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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kazan on September 01, 2005, 06:08:38 pm

Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: Kazan on September 01, 2005, 06:08:38 pm
This is true, this is on record in the budget, in the Army Corp of Engineers records, etc all the other essential pertinent government records

and the Bush admin are trying to deny it

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001051313
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: Blaise Russel on September 01, 2005, 06:18:12 pm
Good thing Iraq is free and flying, right? :P
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: BlackDove on September 01, 2005, 08:12:26 pm
Sorry but whoever had the idea to build a city in a pond deserves everything that's coming to him.

So goes for the settlers.

The reconstruction though - Couldn't care less myself. Not affecting me in any way whatsoever. If it did, and I cared, I wouldn't be sitting here posting about it, that's for sure.
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: Kazan on September 01, 2005, 10:16:32 pm
Sorry but he who spouts off their mouth before knowing the geological situation needs to STFU and read something.


The city wasn't below sea level when it was build - several wetlands around it were drained and that lowered the water table causing subsidance [sinkage] so it went beneath water level.  It continues to subside because of this.  

Several FEMA officials have made statements to the effect that they will do not want to allow buildings to be rebuilt in these wetlands so they can be restored, raising the water table and stopping the subsidance
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: mikhael on September 01, 2005, 10:33:19 pm
I didn't RTFA, but I wonder, did anyone raise the issue of where the National Guard is for this natural disaster? Shouldn't they be in there leading the cleanup and security efforts?
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: StratComm on September 01, 2005, 10:36:59 pm
If the Guard was a standing force, then yes, they should and would be there already.  They aren't standing, so it takes a few days to mobilize them.  We're (meaning Americans and people in general) being too impatient with the system; it's slow but not THAT slow.  Two days ago, it didn't look like the Guard were needed in the numbers that have been asked for today.  In two more days, those 40,000 guardsmen will be on their way, if not in the city already.  We don't have teleporters or anything, after all.
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: Kazan on September 01, 2005, 10:38:16 pm
yeah.. give the response some time - we didn't think she hit as hard at first.. and she didn't

THEN the levi broke
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: mikhael on September 01, 2005, 10:42:36 pm
Funny, as I recall, we've had the Guard mobilized for a while, along with the reserves and my active duty brothers.
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: Kosh on September 02, 2005, 12:43:23 am
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
I didn't RTFA, but I wonder, did anyone raise the issue of where the National Guard is for this natural disaster? Shouldn't they be in there leading the cleanup and security efforts?




Isn't most of the Guard in Iraq?
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: mikhael on September 02, 2005, 04:13:16 pm
Exactly.
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: deep_eyes on September 02, 2005, 06:33:03 pm
new orlenes use to be nothing but swamp land up until world war 2.
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: Fenrir on September 02, 2005, 10:47:16 pm
What these sorts of articles don't tell you  is that even if Bush had approved money to strenghen the levies, it would have taken years to even start, and then even longer for the process to actually be completed. Bush could have made it his first act as president to approve the project and it wouldn't have made the slightest difference.
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: Kazan on September 02, 2005, 11:01:16 pm
Fenrir as someone who lives in an area that was affected by the Flood of '93 - you don't know **** about levi construction
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: Fenrir on September 02, 2005, 11:04:12 pm
Eh, I suppose I should check up on that again. Perhaps the source I saw that in isn't right.
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: Kazan on September 02, 2005, 11:19:15 pm
had the Corp. of E. program gone through on schuled (ie funding not reduced/pulled) it would have been done

there was a study that warned of this level of disaster in 2001

just like with the "Al Qaeda determined to attack inside the US" it got ignored
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: LtNarol on September 03, 2005, 08:14:07 am
Guys, I think y'all are giving this a rather one-eyed view of hind-sight.  Presidents, Prime Ministers, and self-appointed Dictators recieve assloads of briefings constantly on innumerable issues - they have to choose which ones to deal with, in what order, and to what extent.  Criticizing executive decisions is easy, but making them isn't.

Just for fun, recall those annoyingly long word questions on the SATs, now imagine doing 1 every 10 minutes, or 1 every 5 minutes, for hours at a time.  Would you get all of them right, especially if the answers weren't in the text itself?
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: BlackDove on September 03, 2005, 08:26:57 am
Quote
Originally posted by Kazan
Sorry but he who spouts off their mouth before knowing the geological situation needs to STFU and read something.


The city wasn't below sea level when it was build - several wetlands around it were drained and that lowered the water table causing subsidance [sinkage] so it went beneath water level.  It continues to subside because of this.  

Several FEMA officials have made statements to the effect that they will do not want to allow buildings to be rebuilt in these wetlands so they can be restored, raising the water table and stopping the subsidance


Sorry but nobody needs to read anything in order to know that when people know a storm is coming, you get the hell away from it.

