Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: TrashMan on September 16, 2005, 04:37:34 am

Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: TrashMan on September 16, 2005, 04:37:34 am
And the modding spree continues with the BETA of my Typhoon:

(http://img276.imageshack.us/img276/346/screen00774aa.th.jpg) (http://img276.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screen00774aa.jpg)
EAT THIS shivan tard!

(http://img276.imageshack.us/img276/4899/screen00756oc.th.jpg) (http://img276.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screen00756oc.jpg)
Oh Crap!.. at least I took him with me

(http://img276.imageshack.us/img276/3020/screen00743hd.th.jpg) (http://img276.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screen00743hd.jpg)
close up at the beam turret (up) and missile launcher (down)

Available at Hades Combine:D
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: Fineus on September 16, 2005, 05:03:58 am
A lesson in screenshots... if you're showing off a new model, it helps if people can actually see the model :p
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: TrashMan on September 16, 2005, 05:14:43 am
Better?

(http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/9761/typhoon39yw.th.jpg) (http://img294.imageshack.us/my.php?image=typhoon39yw.jpg)
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: Mefustae on September 16, 2005, 05:55:59 am
Hmmm, with your additions and highlights, the Typhon actually now looks Vasudan...and yet, I can still see why Terran Engineers laughed at it...:p
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: mikhael on September 16, 2005, 07:20:48 am
You've ruined one of my two favorite Vasudan ships. :(
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: aldo_14 on September 16, 2005, 08:39:59 am
You should do a hi-poly model based directly off the Volition high-detail one you can (briefly) see in the Silent Thread shivan-on-fighter animation.
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: Trivial Psychic on September 16, 2005, 09:21:33 am
There's an even higher detailed concept image, as part of the box art for FS1.  Its a side profile shot.
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: BlackDove on September 16, 2005, 09:24:27 am
I have it. Can't scan it for ya though.
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: Turambar on September 16, 2005, 10:26:53 am
it still just looks like a brown lump with lights on it to me
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: Depth_Charge on September 16, 2005, 11:51:19 am
To tell you the truth, that looks real good.....its even bigger then the orginal.............great job.
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: Ulala on September 16, 2005, 12:33:12 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Turambar
it still just looks like a brown lump with lights on it to me


Hence why I never cared for the Typhon, nor its textures.
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: TrashMan on September 16, 2005, 12:58:44 pm
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
You've ruined one of my two favorite Vasudan ships. :(


Ermmm.... didn't you notice the two words in the title?

Typhoon, NOT Typhon - a different ship
And Beta, as in not 100% done

granted, with jsut a few relativly simple modifications (moving vertex and edges around) one could make a normal Typhon easily. If anyone wants to go ahead, I don't mind..

The hull for this one has allmost 2000 polys and it's a lot smoother then the original, but making vasuidan ships look more detailed is an unrewarding job...
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: Raptor on September 16, 2005, 01:38:36 pm
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan


Ermmm.... didn't you notice the two words in the title?

Typhoon, NOT Typhon - a different ship
And Beta, as in not 100% done

granted, with jsut a few relativly simple modifications (moving vertex and edges around) one could make a normal Typhon easily. If anyone wants to go ahead, I don't mind..


What's the differance then?

About the only thing I could sort of see was that this has more turrets.  Which the Typhon needed anyway IMHO.
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: aldo_14 on September 16, 2005, 01:46:54 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Raptor


What's the differance then?

About the only thing I could sort of see was that this has more turrets.  Which the Typhon needed anyway IMHO.
 


