Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: StratComm on September 05, 2005, 05:26:07 pm
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This is a bit of an update for the two of you who've been asking where all of those Vasudan ships of mine are; I've been holding them back until I could get a turret for them that I was happy with. Well, I think I've found one.
Energy/beam cannon variant:
(http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/vasturret1a.jpg)
Flak variant:
(http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/vasturret1b.jpg)
Now, as you may or may not know, custom mapping things is not something I have much (read: any) experience with. So, how should I go with this? The one given is the center, which will have a glossy black area representing the turret being manned. Otherwise, brown. With techno-organic things. That's about all I've got right now.
EDIT: I'll be updating these pictures as I fuddle my way through mapping. Any tips (or better yet, someone capable and willing to teach me) would be very welcome ;)
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Make the flak barrels more organic. Right now they look very cartoonish. maybe something stubbier, fatter and with a more narrow aperture, so it looks 'grown'.
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nice..I find this concpet as a vasudan turret better however:
(http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/9652/vasturret9qg.th.jpg) (http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vasturret9qg.jpg)
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Those don't look particularly Vasudan.
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I've never been a fan of vertically-displaced barrels in general unless their mechanism for rotation makes sense, but in Freespace they also tend to make the turrets aim in funny directions. The biggest problem though is that at most only one of those turrets will actually rotate about its base, whereas using the normal system they all do. Nevermind that Trashman's particular concept has absolutely no capability for elevation in any logical manner. It might work pretty well for a Vasudan tank, but on a Freespace ship it just won't do.
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Someone needs to make a Vasudan tank.
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Talk to Twisted Infinities. And give them a swift kick in the rear and tell them to hurry up while you're at it.
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:nervous:
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:shaking:
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Originally posted by StratComm
Nevermind that Trashman's particular concept has absolutely no capability for elevation in any logical manner. It might work pretty well for a Vasudan tank, but on a Freespace ship it just won't do.
Actually it elivates quite well, thank you..
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Still not very interesting though. Strats got a much more interesting shape.
I don't much like the current barrels he's using, but they're easily changed and improved upon. :)
Strat, do you think you could do something along the lines of this (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Misc/VasTurret1.jpg) or this:
====<> (think stargate staff weapon)
for the barrels? Either of those shapes or something like them is the main thing this'un really needs to look complete and all vasudany. :)
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Originally posted by Vasudan Admiral
Still not very interesting though. Strats got a much more interesting shape.
I don't much like the current barrels he's using, but they're easily changed and improved upon. :)
Strat, do you think you could do something along the lines of this (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Misc/VasTurret1.jpg) or this:
====<> (think stargate staff weapon)
for the barrels? Either of those shapes or something like them is the main thing this'un really needs to look complete and all vasudany. :)
I've already tweaked them a little bit to be more like the staff weapon you mentioned, but I get the feeling that's not what you have in mind exactly. I may take a look at the other design you posted at some point, though I'm leaning toward that being too terran.
Originally posted by TrashMan
Actually it elivates quite well, thank you..
I'll believe that when I see it. Sure, you can raise the barrels up to vertical, but the way they elevate just wouldn't make sense. Where's the axis of rotation? Because no matter where you've put it, at least one of the barrels works incorrectly. Never mind that this particular turret not only makes use of the turret body intersection prevelant on so many of the FS turrets, it does so on a shape that will make that blindingly obvious. I know there is a certain element of narcicism involved with one's own models, but that one really needs some rethinking and to deny that shows that you either haven't tried it or haven't thought about it. Don't get me wrong, your turret, while simplistic, isn't bad. It's not particularly suited to Vasudan hulls, for one thing, because it's depth is very shallow, and it's got those nagging mechanical issues with the barrels that Freespace simply cannot resolve but the shape in depressed position is aesthetically pleasing. Were I doing something for an animation in Max, I might consider such a design; of course Max has much more flexability in its animation controls and so I could actually get away with it. For FS though it's a no-go.
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Hmm, you may be right about them not looking too vasudan:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Misc/StratTurret.jpg)
Bleh to both of them. :\ (though the second shape does sorta match the turrets style more closely - perhaps something more round?)
Ah well, my sugestion is now changed to 'keep experimenting until it looks cool and deadly.' :D
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i like the very first one you made, the topmost pic
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Originally posted by StratComm
I'll believe that when I see it. Sure, you can raise the barrels up to vertical, but the way they elevate just wouldn't make sense. Where's the axis of rotation? Because no matter where you've put it, at least one of the barrels works incorrectly. Never mind that this particular turret not only makes use of the turret body intersection prevelant on so many of the FS turrets, it does so on a shape that will make that blindingly obvious. I know there is a certain element of narcicism involved with one's own models, but that one really needs some rethinking and to deny that shows that you either haven't tried it or haven't thought about it. Don't get me wrong, your turret, while simplistic, isn't bad. It's not particularly suited to Vasudan hulls, for one thing, because it's depth is very shallow, and it's got those nagging mechanical issues with the barrels that Freespace simply cannot resolve but the shape in depressed position is aesthetically pleasing. Were I doing something for an animation in Max, I might consider such a design; of course Max has much more flexability in its animation controls and so I could actually get away with it. For FS though it's a no-go.
