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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kazan on August 30, 2005, 12:26:40 pm

Title: So our german friends...
Post by: Kazan on August 30, 2005, 12:26:40 pm
... you're having elections soon.

Care to fill us stupid americans in on how your government works, the major parties, their platforms and candidates?
Title: So our german friends...
Post by: vyper on August 30, 2005, 12:37:56 pm
Or us slightly less well informed Brits?
Title: So our german friends...
Post by: Col. Fishguts on August 30, 2005, 12:48:37 pm
While I leave it to the resident Germans to explain their political system.... say hello to the very likely new chancellor: Angela Merkel

(https://www.toonster.de/ic/74/28/05107879233.gif)
Title: So our german friends...
Post by: Deepblue on August 30, 2005, 01:05:21 pm
*Is sick*

Ew.
Title: So our german friends...
Post by: deep_eyes on August 30, 2005, 01:07:18 pm
ahhahahahaha
Title: So our german friends...
Post by: Starman01 on August 30, 2005, 02:31:14 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Deepblue
*Is sick*

Ew.



:lol:  I have to agree. The only sad thing about this is :

I am german :doubt: . Life sucks :)

But seriously, it's not the best picture made of here, she may be look like this shortly after she stands up in the morning. I'm only sorry for her male (I think she is married, isn't she ?) who is waking up next beside to her :) Of course this is here is a photoshoping of a voting-advertisment, the real ones are better.
However, the picture itself isn't a photoshoping at all, they once catch her with that face and the photo has been seen quite some time since then :D

About the politic, I'm not very good in that, especially when I have to say it in another language, so just to make it short (and don't you dare flaming me for something I say here :) ) :

There have been only 4 partys (not sure this is the right word for it) which are worth voting for:

First the big ones, the goverment from before that was active 8 years ago (CDU/CSU), and the party that was active the last 8 years(SPD). Both promise and speak quite much, but don't establish so much in the end. But that's o.k, because after being a few months a politic you will earn more retirement payment than todays topmanagers earn, so there is no real need for them to to anything.

Then there are 2 rather small ones (FDP and the greens (yeah, that's their name :) ), which team up with the bigger ones so they get more seats in the goverment. They will never get enough votes to make a single goverment (so at least democrazy has a positive effect)

The rest is not really worth to be mentioned IMO. The old DDR SED has renamed itself PDS and still get's much votes, and some rand-partys are also joining in including some nazi-like suckers, which are also getting some votes (some people never learn :( )

About the goverment, from what I learned at school (the few moments I was awake that is) I noticed it is to complicate to really work out in the end.

Don't misunderstand me, democrazy (spelling ? ) is good and worth protecting, but the last 8 years haven't been very good for our infrasctructure. I think the big problem was, that the two big ones were rather equal, and once one made a suggestions, the others were against it, and that really sucked. But, never mind, did I mention the politicians earn some good money :)

If you want a good goverment, vote for me (leading member of the "german beer-drinker party") :D
Title: So our german friends...
Post by: Kazan on August 30, 2005, 02:47:35 pm
man buchstrabiert es "democracy" auf english - aber "democrazy" passt :D [crazy.. verrukt :D]
Title: So our german friends...
Post by: Starman01 on August 30, 2005, 02:49:38 pm
Ups :), but in that case there lies really some truth into "democrazy" :D
Title: So our german friends...
Post by: Kazan on August 30, 2005, 02:52:00 pm
Jawohl, Hier gibt es viel "democrazy" mit dem rechtenflank und der praesident

Was versprechen Merkel und Schröder?  Arbeitsplätze schaffen? bessere Schulbildung?
Title: So our german friends...
Post by: Col. Fishguts on August 30, 2005, 02:53:55 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Starman01
Don't misunderstand me, democrazy (spelling ? ) .....


:lol: Actually it's "democracy", but your spelling makes much more sense.

EDIT: Kaz beat me to it by far, while I was typing.