It has a grey indent on the 'arms', I think a recess, and 2 boxy docking bays on the underside.  Oh, and I think the dock texture is different for some reason (particularly odd as the old Typhon used a good dock texture).
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: StratComm on September 16, 2005, 02:30:35 pm
"Typhoon" = (Typhon+random extrusions)*Typhon_mapping--

Seriously, it's an interesting take on a typhon variant, which is legitimate, but the mapping sucks and a typhon Mk.II doesn't fit with the canonical design limitations of the typhons themselves (why make one with a bigger fighterbay if the limitations on them in FS2 were their reactors?).  I can live with that being fixed, sure.  But my biggest concern is actually that you're showing off a planar-mapped model with all of the texturing defects that come with that (sure, some will say who cares if it's just a brown lump with lights) but I really find the stretched and aliased textures on near-vertical faces to detract greatly from the overall design.
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: Galemp on September 16, 2005, 02:53:10 pm
It's waaaaay too similar to the Typhon, in shape, size, color and name. For heaven's sake, Trashman, try to give it some individual character instead of just pushing verts around and screwing up the mapping.

Oh, and if you're taking screenshots, put some lighting in there. For sheezy.
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: TrashMan on September 16, 2005, 03:32:32 pm
I started making a higher-poly Typhon, but decided to do this instead. Yes, it was ment to look like a Typhon, allthogh the differences are greater then it appears at first. I have an old comparison pic (the models is less detailed in this pic)
(http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/6011/Typhoon2.th.jpg) (http://img48.imageshack.us/my.php?image=Typhoon2.jpg)


And yes, it's beta since the mapping isn't complete - the vertica lfaces bearing witnes to that.
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: aldo_14 on September 16, 2005, 05:22:36 pm
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
I started making a higher-poly Typhon, but decided to do this instead. Yes, it was ment to look like a Typhon, allthogh the differences are greater then it appears at first. I have an old comparison pic (the models is less detailed in this pic)
(http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/6011/Typhoon2.th.jpg) (http://img48.imageshack.us/my.php?image=Typhoon2.jpg)


And yes, it's beta since the mapping isn't complete - the vertica lfaces bearing witnes to that.


If you're model is the selected (white outline) one; it doesn't look as good.  There's not the same shape variation; it's very flat and looks less alien as a result, whereas the Typhon (despite poly restrictions) manages to have a number of sweeps and bulges that make it look more organic & alien.  Particularly on the side & frontal view.

I think I made the same mistake when I modelled a ship based off the Typhon; IMO it's better to do something that varies significantly yet shares a feel, than use the same base design with an extra spike or indent here and there.
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: Trivial Psychic on September 16, 2005, 10:37:37 pm
Here's a better comparisson shot, as you can see the size difference as well.

(http://www3.sympatico.ca/daniel.topps/TyphoonCompare.jpg)

I do think however, that there needs to be some breakup of the base texture for the bridge area, as with the Typhon.
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: BlackDove on September 16, 2005, 10:48:36 pm
.....it's exactly the same thing with a few minor details changed.

Why?
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: mikhael on September 16, 2005, 11:24:45 pm
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan


Ermmm.... didn't you notice the two words in the title?

Typhoon, NOT Typhon - a different ship
And Beta, as in not 100% done

granted, with jsut a few relativly simple modifications (moving vertex and edges around) one could make a normal Typhon easily. If anyone wants to go ahead, I don't mind..

The hull for this one has allmost 2000 polys and it's a lot smoother then the original, but making vasuidan ships look more detailed is an unrewarding job...


Yes, I noticed them. I, however, chose the evidence of my eyes: its like the Trashman version of the Typhon. And I like it less than I do the original. My comment stands.
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: StratComm on September 17, 2005, 12:13:30 am
What I find interesting is that, after seeing the true comparison shots, this model is actually substantially less-detailed than the Typhon.  For all of the extra polys, the basic alienness that the original design excelled at is lost.  Despite it's lack of polys, the original Typhon was a chiseled masterpiece.  But now much of that detail has been lost in the blob-smoothing job that's been done.  The second hanger is novel.  Increasing the deck guns is useful, provided they aren't overpowered.  But there was no reason to alter the nose profile, no reason to remove the vertical variation, and no reason to fatten the arm extrusions.  Most importantly and more characteristicly, there was no reason to make it bigger.  And there was NEVER any pretense to pretend that this is a different design; it's just a Typhon without the typhon-ness.
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: TrashMan on September 17, 2005, 06:39:34 am
@Aldo - what looks alien and what looks not is a very subjective matter. To me it looks more alien.

