Hard Light Productions Forums

Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Annorax on September 20, 2005, 02:55:57 am

Title: Freebie alert
Post by: Annorax on September 20, 2005, 02:55:57 am
http://www.opera.com

As of today, Opera is now free. No more $40, no more registration codes, no more ugly ads.

Anyone who still uses IE after seeing this will be fed to Carl (or another available Shivan). :)
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: WMCoolmon on September 20, 2005, 03:07:09 am
Oops, too late. Hooked on Firefox. :)
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: Fury on September 20, 2005, 04:19:11 am
Good stuff, I registered Opera about six months back when I found it to be much better to my tastes than Firefox.
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: kode on September 20, 2005, 05:03:08 am
nice.

not that I didn't already use opera for all my pr0n browsing needs...
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: SadisticSid on September 20, 2005, 05:49:10 am
I thought they might do this when they gave out free registration codes a few weeks ago. Hopefully this won't mean a slowdown on development though.
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: Kosh on September 20, 2005, 06:20:20 am
So, if it free how will they support themselves?
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: kode on September 20, 2005, 07:02:04 am
Quote
Originally posted by Kosh
So, an it free how will they support themselves?


sellin' support or something, I guess.
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: Col. Fishguts on September 20, 2005, 07:06:38 am
Quote
Originally posted by WMCoolmon
Oops, too late. Hooked on Firefox. :)


ditto

I was a Opera user for several years, but since my last Windows re-install I'm hooked on the Firefox/Thuinderbird combo.
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: CP5670 on September 20, 2005, 08:25:42 am
Any equivalent o' adblock in this? That be th'reason why Firefox be so great.
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: kode on September 20, 2005, 08:48:29 am
Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
Any equivalent o' adblock in this? That be th'reason why Firefox be so great.


not really, but it's about 200 times faster than firefox ever will be.
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: Kamikaze on September 20, 2005, 08:57:37 am
Quote
Originally posted by Col. Fishguts

I was a Opera user for several years, but since me last Windows re-install I'm hooked on th'Firefox/Thuinderbird combo.


My situation is kinda like that. I was an Opera user a while back (was using versions 5 and 6 IIRC) then switched to Firebird (around 0.6 I think). Then I switched back to Opera again because Firefox has performance issues.
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: Mongoose on September 20, 2005, 10:41:48 am
I'm happy with Firefox myself, but that's good news nontheless. :)

P.S. For those of you experiencing Firefox performance issues, have you ever tried these tweaks (http://www.descentbb.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=5047)?  Once I applied them, it really sped up.
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: Kamikaze on September 20, 2005, 10:55:53 am
By performance I mean the memory leaks, not rendering speed. And yes, I have tried those configuration tweaks. Opera is still faster.
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: CP5670 on September 20, 2005, 11:36:41 am
Quote
not really, but it's about 200 times faster than firefox ever will be.


yeah, Firefox is slow and a memory hog, but the tradeoff in speed is a small price to pay for the greatness that is adblock.
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: BlackDove on September 20, 2005, 11:41:09 am
FF for MEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: Sesquipedalian on September 20, 2005, 12:25:58 pm
Hm.  Well, I tried it.  It seems like a great browser, and I'd probably be happy to use it, except that the little scroll area of my trackpad doesn't work in Opera windows.  Oh well, Firefox does the job.
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: CP5670 on September 20, 2005, 12:34:28 pm
haha, I think I edited my first post in here once while the pirate filter was enabled, so it has stayed that way. :D
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: Martinus on September 20, 2005, 12:51:59 pm
[color=66ff00]If memory and speed are your priorities use links.

Firefox has a great interface, great extentions and is pretty foolproof security-wise.
[/color]
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: Descenterace on September 20, 2005, 12:54:28 pm
Right, will everyone stop whining about FF performance and memory issues?

<rant target="*">

I've got it on my machine. It starts faster than any other GUI app that is or has ever been on this computer. It uses far, far less memory than IE or Opera. And as long as it continues to render webpages faster than I can read them I couldn't care less.

However, the computers at work have Firefox too. On those systems (which are substantially faster and more memory-rich than my system) it takes a long time to load and to load pages. Why the difference? I don't know. I suspect it's because the network at work uses Domain-based security and logins, so user configuration info is stored on a central server (and on Windows, that's slow), but with all the complaints other people have about it that seems unlikely to be the problem.
It could possibly be the amount of junk people seem to install on Firefox (Adblock is the only necessary extension and the only one I've ever installed on my machine) but the systems at work have the exact same configuration as my own system.