To break down German politics in a nutshell (from what I've gathered over the border ;) )

SPD (~Social Party of Germany): Traditional worker party, from center to left-wing, strong ties to the worker unions, concentrates on social welfare, is in charge since 1998 (with Schroeder as chancellor), together with the "greens"

CDU (~Christian Democratic Union): Traditional conservative party, from center to middle-right wing, is likely to win the elections on Sept. 18th

FDP (~Liberals, but not what American think liberal means): Party for the employers (and generaly rich people), strong ties to the economy, somewhat conservative, sometimes progressive (whichever fits better atm), has suffered from bad leadership in the past years

Die Grünen (~the greens): relativley young party, concentrates on environmental themes, left-wing, together with the SPD they formed a coalition which has the majority, is slowly but constantly growing

WASG (~election alternative for social fairness): Very new party, has fusioned with the PDS (succesor of the SED in the former DDR) to form a far-left-wing party, is filling the gap that was left by the SPD when it moved to the center, will likely win quite some votes

Basically, what happened in the last few months is that the SPD lost a lot of elections because Schroeder punched through some reforms that didn't go down well in his elector base. Germany's economy is in bad shape since several years.
The social welfare institutions are bloated, and can't be sustained by the current budget anymore. So the SPD leadership made some hard decisions to cut down the expenses, and by doing this they strayed far away from the traditional policy of their party. And now they have to pay for it, because a lot of the SPD voters are dissapointed by their party.

@Kaz: Schroeder is promising to keep his "Agenda 2010". Merkel isn't promising anything concrete, because atm she's winning anyway. If the CDU will run things better remains to be seen. Any how come that you're so eloquent in German ?
Title: So our german friends...
Post by: Black Wolf on August 30, 2005, 02:55:41 pm
Don't you guys have some hot 19 year old redhead in parliament or something?



Ah, yep (http://www.thecouriermail.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,16428017%255E954,00.html) - Julia Bonk.

(http://www.thecouriermail.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,1658,5041917,00.jpg)

Bonk indeed.[/color]
Title: So our german friends...
Post by: Kazan on August 30, 2005, 02:56:47 pm
now that's a hot politician.. and her shirt is hilarious
Title: So our german friends...
Post by: Starman01 on August 30, 2005, 03:07:17 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kazan
Was versprechen Merkel und Schröder?  Arbeitsplätze schaffen? bessere Schulbildung?


Yeah, mostly "more work, and less taxes". School-educating has never been a great deal in our elections AFAIK, since it's not so bad at all. Teachers are a little bad paid, that's all.

Though there is really a problem with our economy, which has gone down into the cellar for the last few years, and our moneydebts to other countries have raised ever since, also our tax income isn't sufficient for the needs and the depts. (maybe it would be enough, if they wouldn't waste it so much).

About the economy, I think this entire Europe thing is the problem. The theory of a united europe is great, and it would have been a great deal for all it's inhabitants if it would have worked out. But the problem is, that work in our neighbour-countries is still much cheaper, and especially at the borders people go and get the cheaper workers, while german workers are too expensive and will end up on the road finally.

Same goes for the big companies. Everyone wants to work less (35 hours a week) and wants more money instead. And in order to finance that, the companies had to fire more workers or go away into the cheaper other countries.

There are some other problems too, but they are mostly ignored, which is really sad. IMO it is extremly necessary to edit the courts and punishments in our country. It's really a joke what you can do in our country :( But it seems, that no goverment really cares about that
Title: So our german friends...
Post by: Kazan on August 30, 2005, 03:10:48 pm
yeah

you want to see the US debt?

(http://brillig.com/debt_clock/debtiv.gif)
Title: So our german friends...
Post by: Starman01 on August 30, 2005, 03:13:55 pm
This can't be true, right ? :) I always thought that america stand rather good in dept-issues.

If we would have that many depts, our finance-minister would shoot himself (but only if he would be fast enough to do it himself :D )

(edit) Hm, it raised for over 2 millions in a couple of minutes, now that is heavy. I suppose you copied that from some serious link, didn't you ?
Title: So our german friends...
Post by: Kazan on August 30, 2005, 03:25:12 pm
Code: [Select]

Prior Fiscal
 Years

Bush II
+ 1,571,589,284,130.26
392,897,321,032.56/year

[b]09/30/2004        $7,379,052,696,330.32
09/30/2003        $6,783,231,062,743.62
09/30/2002        $6,228,235,965,597.16
09/28/2001        $5,807,463,412,200.06 [/b]

Clinton
+1,262,689,326,747.48
157,836,165,843.43/year

[i]
09/29/2000        $5,674,178,209,886.86  
09/30/1999        $5,656,270,901,615.43
09/30/1998        $5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997        $5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996        $5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995        $4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994        $4,692,749,910,013.32
09/30/1993        $4,411,488,883,139.38
[/i]

Bush I
+1,207,189,695,334.34
301,797,423,833.58/year

[b]
09/30/1992        $4,064,620,655,521.66
09/30/1991        $3,665,303,351,697.03
09/28/1990        $3,233,313,451,777.25
09/29/1989        $2,857,430,960,187.32
[/b]