@Trivial Psychic - good catch.
 Most ofd the texturing is shabby, and that's why I asked if anyone would be willing to help me texture it. If on one takes my offer I'll have to try and do it myself, but I'm not that good when it comes to texturing smooth, aliens stuff....

Quote
by BlackDove

.....it's exactly the same thing with a few minor details changed.

Why?


couse I wanted it that way

Quote

What I find interesting is that, after seeing the true comparison shots, this model is actually substantially less-detailed than the Typhon. For all of the extra polys, the basic alienness that the original design excelled at is lost. Despite it's lack of polys, the original Typhon was a chiseled masterpiece. But now much of that detail has been lost in the blob-smoothing job that's been done. The second hanger is novel. Increasing the deck guns is useful, provided they aren't overpowered. But there was no reason to alter the nose profile, no reason to remove the vertical variation, and no reason to fatten the arm extrusions. Most importantly and more characteristicly, there was no reason to make it bigger. And there was NEVER any pretense to pretend that this is a different design; it's just a Typhon without the typhon-ness.


I say again - alienness is subjective, and it's not less detaield. If you like hte original Typhon so much better , here, use my mesh and edit to to turn into the normal typhon. You have my blessing.
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: StratComm on September 17, 2005, 08:07:19 am
I'll grant that alienness is, to a degree, subjective.  But level of detail is not.  And your mesh simply is less detailed.  I actually (as usual) still have no idea where you put all of those polys, since the only areas I can see with distinctly more are the engine blocks, the nose "claw", the fighterbays and the arms and those all manage to look less integrated with the ship than they were on the original model.

Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
If you like hte original Typhon so much better , here, use my mesh and edit to to turn into the normal typhon. You have my blessing.


But why would I use what I consider an inferior model to start from?  Especially one that, for all of its similarities, would be a real pain to make match (cough... side profile).  Were I to do a HTL Typhon, I'd start with the original or from scratch.  There's really no other way to do it.
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: Unknown Target on September 17, 2005, 08:18:32 am
The very least you could do is change it from "Typhoon" to something else. "Typhoon" is a common typo of the correct ship name, "Typhon".
And anyway, from the top it looks like you stretched the old one, removed the bridges, and smoothed the arms.
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: IceFire on September 17, 2005, 08:36:18 am
I applaud all modeling attempts...seeing as they are better than my borg cube attempt with no UV mapping...but if we're going to be doing high poly versions of FS1 and FS2 ships...my feeling is that they have to match the old one almost exactly.  The difference of course being the additional details (greebling :D) and ability to model everything with better details.  But the outline of the ship should remain essentially unchanged.

This isn't too much to ask really.  I know some guys doing work for WWII aviation stuff and they produce to accurate blueprints.  We've not got that kind of constricted development here...just produce based on what we've got.
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: Wanderer on September 17, 2005, 12:02:37 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Unknown Target
The very least you could do is change it from "Typhoon" to something else. "Typhoon" is a common typo of the correct ship name, "Typhon".
And anyway, from the top it looks like you stretched the old one, removed the bridges, and smoothed the arms.


It is big and nasty so how about... Typhoid! :lol:
 
Close to the Typhon but far enough from it to be recognized.

Just kidding.

Typhon seems (from wiki) also to have been a offspring of the Gaia and Tartarus so perhaps a search in mythology close to these themes? Something like Echidna ("Mother of All Monsters") the other offspring of Gaia and also Typhons mate. Check wiki or some other resource for these.