If you need to read something in order to get that, you're an idiot.
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: Kazan on September 03, 2005, 08:43:57 am
BlackDove: was I talking ON THE SUBJECT? noo

Some people were arrogant morons and choose not to evac - some people couldn't evac
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: Mefustae on September 03, 2005, 08:54:16 am
True, a majority of people still in the city when Katrina hit were the Lower Class of New Orleans, and that's pretty damn low. These people didn't have Cars, and weren't really prepared to leave what little they had to the storm, knowing that they would lose everything and not be able to buy it back. So they either stayed where they were, or took shelter in one of the (grossly undermanaged and unplanned) shelters, ie. Astrodome...

...Now BlackDove, let's say your a poorly educated, dirt broke American living in a tinny in New Orleans. Now, you're told a Storm is coming, but you don't have a car, nobody you know has a car, and you have pretty much no way to leave the city other than walking. And several hundred miles to get out of the danger zone is just a little too far for you haul your poor, uneducated, smelly ass. Now, what are you going to do...?
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: BlackDove on September 03, 2005, 11:46:38 am
Quote
Originally posted by Kazan
BlackDove: was I talking ON THE SUBJECT? noo

Some people were arrogant morons and choose not to evac - some people couldn't evac


It's WALKING.

Hell, even I knew it was coming, before it actually wrecked the place.

Go AWAY. WALK AWAY.

How hard is that?
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: Kazan on September 03, 2005, 12:46:52 pm
BlackDove: considering to get out of the "line of danger" you would have to walk SEVERAL HUNDRED MILES: pretty damn hard

some on blackdove let's see you travel several hundred miles on foot in a day... come on let's see it!


Can't be done you say? So what - you said you actually knew it was coming before it wrecked the place [like the rest of us] you should have been able to walk 300 miles in a day..


In Short: you need to GET ****ING REAL
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: StratComm on September 03, 2005, 12:54:15 pm
No, but they could have walked to a designated shelter.  I'm still keenly aware that those shelters were then subsequently all but abandoned and those inside were, in many cases, worse off than those outside.  However, as designated evac points, being in those shelters should rightfully have entitled survivors to first evacuation, as they, by going to the shelters, were placing their lives in the care of "government" before the storm hit.

Subsequently, the handling of the evacuees in the Superdome after the storm is the biggest gripe I've got against the rescue and recovery efforts thus far.  In preperation, there wasn't much else the shelter could have had done to prevent the conditions inside; it was understood that the loss of power and air-conditioning, as well as potable water and toilet facilities, would occur during the hurricane and wouldn't have been restored.  People taking shelter there were told to bring supplies for an extended stay as well, which (in theory) would have prevented mass-starvation.  It's the fact that they were left there practically unattended for almost a week after the storm that was poorly handled.
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: Kazan on September 03, 2005, 01:00:43 pm
The shelters were already all filled over-capacity.
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: StratComm on September 03, 2005, 01:03:07 pm
Those shelters were nowhere close to capacity during the storm.  The Superdome can hold 60k+, it had 10-15k in it while it was being used as a shelter from the weather.  It's only after the storm passed that the numbers there exploded.  Had those people been at the shelters when they were supposed to, the magnitude of the problem would have been more apparent.
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: Kazan on September 03, 2005, 01:04:24 pm
That magnitude of the potential problem was entirely apparently before the storm hit

years before the storm hit
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: StratComm on September 03, 2005, 01:13:42 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kazan
That magnitude of the potential problem was entirely apparently before the storm hit

years before the storm hit


I'm refering strictly to the number of people still trapped within the city.  If you're going to argue with everything no matter what context it was stated in, then you're going to wind up on quite a few ignore lists very soon.

EDIT: realized I was over the page break by default.
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: BlackDove on September 03, 2005, 01:51:13 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kazan
BlackDove: considering to get out of the "line of danger" you would have to walk SEVERAL HUNDRED MILES: pretty damn hard

some on blackdove let's see you travel several hundred miles on foot in a day... come on let's see it!


Can't be done you say? So what - you said you actually knew it was coming before it wrecked the place [like the rest of us] you should have been able to walk 300 miles in a day..


In Short: you need to GET ****ING REAL


I'd at least try.

Get to high ground. Do anything. Take a bus out of town. Hell, even go to a shelter if you can't do anything about mobility.

I bet most people were just simply "hoping for the best" or didn't even care.

They failed.
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: Kazan on September 03, 2005, 02:07:25 pm
Quote
Originally posted by BlackDove


I'd at least try.
 


and get killed by being caught OUT IN THE OPEN during the storm

Quote
Originally posted by BlackDove


Get to high ground. Do anything.