So, the only conclusion I can come to is this: Firefox runs slowly on some computers. I don't know why. It just does. On others it runs fine.
So quit saying Opera's faster/more efficient than Firefox. On some computers, maybe, but I know from experience that it isn't on all computers.

I've tried Opera. I didn't like it because of the amount of junk it comes with by default (which I would have to spend time disabling twice a year, when I clean out/upgrade my system). I don't want a combined email client, web browser, IRC client, newsreader and shoe-polisher. I want a GODSDAMNED WEB BROWSER AND NOTHING MORE.

Opera is an example of what's wrong with application software today: feature creep. They've always got to add one more function.
Do one thing, and do it well.
And if Firefox doesn't work well on your machine, fine. No one's forcing you to use it. Just don't assume that your computer is The One True Computer.

</rant>
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: Sandwich on September 20, 2005, 01:17:51 pm
You know, I think that the price was the ONLY reason that kept me from recommending Opera to people. Now that it's free, I have no particular dedicated loyalty to Firefox that will prevent me from recommending Opera alongside it.
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: Grey Wolf on September 20, 2005, 02:25:37 pm
Eh. The old one wasn't bad, but this one annoys me.

I still wish K-Ninja worked better.
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: Nuclear1 on September 20, 2005, 03:35:02 pm
Good things come to those who wait... :D

*follows link*
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: MicroPsycho on September 20, 2005, 04:20:28 pm
I tried Opera a few weeks ago when they gave away the free keys, it's to flashy, ugly and I hates it. FF FTW.
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: Annorax on September 20, 2005, 04:41:34 pm
Quote
Originally posted by MicroPsycho
I tried Opera a few weeks ago when they gave away the free keys, it's to flashy, ugly and I hates it. FF FTW.


Skins are your friends...
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: Kamikaze on September 20, 2005, 05:58:33 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Descenterace

Opera is an example of what's wrong with application software today: feature creep. They've always got to add one more function.
Do one thing, and do it well.
And if Firefox doesn't work well on your machine, fine. No one's forcing you to use it. Just don't assume that your computer is The One True Computer.
 


Yet the Opera download is more than 2 times smaller than the Firefox download. Firefox is a 8.2MB download, Opera is 3.7MB. I'm not sure you can claim Opera is bloated, as with all its features (which are useful to some people) it's still smaller than Firefox.
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: BlackDove on September 20, 2005, 06:00:25 pm
WOW

THE DIFFERENCE IN MEGABYES IS STAGGERING

OPERA ALL THE WAY!!!!!!!!





































Not.
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: Grey Wolf on September 20, 2005, 07:44:34 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kamikaze


Yet the Opera download is more than 2 times smaller than the Firefox download. Firefox is a 8.2MB download, Opera is 3.7MB. I'm not sure you can claim Opera is bloated, as with all its features (which are useful to some people) it's still smaller than Firefox.
You fail to read properly:
Quote
Free Download
Firefox 1.0.6 for Windows, English (4.7MB)

1.5 Beta 1 clocks in at 4.93MB. The only ones that are twice as big as Opera are the Mozilla Suite (~12MB) and Sea Monkey (same).
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: mikhael on September 20, 2005, 08:53:58 pm
Um. Why are we arguing? Use Opera if you like it. Use Firefox if you like it.

But for Steak's sake, don't use IE for anything except testing your own website.
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: Grey Wolf on September 20, 2005, 08:56:19 pm
Windows Update.
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: mikhael on September 20, 2005, 08:58:46 pm
Automatic Update is your friend. Let it download the updates for you, then choose what to install.
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: BlackDove on September 20, 2005, 09:26:25 pm
Choosing to install IE updates is useless though, because you shouldn't be using it in the first place.

Opinion anyway.
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: Kamikaze on September 20, 2005, 10:16:18 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Grey Wolf
You fail to read properly:
 


No, I use a different OS.
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: Grey Wolf on September 20, 2005, 10:23:52 pm
The Linux version is much bigger? Odd. Must be due to using the other rendering engine.
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: Fury on September 20, 2005, 11:26:01 pm
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
Automatic Update is your friend. Let it download the updates for you, then choose what to install.