Typhoon is really too close to the name Typhon, and does it have anything to do with mythology?
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: aldo_14 on September 17, 2005, 12:23:14 pm
Typhon is apparently the Greek form of Set/Seth.
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: TrashMan on September 17, 2005, 06:42:03 pm
Quote
Originally posted by StratComm
I'll grant that alienness is, to a degree, subjective.  But level of detail is not.  And your mesh simply is less detailed.  I actually (as usual) still have no idea where you put all of those polys, since the only areas I can see with distinctly more are the engine blocks, the nose "claw", the fighterbays and the arms and those all manage to look less integrated with the ship than they were on the original model.


the polys went to smoothing, where else? A clean render with no textures of both ships will show you just how big a difference there is...
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: aldo_14 on September 17, 2005, 07:11:20 pm
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan


the polys went to smoothing, where else? A clean render with no textures of both ships will show you just how big a difference there is...


The wireframe doesnt.  What's the actual difference in count; I would guess maybe 50% more polys (on the main hull)?  Of course, the problem with flat, bland shapes is that they tend to look simple; to me the best bit of the Typhon was that it looked higher detail than it was.
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: TrashMan on September 18, 2005, 08:05:42 am
that's a OLD render with the old wireframe.

tehy typhon now looks far worse then it did in retail becouse of shinemaps and shadow casting, which reveal how truly low-poly the hul was - you can see the trinagles it's formed of...

Here's one screene I had lying around that shows part of hte issue...
(http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/8921/camps56lg.th.jpg) (http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=camps56lg.jpg)
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: aldo_14 on September 18, 2005, 09:48:15 am
That's partly because the shading on the Typon is screwed up; uniform 45 degree would fix a great deal of that, particularly shading.
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: TrashMan on September 18, 2005, 05:13:55 pm
I think this image sums it nicely:
(http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/4857/comparison3ei.th.jpg) (http://img22.imageshack.us/my.php?image=comparison3ei.jpg)
See how smoother mine is?
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: StratComm on September 18, 2005, 05:39:43 pm
But again, most of that could be fixed by changing the smoothing angles on the old typhon without messing with its geometry.  And you're not going to like this, but that shot shows much more clearly that yours lacks the detail of the original.
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: TrashMan on September 18, 2005, 05:55:59 pm
Think what you wish..

Unless you haven't figured it by now there are 2-3 people on this board who's oppinion I mostly ignore....
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: aldo_14 on September 18, 2005, 05:58:04 pm
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
Think what you wish..

Unless you haven't figured it by now there are 2-3 people on this board who's oppinion I mostly ignore....



Because you can't handle any form of informed criticism.  That's your problem, not mine, and I think this illustrates exactly why.
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: TrashMan on September 18, 2005, 07:02:12 pm
No, it's becose I can't rember those 2-3 people EVER liking anything I did (and  I've been here a lot and did a lot).

So when I get the feeling that someone is allways bashing my work, regardless of what I do I mostly ignore them (not in teh literal meaning - I allways read what they have to say  as even a broken clock is right two times a day, but when I feel the critics are misplaced or aren't constructive - I simply purge them from my memory)
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: StratComm on September 18, 2005, 07:17:03 pm
I know I'm the "2-3 people" that you're refering to.  But I know you have that perception because you tend to ignore the positive and read only the negative out of those posts.  And because you don't acknowledge the criticisms or start making excuses as to why it's "better that way" (or worse yet, "perfect" as it is) we tend to dwell on them to get it through to you that we have a point.  I'll be honest, I find your model style incredibly bland, but that's a personal preference that has nothing to do with the arguments I make about most things here.  And ultimately, the purpose of having these little discussions is to try to pass on to you some of the experience that I have accrued over the years which I do not see present in any of your models to date.  It's personal in the sense that you do have potential and a good creative eye, it's just often done partly and then rushed out the door.

Specifically the criticism here is don't try to pass of as a new ship something that is actually a poor knock-off of a :v: original.  You said it was originally a HTL revamp of the Typhon, which I not only accept, I applaud.  But the key to making a HTL upgrade is to make the new model look better than the old while still remaining true to its roots, which I believe you have wholeheartedly failed at here.  Sometimes a project turns out as something not worth persuing.  Recognising that and turning toward other endeavors is a vital skill to have.
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: mikhael on September 18, 2005, 10:56:50 pm
I think it works out to you, Aldo and me, Strat. :D

I consider it good company. ;)
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: Gregster2k on September 19, 2005, 01:00:13 am
*points a finger at Stratcomm*

VARIETY IS GOOD. YOU ARE KILLING VARIETY.