"high ground" can be a bad thing in a hurricane too [exposed]

Quote
Originally posted by BlackDove
Take a bus out of town.



WHAT BUSSES OUT OF TOWN

Are you incapable of understanding my previous point about COULDN'T AFFORD TO EVACUATE and THE GAS STATIONS RAN OUT OF GAS


Quote
Originally posted by BlackDove
Hell, even go to a shelter if you can't do anything about mobility.


Shelters WITHOUT ROOM FOR MORE PEOPLE


Quote
Originally posted by BlackDove
I bet most people were just simply "hoping for the best" or didn't even care.

They failed.


Yeah so you can sit fine and safe like a pompus ass in your own ****ing home and condemn them because they were victims of circumstance

HOW ****ING KIND OF YOU


Where were you in the Flood 1993?  I was 10 - I HELPED FILL SANDBAGS NONE-THE-LESS [helped that I live in Iowa]

Where are you now? ATTACKING PEOPLE WHO WERE VICTIMS OF CIRCUMSTANCE

What am I doing now? Defending these people from the abuse of pompusses *******s and donating to the red cross since I cannot physically help


You are disgusting - you are no better than those people who go out and steal non-essential items and shoot at helicopters

How about we all join in on blaming the victims
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: BlackDove on September 03, 2005, 03:02:10 pm
How about you get off the insane wagon and try to make some sense?

Where I was in 1993... in the midst of a warzone. That kind of turmoil and death you will never see for as long as you live. You're going to talk to me about some flood when you were a kid? Boo hoo. Sandbags sound just awful. I was using sandbags too. Trying to cover my head in a basement from an air raid.

As far as "victims of circumstance" goes - I don't build my house at the epicentre of natural disasters. I've moved more than 30 times in my lifetime, and the place where I live now, was mostly chosen because of its climate and calmness

I'm no better than people who steal non-essential items and shoot at helicopters? Where is the connection between comparing me with them? That desperate to make your point? It shows.

Too bad you don't have a point. Anyone smart enough would find a way to get the hell out of there, or yet better, not be there in the first place.

They got stomped on by nature. Too bad. There were plenty of warnings. This isn't like the situation in Asia 9 months ago. Those people were living on islands, and the destruction just came out of nowhere and killed everyone. Those are the people I feel sorry for.

I agree that people in NO should get all the help they can, and the government should provide it as fast as possible.

But pity? No.
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: Kazan on September 03, 2005, 03:06:51 pm
You are inhuman - go to hell you're on my ignore list
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: BlackDove on September 03, 2005, 03:07:45 pm
Nobody cares.
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: karajorma on September 03, 2005, 04:54:37 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kazan
You are inhuman - go to hell you're on my ignore list


You know Kazan I'm starting to wonder if this is what you see when you log onto HLP. :p

(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/freespace/Misc-Pics/BanEveryone.jpg)

BTW You have no idea how hard it was to find that many posts in a row that didn't have a moderator or admin in them to ruin the joke :)
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: WMCoolmon on September 03, 2005, 04:56:14 pm
So that's what the ignore list does.
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: Kazan on September 03, 2005, 05:18:06 pm
there are two users on my ignore list.. blackdove is a moderator somewhere so i couldn't ignore him.. so i just skip his posts from now on
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: BlackDove on September 03, 2005, 05:20:11 pm
Yeah, god forbid you might read something that opposes your views.

Keep scrollin.
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: Rictor on September 03, 2005, 05:29:48 pm
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma


You know Kazan I'm starting to wonder if this is what you see when you log onto HLP. :p


I see no mention of my name. Your treacherous failure will not be soon forgotten.
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: karajorma on September 03, 2005, 05:32:34 pm
I tried. But all the threads I looked at with you and Kazan going at it had a comment by a moderator or admin ruining the joke :)
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: vyper on September 03, 2005, 05:35:39 pm
You can't ignore an admin? Now there's a kick in the democratic balls... ;)
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: TrashMan on September 03, 2005, 05:47:18 pm
Kajorama - is that YOUR ignore list???? :D
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: karajorma on September 03, 2005, 06:06:29 pm
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
Kajorama - is that YOUR ignore list???? :D


For the minute or so it took me to make the picture yep :)
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: Kosh on September 05, 2005, 03:05:36 am
Whoa, why so many?
Title: Sigh... this is sick (sick as in sad)
Post by: karajorma on September 05, 2005, 03:12:16 am
Cause I have no skill with photoshop so the only way to make the picture was to temporarily ignore everyone who had replied to that thread.

I unignored them afterwards you know :)