Post by: IceFire on August 18, 2005, 03:18:28 pm
Requirements are that its very ergonomic, its relatively quiet and its not wireless.
Post by: aldo_14 on August 18, 2005, 03:22:54 pm
http://www.mikhailtech.com/modules.php?name=Articles&rop=showcontent&id=28
Cheap and works well. The media keys (controls winamp) and rebindable hotkeys are very handy.
Post by: Sandwich on August 19, 2005, 03:34:48 am
Post by: aldo_14 on August 19, 2005, 03:58:42 am
Post by: CP5670 on August 19, 2005, 10:04:18 am
I am wary of wireless things in general since every wireless mouse I have seen has a lag problem and is unsuitable for games (even newer ones like the MX1000), although I don't know about keyboards. The wireless feature would be of no use to me anyway so there is little point in paying extra for it.
Post by: Turnsky on August 19, 2005, 10:09:17 am
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
I have a Logitech, too. Wireless, though. What do you have against wireless keyboards? The batteries - even rechargables - last for months and months, and there's no lag like there is with the wireless mouse that came with it (granted, it's an older version, and they've supposedly solved the lag problem).
got no complaints from my Logitech Cordless MX Duo Bluetooth.
the Mouse is rechargeable, and the KB lasts for ages off a single set of duracells, hell, you can push nearly 7-8 months out of those lithium ones if you really want to go high tech.
Post by: Windrunner on August 19, 2005, 11:22:32 am
Post by: -Vulture- on August 19, 2005, 11:26:38 am
(http://pics.computerbase.de/news/11500/1.jpg)
Post by: CP5670 on August 19, 2005, 11:36:14 am
Post by: -Vulture- on August 19, 2005, 11:48:32 am
Heres the link to the german news: http://www.computerbase.de/news/hardware/peripherie/eingabegeraete/2005/august/fuer_zocker_das_logitech_g15-keyboard/
Post by: CP5670 on August 19, 2005, 11:51:23 am
Quote
The G15 also features a switch that turns off the 'Windows' key, so hitting that button accidentally won't end your game.
:jaw:
I think this is going to be my next keyboard. :nod: Their website lists it at $80, although I can probably find it for less if I look around a bit. I need to make sure it fits on my desk though, since it's wider than a normal one.
Post by: -Vulture- on August 19, 2005, 11:54:44 am
Post by: CP5670 on August 19, 2005, 11:59:17 am
The only thing is that I might have to push back my monitor a bit to accomodate this on my desk.
Post by: -Vulture- on August 19, 2005, 12:01:59 pm
Post by: BlackDove on August 19, 2005, 12:09:16 pm
(http://artlebedev.com/portfolio/optimus/keyb_002.jpg)
Too bad it doesn't exist, eh?
Post by: Sandwich on August 19, 2005, 12:09:18 pm
(http://www.artlebedev.com/portfolio/optimus/keyb_001.jpg)
EDIT: Dangit, you beat me!
Post by: BlackDove on August 19, 2005, 12:09:47 pm
Post by: Sandwich on August 19, 2005, 12:10:55 pm
Post by: BlackDove on August 19, 2005, 12:11:31 pm
Post by: CP5670 on August 19, 2005, 12:27:00 pm
Post by: -Vulture- on August 19, 2005, 12:29:39 pm
Post by: Descenterace on August 19, 2005, 12:36:42 pm
Quote
The G15 also features a switch that turns off the 'Windows' key, so hitting that button accidentally won't end your game.
:doubt:
I've got a means of turning off the Windows key too.
It's called 'levering it off with a screwdriver'.
Behold the Winkey-less budget keyboard of silvery coolness, which has lasted three and a half years without a glitch despite having Cola spilt on it four times (three of which involved Vodka too):
Only £10 in PC World, and roughly £2 if you buy online!
OK, so it's not ergonomic and it's not wireless, but it's very robust. And it now has three spare keysprings.