I don't care if someone takes a Hercules and just adds a new fin to it and calls it a new ship, ITS VARIETY. And I like variety in any form because variety is fun. Variety keeps things interesting.

That said, stop knocking on this beautiful thing. And as for the name of it, stop arguing, it's a Typhon FROM AN ALTERNATE REALITY. There you go, arguing solved. Or its the Hammer of Light's version of a Typhon. WHO CARES WHAT IT IS IF ITS COOL?! GAD!
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: StratComm on September 19, 2005, 01:14:52 am
Now see, I have the opposite take on that.  Having only one completed version of a HTL ship is definitely the way to go.  I don't want to have to chase down the proper model for each and every campaign that I play, nor do I want them morphing from one campaign to the next.  My only gripe with GE's Orion, for instance, was that it used a very not-fitting texture (the cargo/cruiser tile) but now that it's been replaced by a version that matches in color I firmly believe it should be the official one.  The same goes with any ship.  And having two look-alike ships in the fleet is completely unnecessary (thank Lightspeed for differentiating between the Fenris/Leviathan and Cain/Lilith) so unless you intend to replace a stock "low poly" mesh with yours don't make them look the same.  I'll stand pretty firmly by that.  Were this "Typhoon" a Typhon with improved geometry but still a Typhon, then the same would apply here.  But we don't really need one that's just a tweak different but no better.
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: Gregster2k on September 19, 2005, 01:24:08 am
No matter how "good" anyone HTLs the Orion, Typhon, ANYTHING, SOMEONE will find something wrong with it and the community will be clawing each other's throats out over it. Better sometimes to allow people to pick and choose what they want than give them a compromise they don't entirely like.
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: TrashMan on September 19, 2005, 06:31:04 am
Stratt Comm, don't get the wrong impression here. I might be fast on the keyboard, but I guess that's mostly my temperamtent (I'm a dalmatian...)

Anway, you are one of the best modelers out here and I do have great respect for you and your work and I do take note of what you say (of what anyone sez actually). But there are instances where our oppinions clash..
Many things such as design, use of detail and similiar things are debatable and are based on ones' experiences and preferences..
And when such things happen I tend to value my own oppinnion above yours or anyone elses for that matter...which is quite normal naturally..
Or would you scrap a ship you spent a lot of time working on and you really like just becouse I said it's not worth a dime?

To you this BETA (I can't stress this fact enough) is a dismal faliure and something that should never have been done in the first place. To me it is not - I need a typhon sucesor for Chapter 3 of my campaign to replace the old one (thus there won't be 2 similar ships in the fleet).

that siad, if you think you can improve it I ask you to try. I never hid the fact that I'm not yet as good with shivan and vasudan models as I am with terran ones and any help in finishing this thing is welecomed.
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: aldo_14 on September 19, 2005, 06:58:55 am
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
No, it's becose I can't rember those 2-3 people EVER liking anything I did (and  I've been here a lot and did a lot).

So when I get the feeling that someone is allways bashing my work, regardless of what I do I mostly ignore them (not in teh literal meaning - I allways read what they have to say  as even a broken clock is right two times a day, but when I feel the critics are misplaced or aren't constructive - I simply purge them from my memory)


I don't like anything I've ever done, let alone you or anyone elses' work.  The reason I'm critical, is I know how helpful that - externally or internally - is to the learning process.

With the bulk of your designs, yes, I find them bland, derivative, unoriginal and repretively mapped.  But I don't say so for the most part, as they're your own perosnal designs.  However, when it comes to a design line based off of the Volition canon, then I think everyone here can make fair judgement.

