Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: kasperl on August 18, 2005, 02:51:43 pm
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What happened to it? I know there where vague plans 4 weeks ago, but then I went on vacation.
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A Brazillian got shot in the head 6 or 7 times while being pinned to the ground. That's what happened to the plan.
Styx cancelled his plans to visit the UK because of that.
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Turned out that aside from being innocent, the Brazilian did nothing wrong, either. No heavy winter coat, no jumping turnstiles, no hollering... and he even managed to get on the train. The only true thing in the original police report was that he was running... but toward the train, not away from police. :(
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hmm, yeah, it's that aspect of things as well. the pent-up agression from the long tradition of bobbies having to be nice, I guess.
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Damn.
Is there any idea for a meet-up anywhere else in Europe?
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The whole situation is a bloody mess. The guy even stopped to pick up one of the free newspapers you can get in Britain on his way to the turnstyles. And now it appears the initial reports were "misleading" and the copper who was 'sposed to filming as they tracked him wasn't able to do so 'cos he was having a piss.
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It's pretty f**king odd. The policeman who shot him is likely to end up facing a murder charge now.
In that light it makes Styxx's decision to cancel a little odder though. I certainly wouldn't cancel a tri to Rio cause of one crazy cop shotting a Brit.
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Yeah, but it's a wee bit steep to assume because a Brazillian was killed in the UK, that we are all waiting here, guns loaded, for him to arrive. It was a stupid and horrible cock-up, but it was nothing whatsoever to do with his nationality as much as his height/build, the only thing the Police forgot to note, ironically enough, was his skin colour, which was far far lighter than the person they thought they were surveying.
I think I'd be a bit dissapointed if that was the only reason.
Edit : Exactly Kara, I remember Sir Peter Blake in 1991.
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Dam what the hell. I havent even heard of this at all before.
EDIT:
Thats some crazy **** right there. Hell, your poliece act like ours do. Hehe.
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The whole thing is quite odd, but personally, I felt totally safe touring through Britain, and even the M25 was fine :p
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The cop who did the deed was ordered to by higher-ups, and was told they had "positive identification". The higher-up will probably be sacked and get a nice fat pay-out, while the shooter will be hung out to dry.
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In that light it makes Styxx's decision to cancel a little odder though. I certainly wouldn't cancel a tri to Rio cause of one crazy cop shotting a Brit.
I think that part of it is the nationalism factor, but a lot of it is probably the circumstances surrounding the shooting.
He was just minding his own business and gets jumped by plain clothed police officers, he panics and runs, they pin him to the ground, then they unload most of a pistol clip into his head despite the fact that he can't move. I mean come on, that would shake a lot of people up.
But we won't know for sure until Styxx gets back from his trip.
EDIT: And I haven't heard of anything being done to the cop who did it, or his superior officer. That probably bugs a lot of people.
The police around here have a reputation for being trigger happy. Nothing is ever done about it of course.
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Originally posted by karajorma
It's pretty f**king odd. The policeman who shot him is likely to end up facing a murder charge now.
In that light it makes Styxx's decision to cancel a little odder though. I certainly wouldn't cancel a tri to Rio cause of one crazy cop shotting a Brit.
if it's anything like colombia, I wouldn't really plan a trip to there in the first place.
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From what I heard, the order had been given to detain the guy, but the order never reached the Policeman. It's a bad situation, even if the orders hadn't reached him, why did he assume the order would be shoot to kill, was probably crapping his pants to be honest, considering the two days of bombings/attempted bombings in the weeks beforehand.
If we prosecute, which, if what we have been told is true, is really what we should be doing, just liike any other argument that ends in murder, even though the person is usually wracked with guilt, they are still prosecuted for the crime they commited, we can't make an exception of 'we thought it was a Terrorist', it opens the door to atrocities beyond measure.
However, if we prosecute it could cause an armed officer hesitate later for fear of prosecution and lead to the deaths of innocent people, and once again, the blame will land on the Police.
The training scheme at Hendon is still, at heart, based around the 'Bobby' approach, of interaction and communication, it doesn't always work very well, I'll admit, but the hearts in the right place, it's the brains that are misplaced. Policemen aren't really trained for this kind of thing, they can deal with people threatening violence to them, pulling a gun or a knife, someone who is scared, aggressive and really just wants to get away. They don't know what to do with someone who's aim is to kill as many people as they can, the training failed, the officer panicked.
There are lessons to be learnt from the whole thing, but pointing fingers or looking for 'why' is pretty pointless in the long run :(
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it's worth noting IMO this incident is really - tragic as may be - a freak occurance and not atall indicative of policing in the UK.
