?
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Stoke-on-Trent..... :shaking:
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Originally posted by Rictor
Oceania, Eurasia and Eastasia - the three fictional super-power blocs in 1984.
Though I would hardly consider something along those lines to be likely. The UN, for all it's problems, still provides a unique and very necessary service. I don't see them going away any time soon; no one, not even the US, is seriously contemplating pulling out.
Oh, so these are names from 1984. Great, clear now.
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Originally posted by IPAndrews
Hull.
The only thing interesting about that place is the suspension bridge, which isn't even the longest anymore :rolleyes:
I say eventually America will take over the World, making Washington the World Capital. Then again, all empires crumble...
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Originally posted by Mefustae
And 2) that's because you bastards up in the Northern Hemisphere churned out so much CFCs, remember that ALL that crap flies right down South and now we get burned if we're out in the Sun for 20 minutes without sunblock. You guys up there can stay out there for ages, and you don't have the 'burning' feeling when you're in the sun that we've gotten used to.
Hey, I know it's our fault. :D I was just concerned with regards to location.
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New New York! <----not a typo ^_^
Originally posted by Flipside
Heh,. If you want a world city, you'd need to create an area of land which is it's own 'country' similar to the Vatican in Italy, but much more Neutral, I don't think you could build a World City inside any sovereign Country, it's kind of a contradiction of terms ;)
That sounds like what we did with Washington and IMO, the best idea.
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Vatican is an idependent sovereign state, though. I don't think Washington is, AFAIK.
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Why's everbody nominating Geneva, without ever having been there (as I assume) ? It's quite a boring city to be honest.
I'd go with Amsterdam too, legal weed&hookers for everybody!
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I say eventually America will take over the World, making Washington the World Capital. Then again, all empires crumble...
I would have thought so, but now I do not think so. Considering how many problems they have been having in Iraq........
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i agree with fish, geneva would be a ****ty choice.
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Originally posted by Col. Fishguts
Why's everbody nominating Geneva, without ever having been there (as I assume) ? It's quite a boring city to be honest.
I'd go with Amsterdam too, legal weed&hookers for everybody!
I don't think people expect or want it to be anything buy a nice boring, peaceful city.
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Originally posted by Col. Fishguts
Why's everbody nominating Geneva, without ever having been there (as I assume) ? It's quite a boring city to be honest.
I'd go with Amsterdam too, legal weed&hookers for everybody!
I've been there, and it's a really nice place, himo.
That said, the topic is about world capital, not world crazyparty center :doubt:
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Originally posted by aldo_14
I don't think people expect or want it to be anything buy a nice boring, peaceful city.
True, but I guess people also expect from a world capital to be somewhat big and imposing (skyscrapers and stuff). But "downtown" Geneva (http://www.bonjourchezdo.com/voyages/suisse/geneve.jpg) consists mainly of historical buildings (like most bigger cities in Switzerland), which is great for attracting hordes of Japanese tourists, but it couldn't support the space for a huge administration a world government would be.
Thinking about it, the administration of the whole world would probably create a bureaucracy so gigantic, it would collapse and form a black hole.
EDIT: @Nico, if you like Geneva, you should visit Lucerne once. It's so mind-boggling beautiful (especially at the lake), that it's almost surrealistic when the weather is right.
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Exactly, you cant just say "somwhere looks beutifull so it's the world capital" it has to have the infastructure to support such a thing, a big city would work the best for this.
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Originally posted by Col. Fishguts
Why's everbody nominating Geneva, without ever having been there (as I assume) ? It's quite a boring city to be honest.
You do realise that this is the place we plan to send our politicians to right?
I think a city with absolutely nothing to do and where everyone has guns sounds about perfect to me :D
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Originally posted by Col. Fishguts
True, but I guess people also expect from a world capital to be somewhat big and imposing (skyscrapers and stuff). But "downtown" Geneva (http://www.bonjourchezdo.com/voyages/suisse/geneve.jpg) consists mainly of historical buildings (like most bigger cities in Switzerland), which is great for attracting hordes of Japanese tourists, but it couldn't support the space for a huge administration a world government would be.
Why is someone setting off explosive charges by the marina?
:wtf: :wtf:
As for infrastructure - all that can be built relatively easily. An administrative center doesn't necessarily mean cultural center, economic center or anything else. It's just a place to put all the politicos so they can squabble in peace.
The other idea would be to have several regional capitals, to which most of the power woul be delegated (New York, Rio di Jeniero, Geneva, Singapore, Jerusalem and uhm, Lagos.)