Post by: CP5670 on August 19, 2005, 12:41:48 pm
Post by: MicroPsycho on August 19, 2005, 01:25:17 pm
Post by: Sandwich on August 19, 2005, 02:53:10 pm
Quote
Originally posted by -Vulture-
Yeah, to me too. Those display-keys are a very nice idea, but the keyboard lacks other special features.
What in the world are you talking about, "lacks other special features"?? You could hack it to display an ongoing chat on the spacebar, your stock tracking all over the numberpad, and the rear-view mirror on the enter key!
Post by: BlackDove on August 19, 2005, 03:13:58 pm
That's rather it.
If you can't find a way to accomodate a game to the already existing 101-104 keyes on a regular keyboard, you need to go out and buy a brain that can handle logical placement, rather than a keyboard.
Post by: -Vulture- on August 19, 2005, 04:13:43 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
What in the world are you talking about, "lacks other special features"?? You could hack it to display an ongoing chat on the spacebar, your stock tracking all over the numberpad, and the rear-view mirror on the enter key!
Are you serious?:rolleyes: ;)
Those displays are for small symbols, not for bigger things like the display from the G15. With special features i mean an outstanding design, a big display, macro-keys and so on...:cool: :D
Post by: Sandwich on August 19, 2005, 04:27:41 pm
Post by: Descenterace on August 19, 2005, 04:34:52 pm
Quote
Originally posted by BlackDove
The only thing that a gamer should look in a keyboard, is the ability to press as many as possible simultanious keyes without the crap locking up.
That's also limited by the design of the computer's keyboard controller chip. The bus is only about 9 bits wide and putting even three keypresses on that at a time is pretty good going.
My 'budget' keyboard can usually manage three keys from each row quite happily, though. They might not all be detected, but they don't produce weird effects.
Post by: Sandwich on August 19, 2005, 05:09:22 pm
EDIT: Lookie what I found! http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/785b/
Post by: Martinus on August 19, 2005, 05:51:20 pm
[/color]
Post by: BlackDove on August 19, 2005, 06:14:57 pm
Quote
This contortion of your fingers is one of the main reasons people end up with repetitive stress injuries (RSI).
Aka - another reason we have pulled out of ass just to make this product more appealing to the regular tard.
Post by: mikhael on August 19, 2005, 06:43:46 pm
Of course, I dropped $300 for a Thrustmaster HOTAS/Cougar. I believe in paying for a quality piece of hardware.
Post by: BlackDove on August 19, 2005, 07:04:03 pm
Again, ass.
Also, there are so many fundamentally wrong things about owning such a keyboard. The first one in line, is that you're getting used to something that isn't default, and guess what, all other keyboards are rather the same. It'd be a ***** from hell for me to get used to that, and then have to switch to normal, and go back and forth. I'd either be
a) pissed out of my mind
b) dual wringer, master of none
Post by: mikhael on August 19, 2005, 07:37:29 pm
As for switching back and forth, its rather like driving in Japan and driving in the US: we drive on opposite sides of the road, but anyone who learned to do both can switch rather easily. I go from split ergo keyboards to vanilla keyboards to rack mounted non-qwerty keygrids. So can pretty much all the tech people I work with.
Post by: Sandwich on August 19, 2005, 08:49:16 pm
And no, nobody is paying attention to your not-wireless specification. :p
Post by: IceFire on August 19, 2005, 08:53:31 pm
Anyways...yeah I just have no real reason for a wireless keyboard. I just have a MS Ergonomic Keyboard that is 8 years old and is dying. I think its time for a new keyboard...and one that plugs in and does its thing is just fine.
I have a lovely MX500 mouse from Logitech so a matching keyboard would be nice...but I want it to be quiet and comfortable and I don't really want to worry so much about batteries...although I guess if I HAVE TO I will...but if I don't...
I also tend to pinch nerves in my neck and get cramped fingers due to typing. Having a solid keyboard that reduces strain is key.
Post by: BlackDove on August 19, 2005, 08:57:39 pm
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
Actually, from experience, I'd have to say you're wrong on the first count. Switching to an ergonomic keyboard really does help RSI, a huge amount. Medical science is behind me on this one too: doctors recommend ergo keyboards for RSI sufferers to lessen the stress on the tendons that pass through the carpal tunnel.