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True. Usually it's the copper that ends up dead...
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Well, the shooting is part of the reason, but only a small part of it. I wasn't sure about my stop at Europe anyway, and I'll probably won't have the time for it. I also didn't get much of a reply in terms of places to stay. The trip is planned to february 2006, though, so a lot can change up to then. Right now my plans include Vancouver, Sydney and Jerusalem. If I can wrangle a couple extra weeks vacation I'll try to drop by at Europe in general, then there wouldn't be any reason (aside from indignation born out of national pride, which isn't much of a reason) not to go to England, considering plane ticket prices if you buy them in advance. That is, if this kind of stuff doesn't happen again.
And about Rio - considering how bad the situation is over there right now, I'd rather go to Bagdhad wearing a "Muslims suck, America rules!" t-shirt.
:D
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Originally posted by aldo_14
it's worth noting IMO this incident is really - tragic as may be - a freak occurance and not atall indicative of policing in the UK.
I would most certainly hope not.
Terror by the state or terror by the fundamentalists, not much of a choice.
And about Rio - considering how bad the situation is over there right now
What is the situation in Rio and how bad is it?
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Originally posted by Kosh
What is the situation in Rio and how bad is it?
What's happening is basically a parallel government by the drug dealer gangs. They block roads and tunnels, order the stores to close at certain areas of the city, pose as the police to steal/kidnap people or just to scare them, stuff like that, and the police can't do much - they react, but what usually happens then is a huge firefight with automatic weapons.
A few days ago, for example, the drug dealer bosses ordered a tunnel to be closed down, they blocked it with a few buses (stolen right then, they ordered everyone out and used them to block the tunnel) and basically barricaded the whole place. Firefight ensued. All on live TV since there was a reporter with camera crew at the tunnel. Then they cut the power to large section of the city which included the tunnel, and the firefight went on in the dark. It's pretty much an urban warzone right now, not the best of places to visit. They usually don't mess much with the common tourist spots, but that's no guarantee of anything.
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I seem to recall a news story of Gangs raiding an Army depot and making off with Anti-Armour weapons. That was Rio, wasn't it ?
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I'd much rather have armed gangs walking off with escalators than anti-tank weapons.
But it really sounds like they need the army. Why haven't they declared a state of emergency and called in the Brazillian army?
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so, you'r going on a trip around the world, but your not going to visit the US because you think you'll end up in gitmo, you won't visit the UK, because a Brazilian got shot there, and yet, you live in a self described urban war zone.
well have fun on your trip to Aulstrailia :).
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Originally posted by Kosh
But it really sounds like they need the army. Why haven't they declared a state of emergency and called in the Brazillian army?
They did that a few years ago when it was as bad as it's now. The gangs retreated and were confined to the shantytowns (most of them located on hills in Rio), but there wasn't a way to get rid of them without lots of civilian casualties or even more casualties among the military (by bombing and invading, respectively) so neither option was even considered. When the military left, it all started to get back to what it was before.
If I had been the commander in charge of it, I'd have cordoned off the shantytowns and ordered everyone to leave through a series of controlled checkpoints, where identifiable criminals would be held, and then I'd have napalmed the **** out of those hills. House the innocent people on military-controlled shelters for a time while they rebuild their houses themselves with government support (it's not like they actually legally own anything on those shantytowns anyway), but now do it in an organized and easy to police way (since right now the shantytowns are a nightmare for the cops). Would require quite an investment, but it would get rid of a lot of the criminals, would make it easier to control the gangs later when they reformed, and would give most of the people there better living conditions in the long run.
Besides, Rio stinks. Literally.
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Originally posted by Bobboau
so, you'r going on a trip around the world, but your not going to visit the US because you think you'll end up in gitmo, you won't visit the UK, because a Brazilian got shot there, and yet, you live in a self described urban war zone.
well have fun on your trip to Aulstrailia :).
Rio is quite far from where I live, thank you. The urban violence problem in my city isn't any worse than in any other comparable city on a first world country. And as I mentioned, I wouldn't visit Rio either.
;)
Oh, and I won't visit the US because it's too damn hard to get a tourist visa lately, and the shooting is a very small part of my decision not to go to the UK.
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And people think Israel is unsafe. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Sandwich
And people think Israel is unsafe. :rolleyes:
Almost everyone I tell about my trip comment on exactly that. So I ask them if they'd be willing to visit Rio. Then they shut up. :p
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:lol: Well, tell them that at least here, the good guys have guns. :p