Automatic Updates do not even try to download optional updates or software, only updates that are classified as important gets downloaded. So yeah, from time to time it's best  to check Windows or Microsoft Update for optional updates if you would like to install those.

You can use you favorite browser for whatever you like, but saying you should not use IE even for Windows or Microsoft Update is just silly.
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: CP5670 on September 21, 2005, 12:02:38 am
It's also just one more stupid thing running in the background. Also, there are occasionally patches that cause problems with something else but get downloaded anyway. I prefer to check out the update site myself every now and then and know exactly what I'm getting.

By the way, what's with the Firefox pimping banners in some people's forum images or signatures? I mean, if you know what the banner means and why FF is so great, you probably already have it (or Opera or whatever else; something besides IE), and if you don't the link is somewhat confusing on what exactly FF is.
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: Descenterace on September 21, 2005, 01:39:57 am
Quote
Originally posted by Kamikaze


Yet the Opera download is more than 2 times smaller than the Firefox download. Firefox is a 8.2MB download, Opera is 3.7MB. I'm not sure you can claim Opera is bloated, as with all its features (which are useful to some people) it's still smaller than Firefox.


Did I say anything about filesize? I was referring to the number of pointless 'features'. I don't give a damn how big the download is.
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: kode on September 21, 2005, 02:14:42 am
Quote
Originally posted by Descenterace


Did I say anything about filesize? I was referring to the number of pointless 'features'. I don't give a damn how big the download is.


so... what features are pointless, then? my opinion is that they're mostly useful. like the trash can and the mouse gestures. and the office they have in the city where I live.
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: Scuddie on September 21, 2005, 02:18:20 am
I still don't get why people are still slamming IE.  Sure it's got tons of exploits, but if you visit black sites, it's your own damn fault you get hijacked.  Also, IE by itself sucks, but put Maxthon on top of it and it's comparable to Firefox.  I have no reason to use Opera or Firefox, as I use Maxthon shell and don't visit black sites.  Simple as that.
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: Sandwich on September 21, 2005, 11:27:11 am
Quote
Originally posted by Scuddie
I still don't get why people are still slamming IE.  Sure it's got tons of exploits, but if you visit black sites, it's your own damn fault you get hijacked.  Also, IE by itself sucks, but put Maxthon on top of it and it's comparable to Firefox.  I have no reason to use Opera or Firefox, as I use Maxthon shell and don't visit black sites.  Simple as that.


You're obviously extremely uninformed (i.e. ignorant) about IE and the many varied reasons not to use it. I suggest that you either read up on IE and all its flaws, or just keep quiet on the issue. ;)

EDIT: To give you an idea of the reasons why IE sucks:

- Standards support is either extremely buggy (http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer.html) or simply missing
- Security issues go unpatched (http://secunia.com/product/11/) for long periods of time; when patches are finally issued, it isn't unheard of for them to be re-patched or pulled completely
- IE's featureset has remained largely the same since version 4.0, which shipped with Windows 98. Only 7 years out-dated. :rolleyes:
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: Scuddie on September 21, 2005, 01:26:55 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
- Standards support is either extremely buggy (http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer.html) or simply missing
True dat.  It's too bad you can say the same thing about every other browser as well, all of which have their different areas.

- Security issues go unpatched (http://secunia.com/product/11/) for long periods of time; when patches are finally issued, it isn't unheard of for them to be re-patched or pulled completely
I don't visit black sites.  I therefor don't give a rats ass about security updates;  And to no surprise, I never had a problem...  ever.

- IE's featureset has remained largely the same since version 4.0, which shipped with Windows 98. Only 7 years out-dated. :rolleyes:
Aye.  However, that is what shells are for.  I have a link for you.  Maxthon (http://www.maxthon.com/) gives all the major features of firefox without adding an extra memory footprint.
Anyway, until you know how to use IE (which most people apparently dont know how to do), I suggest YOU keep quiet on the matter :p.
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: deep_eyes on September 21, 2005, 02:06:49 pm
i think im too salty for carl.... and i thought shivans dont eat pork? puerto ricans are porky!
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: Scuddie on September 21, 2005, 02:10:28 pm
...What?!!
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: Descenterace on September 21, 2005, 02:25:51 pm
Quote
Originally posted by kode


so... what features are pointless, then? my opinion is that they're mostly useful. like the trash can and the mouse gestures. and the office they have in the city where I live.