As for switching back and forth, its rather like driving in Japan and driving in the US: we drive on opposite sides of the road, but anyone who learned to do both can switch rather easily. I go from split ergo keyboards to vanilla keyboards to rack mounted non-qwerty keygrids. So can pretty much all the tech people I work with.
Doctors reccomend anything as long as they're paid to do so. But I'm not going to say you're wrong, I'm sure it does help. However, what helps it more is knocking off the keyboard completely, not spending XXX amount of exessive $ to get something that'll "help" while you're purposely HURTING yourself.
As for switching back and forth, keyboard isn't my life, nor am I a "techie". I'm sure I'd be able to multitask between different keyboards, I hope I'm not that much of a retard to switch between different designs, but again, going back and forth
Quote
Originally posted by BlackDove
I'd either be
a) pissed out of my mind
b) dual wringer, master of none
Both negative as far as I go.
Post by: Kamikaze on August 19, 2005, 11:23:34 pm
http://www.pckeyboard.com/customizer.html <-- Copy of the IBM Model M keyboards (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Model_M_Keyboard). Good tactile feedback. Not sure it'd be good for quietness though.
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/pfuca-store/haphackeylit1.html <-- Happy Hacking Lite 2 keyboard. Useful for a programmer, especially one who uses *nix.
Yeah, I'm a minimalist when it comes to keyboards. :p
Post by: CP5670 on August 20, 2005, 01:37:25 am
Quote
The only thing that a gamer should look in a keyboard, is the ability to press as many as possible simultanious keyes without the crap locking up.
This is the main reason I need a new keyboard. I was going to buy one this weekend, but after seeing that G15 I'm going to wait a while. I used to have a USB keyboard for a few years, but the spacebar spring mechanism broke a few months ago so I had to dump it and go back to an older PS2 keyboard. It works okay, but I really hate its multiple key limitations with the numpad. I basically can't do diagonal jumps in FPS games at the moment with my preferred key bindings. Very annoying.
Quote
I have a lovely MX500 mouse from Logitech so a matching keyboard would be nice...
I have an MX510 and I think it's still the best mouse in some ways. They have some newer stuff out now but I prefer the MX510 to newer designs for the number of extra buttons it has. The MX518 has the two cruise buttons effectively removed since you use them for switching the DPI and the new G5 and G7 have one of the side buttons removed as well. The MX1000 effectively has more buttons due to the tilt wheel but is heavy and has lag problems due to its wireless nature.
Quote
And no, nobody is paying attention to your not-wireless specification.
What's the point of a wireless keyboard anyway? I mean, it just sits in the same place on your desk all the time. I can see the convenience of a wireless mouse or wireless headphones (if you didn't have to compromise on other things for the wireless feature), but a wireless keyboard makes about as much sense as having a wireless monitor or wireless printer. :p
Post by: Sandwich on August 20, 2005, 04:19:45 am
Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
What's the point of a wireless keyboard anyway? I mean, it just sits in the same place on your desk all the time. I can see the convenience of a wireless mouse or wireless headphones (if you didn't have to compromise on other things for the wireless feature), but a wireless keyboard makes about as much sense as having a wireless monitor or wireless printer. :p
It depends on your typical usage. Most of the time my wireless keyboard sits on the desk, yeah. But sometimes I like to tilt my chair back, push away from the desk, and work at a slightly larger distance. It's also good for Media Center PCs, which mine is slowly becoming. ;)
Post by: mikhael on August 20, 2005, 07:10:44 am
Quote
Originally posted by BlackDove
Doctors reccomend anything as long as they're paid to do so. But I'm not going to say you're wrong, I'm sure it does help. However, what helps it more is knocking off the keyboard completely, not spending XXX amount of exessive $ to get something that'll "help" while you're purposely HURTING yourself.