 Your Typhoon takes the distinguishing features and 'alienness' of the Typhons' design - and smoothes over it, losing a lot what made the Typhon memorable in the first place. And as such it exists in some sort of purgatory between originality  - which it plainly isn't - and actually looking like either the Typhon or a ship in the same design scheme.

 I've done the same; one of my dumped models was more or less a Typhon with 4 rather than 2 arms (although still more differentiated from this)

So I feel I can fairly cast judgement based upon my own opinions.
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: Black Wolf on September 19, 2005, 08:27:57 am
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
(I'm a dalmatian...)


What the...
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: aldo_14 on September 19, 2005, 08:33:58 am
Quote
Originally posted by Black Wolf


What the...


Veers between black and white, I presume.
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: karajorma on September 19, 2005, 08:56:31 am
I took it to mean that he spent ages licking his balls and hanging around with firemen :p
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: Galemp on September 19, 2005, 09:03:56 am
(http://www.dalmatiancoast.com/graphics/3Dmap-croatia.JPG)

Uh, yeah. I think the point of all this discussion, Trashie, is that your model is less detailed than the original while taking up more polies and looking not as good, while still being too similar to tell the difference between the Typhoon and Typhon.

We can't see why anyone would choose your model over the Volition one except that it's different, and there's already a wealth of Vasudan destroyers that are not only different, but creatively designed and well crafted. If you can bring that model up to par with the offical version and make it distinct enough that we can accept it as a new class, then fine. If you want to use if in your campaign as-is and don't give a hoot about our opinions, that's your opinion.

But if we're telling you what that we don't like your model and tell you why, and what you could do to fix it, that's feedback and constructive criticism, and is the main reason why this board exists. If it's a BETA then obviously you feel it's unfinished and needs some work; that's why I posted my heavy cruiser and asked for help.

We don't have to like it, but we experienced modelers (like me, Aldo, Nico, Stratt and others) are somewhat demanding of ourselves. Aldo 'dumps' models better than most of us will make in our careers, and Nico's been known to throw out weeks of texturing work because he wasn't satisfied with it. Me, I take my crappy models and donate them to Inferno. :D If you like your model then use it, but heed our comments. You're one of the most productive modelers on the boards, TrashMan, and nobody can complain about that.

Oh, and Gregster: Chill out. We're not opposed to Variety, we're opposed to lots of work going into something not many people are going to think is worth downloading. We're not discouraging anyone from making a reskin of a ship and calling it new; some really great mods have been done that way. But we like to see creativity and when something's still in the oven, we like to give feedback so it can still be worked on before all the effort goes into making it gameworthy.
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: TrashMan on September 19, 2005, 03:55:06 pm
a) it's not a re-skin or a edit of hte original. It's made from scratch.

b)have you ever tried making a higher-poly typhon? It's a higly unrewarding model, for regardless of how many polys you throw at it it will only look smoother and not more detailed. A orion has lot's of place for grebbling, but vasudan designes - especialyl the typhoon - has place for none. The only place where you could possibly make good show of extra polies is the bridge and the engines. I could have made a lot of indents and some other crazy stuff (like on the Sobeks front) but if I did that there would probably be a horde of forumites with pitchforks and torches after me. :D

And what about hte constructive part? All I heard so far is "scrap it" or "make it more typhon-like" and that isn't realyl constructive. To me it looks typhon-like. Maby I'm missing something but you should explain to me the changes you would like me to make better...

Oh, juszt becouse I specificly said that I respect StrattComm doesn't mean i don't respect any of you you guys. Also's reputation is well known as is yours...
Erm..to tell the truth I can hardly recall any of Mik's models 8perhaps I'm mixing some of them) but hte 2-3 I can were superb...