Reagen
09/30/1988        $2,602,337,712,041.16
09/30/1987        $2,350,276,890,953.00
Title: So our german friends...
Post by: Kazan on August 30, 2005, 03:26:16 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Starman01
(edit) Hm, it raised for over 2 millions in a couple of minutes, now that is heavy. I suppose you copied that from some serious link, didn't you ?


yes.. that image is a constantly updated reflection of the current US national debt

http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm

oops.. i messed up my table above
Title: So our german friends...
Post by: redmenace on August 30, 2005, 03:29:04 pm
Well, from what I understand is that Shroeder is still saying "I am against Bush" and pretty much nothing else. Also, I am not sure Germans are going to like what the conservative german party wants to do with employment situation particularly in east germany. If I am mistaken, please forgive my ignorance.
Title: So our german friends...
Post by: Kazan on August 30, 2005, 03:30:38 pm
that's the impression i get too red.. but i'd like to hear more details from actual germans
Title: So our german friends...
Post by: Col. Fishguts on August 30, 2005, 04:03:42 pm
Quote
Originally posted by redmenace
Well, from what I understand is that Shroeder is still saying "I am against Bush" and pretty much nothing else.


Actually no, foreign politics is only aminor topic in the upcoming election. It's all about bringing Germany "back on track".
Schroeder is clinging to his "Hartz IV" reform program, while Merkel hasn't made many concrete statements on how to improve the situation yet (except that she will make everything better than Schroeder, of course).

But yeah, I'd like to hear more German opinions too.
Title: So our german friends...
Post by: Kazan on August 30, 2005, 04:09:11 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Col. Fishguts
(except that she will make everything better than Schroeder, of course).



she sounds like a politician :D
Title: So our german friends...
Post by: EtherShock on August 30, 2005, 04:26:12 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Black Wolf
Don't you guys have some hot 19 year old redhead in parliament or something?



Ah, yep (http://www.thecouriermail.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,16428017%255E954,00.html) - Julia Bonk.

(http://www.thecouriermail.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,1658,5041917,00.jpg)

Bonk indeed.[/color]

Wow, you don't have age restrictions for the legislature in Germany?
Title: So our german friends...
Post by: Kazan on August 30, 2005, 04:45:56 pm
EtherShock: i'm all for getting to see hotties like that in the legislature

yay for germany for being mature



unlike us americans who's DoJ's top priority isn't terrorism: it's persecuting people for doing legal things like daring to look at porn - and our favorite right-wing media shill Fox News has reporters saying that soliders should be arrested for saying bush is a liar


"Schoener leben ohne Nazis" indeed - ich weiss wo die nazis sind gegangen!  Die Nazis haben zum Vereinigte Staaten gefliegen und habe weidergeborenchristians geworden
Title: So our german friends...
Post by: Ford Prefect on August 30, 2005, 04:47:08 pm
Holy crap. I like politics a lot more now.
Title: So our german friends...
Post by: EtherShock on August 30, 2005, 05:05:10 pm
Oh I'm just curious Kaz. I'm not against this. Not everything I say is an accusation. I'm asking a question. I don't know a lot about German government, so I want to learn.

I feel the youth should have representatives in government, maybe we'd actually vote then. She does represent young people, right? She seems like she does. That shirt is awesome.
Title: So our german friends...
Post by: Kazan on August 30, 2005, 06:21:59 pm
gotcha

and that shirt, and what is under it :D, is awesome :D
Title: So our german friends...
Post by: Rictor on August 30, 2005, 06:24:42 pm
The term "Chancellor" always creeps me out a bit. It instantly brings to mind Hitler...or someone from a bad sci-f showi.
Title: So our german friends...
Post by: aldo_14 on August 30, 2005, 06:24:44 pm
'Bonk'.

And we would, wouldn't we?

Brilliant.
Title: So our german friends...
Post by: Bobboau on August 30, 2005, 06:29:00 pm
what does that shirt say!?
Title: So our german friends...
Post by: karajorma on August 30, 2005, 06:32:38 pm
Get it here?

Judging from the reactions of those who speak german at least. :D
Title: So our german friends...
Post by: aldo_14 on August 30, 2005, 06:34:59 pm
"Live better without nazis"
Title: So our german friends...
Post by: Kazan on August 30, 2005, 07:17:19 pm
more precisely "Better Living without nazis"