I don't think any of the doctors I've ever met had a phat Belkin or Logitech sponsorship. In fact, none I've ever heard of have said anything beyond "you should use an ergonomic keyboard" (many of which can be had for as little as $3). The Maltron is one company's version of an ergonomic keyboard, not the reference design, nor the reference pricetag.
You're also missing one of the key points of ergonomic keyboard designs: preventing damage in the first place. Some of us are stuck "purposely HURTING" ourselves, because computer work is our source of income.
Post by: Turnsky on August 20, 2005, 07:26:30 am
it's a shame they retired the Elite pro keyboards, they're bloody nice, i used to have one until i spilt the liquid from some ramen noodles on it by accident :blah:
but my current cordless keyboard is based on the same design.. i swear by any of logitech's keyboards, particularly the uncomplicated ones.
Post by: Descenterace on August 20, 2005, 08:17:45 am
Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
The MX1000 effectively has more buttons due to the tilt wheel but is heavy and has lag problems due to its wireless nature.
I bought the MX1000 because all the other wireless mouses I'd used (and the wired ones, for that matter) sucked ass, and I had a £50 Dixons gift voucher on me. Lag isn't limited to wireless, trust me...
But the MX1000 doesn't lag at all. I explain this in the following manner:
"Crap mouses suck, wireless or not. Decent mouses are good, wireless or not."
Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
What's the point of a wireless keyboard anyway? I mean, it just sits in the same place on your desk all the time. I can see the convenience of a wireless mouse or wireless headphones (if you didn't have to compromise on other things for the wireless feature), but a wireless keyboard makes about as much sense as having a wireless monitor or wireless printer. :p
:yes: In full agreement there! Yeah, wireless keyboards do seem a bit pointless. Like wireless networking for desktop computers.
But with the number of cables I have stuffed down the back of my desk, wireless Surround speakers, monitors, keyboard, headphone transmitter modules, joysticks and power supplies are looking quite attractive.
Post by: CP5670 on August 20, 2005, 10:30:42 am
Quote
I bought the MX1000 because all the other wireless mouses I'd used (and the wired ones, for that matter) sucked ass, and I had a £50 Dixons gift voucher on me. Lag isn't limited to wireless, trust me...
But the MX1000 doesn't lag at all. I explain this in the following manner:
"Crap mouses suck, wireless or not. Decent mouses are good, wireless or not."
I actually had originally bought the MX1000 last year but ended up returning it after a few days due to the weight and lag issues. It's very slight and I only noticed in multiplayer UT2004, but it really bothered me there so it had to go back (twitch turning movements often seemed to occur an instant after I had done them). There is also a separate issue where picking up the mouse and putting it back down leads to a delay before it starts tracking again, although this is unrelated to it being wireless. The MX510 was half the price and didn't have any such problems. I missed out on the tilt wheel though, which was sometimes useful.
Quote
:yes: In full agreement there! Yeah, wireless keyboards do seem a bit pointless. Like wireless networking for desktop computers.
But with the number of cables I have stuffed down the back of my desk, wireless Surround speakers, monitors, keyboard, headphone transmitter modules, joysticks and power supplies are looking quite attractive.
I have the same mess behind my desk (who doesn't?), but half the things are actually power connectors, so it might be hard to make those wireless. :D
Wireless headphones would be the one really useful wireless device, as I always play games with headphones and my headphone cable gets tangled up in my chair's armrest quite frequently despite being coiled. The thing is that every wireless headphone I have tried has an annoying hiss when it's not putting out any sound, and of couse there is the fact that wireless headphones cost around three times as much as comparable wired ones.
Post by: IceFire on August 20, 2005, 04:02:50 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Turnsky
Logitech media keyboard (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/US/EN,CRID=2166,CONTENTID=10568)
it's a shame they retired the Elite pro keyboards, they're bloody nice, i used to have one until i spilt the liquid from some ramen noodles on it by accident :blah:
but my current cordless keyboard is based on the same design.. i swear by any of logitech's keyboards, particularly the uncomplicated ones.
That one is definately appealing...is it considered ergonomic?