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Originally posted by karajorma
You do realise that this is the place we plan to send our politicians to right?
I think a city with absolutely nothing to do and where everyone has guns sounds about perfect to me :D
What, whose politicians ?
And not everyone has a gun, well every healthy man between 20 and ~42 is in the army, and thus has a gun at home, but it's not like we use them ;)
@Rictor: That's the "Jet d'Eau (http://switzerland.isyours.com/e/guide/geneva/jetdeau.html)" (translates to "jet of water"), it's kind of a huge fountain..... well a really, really big fountain. It's 140m high and is the landmark of the city.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Vatican is an idependent sovereign state, though. I don't think Washington is, AFAIK.
No, it's not, but it's not part of any state, and on a national scale would be similiar to the Vatican. This is what I was trying to get at. The Vatican would be a global example.
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Originally posted by Col. Fishguts
What, whose politicians ?
Everyones. Just like how MPs from all over the UK gather in Westminster and politicians from all over America gather in Washington if you set up a world government in Geneva all the politicians in the world would end up there.
Originally posted by Col. Fishguts
And not everyone has a gun, well every healthy man between 20 and ~42 is in the army, and thus has a gun at home, but it's not like we use them ;)
Maybe you just don't have anyone worth shooting, yet.
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Chocolate and firearms - the twin pillars of civilization.
Plus, they've got representative democracy down better than most anyone else. Oh, and graphic design. And the knives.
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Originally posted by FireCrack
Exactly, you cant just say "somwhere looks beutifull so it's the world capital" it has to have the infastructure to support such a thing, a big city would work the best for this.
Then Paris: it has both the big buildings and the old, beautiful ones :p
-It also has the most beautiful women in the world, btw :p-
Well, that's what I'd like to say, but Paris can't even get the OG, so the capital of the world... :p
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Leburn, Kentucky! :D
In it's entirety
http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=leburn4yk.jpg
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:wtf: THAT is an incorperated city? :wtf:
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Originally posted by Swantz
Leburn, Kentucky! :D
In it's entirety
http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=leburn4yk.jpg
That makes me want to die.
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Originally posted by Kosh
:wtf: THAT is an incorperated city? :wtf:
It consists of a grocery store and a post office (the post office is the only reason it's called a city):D
The whole states this way theres 251 counties.
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I bet they don't have a crime problem.
"Can you describe the man who robbed you?"
"Yeah, it was Earl"
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..."Which Earl, your cousin?"
"Naww, pops, my second cousin!"
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phah, you want to see small city, I present to you, in ist's entirety, Douglas IL, population 50.
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oh, and it looks like maps.google.com has a new feature.
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San Francisco.
Don't you guys know your future history?
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How about build a neutral city on some random empty island?
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Well, then, Antartica, it's the only land that does not belong to one country :p
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Because no-one needs a huge brick of ice.
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But look at it this way - the country that owns Antarctica has an easy way making ice cubes. They can just slice up a piece of their country.
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It would be pretty hard to build a city on Antartica, it's mostly empty space save for a few penguins and birds. The city'll need food so that'll have to be shipped from another continent (because you can't grow plants on snowy wasteland) so it has to built on the coast. But thanks to the ice caps it's coastline changes so it's harder to bring food to Antarctica. If this World Capital is to be built it should be somewhere we they can produce their own food.
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The world capital must be able to sustain itself indefinetely with limited or no importing of materials such as food, water, and fuel.
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No, it should suck up all the resources from all over the world, otherwise, what kind of world capital would that be? :p
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The world capital is where the politicians end up. I say make it somewhere like Antartica so you know that only the truely dedicated would ever want to go there.
On top of that if they piss the rest of the world off enough we can simply stop sending them the boats full of food.
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Meh..I say we dig a tunnel to the centre of the Earth and build a city there.
Sure, it will be a little hot, but since most politicians will burn in hell anyway, they might as well get used to the hotter climates :D
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Originally posted by karajorma
The world capital is where the politicians end up. I say make it somewhere like Antartica so you know that only the truely dedicated would ever want to go there.
On top of that if they piss the rest of the world off enough we can simply stop sending them the boats full of food.
Might as well send them to the Hebrides, then. Or the Isle of Wight.
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Nah. That would be inhuman! :D
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Originally posted by TopAce
Because no-one needs a huge brick of ice.
Actually, Antarctica is a huge, largely unexploited continent with some rare/valuable metal ores. It's just covered with snow and ice. The north pole, however, is what you would call a 'huge brick of ice' because there is no solid land underneath.