Actually, the model is not doe yet.. I planned to change the rear aned and tom make a center indent there the barrels are... and actually i'ts one barrel with two endings, so the rotation actually makes sense:d
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The actual turret shape is quite nice and all, but have you thought about reducing the barrels of the weapons to "blister" style like the turrets themselves. More of a formed blob on the front of the turret than an actual barrel like the GTA might use.
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That's sort of what the first pic is supposed to be. Of course it's not a "formed blob" because of the rotational issues, but it's certainly not your conventional multipart. The flak variant is really more of an afterthought.
Originally posted by TrashMan
Actually, the model is not doe yet.. I planned to change the rear aned and tom make a center indent there the barrels are... and actually i'ts one barrel with two endings, so the rotation actually makes sense:d
Of course you aren't done yet. But I stand by the two vertical barrels = poor rotation idealolgy, regardless of whether it's actually 2 barrels or "one barrel with two ends", whatever that means.
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would a beam turret have a gunner. wouldn't he get blinded every time he let rip ?
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Originally posted by Roanoke
would a beam turret have a gunner. wouldn't he get blinded every time he let rip ?
If there was a gunner, I'd imagine they'd be sitting in the middle of the ship at a tactical station with maybe a camera and a 3d-like radar to aim at.
Albeit i'm not sure individual control would be better than some form of AI; the gunners (ese?) role would IMO be more in terms of maintaining the weapons; observing power & heat levels, tweaking target priorities, etc rather than actually manually aiming & firing it.
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Originally posted by StratComm
That's sort of what the first pic is supposed to be. Of course it's not a "formed blob" because of the rotational issues,
Granted the turret must rotate on the X axis to face what it's firing at. But you could make the assumption as far as elevation goes that this is taken care of within the ship itself. Therefore a simple blob of some sort would be as effective as a large barrel.
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The gunner pod is there for looks, really. Though having an onboard gunner would be useful if the ship's internal comms go down, I'd be under the assumption that all firing controls would be slaved to a console on the bridge. Specifically, to quote the Psamtik's captain, Gunnery Control.
Originally posted by Kalfireth
Granted the turret must rotate on the X axis to face what it's firing at. But you could make the assumption as far as elevation goes that this is taken care of within the ship itself. Therefore a simple blob of some sort would be as effective as a large barrel.
True. I've actually tried a comple of designs along those lines. I felt that this turret needed something to visually track, and while I gave the flak variant the traditional big barrels I did so only because I had the UV space left on the map to fit it in. I don't have any applications planned for the long-barrelled version at the moment. The predominant case of these guns will be pod-barrel version.
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Gunnery Control may well be something like Gun Plot or a director station, however. (Personally that makes the most sense to me.) The mounts could well still be individually manned, particularly the smaller defensive ones. While most often slaved to the director, they would still have a crew to monitor the gun and ensure everything works properly...or fire in local control in the event of damage to the director.
Presumably this is what happens following the destruction of a capital craft's weapons subsystem. The accuracy and ROF are slowed because the mounts are firing in local control. It's a fairly close approximation of reality.
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This is the currrent vasudan turret of mine:
(http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/2448/vasturret0pm.th.jpg) (http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vasturret0pm.jpg)
and this is a very big one used on a older model of mine:
(http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/2107/vasturret22uj.th.jpg) (http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vasturret22uj.jpg)
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Ah, now that's getting somewhere with a concept. It's still not Vasudan at all IMHO, but at least it looks like less of a ball-and-stick and more like a turret. I'm still not liking the double barrels, even if they are connected, because they still translate when they elevate.
Now the older one, while not at all pertinent to this discussion, I'm assuming is being used to show me that two barrels can be stacked vertically and still rotate in a sane manner. However, what you're really showing is a case where the entire turret (as in the thing the barrels mount on or protrude from) rotates up and down. That's a very different construction. And you really need a better texture job (one that doesn't use 6 textures for one turret) for that one.
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actually, it's 2-3 textures I belive...
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I count at least three, just on the barrels. It may only have 3 overall, but each subobject uses them all. Not that it would have been a concern if they are as old as you say they are, as the HTL texture-priority concerns are relatively recent.