EDIT - dalmatian - native inhabitant of the croatian coastline. Laid back and calm lifestyle, but one heck of a temperamet...
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: Galemp on September 19, 2005, 04:12:35 pm
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
b)have you ever tried making a higher-poly typhon? It's a higly unrewarding model, for regardless of how many polys you throw at it it will only look smoother and not more detailed. A orion has lot's of place for grebbling, but vasudan designes - especialyl the typhoon - has place for none. The only place where you could possibly make good show of extra polies is the bridge and the engines. I could have made a lot of indents and some other crazy stuff (like on the Sobeks front) but if I did that there would probably be a horde of forumites with pitchforks and torches after me. :D


I've been considering some techniques, as a matter of fact. I may actually try them out now that the issue's come up.

I'd also like to compliment you on your miner. That's a great job you've done; it looks like a real spaceship without really repeating itself. The way you have the tubes/brackets attached to the containers is really great, and you've used the tile textures extremely effectively on the geometry. :yes::yes2: on that ship, mate.
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: StratComm on September 19, 2005, 04:12:41 pm
If you'll recall, I do have pretty good experience with medium-poly Vasudan ships.  If done properly, the Typhon could be VERY rewarding; it's doing it well that's the trouble.  I've got some ideas on how it could be done, but lack the time to try to take you up on that challenge.

Anyway, the point wouldn't be to add crazy indents or random stuff that wasn't there before.  The Orion is a bit of an exception since it has textures that insinuate random greebling everywhere (and Bob does that particularly well) but overall you just want to accentuate the detail that's already in the model.  The HTL fighters are the best examples; look closely at Raa's Ares or Serepis, or his high-poly Sobek, or at Nico's Perseus.  Those models added nothing to the original that wasn't there before (albeit in textures only) and that's the true definition of making a high-poly model.  There are exceptions; the Hecate is to a degree as its texturing is criminally non-descript, but that's where the ability to take a little liberty with the design comes in.  With the Typhon, the best place to start adding detail would be the engine pods and fins, the bridge, the fighterbay (maybe), and the fins on the top and bottom.  And smoothing the hull of course, but that has to be done without changing its profile more than the slightest bit.  That, along with dropping the few potential points of detail that were in the original Typhon, is why I personally am not fond of your version of it
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: WeatherOp on September 19, 2005, 05:02:48 pm
Quote
Originally posted by StratComm
\
Anyway, th'point wouldn't be t'add crazy indents or random stuff that wasn't thar before.  The Orion be a bit o' an exception since it has textures that insinuate random greeblin' everywhere (and Bob does that particularly well) but overall ye just want t'accentuate th'detail that's already in th'model.  The HTL fighters are th'best examples; look closely at Raa's Ares or Serepis, or his high-poly Sobek, or at Nico's Perseus.  Those models added nothin' t'the original that wasn't thar before (albeit in textures only) an' that's th'true definition o' makin' a high-poly model.\



Ohhhh......;)
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: TrashMan on September 19, 2005, 05:29:42 pm
Right Strattie my boy..I'll give it try.. I was thingking on working on the engines and the bridge some more anywayz...

But should I go after turning into a normal typhon, or continuning with this, or make 2 version and do both?
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: StratComm on September 19, 2005, 06:10:42 pm
If you can fix the side profile, I'd strongly encourage you to try your hand at proper HTL treatment.  However, you'd have to downgrade the turret count back to standard if you want it to ever see wide use.  For what you want to use it for, I'd fix the side profile to re-introduce the vertical variation anyway.  It's really got the most potential as a carrier variant of the Typhon hull, if you make enough changes to properly preserve the lineage but still want the proportions bigger or different or want the turret count higher, that will allow you plenty of compromise.  I'm actually strongly considering giving the Typhon a go for HTL-izing sometime anyway, and I'd hate to have truely duplicated work.
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: Woolie Wool on September 20, 2005, 01:28:58 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Trivial Psychic
There's an even higher detailed concept image, as part of the box art for FS1.  Its a side profile shot.

That's a retexturing of the original model.
Title: Typhoon Beta
Post by: Trivial Psychic on September 20, 2005, 08:25:08 pm
Maybe so, but it provides more details that a modeler can draw on, rather than trying to draw them out of the existing tiled textures.