Trash can? For what? I've got a 'delete' key but there's no obvious use for it when browsing, except to delete typed text.

You mentioned mouse gestures. An excellent example of a 'pointless feature' from my PoV. Maybe not from other people's, admittedly; I myself am rather too used to giving the machine (not person, not intelligence, machine) in front of me precise instructions that have no possibility of being misinterpreted.

Email is a totally separate protocol from HTTP. There is no reason at all to combine email with web browsing, except in that case of web-based email services which require nothing more than HTTP.
Newsreading: ditto.
IRC: Once again, IM services are a seperate protocol entirely and lumping them in with HTTP is just dumb. Besides, I don't use IRC.
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: SadisticSid on September 21, 2005, 03:27:04 pm
So Sandwich, when are we going to see an Opera button next to your Firefox one? :p

I'm also interested to learn exactly which of Opera's features are useless. Mouse gestures might be one, voice support another - but the first also encompasses things like being able to switch windows and move backwards and forwards without clicking on specific UI components and the second is an optional download anyway. Pretty much all the rest just give you (much) greater control over your browsing sessions. Also, doesn't FF's application suite have an email browser as well?
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: StratComm on September 21, 2005, 04:07:10 pm
Firefox is not an application suite.  Thunderbird, the e-mail client, is also by the Mozilla foundation and is considered a companion to Firefox, but it is always a seperate download.  It's Mozilla proper (now Seamonkey) that has the e-mail client and other stuff bundled up together.

As for gestures, I'll take my back/forward mouse buttons any time, thank you :p  I really think those two buttons will end up like the mouse wheel; once a neat extra feature, eventually totally standard.
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: General Freak on September 21, 2005, 04:10:17 pm
As of today? I thought Opera became free on its birthday, several weeks ago.
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: Grey Wolf on September 21, 2005, 05:34:47 pm
No, that was a one-shot deal.

Anyway, you don't need to click UI components to change tabs in Firefox. That's what Ctrl-Tab is for.
Title: Freebie alert
Post by: Sandwich on September 22, 2005, 02:21:02 am
Quote
Originally posted by Scuddie


[q]Originally posted by Sandwich
- Standards support is either extremely buggy (http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer.html) or simply missing
True dat.  It's too bad you can say the same thing about every other browser as well, all of which have their different areas.

Uhm, nooo.... Both Gecko-based browsers (Firefox, Mozilla Suite, Netscape) and Opera have excellent standards support, all the way up to CSS2. The IE engine claims to support CSS, but it doesn't even support CSS1 properly. Sure, the Gecko engine and Opera have their quirks here and there, but compared to IE... drop in an ocean, y'know? And that's something you CAN'T improve by wrapping the IE engine in a better application; I myself used NetCaptor (http://www.netcaptor.com/) for years - the inderlying engine is the same, buggy POS it's been for years.

- Security issues go unpatched (http://secunia.com/product/11/) for long periods of time; when patches are finally issued, it isn't unheard of for them to be re-patched or pulled completely
I don't visit black sites.  I therefor don't give a rats ass about security updates;  And to no surprise, I never had a problem...  ever.

I grant that - IF one knows how to browse properly, how not to impulsively click on whatever pops up - one can largely remain unharmed while browsing the web using IE. However, the % of the population that knows how to browse is such a manner (and I am one of them) is less than %1.

- IE's featureset has remained largely the same since version 4.0, which shipped with Windows 98. Only 7 years out-dated. :rolleyes:
Aye.  However, that is what shells are for.  I have a link for you.  Maxthon (http://www.maxthon.com/) gives all the major features of firefox without adding an extra memory footprint.


Good for you on this point - as I said above, I myself used a browser shell for IE for a long while.

[/q]

Anyway, until you know how to use IE (which most people apparently dont know how to do), I suggest YOU keep quiet on the matter :p.


Knowing browsers is part of my job. Don't presume that I don't know how to use something for a task just because I prefer to accomplish that task in a safer manner. If you know how to remain safe while still using IE, more power to ya. Just don't go around recommending IE to every Tom, Dick, and Harry; it's doubtful they're as knowledgeable as you in such matters.

Quote
Originally posted by SadisticSid
So Sandwich, when are we going to see an Opera button next to your Firefox one? :p


Considering I support both... how's this? Don't want to overload on buttons and stuff. ;)